Mike Pence protest NFL leaves game when he realizes it's Colts/49ers

[IMMensaMind 459]

My answer doesn't matter. I've stated upthread that I wish they'd have found a different way to protest. I just have to laugh at the 'boycott the NFL' types. I just can't imagine being so racist that a guy kneeling would make me give up something I really enjoy.

The Founding Fathers gave up their wealth for a greater purpose - and it wasn't racism.

 

Perhaps you should widen your mind to consider that the reaction of NFL fans and political types of all stripes has nothing to do with race. The color of the players is not anything other than an identifier of a specific ideology in these players, and is not central to the ideology itself.

[cbfalcon 824]

 

Do you honestly think it wouldn't be called racist by minorities if whites did it?

 

This will be a bit vague, but roll with me here for the sake of discussion. We have certain power structures in place, at our businesses, in our neighborhoods, and in society as a whole. Some are official power structures, then there are others that aren't official but are just as real.......I think most of us agree that we dislike actions we consider to be an abuse of power....and I think most of us agree that there are cases in which the same actions committed by someone not in power aren't that big of a deal.

 

Examples:

 

- At a company, we have a boss and a secretary. If the boss pressures the secretary to sleep with him, that's a problem. If the secretary tries to bang the boss, are any of us too upset?

 

- Male vs female is another typical power structure. So when a 25 year old guy sleeps with a 14 year old girl, we want him locked up. But if a 25 year old girl sleeps with a 14 year old boy, we have no real issue with it.

 

- If the biggest kid in school goes and punches the smallest kid in the face, we tell him to pick on someone his own size. But if the small kid punches the big bully, we say "They kid has got balls" and pat him on the back.

 

When it comes to race, I feel there is an unofficial power structure in place. And I judge the group in power much more harshly than I judge the smallest kid on the playground.

[wiffleball 4,645]

You keep saying this but i ask where?

Not in Detroit. Place was packed yesterday. PACKED!! where is this loss of gate $$??

Facts dont' matter anymore.

 

Most of those crowds that aren't at the games?

They're at the Trump inauguration.

NFL has lost almost a BiLLION season ticket holders dontcha know.

[IMMensaMind 459]

My answer doesn't matter. I've stated upthread that I wish they'd have found a different way to protest. I just have to laugh at the 'boycott the NFL' types. I just can't imagine being so racist that a guy kneeling would make me give up something I really enjoy.

If you answer doesn't matter, your statements don't either.

[Jesus Chrysler 29]

If you answer doesn't matter, your statements don't either.

They aren't meant for you, Blahblah

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

 

This will be a bit vague, but roll with me here for the sake of discussion. We have certain power structures in place, at our businesses, in our neighborhoods, and in society as a whole. Some are official power structures, then there are others that aren't official but are just as real.......I think most of us agree that we dislike actions we consider to be an abuse of power....and I think most of us agree that there are cases in which the same actions committed by someone not in power aren't that big of a deal.

 

Examples:

 

- At a company, we have a boss and a secretary. If the boss pressures the secretary to sleep with him, that's a problem. If the secretary tries to bang the boss, are any of us too upset?

 

- Male vs female is another typical power structure. So when a 25 year old guy sleeps with a 14 year old girl, we want him locked up. But if a 25 year old girl sleeps with a 14 year old boy, we have no real issue with it.

 

- If the biggest kid in school goes and punches the smallest kid in the face, we tell him to pick on someone his own size. But if the small kid punches the big bully, we say "They kid has got balls" and pat him on the back.

 

When it comes to race, I feel there is an unofficial power structure in place. And I judge the group in power much more harshly than I judge the smallest kid on the playground.

 

Sorry but wrong is wrong. Remaining silent to hypocrisy and illogical thinking only breeds more. Silence lends consent.

 

I call them on their hypocrisy as America only owes you a chance. The fact that they're millionaires disproves their oppression angle. They will point to their skill, hard work and ability as to why they overcame it but they're only proving my point.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/10/09/anti-trump-espn-host-calls-for-fans-to-boycott-nfl-advertisers.html

 

Now ESPN Jemele Hill is calling for boycotting Cowboy advertisers for Jerry saying he'd bench those that don't stand. This is a perfect example of not acting decisively. ESPN should have fired her for her white supremacist comment about Trump. Now she's putting the network in jeopardy by suggesting people boycott the NFL advertisers. NFL keeps that sh!tty network afloat.......

[supermike80 1,287]

 

Detroit..............I'd have to ask a septic company to take a head count in that sh!thole to see about attendance.

 

Numbers are down in general. Cities such as Detroit, Oakland, etc.......aren't going to see that much of a decline.

Yeah I knew you'd use that to say something bad about Detroit. Predictable. No gate affect here.When you say "down in general" what the fuq does that mean?

 

Are you including the LA Chargers attendance VS San Diego? Cause that doesn't count. Are you taking into consideration the lack of a good product?

 

I will say this again...THE PROTESTS HAVE HAD ZERO IMPACT ON THE NFL'S TV GATE AND ADVERTISING REVENUE. Your silly little protest is a fringe one. Most people just don't care that much. Stop believing you are more important than you are. Until you can definitively prove this little protest is the reason for lower attendance(if that's even true) and not due to a worsening product, then I refuse to believe it.

 

 

Just like African American's boycotting McDonalds for a $15/hr wage. It has no impact whatsoever. It's a silly protest. In fact, I am willing to bet your protest has the same attendance impact as those protesting the CTE issues.

[supermike80 1,287]

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/10/09/anti-trump-espn-host-calls-for-fans-to-boycott-nfl-advertisers.html

 

Now ESPN Jemele Hill is calling for boycotting Cowboy advertisers for Jerry saying he'd bench those that don't stand. This is a perfect example of not acting decisively. ESPN should have fired her for her white supremacist comment about Trump. Now she's putting the network in jeopardy by suggesting people boycott the NFL advertisers. NFL keeps that sh!tty network afloat.......

Now THIS I agree with...

Bad mouth the President all you want. But you are a fool if you go after Jerry Jones and the NFL is a big reason you have a check. That's like telling Pablo Escobar you hate Colombians.

[cbfalcon 824]

 

 

 

I call them on their hypocrisy as America only owes you a chance. The fact that they're millionaires disproves their oppression angle.

 

America owes people an equal chance. In this case, that means if a black guy and a white guy are equal in ever other way, they should get an equal chance. If one of them has even 1 more road black to overcome due to the color of his skin, then he isn't getting an equal chance.

 

As for the idea that someone's success proves that their entire race is treated with equality, that's just too incorrect to even bother debating against.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

 

 

Yeah I knew you'd use that to say something bad about Detroit. Predictable. No gate affect here.When you say "down in general" what the fuq does that mean?

Are you including the LA Chargers attendance VS San Diego? Cause that doesn't count. Are you taking into consideration the lack of a good product?

I will say this again...THE PROTESTS HAVE HAD ZERO IMPACT ON THE NFL'S TV GATE AND ADVERTISING REVENUE. Your silly little protest is a fringe one. Most people just don't care that much. Stop believing you are more important than you are. Until you can definitively prove this little protest is the reason for lower attendance(if that's even true) and not due to a worsening product, then I refuse to believe it.


Just like African American's boycotting McDonalds for a $15/hr wage. It has no impact whatsoever. It's a silly protest. In fact, I am willing to bet your protest has the same attendance impact as those protesting the CTE issues.

Refuse to believe it all you want. I guess the news agencies are in on this together.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nfl-national-anthem-protest-denting-ticket-sales/

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nfl-advertisers-nervous-amid-protests-ratings-dip-161454056.html

 

As for the idea that someone's success proves that their entire race is treated with equality, that's just too incorrect to even bother debating against.

Isn't that PRECISELY what White Privilege asserts? "You have a disproportional number of whites in management, CEOs, etc..."
That whites are the majority (highest %) is moot to them.

Why is the NBA overwhelmingly black (74%)? Why the NFL (67%)? Why don't whites (approx 76% of U.S. population) have the same chances as blacks in getting into the NBA/NFL? If we're going with equality and fairness, why aren't there fixed hiring percentages based on race percentages? It's clearly biased...............

When describing someone's success, at what point do you say "Well, it's skill, work ethic, etc....." then proceed to cry racism because someone isn't successful?

[IMMensaMind 459]

They aren't meant for you, Blahblah

You responded to my posts, ffs. For future reference, if I ask a question in a post and you respond, the expected action is to actually answer the question.

[IMMensaMind 459]

America owes people an equal chance. In this case, that means if a black guy and a white guy are equal in ever other way, they should get an equal chance. If one of them has even 1 more road black to overcome due to the color of his skin, then he isn't getting an equal chance.

How, pray tell, do you codify this Utopia? You have some sort of incredible mechanism to ensure that which you claim is necessary here in order to live up to this impressive standard you've set for society?

 

No you don't. It's impossible. You're requiring equal results. Equal opportunity means that you're not restricted in any way by law. Private individuals should be able to do what they wish, or that is an example of a suppression of a Constitutional right.

 

As for the idea that someone's success proves that their entire race is treated with equality, that's just too incorrect to even bother debating against.

Obviously, it isn't just a 'someone' ever being referenced.

 

If you use the proper definition of 'equal opportunity', you don't run into these impossible to attain standards.

[IMMensaMind 459]

America owes people an equal chance. In this case, that means if a black guy and a white guy are equal in ever other way, they should get an equal chance. If one of them has even 1 more road black to overcome due to the color of his skin, then he isn't getting an equal chance.

 

As for the idea that someone's success proves that their entire race is treated with equality, that's just too incorrect to even bother debating against.

One more point.

 

America...doesn't owe anything. America grants these things. That is an entirely different perspective, and critical due to its implications.

[IMMensaMind 459]

This will be a bit vague, but roll with me here for the sake of discussion. We have certain power structures in place, at our businesses, in our neighborhoods, and in society as a whole. Some are official power structures, then there are others that aren't official but are just as real.......I think most of us agree that we dislike actions we consider to be an abuse of power....and I think most of us agree that there are cases in which the same actions committed by someone not in power aren't that big of a deal.

 

Examples:

 

- At a company, we have a boss and a secretary. If the boss pressures the secretary to sleep with him, that's a problem. If the secretary tries to bang the boss, are any of us too upset?

 

- Male vs female is another typical power structure. So when a 25 year old guy sleeps with a 14 year old girl, we want him locked up. But if a 25 year old girl sleeps with a 14 year old boy, we have no real issue with it.

 

- If the biggest kid in school goes and punches the smallest kid in the face, we tell him to pick on someone his own size. But if the small kid punches the big bully, we say "They kid has got balls" and pat him on the back.

 

When it comes to race, I feel there is an unofficial power structure in place. And I judge the group in power much more harshly than I judge the smallest kid on the playground.

Filthy is challenging your premise, which is that 'white privilege' is real. That merely being white is a meal ticket.

 

It obviously isn't - that's our position - but it isn't yours. Your job is to argue effectively...but you're not.

 

Your analogies all fail because - in each of them - the premise already is established which is the boss and which is the employee. Which is the senior and which is the junior.

 

You aren't offering analogies which challenge the premise. You've offering only analogies in which the premise is already established.

[Mike Honcho 4,039]

One more point.

 

America...doesn't owe anything. America grants these things. That is an entirely different perspective, and critical due to its implications.

 

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,..

 

 

 

What country do you live in?

[IMMensaMind 459]

These players have as much legitimacy to their vague claim of 'white privilege' as I do protesting them for their athletic privilege.

 

This is to further the divide America strategy. How many more ways do leftists wish to separate the melting pot? Intellectual privilege? Looks? Height?

 

There are a million ways to divide and conquer.

[IMMensaMind 459]

What country do you live in?

How slowly do you need me to respond before you realize that what I wrote doesn't in any way contradict anything in your response?

[Mike Honcho 4,039]

How slowly do you need me to respond before you realize that what I wrote doesn't in any way contradict anything in your response?

 

Read the dictionary and learn what the word "Grant" means and what the word "endowed" mean, not the same, you are wrong.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

 

Read the dictionary and learn what the word "Grant" means and what the word "endowed" mean, not the same, you are wrong.

 

Your mom said I was Endowed but I took her (figuratively and literally) for Granted.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Read the dictionary and learn what the word "Grant" means and what the word "endowed" mean, not the same, you are wrong.

 

Uh...'endowed'...doesn't mean OWED. And nothing - and I mean nothing - in your post declares that America endowed a single thing.

 

Our Creator did.

 

And He didn't do it because he owed you a damned thing.

 

That's the best argument you've got? You chose to pick a fight with my statement. Do better.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Your mom said I was Endowed but I took her (figuratively and literally) for Granted.

HAHAHAH.

[Mike Honcho 4,039]

Uh...'endowed'...doesn't mean OWED. And nothing - and I mean nothing - in your post declares that America endowed a single thing.

 

Our Creator did.

 

And He didn't do it because he owed you a damned thing.

 

That's the best argument you've got? You chose to pick a fight with my statement. Do better.

 

You said America grants you those rights...they can't give you something you are born with...you are seriously dense. And with that I'm done, please carry on with your crying.

[Jesus Chrysler 29]

You responded to my posts, ffs. For future reference, if I ask a question in a post and you respond, the expected action is to actually answer the question.

You're not the boss of me

[IMMensaMind 459]

You said America grants you those rights...they can't give you something you are born with...you are seriously dense. And with that I'm done, please carry on with your crying.

Sounds like you're the one doing the crying, bubba.

 

 

I wasn't speaking of rights. I was speaking of what you're granted as a result of being a citizen of the US: opportunity.

 

It doesn't mean you're owed a thing.

[rholio 339]

Pence left to go to another scheduled event, and people actually think this wasn't a PR stunt? He was leaving regardless of any protest.

[cbfalcon 824]

Filthy is challenging your premise, which is that 'white privilege' is real. That merely being white is a meal ticket.

 

It obviously isn't - that's our position - but it isn't yours. Your job is to argue effectively...but you're not.

 

Your analogies all fail because - in each of them - the premise already is established which is the boss and which is the employee. Which is the senior and which is the junior.

 

You aren't offering analogies which challenge the premise. You've offering only analogies in which the premise is already established.

 

All of the relationships in my analogy are established in terms of power.

 

Boss vs secretary is obvious.....Bigger vs smaller is the most open to interpretation, but in the context of a punch it's pretty obvious.....Male vs female and white vs black are comparable in that those positions on the ladder were the actual law of the land when our parents were growing up. That's as established as it gets really.

[IMMensaMind 459]

All of the relationships in my analogy are established in terms of power.

 

Boss vs secretary is obvious.....Bigger vs smaller is the most open to interpretation, but in the context of a punch it's pretty obvious.....Male vs female and white vs black are comparable in that those positions on the ladder were the actual law of the land when our parents were growing up. That's as established as it gets really.

Did you not understand how I responded to you? I'm fully aware of the traits your analogies share. What I'm explaining is how that is not refuting what he said.

[cbfalcon 824]

Did you not understand how I responded to you? I'm fully aware of the traits your analogies share. What I'm explaining is how that is not refuting what he said.

 

A question was posed to me in regards to the double standard of a black power first not being nearly as big a deal as a white power salute. I explained why with analogies referencing power structure.

 

I feel that white privilege very much exists. Is it a meal ticket? Of course not. But it's an advantage. We can play semantics and word games all day, but that advantage is a privilege...... (Ignoring the athletic component of the analogy) I like the comparison to a 100m race. If you are white, you have a clean track ahead. If you are black, you have 10 hurdles that are each 33 inches tall. We can debate the number of hurdles and we can point out instances in which no advantage applies, but on average there is little doubt to the fact that advantages exist.

[wiffleball 4,645]

Pretty obvious Trump was just trying to deflect from the fact that a sitting respected member of Congress called the White House an Adult Day Care Center. Man, has that ever come close to happening in American history?

 

Preceded by saying that we're basically kept from World War 3 by Trump's advisors.

 

Wow. There's only so many dog whistles to distract from that.

 

Remember not too long ago when Americans were saying hey, the North Koreans are fine it's just their whack-job leader?

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Pence left to go to another scheduled event, and people actually think this wasn't a PR stunt? He was leaving regardless of any protest.

So why the outrage from the left?

 

Whooped again, Josey.....whooped em again.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

 

A question was posed to me in regards to the double standard of a black power first not being nearly as big a deal as a white power salute. I explained why with analogies referencing power structure.

 

I feel that white privilege very much exists. Is it a meal ticket? Of course not. But it's an advantage. We can play semantics and word games all day, but that advantage is a privilege...... (Ignoring the athletic component of the analogy) I like the comparison to a 100m race. If you are white, you have a clean track ahead. If you are black, you have 10 hurdles that are each 33 inches tall. We can debate the number of hurdles and we can point out instances in which no advantage applies, but on average there is little doubt to the fact that advantages exist.

What hurdles do whites face trying to be a wide receiver in NFL? Or safety? NBA star?

[IMMensaMind 459]

A question was posed to me in regards to the double standard of a black power first not being nearly as big a deal as a white power salute. I explained why with analogies referencing power structure.

 

He is arguing with you that such an advantage exists. You don't, then, simply say "yes it does; here's another example of a power imbalance".

 

I feel that white privilege very much exists.

That's obvious. He's trying to tell you he doesn't, because there are far greater advantages which absolutely dominate such an attempt to divide.

 

People have different talents. That's a FAR greater advantage.

 

Is it a meal ticket? Of course not. But it's an advantage. We can play semantics and word games all day, but that advantage is a privilege...... (Ignoring the athletic component of the analogy) I like the comparison to a 100m race. If you are white, you have a clean track ahead. If you are black, you have 10 hurdles that are each 33 inches tall. We can debate the number of hurdles and we can point out instances in which no advantage applies, but on average there is little doubt to the fact that advantages exist.

What would you rather be? White, of lower intelligence, or black, with supreme athleticism?

[IMMensaMind 459]

Pretty obvious Trump was just trying to deflect from the fact that a sitting respected member of Congress called the White House an Adult Day Care Center. Man, has that ever come close to happening in American history?

Would claiming you would acquire syphilis if you slept with the President's mistress count?

 

http://all-that-is-interesting.com/best-insults-history/2

 

In your zeal to lambast Trump for the idiocy of nobodies, you ignore much history.

 

Preceded by saying that we're basically kept from World War 3 by Trump's advisors.

Wow. There's only so many dog whistles to distract from that.

Remember not too long ago when Americans were saying hey, the North Koreans are fine it's just their whack-job leader?

I don't remember anyone ever saying that. In fact, President after President has mollycoddled the NK arseholes with billions of our hard-earned dollars.

 

Time to punch the little in the mouth.

[rholio 339]

So why the outrage from the left?

Whooped again, Josey.....whooped em again.

Probably because he's claiming he left because of the protest.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

 

He is arguing with you that such an advantage exists. You don't, then, simply say "yes it does; here's another example of a power imbalance".

 

 

That's obvious. He's trying to tell you he doesn't, because there are far greater advantages which absolutely dominate such an attempt to divide.

 

People have different talents. That's a FAR greater advantage.

 

 

What would you rather be? White, of lower intelligence, or black, with supreme athleticism?

Nailed it.

 

So he has to pick Newbie or Tiger Woods?

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Probably because he's claiming he left because of the protest.

Which, by your assertion is the only reason he was there. Handful of 49ers knelt/sat and gave him the stage to make points with his base AND military.

 

2020 will be slam dunk if they keep it up.

[cbfalcon 824]

He is arguing with you that such an advantage exists. You don't, then, simply say "yes it does; here's another example of a power imbalance".

 

 

 

 

You aren't understanding. Examples of power imbalances were not the point at all. My post was about behaviors and and our toleration of said behaviors being directly related to one's place on the scales of power.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

 

You aren't understanding. Examples of power imbalances were not the point at all. My post was about behaviors and and our toleration of said behaviors being directly related to one's place on the scales of power.

You come up with an answer to the hurdles whites face in certain sports?

[wiffleball 4,645]

Jesus, I made the mistake landing on the wrong Channel. Meaning, any f****** Channel right now. Systemic oppression? It's really hard to hear those words coming out of the mouth of a f****** multi-millionaire who gets paid for doing pretty much f*** all for a living.

 

And who's paying the salaries?

 

You know, when Mexicans took the day off to show America what it was like not to have their services I understood that. You want to talk about systemic oppression? It's got to be economic and it can't be self-imposed. If your biggest b**** is you have a hard time getting a cab sometimes and your movies are nominated for as many awards as other movies? You've got it pretty f****** good.