listen2me 23 1,544 Posted May 22, 2018 I think Eli no doubt gets in at some point not sure how long it will take. But doing a what if... What if he only had 1 SB and not 2. What does the % go to then? I would say he would be a lot closer to 50/50 fot vhances at thr HOF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,461 Posted May 22, 2018 Would agree with the post #281. Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted May 22, 2018 For his career, Eli's average season is... 335 for 556 (60.13%) / 3895 yards / 26 TD's / 17 Int's / 7.0 ypa / 84.04 passer rating In the playoffs, he's 8-4... 242 for 400 (60.50%) / 2815 yards / 18 TD's / 9 Int's / 7.04 ypa / 87.45 passer rating Joe Flacco... 339 for 550 (61.75%) / 3717 yards / 21 TD's / 14 Int's / 6.88 ypa / 84.08 passer rating In the playoffs, he's 10-5 253 for 447 (56.60%) / 3223 yards / 25 TD's / 10 TD's / 7.21 ypa / 88.60 passer rating Overall, the two are virtually the same. The only real difference is that Eli has 1 more Super Bowl. There isn't a single person who thinks Joe Flacco is a H.O.F. candidate. In fact, the Ravens are already replacing him (by drafting Jackson). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted May 22, 2018 Overall, the two are virtually the same. The only real difference is that Eli has 1 more Super Bowl. There isn't a single person who thinks Joe Flacco is a H.O.F. candidate. In fact, the Ravens are already replacing him (by drafting Jackson). Flacco (too) has a SB MVP...........but you're right, nobody outside of his mother thinks he's HOF bound. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,659 Posted May 22, 2018 Like I said, it takes more than rings to get in. The NFL community and Elis peers know he's a hall of famer, and that's what counts. He passes the all important eyeball test. Plus he's a tough SOB, and a great leader. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted May 22, 2018 Like I said, it takes more than rings to get in. The NFL community and Elis peers know he's a hall of famer, and that's what counts. He passes the all important eyeball test. Plus he's a tough SOB, and a great leader. How does that differ from Flacco? To my knowledge, it doesn't... and I repeat, no one thinks Flacco is even close to an H.O.F. candidate. Just to make sure we're all on the same page... I'm not saying there's no chance Eli gets in. I'm simply saying he doesn't deserve to be and that he shouldn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,659 Posted May 22, 2018 How does that differ from Flacco? To my knowledge, it doesn't... and I repeat, no one thinks Flacco is even close to an H.O.F. candidate. Flacco beat Kaepernick, barely, and always had a top defense and running game. . Eli beat Brady and rarely had a running game and some pretty crappy defenses, and some really good ones Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted May 22, 2018 Flacco beat Kaepernick, barely, and always had a top defense and running game. . Eli beat Brady and rarely had a running game and some pretty crappy defenses, and some really good ones Flacco beat Brady twice in the playoffs. It's the price you pay to be in the same conference. Eli beat Brady because of great defensive play, so it's not like Eli carried his team. In 2007, the Giants defense was 7th in yards against... but 17th in points. I'm willing to bet that Eli's 20 Int's that year played a part. In that Super Bowl, he completed 56% of his passes with 2 TD's and 1 Int. Not really a performance worth telling about. Yet, the Giants defense held the 19-0 Patriots to only 14... a feat that was never accomplished that season, until the Super Bowl. Eli did play a great game in the 2011 Super Bowl, I'm saying he never had great games, but let's not pretend that the Giants defense played no part in that. In the playoffs that year, they gave up 2, 20, 17. and 17 points, all games on the road or neutral site and caused 7 turnovers. That year, Eli did have a great year and playoffs. It was definitely his best performance. Had he had more seasons like that, then I'd agree he deserves to be in... but he only had 4 (total). To me, 4 great seasons and 12 "meh" seasons is not an H.O.F.'er. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 1,879 Posted May 22, 2018 Flacco beat Kaepernick, barely, and always had a top defense and running game. . Eli beat Brady and rarely had a running game and some pretty crappy defenses, and some really good ones Eli had nothimg to do with holdimg Brady to under 17 points twice. Simms beat Elway amd Hostetler beat Kelly? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,659 Posted May 22, 2018 Flacco beat Brady twice in the playoffs. It's the price you pay to be in the same conference. Eli beat Brady because of great defensive play, so it's not like Eli carried his team. In 2007, the Giants defense was 7th in yards against... but 17th in points. I'm willing to bet that Eli's 20 Int's that year played a part. In that Super Bowl, he completed 56% of his passes with 2 TD's and 1 Int. Not really a performance worth telling about. Yet, the Giants defense held the 19-0 Patriots to only 14... a feat that was never accomplished that season, until the Super Bowl. Eli did play a great game in the 2011 Super Bowl, I'm saying he never had great games, but let's not pretend that the Giants defense played no part in that. In the playoffs that year, they gave up 2, 20, 17. and 17 points, all games on the road or neutral site and caused 7 turnovers. That year, Eli did have a great year and playoffs. It was definitely his best performance. Had he had more seasons like that, then I'd agree he deserves to be in... but he only had 4 (total). To me, 4 great seasons and 12 "meh" seasons is not an H.O.F.'er. In 2011 the Giants had the 25th defense and the 32nd running game. Eli threw for almost 5k. He carried them to a title, maybe more than any one single player ever has. Made a star out of Victor Cruz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted May 22, 2018 In 2011 the Giants had the 25th defense and the 32nd running game. Eli threw for almost 5k. He carried them to a title, maybe more than any one single player ever has. Made a star out of Victor Cruz. Like I said, he had a great year. One year is not a career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,461 Posted May 22, 2018 For his career, Eli's average season is... 335 for 556 (60.13%) / 3895 yards / 26 TD's / 17 Int's / 7.0 ypa / 84.04 passer rating In the playoffs, he's 8-4... 242 for 400 (60.50%) / 2815 yards / 18 TD's / 9 Int's / 7.04 ypa / 87.45 passer rating Joe Flacco... 339 for 550 (61.75%) / 3717 yards / 21 TD's / 14 Int's / 6.88 ypa / 84.08 passer rating In the playoffs, he's 10-5 253 for 447 (56.60%) / 3223 yards / 25 TD's / 10 TD's / 7.21 ypa / 88.60 passer rating Overall, the two are virtually the same. The only real difference is that Eli has 1 more Super Bowl. There isn't a single person who thinks Joe Flacco is a H.O.F. candidate. In fact, the Ravens are already replacing him (by drafting Jackson). Great work. But how about the fact that Eli has thrown for over 4000 yards 6 times and passed for more then 25plus tds 7 times. And Flacco has passed for over 4000 yards once, and 25 plus tds twice. I don’t see the same Qb, and too me it’s not even close. Eli will make the HOF and should , Flacco won’t and shouldn’t. Thanks. I think you did a great job. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 988 Posted May 23, 2018 Great work. But how about the fact that Eli has thrown for over 4000 yards 6 times and passed for more then 25plus tds 7 times. And Flacco has passed for over 4000 yards once, and 25 plus tds twice. I don’t see the same Qb, and too me it’s not even close. Eli will make the HOF and should , Flacco won’t and shouldn’t. Thanks. I think you did a great job. Good post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 1,879 Posted May 23, 2018 Great work. But how about the fact that Eli has thrown for over 4000 yards 6 times and passed for more then 25plus tds 7 times. And Flacco has passed for over 4000 yards once, and 25 plus tds twice. I dont see the same Qb, and too me its not even close. Eli will make the HOF and should , Flacco wont and shouldnt. Thanks. I think you did a great job. Manning has 3691 yards average per season, Flacco 3578 yards average per season. Pretty much the same as stated earlier. About 6 yards per game difference. Manning has over 2000 more pass attempts than Flacco overall.. Manning has 7 years with more than 15 interceptions. Flacco has 1. Flacco has a better completion % over their careers. . And here is a big one: Manning's record as starting QB is 111-103. Flacco's is 92-62. By end of 2018 Manning will probably have a losing record for his career. Seriously. Just compare these guys with Drew Brees and you will see the difference between HOF and average guy. You were counting number of years over 4000, Drew Brees averaged over 4100 a year for his career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted May 23, 2018 Manning has 3691 yards average per year, Flacco 3578 yards average per year. Pretty similar. About 6 yards per game difference. Manning has more than 2000 more pass attempts than Flacco. Manning has 7 years with more than 15 interceptions. Flacco has 1. Flacco has a better completion % over their careers. . And here is a big one: Manning's record as starting QB is 111-103. Flacco's is 92-62. Manning is not as good as Flacco. Neither are HOF quality. Thanks, I was going to respond with something rather similar. Because you can make an argument in favor of Eli based on TD's and Yards, but an equal argument based on Int's (or lack there of), and Completion percentage, you end up with a 50/50 split argument. If you boil it down to passer rating, which takes into account all of these aspects, their numbers are virtually identical. The only difference between the two was that the Ravens weren't able to keep a better team around Flacco as the Giants were around Eli. Flacco still has a lot more years left than Eli. When all is said and done, Flacco can legitimately end up with a virtually identical resume to Eli... and neither should be in the H.O.F. Heck, their resume's are virtually identical now. The only difference is that the Eli has 2 rings and Flacco has one. Like I said, Flacco's career could last another 6 years and he could still get another ring. To which point, he still doesn't belong in the H.O.F. and will have the exact same resume as Eli, who doesn't belong in either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,659 Posted May 23, 2018 When Flacco puts his team on his back and carries them to another title you can start comparing the two. Heck, Flacco got carried to his only title. Let him do it once first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrokh 569 Posted May 23, 2018 I don't know if Eli "deserves" to get in the HOF and I find it largely irrelevant. What I do know is when Eli decides to hang it up he will almost certainly be in the top ten all-time in Passing Yards and Touchdowns, He will have two Super Bowl Rings with accompanying SBMVP's, He plays in the biggest Media Market in the world for one of the NFL's Marquee Franchises, and oh yeah, his last name is Manning. I don't care what Stats you cherry pick if you don't think he's getting in the HOF, please, please send me whatever your smoking, because its waaaaay better than what I got... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 1,879 Posted May 23, 2018 I don't know if Eli "deserves" to get in the HOF and I find it largely irrelevant. What I do know is when Eli decides to hang it up he will almost certainly be in the top ten all-time in Passing Yards and Touchdowns, He will have two Super Bowl Rings with accompanying SBMVP's, He plays in the biggest Media Market in the world for one of the NFL's Marquee Franchises, and oh yeah, his last name is Manning. I don't care what Stats you cherry pick if you don't think he's getting in the HOF, please, please send me whatever your smoking, because its waaaaay better than what I got... You mean like cherry picking passing yards and touchdowns and skipping all the other telling stats? That's what you want to focus on, that's fine along with the popularity of his family. He definitely has longevity over most other average QBs. He will probably end his career under .500 as a starting QB and a with a terrible completion %. When all is said and done, he could end up having the most regular season losses of all QBs in NFL history. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,461 Posted May 23, 2018 Manning has 3691 yards average per season, Flacco 3578 yards average per season. Pretty much the same as stated earlier. About 6 yards per game difference. Manning has over 2000 more pass attempts than Flacco overall.. Manning has 7 years with more than 15 interceptions. Flacco has 1. Flacco has a better completion % over their careers. . And here is a big one:Manning's record as starting QB is 111-103. Flacco's is 92-62. By end of 2018 Manning will probably have a losing record for his career. Seriously. Just compare these guys with Drew Brees and you will see the difference between HOF and average guy. You were counting number of years over 4000, Drew Brees averaged over 4100 a year for his career. Dont disageee. Brees is a for sure HOF Qb. Flacco is not. The agreement can be made against Eli, And for Eli. In the end I think he Eli should be voted in, and I think he will be. I know the number TB posted and he did a great job, but the fact remains Eli did have more yard seasons more seasons passing for over 25 plus tds, and voters and fans look at those thats also. I think he Eli diffently does deserve too make into the HOF. Flacco no way. Brees first year. Im glad we agree. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sirensong 111 Posted May 23, 2018 was talking to one of my bar regulars last night--a NYG fan--and he convinced me. direct quote: "yeah, eli has been more lucky than good, but it isn't the hall of skill or ability. it's the hall of being famous, and therefore eli is undeniably qualified.' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted May 23, 2018 When Flacco puts his team on his back and carries them to another title you can start comparing the two. Heck, Flacco got carried to his only title. Let him do it once first. You might want to re-visit the 2012 playoffs if you don't think Flacco carried his team to a title that year. The year where they ranked outside the top 10 in points (on defense), and outside the top 15 in yards against.... the year where Flacco was the only reason they won the 2nd playoff game and the Super Bowl. The year where in the post season he completed about 58% of his passes for over 1100 yards with 11 TD's 0 Int's, and over 9 ypa with a 117 passer rating. In a post-season where he beat both Peyton Manning (& the top 5 NFL defense), and Tom Brady (& a top 10 points against defense), on the road. If he doesn't get credit for carrying his team to a championship that year, then I don't see how you can say that Eli carried his team to a championship in any year. The funny thing is, the Ravens had a top 3 defense in the years prior to the Super Bowl year, but the year they won the Super Bowl, they weren't in even in the top 10. For the most part, "average" is what they were all year. Yet, Flacco put that team on his back and carried them through the playoffs to a championship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sirensong 111 Posted May 23, 2018 When Flacco puts his team on his back and carries them to another title you can start comparing the two. Heck, Flacco got carried to his only title. Let him do it once first. flacco's run was pretty much identical to eli's runs, except flacco's defense wasn't even remotely as good as eli's during the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted May 23, 2018 was talking to one of my bar regulars last night--a NYG fan--and he convinced me. direct quote: "yeah, eli has been more lucky than good, but it isn't the hall of skill or ability. it's the hall of being famous, and therefore eli is undeniably qualified.' Is it "earn" fame though? The answer is "NO". He's famous because of the city he plays in, his brother, and his father... not because of his accomplishments. The Hall of "Famous" is based on what you've accomplished, not who you are or where you played. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Simms 11 127 Posted May 23, 2018 Hes going to make it. Anybody denying that is a fool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redsrback 30 Posted May 23, 2018 You can make it about Eli and Peyton somewhat, but your an idiot for saying New York when it comes to Ohio. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 1,879 Posted May 23, 2018 Giants had no more than 17 points scored against them in the 2 super bowls that manning was in.. Flacco and the Ravens had 31 scored against them in the one super bowl and he led them to the win.. For all of those who love Eli's career passing stats in terms of yardage and TD's: Eli has 2815 post-season passing yards and 18 TDs total. Flacco has 3223 passing yards and 25 TDs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
minuteofdecay 5 Posted May 24, 2018 Here look at this comparison https://nflcomparisons.com/brett-favre-vs-eli-manning-comparison/ If you avg out eli to the same amount of games they look the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,461 Posted May 24, 2018 I don’t see where Flacco has been better in the years of late. Eli since 2008 the season Flacco started in the nfl, has 40301 yards and 262 tds. Flacco 35780 and 200 tds. Since 2013 that’s half way. Eli 20159 yards and 128 tds. Flacco as 18147 and 98 tds. Mmm I don’t see better. Eli will make and should be a HOF Qb. Flacco nope sorry. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 1,879 Posted May 24, 2018 Manning = Flacco. Neither should be in the HOF. Ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,461 Posted May 24, 2018 Glad we both agree that Flacco won’t make it into the HOF. But I’m sorry for you that you disagree about Eli. Eli should be and will be voted into the HOF. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sirensong 111 Posted May 24, 2018 Is it "earn" fame though? The answer is "NO". He's famous because of the city he plays in, his brother, and his father... not because of his accomplishments. The Hall of "Famous" is based on what you've accomplished, not who you are or where you played. he accomplished becoming famous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted May 24, 2018 he accomplished becoming famous. So did Tebow. Guess he'll be voted in soon too then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted May 24, 2018 I don’t see where Flacco has been better in the years of late. Eli since 2008 the season Flacco started in the nfl, has 40301 yards and 262 tds. Flacco 35780 and 200 tds. Since 2013 that’s half way. Eli 20159 yards and 128 tds. Flacco as 18147 and 98 tds. Mmm I don’t see better. Eli will make and should be a HOF Qb. Flacco nope sorry. Thanks. Going by that baseline, Andy Dalton is only 7 more average years away from the Hall of Fame. If he replicates his first 7 seasons, after 14 years, Andy Dalton will have a resume which shows 62.3% comp percentage, 51000 yards, 334 TD's, 186 Int's, 7.18 ypa and a passer rating of 88.71. He'll also have a record of 126 - 88. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,461 Posted May 24, 2018 Going by that baseline, Andy Dalton is only 7 more average years away from the Hall of Fame. If he replicates his first 7 seasons, after 14 years, Andy Dalton will have a resume which shows 62.3% comp percentage, 51000 yards, 334 TD's, 186 Int's, 7.18 ypa and a passer rating of 88.71. He'll also have a record of 126 - 88. How do you know he’s only 7 more avg seasons away from the HOF. What if his numbers improve, and what if he leads the Bengals too a Super Bowl title lol, I laugh when I think that. But what if he falters and his numbers go down. Let’s not assume in an attempt too make a point. Let’s just stick too the facts, and those facts are the stats that have taken place, not what ifsss. Let’s wait seven more season and talk about Dalton the. Thanks for the reply, appreciate your insite. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted May 25, 2018 How do you know he’s only 7 more avg seasons away from the HOF. What if his numbers improve, and what if he leads the Bengals too a Super Bowl title lol, I laugh when I think that. But what if he falters and his numbers go down. Let’s not assume in an attempt too make a point. Let’s just stick too the facts, and those facts are the stats that have taken place, not what ifsss. Let’s wait seven more season and talk about Dalton the. Thanks for the reply, appreciate your insite. Dalton's history IS facts, they're not made up. I'm simply setting up a scenery where an average QB, whom we all know is average, can compile a career similar to Eli's. Basically, you're only standard for a Hall of Fame worthy QB is an average QB who can stay healthy and compile a certain number of yards and touchdowns where his y/a, completion pct, and interception total is irrelevant. Yes, Eli won 2 super bowls, one to which he was carried to - make no mistake about that, but Flacco accomplished the same thing. Just that his name isn't "Manning", nor did be play in NY (Dallas, Pittsburgh, or Green Bay). The bottom line is, the only people who think that Eli "DESERVES" to be in the Hall of Fame are his family members, Giants fans, and people who think that Super Bowls are the only measure of greatness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,461 Posted May 25, 2018 Disagree. Im not a Gmen fan nor a manning family member, nor do I think just his two Super Bowls. I think his two Super Bowls should be taken into consideration, dont you think that the voters will? But I also look at 6 4000 plus passing yard seasons , plus 7 seasons passing for 25 plus tds. Those are the simple facts. Dalton for what ever reason you are now using too make a new case for yourself, his numbers too dare are fact, but you asked what iffss Like yourself I dont know how he will perform form this date forward, so for that reason he shouldnt be and example of what ifs. Hey thanks for the reply, Always a pleasure chatting with you. Flacco doesnt come close too thats many 4000 plus yard seasons nor 25 plus td seasons. And I think it was you that posted Jackson might even take his job real soon. Thanks. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,461 Posted May 25, 2018 I don’t see where Flacco has been better in the years of late. Eli since 2008 the season Flacco started in the nfl, has 40301 yards and 262 tds. Flacco 35780 and 200 tds. Since 2013 that’s half way. Eli 20159 yards and 128 tds. Flacco as 18147 and 98 tds. Mmm I don’t see better. Eli will make and should be a HOF Qb. Flacco nope sorry. Thanks. I woud take M Ryan over Flacco for the HOF, and Ryan as we both know as never won a super bowl. His number since 2008 the same season as the great J Flacco. 7 seasons of passing for over 4000 plus yards. 6 seasons of passing for 25 plus tds. 41797 passing yards and 260 tdss. Those number blow away Flacco, so if I was voted between Ryan and Flacco, Ryan wins hands down, and that’s with zero super bowl wins. Hey thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted May 25, 2018 Disagree. Im not a Gmen fan nor a manning family member, nor do I think just his two Super Bowls. I think his two Super Bowls should be taken into consideration, dont you think that the voters will? But I also look at 6 4000 plus passing yard seasons , plus 7 seasons passing for 25 plus tds. Those are the simple facts. Dalton for what ever reason you are now using too make a new case for yourself, his numbers too dare are fact, but you asked what iffss Like yourself I dont know how he will perform form this date forward, so for that reason he shouldnt be and example of what ifs. Hey thanks for the reply, Always a pleasure chatting with you. Flacco doesnt come close too thats many 4000 plus yard seasons nor 25 plus td seasons. And I think it was you that posted Jackson might even take his job real soon. Thanks. When you say "I think...", you're stating an opinion, not facts. Also, like I said, you're only putting yards and TD's into the evaluation process and completely ignoring wins, INT's, and comp %. I assure you, I'm NOT boasting Joe Flacco, and I never have - not even once. Joe Flacco is the definition of "mediocre" and "average"... and he's comparable to Eli, which is why Eli doesn't belong in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,117 Posted May 25, 2018 I woud take M Ryan over Flacco for the HOF, and Ryan as we both know as never won a super bowl. His number since 2008 the same season as the great J Flacco. 7 seasons of passing for over 4000 plus yards. 6 seasons of passing for 25 plus tds. 41797 passing yards and 260 tdss. Those number blow away Flacco, so if I was voted between Ryan and Flacco, Ryan wins hands down, and that’s with zero super bowl wins. Hey thanks. I don't disagree with this at all. Not one part of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 1,879 Posted May 25, 2018 Noone in the world is saying that Joe Flacco is a HOF candidate. They are just saying that Eli is not either because they have similar career stats. If you want to use passing yardage in a year and number of touchdowns in a year as how to measure a HOF QB, then let's compare Eli to Brees: Manning: 7 years over 4000 yards (including 3 or 4 that are under 4100 - so just barely over 4000) 7 years over 25 TDs (only 1 year higher than 30) 4 pro bowls Brees: 12 years over 4300 yards (5 of those over 5000) 12 years over 25 TDs (9 years over 30 and 2 over 40) 11 pro bowls There is the difference between HOF and not HOF. And there are many more stats that can be thrown out there about these two that will say the same. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites