Bust that you will not draft no matter what.

[TheUsualSuspect 207]

I’m not reading all of this non sense, I have a family and full time job.

TB is mostly right, supports with evidence.

Obviously both sides will pick their spots and post conveniently when it benefits them. 

Kirk Cousins is absolute trash. Has been in our fantasy world since 2017. Axe, it wasn’t last season, it was two years ago.

 

 

[AxeElf 787]

3 hours ago, TheUsualSuspect said:

Axe, it wasn’t last season, it was two years ago.

It was last season that Cousins supported two top 10 PPR WRs in Diggs and Thielen.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

12 hours ago, AxeElf said:

My bad, I thought your argument was that a bad QB, like Winston or Cousins, could NOT make 2-3 WRs fantasy relevant in 1 season.  I must have thought that because you said:

But I guess you said that rhetorically, knowing that the answer was 2018 when Cousins made both Diggs and Thielen top 10 WRs, and that your argument was that a bad QB, like Winston or Cousins, COULD in fact make 2-3 WRs fantasy relevant in one season, because Cousins did it in 2018.  And since Cousins did it in 2018, Winston, who posts numbers similar to Cousins, could surely do it too.

I'm glad we're on the same page with that.

If by "poops on," you mean, "generally mirrors," then yes.

And I thought you said that extrapolating Winston's numbers strengthened your argument?  Now you're making it sound like Winston's extrapolated numbers are NOT essentially the same as Cousins'...?

I would say you need to pick a side and stick with it, but I'm not sure it even matters... I was just trying to put your statement about bad QBs and fantasy relevant WRs into perspective.  Whether you're arguing for it or against it is actually irrelevant; the bottom line is that it happens.  The last time it happened was with the Vikings in 2018, and it's happening now with the Buccaneers. 

How many times has Winston been to the playoffs?

Cousins was 1 win away from going to playoffs again last year. To say that their resumes mirror each other is nonsense.

 

Also I didn’t know I had to dish out math lessons on here but there’s a huge difference between 20 INTs and 10 INTs.

 

So the difference is Cousins has almost no chance of losing his job whereas Winston has already gotten 1 coach fired. He can be benched at any moment after a string of bad games.

[AxeElf 787]

1 minute ago, LoOnAtIk said:

To say that their resumes mirror each other is nonsense.

Except for being within 53 passing yards and 2 passing TDs of each other.

2 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Also I didn’t know I had to dish out math lessons on here but there’s a huge difference between 20 INTs and 10 INTs.

Not in the context of our conversation, i.e., supporting fantasy WRs.  It's maybe 10 fewer targets that a fantasy WR could have caught, but over the course of the season, it's not going to turn a top 10 WR into an also-ran.

[kcBlitzkrieg 17]

7 hours ago, TheUsualSuspect said:

I’m not reading all of this non sense, I have a family and full time job.

TB is mostly right, supports with evidence.

Obviously both sides will pick their spots and post conveniently when it benefits them. 

Kirk Cousins is absolute trash. Has been in our fantasy world since 2017. Axe, it wasn’t last season, it was two years ago.

 

 

[kcBlitzkrieg 17]

On 9/23/2019 at 2:09 PM, LoOnAtIk said:

Big difference is Lockett is dominating the target share for his team whereas Godwin is still playing 2nd fiddle to Mike Evans. That’s basically the point I tried to make all along where Godwin and Evans can put up monster weeks any given week, it will be hard to pinpoint who goes off each week (mouths to feed). I expect Lockett to be the more consistent option and that’s why I targeted him over Godwin. Call me lazy but thru 3 weeks you can’t call me wrong.

I know the comparison vs Lockett was already addressed but there is no “2nd fiddle” here as both Evans and Godwin are only separated by 1 target.... 

[tanatastic 2,061]

Just catching up here. Elf slapped you guys around in the last page in multiple arguments about Cousins and supporting 2 WRs and Winston as well. Quit while your only down some before you lose it all. 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

3 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Except for being within 53 passing yards and 2 passing TDs of each other.

Not in the context of our conversation, i.e., supporting fantasy WRs.  It's maybe 10 fewer targets that a fantasy WR could have caught, but over the course of the season, it's not going to turn a top 10 WR into an also-ran.

So what if Winston gets benched halfway thru the season? You expect the same fantasy production from the WRs?

 

5 wins last year and 5 wins the year before. Is that the goal in Tampa bay? 

[AxeElf 787]

1 minute ago, LoOnAtIk said:

So what if Winston gets benched halfway thru the season? You expect the same fantasy production from the WRs?

 

5 wins last year and 5 wins the year before. Is that the goal in Tampa bay? 

Do you think if you change the subject enough times everyone will forget that you were wrong about a bad QB being unable to support 2-3 fantasy relevant WRs?

[LoOnAtIk 75]

1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

Do you think if you change the subject enough times everyone will forget that you were wrong about a bad QB being unable to support 2-3 fantasy relevant WRs?

How is Cousins as bad as Winston? Don’t project or extrapolate anything.

 

You haven’t provided anything except for if winston numbers last season were extrapolated to 16 that he would have similar numbers but with twice the INTs which nullifies any similarity. For fantasy purposes it doesn’t mean anything until he gets benched because he sucks. 

 

I hate cousins and you have me here defending him vs Jameis Winston yikes.

[AxeElf 787]

2 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

How is Cousins as bad as Winston?

Scroll up.  It's been explained; you're just not listening.

2 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

You haven’t provided anything except for if winston numbers last season were extrapolated to 16 that he would have similar numbers...  Don’t project or extrapolate anything.

Ok, I guess if we can't extrapolate Winston's 11 games to 16 games, then we'll have to cut down Cousins' 16 games to 11.  Let's remove Weeks 2, 4, 8, 12, and 16.

That leaves us with...

Winston:  2,992 yards, 19 TDs

Cousins:  2,497 yards, 15 TDs

Cousins was clearly much worse than Winston in 2018, but he was able to support 2 top-10 WRs.

Case closed.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

Scroll up.  It's been explained; you're just not listening.

Ok, I guess if we can't extrapolate Winston's 11 games to 16 games, then we'll have to cut down Cousins' 16 games to 11.  Let's remove Weeks 2, 4, 8, 12, and 16.

That leaves us with...

Winston:  2,992 yards, 19 TDs

Cousins:  2,497 yards, 15 TDs

Cousins was clearly much worse than Winston in 2018, but he was able to support 2 top-10 WRs.

Case closed.

Lol I’m sure your techniques work well in a court of law too.

 

If only life worked that way where you can pick and choose the weeks to compare. I like that you made the effort to pick the weeks and do the math.

 

kudos to you axe elf, profesional math wizard and attorney of law.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

On 10/1/2019 at 11:24 AM, LoOnAtIk said:

Dude gimme a break you spent months trying to tell me he’s good and you said I don’t like him because of his character flaws. Gtfoh.

What the...?  Huh?  Give me one quote of mine where I said Winston was a good QB?  I said he'd put up good fantasy numbers.  But I never once said he was a good NFL QB.

 

In my very first post, I said this: "I think virtually everyone here has the same opinion as you about Winston being below average."  I did mention that he had 4 years of improvement, which, whether you like it or not, is true... as his comp% has gone up every year.  His y/a went down after year 1 then improved in year 3 and maintained consistent last year... both of which, were higher than his rookie season.  His TD% did go down from year 2 to 3, but was at his high last year.  In his first 3 years, his passer rating went up, last year it dropped a bit.   His INT% was at his highest last year.  So really, because of the suspension and lack of reps in the off-season, he started off slow.  He threw 10 INT's in his first 4 games.  That stat, you seem to be hung up on as the be-all-end-all "he's a bad QB"... even though you apparently ignore the fact that he threw only 4 INT's in the final 7 games of the season.  You apparently want to ignore the 13TD/4 INT, 64% comp, 100.1 passer rating, and 7.9 ypa that he amassed in those final 7 games.

 

Why do I bring that last part up again?  Because you said there was a likelihood that he could get benched.  So, let's look at his LAST 2 seasons shall we?  His last 24 games (22 starts).  64 comp %, 38 TD's, 25 INT's, 7.92 ypa, and 91.3 passer rating.  Extrapolate that over 16 games, and you have a season with 4331 yards, 25 TD's, and 17 Int's.  Want to garner a guess on what QB in the NFL last year who had comparable numbers?  Sorry, but I'm going to spoil it for you... Matt Stafford.  Is Matt Stafford close to being benched?  If not, why?  Do you know what his 16-game average is?   62.4% / 4375 yards (7.1 ypa) / 27 / 14 / 88.8

You're going to like this.  Here's Winston's...  61.6% / 4212 yards (7.6 ypa) / 26 / 17 / 88.3

So explain to me, why Matt Stafford isn't thought of as a QB who "might lose his job"?

 

To add to that... in Winston's 4 seasons (prior to this one), do you know how many times the Buccaneers ranked in the top 25 in both yards and pts for defense?  I'll help you out... it's 0 times.  That's right.  The Bucs' defense each of the last 4 seasons ranked in the both 7 in the NFL in either yards or points against.  I ask that because you mentioned that Winston has never made the playoffs.  Do you want to take a guess on how many QB's had their defense rank in the bottom 7 of the NFL in either points or yards against, and still made the playoffs?

Carr (2015), and Ryan (2016), Brady (2017), A. Smith (2017), & Mahomes (2018)

Funny thing about that list, 3 of them were the MVP that year... 4 of them had a top 5 offense and all 5 had a top 6 rushing offense.  In Winston's rookie season, the Bucs ranked 4th.  The last 3 years... 25th, 27th, & 28th.  So basically, unless you had an MVP caliber season or a top 6 offense, you're not going to make the playoffs with a defense that routinely is a bottom 7 every year.  I ask you, why do you hold Winston up to a standard that's virtually insurmountable?

 

As I've said in this very thread, there are reasons to knock Winston... I laid them out earlier (as I don't want to be known as someone who's saying Winston is a good QB).  With Arians, it's possible that he could end up being really good, but I digress... yet, you seem to always take the lazy route in order to bash him.  Other than you actually don't like him as a person, I have a hard time seeing any of your arguments against him.

[Matt Mueller 146]

I'm still wondering if Godwin is more 'boom bust' than Lockett who has target shares of 2, 12, 14, 4, 4 in 5 starts.  

[Matt Mueller 146]

If I'm drafting a QB for my team I would take Winston over Cousins despite his tendency to make boneheaded plays no question.  

[LoOnAtIk 75]

On 8/21/2019 at 10:52 AM, TBayXXXVII said:

Here's is why I say that your opinion, and virtually everyone else's opinion's on Winston are character based.  Compare Winston's stats to guys like Eli, Rivers, and Ben... guys who all are considered H.O.F.'ers by a lot of people.  Winston's progress isn't much different than either of them.  Sure, he throws more Int's than Rivers and Ben, but he throws less than Eli.

Matt Stafford was terrible last year but he’s locked into a huge contract. That’s the lions problem and it’s irrelevant to our discussion.

Winston is in a make or break season is he not a UFA after this season? If the Bucs keep losing games, specifically because of him, you think there’s 0 chance he gets benched?

You wanna play the semantics game but by comparing him to these guys above you’re trying to argue that Winston isn’t bad. Or in other words that he is good. Am I missing something?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

Comparing Winston to Eli. Holy shite. You read a lot of dumb stuff around here, but this is a doozy. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

4 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Matt Stafford was terrible last year but he’s locked into a huge contract. That’s the lions problem and it’s irrelevant to our discussion.

Winston is in a make or break season is he not a UFA after this season? If the Bucs keep losing games, specifically because of him, you think there’s 0 chance he gets benched?

You wanna play the semantics game but by comparing him to these guys above you’re trying to argue that Winston isn’t bad. Or in other words that he is good. Am I missing something?

Thus proving my point.  I compare Winston to another QB who's numbers are virtually identical, but you ignore it.

Yes, Winston is in his make or break season.  You will need to point to me a series of games where HE is THE reason they "keep losing".  Last year, the Bucs were 2-4 in their last 6 games.  Winston, in those games completed over 63% of his passes, had 11 TD's, 3 Int's, and over a 97 passer rating.  Are you going to tell me that HE was THE reason the Bucs won only 2 of those 6 games?

In his prior 3 starts last year, the Bucs were 1-2.  In his first game against Atlanta, the Bucs defense allowed the Falcons to score TD's on their first 3 possessions.  That was Winston's fault?  He had a good game that game.  Great?  No, but he played well.  He got them back in the game and pulled within a score in the final 4 minutes.  I guess on that final drive, Winston probably should've been out there on defense to help prevent the Falcons from getting multiple first downs and a FG that forced the Bucs to need a TD to win.  Even though... Winston drove the Bucs down to the Falcon 10(?), yard line with only a minute on the clock, that game was Winston's fault, right?

He had a pretty bad game against Cleveland.  They won that one though.  In that third game, he crapped the bed.  There's no excuse for that one.  So, in the 9 games that Winston started last year, I can say confidently, that Winston was THE reason the Bucs lost, only 1 time.  The year, in 4 games, he was THE reason, they lost one time.  So, 13 games, the Bucs are 5-8 and Winston cost them 2 of those.  In 2017, you're going to have a hard time listing a bunch of games where Winston was the reason they lost.  Sure, he's had bad games... Minnesota, Carolina, Detroit, and New Orleans (this one they won on a game winning TD drive).

Sure, Winston has had plays in games that he should have made.  He's made terrible plays.  He's cost his team points here and there and a game or 2 here and there, but overall, the last 2 seasons, the Bucs had the worst defense in the NFL.  Give me a list of QB's who has lead his team to the playoffs with the worst defense in the league.  If you do come up with any names, it'll probably include a list of MVP caliber/H.O.F. QB's.  So, as I said earlier, if you want to hold Winston to that standard, I think it's rather unfair.

The Bucs this year lost to the 49ers, and Winston played like crap, but in the last 3 games... all of which they should have won, Winston has been really good.  So I will re-iterate what I said earlier.  THERE IS A 0% CHANCE THAT WINSTON GETS BENCHED THIS SEASON.  Will he have bad games?  Yeah, most likely.  Will he cost his team a game or two?  Yeah, possibly.  Will he be THE REASON (if), they end up with a losing record?  HIGHLY unlikely.

Simply, what you've done is formulate an opinion of a player solely based on the number of interceptions he's thrown and assumed that the losses came because of them.  Well, someone who actually watches the games would know that's not the case.  Winston is an average QB who at times looks special and at times looks over matched.  He makes bad reads.  He makes bad decisions, but overall, he's not all that bad.  He's average.  Honestly, I won't be surprised if he gets a new deal done before the seasons end if his play continues over the next few weeks.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

3 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Comparing Winston to Eli. Holy shite. You read a lot of dumb stuff around here, but this is a doozy. 

What in that post was was wrong?  Winston's first 4 seasons are comparable to Eli's.  That's unassailable.

[jrokh 569]

13 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

What in that post was was wrong?  Winston's first 4 seasons are comparable to Eli's.  That's unassailable.

Through his first 4 seasons, Eli had a 4-2 playoff record including the 2007 Super Bowl MVP and ring. Jameis hasn't even played in a playoff game. They are not comparable, and that is unassailable...

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

4 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Through his first 4 seasons, Eli had a 4-2 playoff record including the 2007 Super Bowl MVP and ring. Jameis hasn't even played in a playoff game. They are not comparable, and that is unassailable...

That's a team accomplishment because the Giants have had better teams & coaching than Tampa.  I was specifically referring to the regular season.  From a statistical point of view, Eli's and Winston's numbers are rather identical.  In fact, Winston's numbers are actually slightly better.

[jrokh 569]

That's a silly talking point. QB's are measured by success above all else. Eli had it in his first four years, Jameis hasn't. If you want to keep the discussion strictly to fantasy value, then fine. Jameis has been as good and probably better in Fantasy. In reality, Jameis couldn't sniff Eli's Jock Strap. So qualify the comparison with FANTASY, but keep the real football discussion, to the REAL football players....

[LoOnAtIk 75]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

The Bucs this year lost to the 49ers, and Winston played like crap, but in the last 3 games... all of which they should have won, Winston has been really good.  So I will re-iterate what I said earlier.  THERE IS A 0% CHANCE THAT WINSTON GETS BENCHED THIS SEASON.  Will he have bad games?  Yeah, most likely.  Will he cost his team a game or two?  Yeah, possibly.  Will he be THE REASON (if), they end up with a losing record?  HIGHLY unlikely.

Simply, what you've done is formulate an opinion of a player solely based on the number of interceptions he's thrown and assumed that the losses came because of them.  Well, someone who actually watches the games would know that's not the case.  Winston is an average QB who at times looks special and at times looks over matched.  He makes bad reads.  He makes bad decisions, but overall, he's not all that bad.  He's average.  Honestly, I won't be surprised if he gets a new deal done before the seasons end if his play continues over the next few weeks.

They lost to the 49ers because of their defense and not Winston’s 2 pick 6s.

 

Now all of a sudden the excuse is the defense for them not winning games? It’s not like he does his defense any favors by staying on the field. 0% chance in bold emphasis. Noted.

19 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

To add to that... in Winston's 4 seasons (prior to this one), do you know how many times the Buccaneers ranked in the top 25 in both yards and pts for defense?  I'll help you out... it's 0 times.  That's right.  The Bucs' defense each of the last 4 seasons ranked in the both 7 in the NFL in either yards or points against.  I ask that because you mentioned that Winston has never made the playoffs.  Do you want to take a guess on how many QB's had their defense rank in the bottom 7 of the NFL in either points or yards against, and still made the playoffs?

Carr (2015), and Ryan (2016), Brady (2017), A. Smith (2017), & Mahomes (2018)

Funny thing about that list, 3 of them were the MVP that year... 4 of them had a top 5 offense and all 5 had a top 6 rushing offense.  In Winston's rookie season, the Bucs ranked 4th.  The last 3 years... 25th, 27th, & 28th.  So basically, unless you had an MVP caliber season or a top 6 offense, you're not going to make the playoffs with a defense that routinely is a bottom 7 every year.  I ask you, why do you hold Winston up to a standard that's virtually insurmountable?

Tbay for the length of this entire thread you pick and choose whatever stats you want to find to help support your argument. It’s just confirmation bias. This is a perfect example. A stat that compares him to Tom Brady, Derek Carr, and Alex Smith, all at the same time.

 

By finding a stat that brings up both Brady and Alex Smith, you’ve literally found nothing meaningful. You have 2 QBs on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum in both fantasy and real life. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

8 hours ago, jrokh said:

That's a silly talking point. QB's are measured by success above all else. Eli had it in his first four years, Jameis hasn't. If you want to keep the discussion strictly to fantasy value, then fine. Jameis has been as good and probably better in Fantasy. In reality, Jameis couldn't sniff Eli's Jock Strap. So qualify the comparison with FANTASY, but keep the real football discussion, to the REAL football players....

You are the one making it about real football, not me.  My point is, from a statistical point of view, they're numbers are similar.  Loonatik brought up that the Bucs didn't make the playoffs, that's why Winston stinks.  The post where I brought up Eli that he quoted is one that I made back in August comparing Winston's first 4 season to not just Eli, but other QB's, who had fairly similar numbers.  My point being, when you have 4 QB's with similar numbers, but only one of them has a losing record... logic would dictate that maybe the coaching and other personnel would be a big issue.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

7 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

They lost to the 49ers because of their defense and not Winston’s 2 pick 6s.

 

Now all of a sudden the excuse is the defense for them not winning games? It’s not like he does his defense any favors by staying on the field. 0% chance in bold emphasis. Noted.

Tbay for the length of this entire thread you pick and choose whatever stats you want to find to help support your argument. It’s just confirmation bias. This is a perfect example. A stat that compares him to Tom Brady, Derek Carr, and Alex Smith, all at the same time.

 

By finding a stat that brings up both Brady and Alex Smith, you’ve literally found nothing meaningful. You have 2 QBs on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum in both fantasy and real life. 

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Here let me help you.

 

Confirmation bias

In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias (or confirmatory bias) is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.

 

Courtesy of sciencedaily.com but I had already explained this in my previous post.

[Matt Mueller 146]

Whatever happened last year or whatever Winston has the 12th ranked QBR on the season.

Cousins is 31st.   Below 30 Luke Falk of the Jets 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

12 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You are the one making it about real football, not me.  My point is, from a statistical point of view, they're numbers are similar.  Loonatik brought up that the Bucs didn't make the playoffs, that's why Winston stinks.  The post where I brought up Eli that he quoted is one that I made back in August comparing Winston's first 4 season to not just Eli, but other QB's, who had fairly similar numbers.  My point being, when you have 4 QB's with similar numbers, but only one of them has a losing record... logic would dictate that maybe the coaching and other personnel would be a big issue.

So. If Eli and Winston are close statistically, never mind not taking into account the divisions they played in and other factors like weather and Winston always playing from behind, and Eli made the playoffs his first three years as a starter and won a Super Bowl and Winston has yet to sniff the playoffs, why are you saying they are similar? I know it's fashionable to pick on Eli, let's face it he put a whopin on a lot of prominent teams in big spots over the years, but try someone else for a comparison. This one is silly. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

5 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So. If Eli and Winston are close statistically, never mind not taking into account the divisions they played in and other factors like weather and Winston always playing from behind, and Eli made the playoffs his first three years as a starter and won a Super Bowl and Winston has yet to sniff the playoffs, why are you saying they are similar? I know it's fashionable to pick on Eli, let's face it he put a whopin on a lot of prominent teams in big spots over the years, but try someone else for a comparison. This one is silly. 

Look, you can say all you want about the post-season, but if you want to pretend that statistically speaking that Eli was better than Winston in their first 4 seasons, that's up to you.

 

To note, I didn't pick on Eli... you singled him out.  I also included other QB's in that statement as well.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

17 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Here let me help you.

 

Confirmation bias

In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias (or confirmatory bias) is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.

 

Courtesy of sciencedaily.com but I had already explained this in my previous post.

Dude, just take the "L".

[Matt Mueller 146]

Can we just lock this thread?

 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

I already conceded Godwin has not been a bust what more do you want? 

Guarantee you wouldn’t be posting anything if it was Godwin with the donuts instead of Evans. Winston still stinks he was outplayed by Bridgewater.

 

Garbage time TD to make the game closer than it was but again Winston stinks, 0% chance he gets benched all season according to Tbay.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

0.00%

By taking the "L", I meant on your comments about Winston.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

17 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

0.00%

By taking the "L", I meant on your comments about Winston.

The only person I’ve been wrong about is Godwin and I’ve conceded that. My reasoning was that Winston is a “below average” QB which you have fought tooth and nail to argue against, citing all sorts of stats for no reason. 

 

How would you evaluate Winston’s performance today?

[AxeElf 787]

33 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

How would you evaluate Winston’s performance today?

Acceptable.  Better than fair, not quite good.

17.46 fantasy points; 204 pass yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 13 rush yards, 0 lost fumbles.

[Matt Mueller 146]

NO D may be better than we are used to.  Shut down Dallas last week.  Tampa couldn’t get much going in first half 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

18 minutes ago, Matt Mueller said:

NO D may be better than we are used to.  Shut down Dallas last week.  Tampa couldn’t get much going in first half 

I agree they’ve been pretty stout especially since Brees went down. 

[Matt Mueller 146]

I have come to peace with everything here.

If your basic position was that Winston and Tampa may not be good enough to support a WR 1 level return on Evans and a WR 2 return on Godwin I buy it

I thought Evans would underwhelm for his ADP and Godwin would exceed.  Hence why my ‘bold prediction’ here for the year, which is really a week and meager one, was that Godwin would outscore Evans on the year.  They are close season long but the ride has def been smoother for one. 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

Acceptable.  Better than fair, not quite good.

17.46 fantasy points; 204 pass yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 13 rush yards, 0 lost fumbles.

73 yards and a TD on the final garbage time meaningless drive. So with 1 minute left in the game he was 10 of 26 for 131 yards and 1 TD and the loss basically confirmed. 

 

Our opinion might be different but that’s not good. Acceptable is pushing it.

 

 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

15 minutes ago, Matt Mueller said:

I have come to peace with everything here.

If your basic position was that Winston and Tampa may not be good enough to support a WR 1 level return on Evans and a WR 2 return on Godwin I buy it

I thought Evans would underwhelm for his ADP and Godwin would exceed.  Hence why my ‘bold prediction’ here for the year, which is really a week and meager one, was that Godwin would outscore Evans on the year.  They are close season long but the ride has def been smoother for one. 

Evans owners cannot be happy. Godwin owners rejoice. 

 

I purposely avoided just because I don’t believe in Winston to support 2 top wideouts. He’s kinda sorta proving me wrong but it’s not because Winston has played well.

 

I definitely concede Godwin has not been a bust at all. I should change my original post to Mike Evans lol.