where are the board's woke?

[Fnord 1,141]

2 hours ago, Fireballer said:

Evidently Ibrahim Kendi and Robin D'Angelo haven't infiltrated your employer or your kids school.  Lucky you.  Don't say you didn't know it was coming the day you're forced to abandon your neutrality and pick a side.

This is not a problem for me. I live in an area and work for an employer that puts a high value on diversity. I don't find either of them particularly threatening, based on what little I know about them.

[Utilit99 4,099]

7 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Here's how I see this playing out:

1. I list a number of things that I like about Biden's policy initiatives.

start calling me names and attempt to tell me that I'm wrong about all of them 

Well honestly, you haven't been right about anything you say on this site. So maybe others are just conditioned to not believe you when you say things. 

[Fireballer 2,382]

7 hours ago, Fnord said:

This is not a problem for me. I live in an area and work for an employer that puts a high value on diversity. I don't find either of them particularly threatening, based on what little I know about them.

LMAO...nice passive virtue signaling there.  What's your employer's and your area's policy on CRT?

[Fnord 1,141]

9 hours ago, Fireballer said:

LMAO...nice passive virtue signaling there.  What's your employer's and your area's policy on CRT?

Just because you consider that to be virtue signaling doesn't mean it is. Am I supposed to know what my area's policy on CRT is? I don't know and IDGAF. Why? I don't get riled up by all the scary stories of how the white man already is or is about to be the most oppressed gender/ethnicity in the US just because the talking heads/media you pay attention to are saying it. You're buying into a bunch of fear-mongering. 

[Voltaire 4,559]

12 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Just because you consider that to be virtue signaling doesn't mean it is. Am I supposed to know what my area's policy on CRT is? I don't know and IDGAF. Why? I don't get riled up by all the scary stories of how the white man already is or is about to be the most oppressed gender/ethnicity in the US just because the talking heads/media you pay attention to are saying it. You're buying into a bunch of fear-mongering. 

We're not buying into anything. It's you that refuse to notice that George Washinton statues are being torn down and replaced with George Floyd murals and all the 'white supremacy' lies that divide people.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

22 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

We're not buying into anything. It's you that refuse to notice that George Washinton statues are being torn down and replaced with George Floyd murals and all the 'white supremacy' lies that divide people.

Volty on point once again. Kudos. 

[Fnord 1,141]

12 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

We're not buying into anything. It's you that refuse to notice that George Washinton statues are being torn down and replaced with George Floyd murals and all the 'white supremacy' lies that divide people.

Little bit of hyperbole here. This is how I see it in a nutshell:

The inherent racism that was woven into the fabric of the United States since we declared independence is not gone. It has gotten much better, but that yarn is still part of the tapestry. It takes a long damn time to yank those racist and bigoted threads out. And when you do, there will inevitably be some changes made, or damage done, to the tapestry as a whole. People will be uncomfortable and angry. A lot of that inherent racism is completely unintentional, artifacts from a bygone area codified into the institution. It's no one's fault, but it's still present. And just because those of us that were born white males haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's not there. The quote is something like, "to those used to privilege, equality feels like oppression." I completely understand why most of you rail against that concept. I'm not privileged, I know what it's like to be poor, downtrodden, work hard for every single thing I get, climb the socio-economic ladder slowly. I sure as hell don't feel privileged. But I am. Sucks that I feel like I didn't reap any of the benefits of that privilege, but I do. I'm just starting to realize it.

Wasn't the country also founded on equality and justice for all? There's institutional racism remaining; aren't we obligated to try to snuff it out in order to achieve equality and justice? 

[Fireballer 2,382]

2 hours ago, Fnord said:

Little bit of hyperbole here. This is how I see it in a nutshell:

The inherent racism that was woven into the fabric of the United States since we declared independence is not gone. It has gotten much better, but that yarn is still part of the tapestry. It takes a long damn time to yank those racist and bigoted threads out. And when you do, there will inevitably be some changes made, or damage done, to the tapestry as a whole. People will be uncomfortable and angry. A lot of that inherent racism is completely unintentional, artifacts from a bygone area codified into the institution. It's no one's fault, but it's still present. And just because those of us that were born white males haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's not there. The quote is something like, "to those used to privilege, equality feels like oppression." I completely understand why most of you rail against that concept. I'm not privleged, I know what it's like to be poor, downtrodden, work hard for every single thing I get, climb the socio-economic ladder slowly. I sure as hell don't feel privileged. But I am. Sucks that I feel like I didn't reap any of the benefits of that privilege, but I do. I'm just starting to realize it.

Wasn't the country also founded on equality and justice for all? There's institutional racism remaining; aren't we obligated to try to snuff it out in order to achieve equality and justice? 

Thanks for the thoughtful answer...rare here.  I just don't buy that racism is still actually built into our institutions.  I get that red lining and the like were things back in the day. There were heinous things done to POC. But let's be honest, the actual codified laws that we have today are not racist. Any actual residual racism is still the actions of individuals.  I'm also curious what privilege you feel like you possess simply by the color of your skin. I've read numerous articles over the years about white privilege. Most of these lists of examples exist because of efforts to shoehorn race into almost every segment of our existence.  If anything, I believe class privilege exists and is cloaked as white privilege. Morgan Freeman said it best...just stop talking about it.  Basing the value or lack of value of people just because of skin remains to be absurd. 

[wiffleball 4,640]

It's pretty bad when you are your own Moon landing.

[Voltaire 4,559]

3 hours ago, Fnord said:

Little bit of hyperbole here. This is how I see it in a nutshell:

The inherent racism that was woven into the fabric of the United States since we declared independence is not gone. It has gotten much better, but that yarn is still part of the tapestry. It takes a long damn time to yank those racist and bigoted threads out. And when you do, there will inevitably be some changes made, or damage done, to the tapestry as a whole. People will be uncomfortable and angry. A lot of that inherent racism is completely unintentional, artifacts from a bygone area codified into the institution. It's no one's fault, but it's still present. And just because those of us that were born white males haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's not there. The quote is something like, "to those used to privilege, equality feels like oppression." I completely understand why most of you rail against that concept. I'm not privileged, I know what it's like to be poor, downtrodden, work hard for every single thing I get, climb the socio-economic ladder slowly. I sure as hell don't feel privileged. But I am. Sucks that I feel like I didn't reap any of the benefits of that privilege, but I do. I'm just starting to realize it.

Wasn't the country also founded on equality and justice for all? There's institutional racism remaining; aren't we obligated to try to snuff it out in order to achieve equality and justice? 

 

The USA was founded on liberty and freedom, not racism. And we've made significant progress over the 245 years since then to eliminate it. What you are saying is the exact opposite of what Freddrick Douglass (a man who actually had been a slave), Booker T. Washington, and Martin Luther King Jr. said about the USA. The last vestiges of any inherent racism had already been tossed out the window before most people here were born (in my case, 1971). There were maybe some leftover fumes in the air in the 70s. We have racists in this forum. What institutional power do they have? None. Do any racists have institutional power?

Listen, I oppose racism too. Fully. Let me help you pull out the remaining strands you talk about. I'm having trouble finding them. Show me what laws are racist against black people, show me the institutions with policies that discriminate against black people, show me where that is so that we can pull them out together. I can't find any None. Zero. It's a mirage.... unless were talking about affirmative action or "anti-racism." Oh, yes, yes. Not only are those very racist, they are found everywhere you look in every school, government institution, and corporation everywhere... but you don't acknowledge that and that's not what you are talking about. Blacks get scholarships on their skin color, lower admissions, and any black that graduates from college gets recruited heavily by companies who have quotas to meet. They get COVID vaccinations faster. A couple of sh*tbags were shot dead by police this week and nobody cared becaues they were white. Comically, Portland BLM did go out to protest one, but oopsie, once they heard he was white, they called it off and went home. Reality is, in fact, the 100% exact opposite to what you claim it is.

It's been over 55 years now since the last of the racist laws were overturned. White people are not responsible for 70% of black children born out of wedlock, for the high crime rates in black communities, for the low HS graduation rates. Look to a black culture that promotes gang activity and disdains going to school for that. I'm going out on a limb here, what i am about to say is almost mathematically impossible. Other than Filando Castile, every single cop/black suspect interaction that I am aware of that leads to death either involves the black suspect resisting arrest, or like today, as they were attempting to kill somebody. That's quite a limb to go out on, but seriously, if this is such an epidemic... can you come up with more than ...say...three? This 'problem', overblown such that it is, is 99% cureable if blacks don't resist arrest. Even including resisting arrest, the numbers of blacks shot by cops are tiny and in many cases, like the fat teen in Columbus today, entirely justified.

Also, I reaped jack-sh1t-zero benefits from my alleged white privilege. I have a white privilege card that is entirely unused and I’ll happily trade it for a fifty cent coupon from McDonalds.

[Fnord 1,141]

1 hour ago, Fireballer said:

Thanks for the thoughtful answer...rare here.  I just don't buy that racism is still actually built into our institutions.  I get that red lining and the like were things back in the day. There were heinous things done to POC. But let's be honest, the actual codified laws that we have today are not racist. Any actual residual racism is still the actions of individuals.  I'm also curious what privilege you feel like you possess simply by the color of your skin. I've read numerous articles over the years about white privilege. Most of these lists of examples exist because of efforts to shoehorn race into almost every segment of our existence.  If anything, I believe class privilege exists and is cloaked as white privilege. Morgan Freeman said it best...just stop talking about it.  Basing the value or lack of value of people just because of skin remains to be absurd. 

Lots of truth here, especially the last sentence. Thank you for the uncommonly thoughtful reply. I agree that class privilege is a huge problem as well, partly, but not fully, cloaked as white privilege. I also agree with Morgan Freeman, if we just stopped talking about it, that would (probably) make a difference. But we won't, for myriad reasons. Many, many of POC have been wronged in lots of ways over the years, and I don't blame them for not wanting to ignore those injustices, and being mad as hell about it.

As far as the privilege of the color of my skin, well, I can point to at least one good job I had that I wouldn't have had if I wasn't white. The owner of the company was a total racist, never would have let me run his operation if I wasn't white. But aside from that, all of my dealings with cops since my mid-20's have been really good. There were a couple of situations that I doubt highly would have been resolved so easily had I been black. I'm thinking specifically of an unfortunate traffic stop in Illinois about ten years ago...

And your claim that codified laws today are not racist is incorrect. This is also a good paper, if you want to spend the time to read it. A tidbit:

Quote

Structural racism is a complex, dynamic system of conferring social benefits on some groups and imposing burdens on others that results in segregation, poverty, and denial of opportunity for millions of people of color. It comprises cultural beliefs, historical legacies, and institutional policies within and among public and private organizations that interweave to create drastic racial disparities in life outcomes. Because structural racism operates invisibly, and is difficult to define succinctly except in abstract academic prose (like the preceding paragraph), the best way to convey a sense of what it is and how it functions is by concrete examples. Take the original exclusion of agricultural and domestic workers from eligibility for Social Security benefits in 1935. Because they could not collect old-age or unemployment benefits, field hands, sharecroppers, maids, and nannies - constituting the bulk of the black labor force in the New Deal South - were shut out from even the most modest opportunity that whites enjoyed for wealth accumulation and survival assistance in economic downturns.19 In this example, blacks were not explicitly excluded, but the proxy phrase 'agricultural and domestic workers' did the job effectively. Nor was this anomalous: African Americans were excluded implicitly or through administrative fiat from all major New Deal welfare programs, including the National Labor Relations Act, the Fair Labor Standards Act, the National Industrial Recovery Act, and the Agricultural Adjustment Act. 0 This exclusion of African Americans from the opportunities offered by New Deal programs originated in traditional racism: the determination of powerful southern Democrats in the Senate to preserve the racial order of the Jim Crow South. But once set in motion, the structure of exclusion and discrimination operated automatically. Coupled with other examples of mid-century discrimination, such as overtly racist Federal Housing Administration mandates for segregation, New Deal policies stunted black wealth accumulation at the same time that they created a cornucopia of opportunity for whites. Though the nation moved slowly away from Jim Crow, the structure endured, as powerful as ever, even if no longer deliberately racist. The most effective agent perpetuating that structure has been the Supreme Court's refusal to recognize it. Structural racism may be familiar to some lawyers by its other name, institutional racism, thanks largely to Ian Haney L6pez's path breaking exploration of the problem in 2000.21 Haney-Lopez described the "unexamined social practices or patterns [that] at once structure and give meaning to human interaction," analyzing the practices of California Superior Court judges in selecting grand jurors, which resulted in a near-total exclusion of Chicanos.2 He found that the "unconsidered repetition of cognitively familiar routines," the "routinized sequences of behavior," structured social institutions (here, grand jury proceedings).23 Haney-Lopez examined "racial institutions," those "understanding of race ... within a community" that enable individuals to understand and explain reality.24 These beliefs in turn reinforce a racial hierarchy of status resulting in "social domination" by a superordinate group (Anglos) over a subordinated group (Chicanos).5 Eight characteristics distinguish structural racism from 'its traditional Jim Crow predecessor:

* Structural racism is to be found in racially-disparate outcomes, not invidious intent.

* Structural racism ascribes race as a basis of social organization to groups through a process of "racialization." " White advantage is just as important an outcome as black subordination, if not more so.

* Structural racism is invisible and operates behind the illusion of colorblindness and neutrality.

* Structural racism is sustained by a model of society that recognizes only the individual, not the social group, as a victim of racial injustice. This individualist outlook refuses to acknowledge collective harm, group responsibility, or a right to collective redress.

* The effects of structural racism are interconnected across multiple social domains (housing, education, medical care, nutrition, etc.).

* Structural racism.is dynamic and cumulative. It replicates itself over time and adapts seamlessly to changing social conditions.

* Structural racism operates automatically and thus is perpetuated simply by doing nothing about it.

 

[Fnord 1,141]

1 hour ago, Voltaire said:

 

The USA was founded on liberty and freedom, not racism. And we've made significant progress over the 245 years since then to eliminate it. What you are saying is the exact opposite of what Freddrick Douglass (a man who actually had been a slave), Booker T. Washington, and Martin Luther King Jr. said about the USA. The last vestiges of any inherent racism had already been tossed out the window before most people here were born (in my case, 1971). There were maybe some leftover fumes in the air in the 70s. We have racists in this forum. What institutional power do they have? None. Do any racists have institutional power?

Listen, I oppose racism too. Fully. Let me help you pull out the remaining strands you talk about. I'm having trouble finding them. Show me what laws are racist against black people, show me the institutions with policies that discriminate against black people, show me where that is so that we can pull them out together. I can't find any None. Zero. It's a mirage.... unless were talking about affirmative action or "anti-racism." Oh, yes, yes. Not only are those very racist, they are found everywhere you look in every school, government institution, and corporation everywhere... but you don't acknowledge that and that's not what you are talking about. Blacks get scholarships on their skin color, lower admissions, and any black that graduates from college gets recruited heavily by companies who have quotas to meet. They get COVID vaccinations faster. A couple of sh*tbags were shot dead by police this week and nobody cared becaues they were white. Comically, Portland BLM did go out to protest one, but oopsie, once they heard he was white, they called it off and went home. Reality is, in fact, the 100% exact opposite to what you claim it is.

It's been over 55 years now since the last of the racist laws were overturned. White people are not responsible for 70% of black children born out of wedlock, for the high crime rates in black communities, for the low HS graduation rates. Look to a black culture that promotes gang activity and disdains going to school for that. I'm going out on a limb here, what i am about to say is almost mathematically impossible. Other than Filando Castile, every single cop/black suspect interaction that I am aware of that leads to death either involves the black suspect resisting arrest, or like today, as they were attempting to kill somebody. That's quite a limb to go out on, but seriously, if this is such an epidemic... can you come up with more than ...say...three? This 'problem', overblown such that it is, is 99% cureable if blacks don't resist arrest. Even including resisting arrest, the numbers of blacks shot by cops are tiny and in many cases, like the fat teen in Columbus today, entirely justified.

Also, I reaped jack-sh1t-zero benefits from my alleged white privilege. I have a white privilege card that is entirely unused and I’ll happily trade it for a fifty cent coupon from McDonalds.

See above post. It addresses some of your points.

The bolded is interesting. I mostly agree with you. My wife was once turned down for a spot in her grad school of choice, passed over for a minority with lesser credentials. That's BS. But there were a lot of underlying reasons for that that we likely aren't aware of, and it all worked out in the end. I work at a pretty "woke" company. I will absolutely guarantee you that while hiring minorities is absolutely encouraged, it is never at the expense of a more qualified white person. That is literally part of the training for hiring managers. And the covid vaccinations are because minority communities were hit harder by it. Makes sense, no?

And your last couple sentences, educate me. You live in China, right? Aren't they a pretty racist culture? Would you be able to live the same way, with the same job and opportunities that you've had, if you were a black American?

[Voltaire 4,559]

28 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Lots of truth here, especially the last sentence. Thank you for the uncommonly thoughtful reply. I agree that class privilege is a huge problem as well, partly, but not fully, cloaked as white privilege. I also agree with Morgan Freeman, if we just stopped talking about it, that would (probably) make a difference. But we won't, for myriad reasons. Many, many of POC have been wronged in lots of ways over the years, and I don't blame them for not wanting to ignore those injustices, and being mad as hell about it.

As far as the privilege of the color of my skin, well, I can point to at least one good job I had that I wouldn't have had if I wasn't white. The owner of the company was a total racist, never would have let me run his operation if I wasn't white. But aside from that, all of my dealings with cops since my mid-20's have been really good. There were a couple of situations that I doubt highly would have been resolved so easily had I been black. I'm thinking specifically of an unfortunate traffic stop in Illinois about ten years ago...

And your claim that codified laws today are not racist is incorrect. This is also a good paper, if you want to spend the time to read it. A tidbit:

 

We all agree that 1935 had racist laws.... now we have to pretend to not know that those laws were repealed for 55 years ago....but still use them to claim that racism exists in 2021 because outcomes didn't work out.

During the height of segregation, 1965, Patrick Daniel Moynihan noted that in addition to the rampant racism that you mention, blacks shut out of jobs and segregation and such, yes. There was another crisis in the black community.... out of wedlock births were at 25%! Oh, my goodness. Maybe, now that the OOWB rate in the black community is 70%, maybe just maybe, the multitude of detrimental effects of that is what is holding back the black comminity stem from that, and black culture celebrating violence and fake police brutality, and discouraging education, and not from laws that haven't been on the books if 55 years.

[Voltaire 4,559]

32 minutes ago, Fnord said:

 

And your last couple sentences, educate me. You live in China, right? Aren't they a pretty racist culture? Would you be able to live the same way, with the same job and opportunities that you've had, if you were a black American?

Mea Culpa, You caught me. Yes. You're right. In fact I do have white privilege in China.They'd rather hire a German or Russian who learned English as a foreign language to teach English than a black American who grew up speaking it. And that's wholly unfair. I wasn't thinking in those terms, more before I got on the plane...but yes, you are correct, I won't be trading in my white privilege card for a McDonalds coupon in China. Offer still valid in the US though. Terms and conditions do not apply. See back of card for details.

[Voltaire 4,559]

30 minutes ago, Fnord said:

See above post. It addresses some of your points.

The bolded is interesting. I mostly agree with you. My wife was once turned down for a spot in her grad school of choice, passed over for a minority with lesser credentials. That's BS. But there were a lot of underlying reasons for that that we likely aren't aware of, and it all worked out in the end. I work at a pretty "woke" company. I will absolutely guarantee you that while hiring minorities is absolutely encouraged, it is never at the expense of a more qualified white person. That is literally part of the training for hiring managers. And the covid vaccinations are because minority communities were hit harder by it. Makes sense, no?

And your last couple sentences, educate me. You live in China, right? Aren't they a pretty racist culture? Would you be able to live the same way, with the same job and opportunities that you've had, if you were a black American?

Also thank you for the story on your wife. I appreciate that you could relate that and see the issues with it.

[Fireballer 2,382]

On 4/19/2021 at 5:00 PM, Fnord said:

That you continually think that far left zealots are calling the shots just proves the disconnect you and many on this board have with reality. 

A perfect example of far left zealots calling the shots. Governments and corporations are kowtowing to this crap. And it's increasing every day.  Not only are they promoting divisive and racist content, many of points in the 1619 Project has been thoroughly debunked.  And worst if all, people speaking out against it are being silenced by gov officials or pegged as white supremacists.  How very democratic of them. 

 

[Fnord 1,141]

The Ohio State Board of Education is calling the shots now? We can keep talking about this, happy to have a civil discussion,  but I think we're just going to disagree about how large the existential threat of critical race theory is. I simply don't see it that way. I'm willing to listen to your arguments, but an article about a lawsuit against a university isn't really moving my needle.

[Fireballer 2,382]

30 minutes ago, Fnord said:

The Ohio State Board of Education is calling the shots now? We can keep talking about this, happy to have a civil discussion,  but I think we're just going to disagree about how large the existential threat of critical race theory is. I simply don't see it that way. I'm willing to listen to your arguments, but an article about a lawsuit against a university isn't really moving my needle.

 

31 minutes ago, Fnord said:

The Ohio State Board of Education is calling the shots now? We can keep talking about this, happy to have a civil discussion,  but I think we're just going to disagree about how large the existential threat of critical race theory is. I simply don't see it that way. I'm willing to listen to your arguments, but an article about a lawsuit against a university isn't really moving my needle.

Not Ohio State University.  The Board of Education for the entire state of Ohio.  

[RLLD 3,455]

3 hours ago, Fireballer said:

A perfect example of far left zealots calling the shots. Governments and corporations are kowtowing to this crap. And it's increasing every day.  Not only are they promoting divisive and racist content, many of points in the 1619 Project has been thoroughly debunked.  And worst if all, people speaking out against it are being silenced by gov officials or pegged as white supremacists.  How very democratic of them. 

 

One cannot simply challenge the party......comrade

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

3 hours ago, Fireballer said:

A perfect example of far left zealots calling the shots. Governments and corporations are kowtowing to this crap. And it's increasing every day.  Not only are they promoting divisive and racist content, many of points in the 1619 Project has been thoroughly debunked.  And worst if all, people speaking out against it are being silenced by gov officials or pegged as white supremacists.  How very democratic of them. 

 

Look at the two of them up there. One has to changer her hair to something ridiculous and the other has to change his name. So much self hate and look at me going on. 

[Fnord 1,141]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:35 AM, Fireballer said:

 

Not Ohio State University.  The Board of Education for the entire state of Ohio.  

You're right, my bad for misreading. Still doesn't change my perspective on it.

[Fireballer 2,382]

10 hours ago, Fnord said:

You're right, my bad for misreading. Still doesn't change my perspective on it.

So the DOE for the entire state of Ohio silencing parents from criticism of their curriculum doesn't constitute "calling the shots"?  OK.

[cbfalcon 824]

On 4/15/2021 at 7:33 AM, tubby_mcgee said:

We've got woke folk here.

The ones that cry racism at every turn. 

CBFalcon is 100% woke.  There are more.

I cried racism once that I recall.

You just happen to remember it well because it was after you posted (because football players were kneeling) that we should round up every ni**ger in the country and hang them from a tree....or something alone those lines, with more cussing and anger. The post got deleted obviously. I felt it was racist.

 Hope you are better now though. 

 

[IGotWorms 3,315]

3 hours ago, cbfalcon said:

I cried racism once that I recall.

You just happen to remember it well because it was after you posted (because football players were kneeling) that we should round up every ni**ger in the country and hang them from a tree....or something alone those lines, with more cussing and anger. The post got deleted obviously. I felt it was racist.

 Hope you are better now though. 

 

Always quick to play the race card

[Fnord 1,141]

9 hours ago, Fireballer said:

So the DOE for the entire state of Ohio silencing parents from criticism of their curriculum doesn't constitute "calling the shots"?  OK.

Granted, that is more far reaching than just the OH St. Univ. board. But I'm still not feeling the existential threat that many here are.

[Fireballer 2,382]

3 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Granted, that is more far reaching than just the OH St. Univ. board. But I'm still not feeling the existential threat that many here are.

You and Hawkeye...as long as no body sh!ts directly on your front porch, it's not an issue.  

[Fnord 1,141]

23 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

You and Hawkeye...as long as no body sh!ts directly on your front porch, it's not an issue.  

And what exactly makes THIS such a righteous issue? The fact that it doesn't affect me personally has little or nothing to do with it. I'm not concerned with the screaming propaganda telling me that this whole thing is created to foster the idea that all white people are somehow racist. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

28 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

You and Hawkeye...as long as no body sh!ts directly on your front porch, it's not an issue.  

Exactly. I’d assume no kids, plays video games. 

[Fireballer 2,382]

4 minutes ago, Fnord said:

And what exactly makes THIS such a righteous issue? The fact that it doesn't affect me personally has little or nothing to do with it. I'm not concerned with the screaming propaganda telling me that this whole thing is created to foster the idea that all white people are somehow racist. 

Ok...let's not waste each other's time. If this doesn't bother you just reply with..."I'm OK with governmental agencies silencing dissenting opinions of tax payers". If you're in that place, we're just wasting time with posting. 

[Fnord 1,141]

58 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Ok...let's not waste each other's time. If this doesn't bother you just reply with..."I'm OK with governmental agencies silencing dissenting opinions of tax payers". If you're in that place, we're just wasting time with posting. 

That's not the place I'm in at all. I just haven't seen any compelling evidence from a person/entity that doesn't have a vested interest in making it sound like it's the end of the white man and "Libs are bad!" Like that ridiculous Prager video someone posted the other day. Pure hot garbage. Show me something real, I might even change my mind.

[Fireballer 2,382]

20 minutes ago, Fnord said:

making it sound like it's the end of the white man

Literally no one is saying this.  What everyone is doing is calling out the fake narrative passed off as the truth.  Its methodical and I can't help if you don't see it.  

[Fnord 1,141]

35 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Literally no one is saying this.  What everyone is doing is calling out the fake narrative passed off as the truth.  Its methodical and I can't help if you don't see it.  

OK. So no additional information then, just continued fearmongering? Cool. Then I agree, we're wasting our time. But it was a welcome respectful exchange, so thanks.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

6 minutes ago, Fnord said:

OK. So no additional information then, just continued fearmongering? Cool. Then I agree, we're wasting our time. But it was a welcome respectful exchange, so thanks.

Funny you don’t defend it. Why not? 

[Voltaire 4,559]

2 minutes ago, Fnord said:

That's not the place I'm in at all. I just haven't seen any compelling evidence from a person/entity that doesn't have a vested interest in making it sound like it's the end of the white man and "Libs are bad!" Like that ridiculous Prager video someone posted the other day. Pure hot garbage. Show me something real, I might even change my mind.

That's how I feel about 'systemic racism'. The difference is I have a mountain of evidence that woke is real and you have jack sh*t zero that 'systemic racism' is real.

Social Media giants such as YouTube/Twitter/Facebook censors that outright ban/ demonetize/algorithmically demote first Alex Jones, then other conspiracies, then racists, then fringe right wing commentators, then mainline conservative commentators to silence dissent.

They then turn to their Silicon Valley allies to undercut small upstart platforms like Parler or Gab, designed to circumvent their chokehold on the discussion.

Students tearing down statues and school districts painting over murals. Schools eliminating the names of Lincoln, Washington, and Jefferson from their buildings.

Scream 'racism' everywhere without showing a shred of evidence of 'racism' and calling everyone 'white supremacists' at the drop of a hat.

I'm not exactly losing sleep over Derek Chauvin, but it should be obvious that the man did not receive a fair trial and the political/media reaction to his case is a sign that jury intimidation is now laudable and legitimate and is poised to become an ever-present tactic going forward. 

They hype and media coverage surrounding each and every police shooting of a black person. Ma'kaila (sp?) Bryant's shooting this week was the most justified police shooting in the history of video recording, but they still riot and charge racism.

From campus graffiti to nooses in garages, each and every single instance of 'racism' on campus or in the workplace is never racism. 

They're re-writing history books to miscolor/lie. They p*ss on America and the founding, amplify race to 11 (in Spinal Tap parlance), 

 People are getting fired and losing their jobs. JK Rowling's books are boycotted, Gina Carono gets fired from Mandalorian for having the wrong opinion, twenty retailers won't carry Mike Lindell's pillows. The NYTimes bullies and squeezes out Adam Rubenstein and Bari Weiss, Mathew Yglasias the same at Vox. Glenn Greenwald left the Intercept, which he'd founded in the first place, because of censorship issues. Please read Bari Weiss' resignation letter:  https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

 Woke indoctrination in schools, here's a letter from an irate parent at a super-exclusive NYC school that went viral: https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/you-have-to-read-this-letter

And you don't see it because you are too invested in your own beliefs. Anyway, I gave you two links to Bari Weiss' resignation letter and the parent at the NYC school. I didn't want to flood you plus I don't want to do the extra work, but I can give you more.

 

[Fireballer 2,382]

5 minutes ago, Fnord said:

OK. So no additional information then, just continued fearmongering? Cool. Then I agree, we're wasting our time. But it was a welcome respectful exchange, so thanks.

How am I fearmongering?  There's literally a US state DOE silencing their constituency.  I guess we just disagree with where this will lead. I assume you think teaching the 1619 Project and CRT is isolated to Ohio.  But your really missing the point.  This isn't about race, it's about class and continuing to bloat the control of our government.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,646]

7 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

How am I fearmongering?  There's literally a US state DOE silencing their constituency.  I guess we just disagree with where this will lead. I assume you think teaching the 1619 Project and CRT is isolated to Ohio.  But your really missing the point.  This isn't about race, it's about class and continuing to bloat the control of our government.

It’s about race. 

[Fireballer 2,382]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s about race. 

It is in the way that racial issues are the route to a power shift. Every institution that can be painted as racist, must be "built back better" with tremendous top-down power and control.

[Fnord 1,141]

38 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

That's how I feel about 'systemic racism'. The difference is I have a mountain of evidence that woke is real and you have jack sh*t zero that 'systemic racism' is real. Man, there are mountains of evidence that systemic racism is real. You might not like it or agree with it, but there's plenty of it.

Social Media giants such as YouTube/Twitter/Facebook censors that outright ban/ demonetize/algorithmically demote first Alex Jones, then other conspiracies, then racists, then fringe right wing commentators, then mainline conservative commentators to silence dissent. You're talking about private companies. They have every right to police the content of their websites, like it or not. And you're not making a great point by singling out Alex Jones. The guy is a lying psychopath. And we have seen first-hand the damage that conspiracy-think can do when amplified.

They then turn to their Silicon Valley allies to undercut small upstart platforms like Parler or Gab, designed to circumvent their chokehold on the discussion. I would consider this more of an anti-trust issue than a free-speech issue, but I get where you're coming from.

Students tearing down statues and school districts painting over murals. Schools eliminating the names of Lincoln, Washington, and Jefferson from their buildings. Sorry, you're not  grabbing me with this. IDGAF. I get your argument that we're trying to undo history, and in many cases that can be undesirable, but society evolves, and sometimes we realize that we did really bad shlt in the past and we no longer want to celebrate it. Difference of opinion here.

Scream 'racism' everywhere without showing a shred of evidence of 'racism' and calling everyone 'white supremacists' at the drop of a hat. This isn't happening IRL. I get that many think it is, but this is where your information sources fail you. I see a lot of people in the media pounding on this, but on the "street" I don't. 

I'm not exactly losing sleep over Derek Chauvin, but it should be obvious that the man did not receive a fair trial and the political/media reaction to his case is a sign that jury intimidation is now laudable and legitimate and is poised to become an ever-present tactic going forward. Chauvin getting a fair trial was a concern. IMO he got one. Watters and Biden interjecting themselves into it was BS. Bad move by Biden especially. He or his handlers should know better. What else would you expect from Maxine, though? She's a horrible hack that feeds like a parasite off of this stuff.

They hype and media coverage surrounding each and every police shooting of a black person. Ma'kaila (sp?) Bryant's shooting this week was the most justified police shooting in the history of video recording, but they still riot and charge racism. Here's where we can find some common ground. The publicity given to some of these incidents certainly is a result of ratings and clickbait hyperbole.

From campus graffiti to nooses in garages, each and every single instance of 'racism' on campus or in the workplace is never racism. I call a giant BS on this. Complete hyperbole. Are you telling me racism is completely gone? Come on...

They're re-writing history books to miscolor/lie. They p*ss on America and the founding, amplify race to 11 (in Spinal Tap parlance), Acknowledging that this country has done some seriously horrible shlt in the course of its history is not pissing on America. It's self reflection. It's realizing that if we want to be better, we need to understand what we've done wrong and try to change.

 People are getting fired and losing their jobs. JK Rowling's books are boycotted, Gina Carono gets fired from Mandalorian for having the wrong opinion, twenty retailers won't carry Mike Lindell's pillows. The NYTimes bullies and squeezes out Adam Rubenstein and Bari Weiss, Mathew Yglasias the same at Vox. Glenn Greenwald left the Intercept, which he'd founded in the first place, because of censorship issues. Please read Bari Weiss' resignation letter:  https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter I've read her letter. While I do read the NYT, I'm not really familiar with her work there. I don't read much of the op-ed stuff. I'm a fan of Greenwald from way back before the Intercept. While I can't claim to have read him extensively, I have read quite a lot of his stuff over the years. Something with him changed when Trump came to power. I'm not sure what, but it did. And his work went downhill from there, IMO. "Cancel culture" is a double-edged sword. I think that being offended is part of the price you pay for having freedom of speech, and I'm not sure when it became a fate worse than death, but we're there now. I don't get offended real easily, and am very fond of the profane, so maybe I just can't understand. But the opposite side of the "freedom to offend" coin is the "freedom to call you out and make you pay for the vile shlt you do and say." Tough to have one without the other. I hate that people can have their lives ruined because they did or said something wrong in a heated moment, but I also don't like that some believe they should be able to spew horrible venom without consequence just because "freedom of speech."

 Woke indoctrination in schools, here's a letter from an irate parent at a super-exclusive NYC school that went viral: https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/you-have-to-read-this-letter There's a lot of opinion on the part of the writer here. Look, if CRT is going to be used as a bludgeon to inject race into every tiny little nook and cranny of society like many here are clearly believing, then I have a big problem with that. I don't have time to expound any further on this tonight, but if I get a chance I will.

And you don't see it because you are too invested in your own beliefs. Anyway, I gave you two links to Bari Weiss' resignation letter and the parent at the NYC school. I didn't want to flood you plus I don't want to do the extra work, but I can give you more.

 

 

[Voltaire 4,559]

@fnord Thanks for taking the time. As I've said before, but let me reiterate, I do think you're a quality poster, the most thoughtful one we have on the left, and so I have appreciated your presence here for the past year or so.

Regarding Glenn Greenwald, I'm on the floor at your ignorance. You couldn't have picked worse timing to say he has been 'going downhill' phase. Just two weeks ago, Greenwald's latest bombshell is that he uncovered one of the biggest judicial scandals in Brazil history such that just this month, his investigative reporting sprung the former president down there out of prison.  

 

Greenwald has been living down in Brazil since he married a legislator down there in the left wing opposition party. The MSM hates Greenwald, which is why you do too. They speak the corporate line, Greenwald started outside the MSM, he's always remained independent, always punches upwards (and they are the top) and he called out their lies. You don't recognize their lies because you only consume their content and you largely write off those of us that do (but to your credit you do engage my content, something worms or wiffleball sadly never do anymore)

He's not playing the corporate media games. He rose to prominence outside the MSM streams and so they could never stand him. It's not like he's ever become a right wing hack, he just calls a spade a spade.

 As for Brazil, I've been rather fond of Jair Bolsenaro over the past few years. From what I gather anyways, surface stuff, the goings on in Brazil is mostly off my radar. Meanwhile, Lola isn't my cup of tea. But Greenwald's springing Lola from prison is huge. He ought to be scoring major points in left wing circles for bringing this to light, but of course, no he isn't. Which is why you didn't know about this.

[Utilit99 4,099]

43 minutes ago, Fnord said:

That's how I feel about 'systemic racism'. The difference is I have a mountain of evidence that woke is real and you have jack sh*t zero that 'systemic racism' is real. Man, there are mountains of evidence that systemic racism is real. You might not like it or agree with it, but there's plenty of it.

So, since john Wayne Gacy was white, that means there is systemic white murder of children built into our systems around the US?

How can you pick a cop killing an unarmed black guy as representative of the whole system? 

If you want to be on the side of being correct with your statements, go attack the sickness that is represented in the teachers unions.