Ukraine - Doomsday

[listen2me 23 1,858]

17 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Russia's power ranking among the nine nuclear-armed countries dropped 3 spots. Could cost them the playoffs.

1) US

2) China

3) France

4) UK

5) Russia

6) Israel

7) India

8 ) Pakistan

9) North Korea

UK and France.  Lol.  I laughed out loud.  

[HellToupee 1,715]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Zelensky’s days are numbered.  

The Time Magazine/CIA story says it loud & clear. 

[seafoam1 2,929]

1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

The Time Magazine/CIA story says it loud & clear. 

The sooner the better that crook goes away. 

[HellToupee 1,715]

31 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Russia's power ranking among the nine nuclear-armed countries dropped 3 spots. Could cost them the playoffs.

1) US

2) China

3) France

4) UK

5) Russia

6) Israel

7) India

8 ) Pakistan

9) North Korea

India and unranked here South Korea would pimp slap UK & France

[seafoam1 2,929]

1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

India and unranked here South Korea would pimp slap UK & France

In the blink of an eye. 

[The Real timschochet 6,651]

Look this isn’t complicated. If we cut off aid to Ukraine they will lose the war. If they lose the war, Poland and the other border states of NATO will be threatened. Which means we will have to put more troops in to defend them, and spend more money. 
 

In other words, cutting off aid to Ukraine will actually cost us more money in the long run, and possibly American lives as well. Unless of course, you simply want that we should renege on our honor and obligations and abandon NATO altogether (many MAGA types seem to be in favor of this idea.) 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

6 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

The Time Magazine/CIA story says it loud & clear. 

You mean the one about how he has been betrayed by sh1tstains like you? https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-interview/

[IGotWorms 4,057]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Look this isn’t complicated. If we cut off aid to Ukraine they will lose the war. If they lose the war, Poland and the other border states of NATO will be threatened. Which means we will have to put more troops in to defend them, and spend more money. 
 

In other words, cutting off aid to Ukraine will actually cost us more money in the long run, and possibly American lives as well. Unless of course, you simply want that we should renege on our honor and obligations and abandon NATO altogether (many MAGA types seem to be in favor of this idea.) 

Yes, that is what they want, because it is what Putin wants

[listen2me 23 1,858]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Look this isn’t complicated. If we cut off aid to Ukraine they will lose the war. If they lose the war, Poland and the other border states of NATO will be threatened. Which means we will have to put more troops in to defend them, and spend more money. 
 

In other words, cutting off aid to Ukraine will actually cost us more money in the long run, and possibly American lives as well. Unless of course, you simply want that we should renege on our honor and obligations and abandon NATO altogether (many MAGA types seem to be in favor of this idea.) 

Ukraine isn't in NATO.  

What I would like to see is asking for these Euro countries to put in their fair share.  They have endless protection from us.  Then on top of it they just get to cheap out on this stuff.  It is a pathetic relationship we have here in Europe.  These European counties do nothing yet are awarded endless funds and protection.   

[thegeneral 3,121]

29 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Russia's power ranking among the nine nuclear-armed countries dropped 3 spots. Could cost them the playoffs.

1) US

2) China

3) France

4) UK

5) Russia

6) Israel

7) India

8 ) Pakistan

9) North Korea

US…China

Rest a bunch of ham and eggers whose uniforms barley match 

[thegeneral 3,121]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The NVA say different. Doh! 

Too soon!

[HellToupee 1,715]

4 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

You mean the one about how he has been betrayed by sh1tstains like you? https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-interview/

The Easter Bunny isn’t real GB

[seafoam1 2,929]

17 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

You mean the one about how he has been betrayed by sh1tstains like you? https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-interview/

[IGotWorms 4,057]

20 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Ukraine isn't in NATO.     

You should probably reread his post

[listen2me 23 1,858]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

You should probably reread his post

I did read it.  Oh if Ukraine is taken then it puts at risk Poland a NATO member.  

Um OK.   So what's thr point of being in NATO?  All you gotta be is close.  

If Russia attacks Poland we put troops on thr ground.  Therefore that isn't an option for Russia.  

[listen2me 23 1,858]

Talk to me about Obama and Crimea.  

What happens if Ukraine burns out and Russia advances then what?  More blank checks or we get directly involved?   Over a non NATO country?  

What's our end game?  Throw endless money at it and hope Ukraine stalls them after hundreds of thousands of men die?   That's best case?   Russia takes land....hundreds of thousands of men die.  And we are left with the bill?  

Sound.  

[GobbleDog 992]

31 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

cutting off aid to Ukraine will actually cost us more money in the long run, and possibly American lives as well.

Agreed.  Pay some now, or pay a lot more later. 

Kicking-the-can has proven a bad strategy throughout history.

[GobbleDog 992]

1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

What's our end game?  Throw endless money at it and hope Ukraine stalls them after hundreds of thousands of men die? 

I think that's the general idea. If that fails, Russia keeps Crimea and takes Donbas regions.

Might not fail. Could end in total regime change.

[listen2me 23 1,858]

"Russia has proven to be crap"

Other side of mouth

"Well if they advance through Ukraine then they are going to attack Poland"

 

[listen2me 23 1,858]

2 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

I think that's the general idea. If that fails, Russia keeps Crimea and takes Donbas regions.

Might not fail. Could end in total regime change.

Putin would drop nukes before he let's his power go.   Of course if someone assassinated him then sure.  

We don't know chess.  This crap probably could have been avoided with more talks and bargaining.   

This will get me a "you're for Russia"

But if Canada was say 5 different smaller countries and the Chinese/Russian NATO wanted to get all countries under their cloak and set up military bases on our border....we would have a big issue.

Fock Russia, Fock Ukraine.   

[HellToupee 1,715]

 

[seafoam1 2,929]

2 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

 

Biden does what he's told. 

[GobbleDog 992]

6 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Putin would drop nukes before he let's his power go.   Of course if someone assassinated him then sure.  

We don't know chess.  This crap probably could have been avoided with more talks and bargaining.   

This will get me a "you're for Russia"

But if Canada was say 5 different smaller countries and the Chinese/Russian NATO wanted to get all countries under their cloak and set up military bases on our border....we would have a big issue.

Putin would drop nukes, if that was the only way to hold power. If Ukraine advances to the gates of Moscow.... it gets nuclear.

If the forces pressuring Putin's power are internal, dropping nukes doesn't help. Actually hastens the regime's demise.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,275]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

Yes, that is what they want, because it is what Putin wants

So Ukraine is just the start? Putin is planning on rolling through Europe, or at least Eastern Europe? 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,275]

Woketards have spent their whole life being lied to about our wars. Every single one of them, and none can be considered a success. But they think it’s different this time. Damn Worms, what happened to you? I know TDS is real but this seems more like a brain injury. Do you ski? 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

1 hour ago, listen2me 23 said:

Talk to me about Obama and Crimea.  

What happens if Ukraine burns out and Russia advances then what?  More blank checks or we get directly involved?   Over a non NATO country?  

What's our end game?  Throw endless money at it and hope Ukraine stalls them after hundreds of thousands of men die?   That's best case?   Russia takes land....hundreds of thousands of men die.  And we are left with the bill?  

Sound.  

TBH, yes I think that probably is it.

Certainly not a great outcome.

But it wasn’t our doing— despite what the disgusting “blame America first” Putin-lovers may claim, it was Russia that forced this by taking Crimea and then invading the rest of Ukraine.

The other alternative is to just roll over and let Putin take Ukraine. At least what he’s already gotten but probably more too. Is that something you want??

[listen2me 23 1,858]

2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

TBH, yes I think that probably is it.

Certainly not a great outcome.

But it wasn’t our doing— despite what the disgusting “blame America first” Putin-lovers may claim, it was Russia that forced this by taking Crimea and then invading the rest of Ukraine.

The other alternative is to just roll over and let Putin take Ukraine. At least what he’s already gotten but probably more too. Is that something you want??

Well we can't turn back now.  I am saying this was all stupid and many in our government welcome this war, I would be willing to wager.  

Wall is too much senseless money.  But hundreds of billions to Ukraine, a chunk lost or stolen making someone's pockets fat....is all fair.   Must stop Putin in a proxy war.  Who cares, not our people, right?   

We could have done better as a nation trying to prevent this.  

Anyone is a Putin apologist who points out that if China/Russia set up a federation outlining our border setting up bases, we would take issue.  Big issue.   That's asinine.   It is a simple fact.  

[IGotWorms 4,057]

1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

Well we can't turn back now.  I am saying this was all stupid and many in our government welcome this war, I would be willing to wager.  

Wall is too much senseless money.  But hundreds of billions to Ukraine, a chunk lost or stolen making someone's pockets fat....is all fair.   Must stop Putin in a proxy war.  Who cares, not our people, right?   

We could have done better as a nation trying to prevent this.  

Anyone is a Putin apologist who points out that if China/Russia set up a federation outlining our border setting up bases, we would take issue.  Big issue.   That's asinine.   It is a simple fact.  

We didn’t have any military bases in Ukraine. And Putin has no right whatsoever to dictate their future or any other country’s but his own.

If you want to talk about what should’ve been done back in 2014, I’m all ears. Obama didn’t do sh1t, the whole world didn’t do sh1t. Putin paid no real price and that emboldened him.

But that’s also exactly why we can’t let him get away with this now

[League Champion 1,909]

 

[HellToupee 1,715]

[Hardcore troubadour 15,275]

10 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Messing with the money. And that’s what it’s all about.  

[listen2me 23 1,858]

Ukraine thread light traffic these days

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

4 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

Ukraine thread light traffic these days

Nothing much has changed over there. Ukraine's offensive has made some gains, and now you've got the rainy season followed by harsh winter.

Ukraine doesn't have enough to kick out Russia, and Russia doesn't have enough to gain back territory it had seized earlier.

I'm hoping the stalemate nature of all this gets the two sides to the negotiation table. 

The wording is a bit vague, but we did say in that 1994 agreement that we'd help Ukraine in the event that Russia attacked it.

There were U.S. sanctions after Russia took Crimea in 2014, so it's not like the Obama administration did nothing. It's not a fair comparison between that and Russia's full-scale invasion to take over the entire country.

Perhaps in between then and February 2022 NATO should have given Ukraine what it needed to kick Russia out of Crimea.

[League Champion 1,909]

22 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Nothing much has changed over there.

Welcome to the next 10 years 

[GobbleDog 992]

12 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Nothing much has changed over there. Ukraine's offensive has made some gains, and now you've got the rainy season followed by harsh winter.

Ukraine doesn't have enough to kick out Russia, and Russia doesn't have enough to gain back territory it had seized earlier.

I'm hoping the stalemate nature of all this gets the two sides to the negotiation table. 

The wording is a bit vague, but we did say in that 1994 agreement that we'd help Ukraine in the event that Russia attacked it.

There were U.S. sanctions after Russia took Crimea in 2014, so it's not like the Obama administration did nothing. It's not a fair comparison between that and Russia's full-scale invasion to take over the entire country.

Perhaps in between then and February 2022 NATO should have given Ukraine what it needed to kick Russia out of Crimea.

Ukraine's top commander recently admitted it's a stalemate. Zelensky was ticked, because supporters don't want to hear that. The General did say with more "next-gen warfare" they would break through. They should get F-16's by next Spring, so maybe that'll be a game changer.

As for Obama's sanctions following Crimea... I've heard numerous experts say they were toothless and Putin probably laughed. Supplying Syria with chemical weapons was a "red line" for Russia too. Guess what happened. Obama's foreign policy was bury-head-in-sand. Isolationism works great until ya finally have to face what ya could've easily dealt with decades prior.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,275]

Yeah. Nothing going on. Except some official that criticized Borat got blown up by a grenade in his office. 

[The Real timschochet 6,651]

It’s going to come to a head soon because there are enough Republicans in the House opposed to further aid to shut it down. I was hoping that wouldn’t be the case but I’m realistic enough to know that it is. 
 

If I was Biden I would pressure Zelensky to accept a face saving peace agreement while he still can. Because soon our aid is going to be cut off. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

2 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Ukraine's top commander recently admitted it's a stalemate. Zelensky was ticked, because supporters don't want to hear that. The General did say with more "next-gen warfare" they would break through. They should get F-16's by next Spring, so maybe that'll be a game changer.

As for Obama's sanctions following Crimea... I've heard numerous experts say they were toothless and Putin probably laughed. Supplying Syria with chemical weapons was a "red line" for Russia too. Guess what happened. Obama's foreign policy was bury-head-in-sand. Isolationism works great until ya finally have to face what ya could've easily dealt with decades prior.

Excellent points, sir.

Isn't a lot of the turf Russia still holds pro-Russian?

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

 

If I was Biden I would pressure Zelensky to accept a face saving peace agreement while he still can. Because soon our aid is going to be cut off. 

Yep, this is what needs to happen. 

[League Champion 1,909]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I was Biden I would pressure Zelensky to accept a face saving peace agreement while he still can

He better anyway. Soon they'll be nothing left to save. Russia is systematically destroying Ukraine. Putin can outlast Zelensky the Nazi