Failure of the public education system

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Why are the teachers unions against the “Don’t Say Gay” bill, as they call it, in Florida? The bill doesn’t even have the word gay in it. Anyone? 

Let me ask you this....if you were a teacher and thus against it, why would you be against it? Secondly, Why would you be for it?

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I don’t teach. This is my fifth union. One trade, fourth public sector. I worked in a public school before, but that was a contract job, non union. 

 

Ah....so you have no idea what happens in the teacher union meetings but you pretended multiple times like you did. So now you will say "I didn't say that. You aren't paying attention" because that is your tactic. This is like the 5th time I've tripped you up this week. You are losing it. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

6 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Let me ask you this....if you were a teacher and thus against it, why would you be against it? Secondly, Why would you be for it?

 

Ah....so you have no idea what happens in the teacher union meetings but you pretended multiple times like you did. So now you will say "I didn't say that. You aren't paying attention" because that is your tactic. This is like the 5th time I've tripped you up this week. You are losing it. 

When did I say that, or anything close? No need to look it up, just paraphrase. You won’t. You can’t. Just saying things. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

When did I say that, or anything close? No need to look it up, just paraphrase. You won’t. You can’t. Just saying things. 

You implied it multiple times. And you discounted what I know multiple times besides the fact that I've been sitting in on union meetings for a decade

Now answer my questions. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

9 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Let me ask you this....if you were a teacher and thus against it, why would you be against it? Secondly, Why would you be for it?

 

Ah....so you have no idea what happens in the teacher union meetings but you pretended multiple times like you did. So now you will say "I didn't say that. You aren't paying attention" because that is your tactic. This is like the 5th time I've tripped you up this week. You are losing it. 

And what the Fock are you taking about? When did I say I was a teacher? And why won’t you say why the teachers unions are against it? I don’t know. I’m asking you, a teacher. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

You implied it multiple times. And you discounted what I know multiple times besides the fact that I've been sitting in on union meetings for a decade

Now answer my questions. 

Implied what? That I’m a teacher? I said I am a new member in the teachers union. You think everyone in the teachers union is a teacher ? Where are you from, some bumfock town inthe sticks? 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

And what the Fock are you taking about? When did I say I was a teacher? And why won’t you say why the teachers unions are against it? I don’t know. I’m asking you, a teacher. 

I want to know what you think and why you would be for it as a teacher and likewise why you would be against it.

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Implied what? That I’m a teacher? I said I am a new member in the teachers union. You think everyone in the teachers union is a teacher ? Where are you from, some bumfock town inthe sticks? 

So you are a non teacher in the teacher's union? What do you do at the place you work? Are you support staff? If you are great for you that you can buy into the teacher's union but that is certainly not common. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

I want to know what you think and why you would be for it as a teacher and likewise why you would be against it.

Because it prohibits classroom instruction on matters of sexual identity and gender orientation for k-3. That’s why I’m for it. And why are you asking me if I were a teacher. I’m not, so what does that have to do with it? 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

4 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

So you are a non teacher in the teacher's union? What do you do at the place you work? Are you support staff? If you are great for you that you can buy into the teacher's union but that is certainly not common. 

It is in NY. I have no choice. It’s a union shop and that union is the NYSUT. You can go to their web site. It’s right there who they rep. Now say you’re sorry for accusing me of implying I am a teacher. I  did no such thing. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

It is in NY. I have no choice. It’s a union shop and that union is the NYSUT. 

Well see- you can't just try to unilaterally apply things because you experience them in New York. It isn't like that other places 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

Well see- you can't just try to unilaterally apply things because you experience them in New York. It isn't like that other places 

I didn’t say it was. I said what union I belonged to. That union reps more than teachers. It’s not my fault it says only teacher in its name. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Because it prohibits classroom instruction on matters of sexual identity and gender orientation for k-3. That’s why I’m for it. And why are you asking me if I were a teacher. I’m not, so what does that have to do with it? 

You think there are a lot of 1st grade teachers discussing sexual identity with the students? Kids who may not have full potential for reading and writing are getting in depth lessons about their sexual orientation? 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I didn’t say it was. I said what union I belonged to. That union reps more than teachers. It’s not my fault it says only teacher in its name. 

Yet you come here and try to say teacher's unions are doing this and that basically because of what you see in one area of the country. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

You think there are a lot of 1st grade teachers discussing sexual identity with the students? Kids who may not have full potential for reading and writing are getting in depth lessons about their sexual orientation? 

So they are prohibiting classroom instruction on the subject. If it doesn’t happen, why be against it? I’m thinking it happened or it was proposed. Florida is just cutting it off. So again, why are they against it? 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Yet you come here and try to say teacher's unions are doing this and that basically because of what you see in one area of the country. 

It’s in more than one area. I just quoted earlier what the mayor in DC said about masks. Randi Weingarten reps the whole country. I never claimed any inside information. It’s all out in the open. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s in more than one area. I just quoted earlier what the mayor in DC said about masks. Randi Weingarten reps the whole country. I never claimed any inside information. It’s all out in the open. 

Again- you love the composition logical fallacy. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

10 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So they are prohibiting classroom instruction on the subject. If it doesn’t happen, why be against it? I’m thinking it happened or it was proposed. Florida is just cutting it off. So again, why are they against it? 

I asked you- do you think a lot of 1st graders are doing deep lessons on their sexuality. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

10 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I asked you- do you think a lot of 1st graders are doing deep lessons on their sexuality. 

I don’t think a lot of things are prevalent. Doesn’t mean I don’t think they happen. I’m pretty sure something happened in Florida or was proposed. But that’s not what interests me. It’s the opposition to it that does, which you are currently dodging. Must be embarrassed. I would be if people in my profession opposed this. It’s understandable why you won’t comment. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

7 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I don’t think a lot of things are prevalent. Doesn’t mean I don’t think they happen. I’m pretty sure something happened in Florida or was proposed. But that’s not what interests me. It’s the opposition to it that does, which you are currently dodging. Must be embarrassed. I would be if people in my profession opposed this. It’s understandable why you won’t comment. 

Who said I wouldn't comment?

#1.) I have not seen anything spoken on this from a national level (at least not yet). Also, I am not seeking it out necessarily considering I don't teach in Florida but do recognize that this bill passing there will eventually lead to it going other places. Can't wait.

#2.) I think it is generally a waste of taxpayer money. I've never looked at the general guidelines of course curriculum in Florida but I highly highly doubt that there is a lot of sexual and gender instruction going on in like 1st grade.

#3.) Where I would imagine most concern comes from is the belief of how much further this bill could, and probably will, go. K-3 is the canary in the coal mine on this bill. And I think it is really a bad idea to try and start legislating gay kids once they get to high school. Furthermore language in the bill of "classroom instruction" and "age appropriate" is very vague and can be very widely approached. No one would like that. Furthermore, the bill started with them trying to make it so a teacher had to report to parents if a kid came out to them which is horrible. 

Also, it does seem like this bill is designed to just be a political attack and part of culture war politics which I just have zero patience for. Gay people exist, they always have, they always will, I'm not sure why we should try to hide that from K-3 but I also don't think we should necessarily be promoting that teaching to kids. 

[Fireballer 2,642]

45 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Who said I wouldn't comment?

#1.) I have not seen anything spoken on this from a national level (at least not yet). Also, I am not seeking it out necessarily considering I don't teach in Florida but do recognize that this bill passing there will eventually lead to it going other places. Can't wait.

#2.) I think it is generally a waste of taxpayer money. I've never looked at the general guidelines of course curriculum in Florida but I highly highly doubt that there is a lot of sexual and gender instruction going on in like 1st grade.

#3.) Where I would imagine most concern comes from is the belief of how much further this bill could, and probably will, go. K-3 is the canary in the coal mine on this bill. And I think it is really a bad idea to try and start legislating gay kids once they get to high school. Furthermore language in the bill of "classroom instruction" and "age appropriate" is very vague and can be very widely approached. No one would like that. Furthermore, the bill started with them trying to make it so a teacher had to report to parents if a kid came out to them which is horrible. 

Also, it does seem like this bill is designed to just be a political attack and part of culture war politics which I just have zero patience for. Gay people exist, they always have, they always will, I'm not sure why we should try to hide that from K-3 but I also don't think we should necessarily be promoting that teaching to kids. 

Alot to unwrap here.  I'll start with what the measuring stick is for parents to have earned the right to know if their K-3 student has "come out" to a teacher at school?  And how should the school handle that student from that point on?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

59 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Who said I wouldn't comment?

#1.) I have not seen anything spoken on this from a national level (at least not yet). Also, I am not seeking it out necessarily considering I don't teach in Florida but do recognize that this bill passing there will eventually lead to it going other places. Can't wait.

#2.) I think it is generally a waste of taxpayer money. I've never looked at the general guidelines of course curriculum in Florida but I highly highly doubt that there is a lot of sexual and gender instruction going on in like 1st grade.

#3.) Where I would imagine most concern comes from is the belief of how much further this bill could, and probably will, go. K-3 is the canary in the coal mine on this bill. And I think it is really a bad idea to try and start legislating gay kids once they get to high school. Furthermore language in the bill of "classroom instruction" and "age appropriate" is very vague and can be very widely approached. No one would like that. Furthermore, the bill started with them trying to make it so a teacher had to report to parents if a kid came out to them which is horrible. 

Also, it does seem like this bill is designed to just be a political attack and part of culture war politics which I just have zero patience for. Gay people exist, they always have, they always will, I'm not sure why we should try to hide that from K-3 but I also don't think we should necessarily be promoting that teaching to kids. 

Well, you have shown you are capable of having a decent conversation and provide food for thought.  More please. 

[Baker Boy 1,699]

20 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

I mean gas wasn't 2 dollars a gallon with Trump in office other than the first 2 months of the pandemic.

Also, Russia invading Ukraine was always going to jump prices regardless of who was president. 

 

 

Please outline what ideas you 100% know the teacher's unions are putting out there and getting through in schools. 

We never had $3 dollar gas under trump.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=emm_epm0_pte_nus_dpg&f=m

 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

4 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Alot to unwrap here.  I'll start with what the measuring stick is for parents to have earned the right to know if their K-3 student has "come out" to a teacher at school?  And how should the school handle that student from that point on?

Again- I doubt this is really a major issue of like a 1st grader coming out to a teacher.

So I'll speak from a high school experience since that is where I teach. I've had a few students come out to me over the decade that I've been in teaching- like 3. These are like 11th and 12th grade kids. In all the cases it was nothing I solicited or pried into but was rather like an assignment in class where the kids had to write a poem about themselves and they would write something and it developed a comfortability and went from there. Now what the bill in Florida was originally trying to do- but they did back away from for now- was make it that if a teacher has a student come out as gay to them the teacher has to report that to the parent. I'm not okay with that. There is a certain level of trust that a teacher develops with students and in some cases the reason students told me was because they were trying to figure out how to tell their parents and they were desperately concerned that their parents would not love them. I don't think me getting this information and immediately running to the parents is fair. What I do think is fine is what I do where I encourage the student to sit with the counselor at school and come up with a plan to tell their parents and encourage them that they need to let their parents know. Then in one case I sat in on the meeting, at the student's request, with the parents and counselor. 

I'm not gay, but I work with a handful of students who are part of the LGBTQIAA+ community. It doesn't matter if I don't get it. It doesn't matter if I do or don't agree with it. What matters is the students are affected by it and seeing the pain in their faces and their internal anguish..and seeing how the story has ended for some students who never confront it I just can't in good conscience sit idle. But I also don't think the parents should be completely divorced from the conversation. It's a fine line to walk- this bill doesn't walk it and really doesn't address any of it.

As to how a school should handle that student going forward.....the same way you would handle any kid. Parents have a right to know but that shouldn't be on my timetable or the schools or the states or the federal governments....it should be on the students

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

17 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

We never had $3 dollar gas under trump.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=emm_epm0_pte_nus_dpg&f=m

 

I agree. There are factors to that as well and very little of that has anything to do with Trump.

Obama was hurt in the back end of his first term by the after effects of the Recession and has demand went up again- the price went up. The average price of gas in his last two years was like 2.36 which was 70 cents below his 8 year average. Things leveled out. When Trump became president price jumped up 20 cents across his term but that was just Trump happening to be in office while supply and demand mostly stabilized. He shouldn't be blamed for that in any way. That 20 cent jump is even with the last year where the pandemic hit and demand plummeted. Right now we are still seeing market volatility as things get back to stabilizing but before they could we added a Russian aggression against Ukraine on top of it.

I know people want gas prices to be as simple as "This man bad, gas prices bad..." but it isn't. 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

23 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I agree. There are factors to that as well and very little of that has anything to do with Trump.

Obama was hurt in the back end of his first term by the after effects of the Recession and has demand went up again- the price went up. The average price of gas in his last two years was like 2.36 which was 70 cents below his 8 year average. Things leveled out. When Trump became president price jumped up 20 cents across his term but that was just Trump happening to be in office while supply and demand mostly stabilized. He shouldn't be blamed for that in any way. That 20 cent jump is even with the last year where the pandemic hit and demand plummeted. Right now we are still seeing market volatility as things get back to stabilizing but before they could we added a Russian aggression against Ukraine on top of it.

I know people want gas prices to be as simple as "This man bad, gas prices bad..." but it isn't. 

 

It’s not as simple as supply and demand either. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

49 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s not as simple as supply and demand either. 

I've pointed out many times....supply and demand, facilities still not operating at full operational capacity, some facilities still not operating at full employment capacity, Russia starting a war, oil companies using this opportunity to goose their pockets back up after a terrible 2020- and first half of 2021.

I get it- make money while you can...

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

35 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I've pointed out many times....supply and demand, facilities still not operating at full operational capacity, some facilities still not operating at full employment capacity, Russia starting a war, oil companies using this opportunity to goose their pockets back up after a terrible 2020- and first half of 2021.

I get it- make money while you can...

Investment in fossil fuels is drying up as well. And to me that’s the biggest factor long term. It ain’t so great short term either.  

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

34 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Investment in fossil fuels is drying up as well. And to me that’s the biggest factor long term. It ain’t so great short term either.  

https://cleanenergynews.ihsmarkit.com/research-analysis/fossil-fuel-investment-to-grow-in-2022-despite-netzero-risks.html

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

23 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

https://cleanenergynews.ihsmarkit.com/research-analysis/fossil-fuel-investment-to-grow-in-2022-despite-netzero-risks.html

Did you read that whole thing? I don’t think you did. It confirms what I have been saying. “ the us agreed along with 25 other countries to end public financing for unabated fossil fuel projects”. It also states there will be reduced  long term investing in fossil fuels across the spectrum.  2022. Great. Considering the financing was lower  during Covid due to less demand, which meant less drilling, it’s nothing to hang your hat on. And where is this oil being drilled for with the increase in investing? Nigeria? Venezuela? Texas? 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

26 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Did you read that whole thing? I don’t think you did. It confirms what I have been saying. “ the us agreed along with 25 other countries to end public financing for unabated fossil fuel projects”. It also states there will be reduced  long term investing in fossil fuels across the spectrum.  2022. Great. Considering the financing was lower  during Covid due to less demand, which meant less drilling, it’s nothing to hang your hat on. And where is this oil being drilled for with the increase in investing? Nigeria? Venezuela? Texas? 

I don't think you read it....but moreso I don't think you know what you are arguing at this point. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

4 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I don't think you read it....but moreso I don't think you know what you are arguing at this point. 

My “argument” is there is less investing in fossil fuels now and in the future and that is a huge factor in why we will remain dependent on foreign sources of oil until we have batteries that run everything on sunshine and wind. It’s right around the corner. You seem to think the lack of money going into the sector has no affect. I guess we are at a standstill. Good day. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

My “argument” is there is less investing in fossil fuels now and in the future and that is a huge factor in why we will remain dependent on foreign sources of oil until we have batteries that run everything on sunshine and wind. It’s right around the corner. You seem to think the lack of money going into the sector has no affect. I guess we are at a standstill. Good day. 

I think you are adding aspects to your argument that weren't there initially. 

I also think we should not sell as much of our oil overseas as we do

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

7 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I think you are adding aspects to your argument that weren't there initially. 

I also think we should not sell as much of our oil overseas as we do

You’re right Mooney. It’s always some inadequacy with whoever you’re dealing with that’s the problem. Again, good day. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

16 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You’re right Mooney. It’s always some inadequacy with whoever you’re dealing with that’s the problem. Again, good day. 

You  kept saying "divesting pensions from fossil fuels." I proved it wrong and you slunk away. Then you kept saying they aren't investing in fossil fuels and I showed that right now it is still the same and you shifted the goalposts.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

49 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

You  kept saying "divesting pensions from fossil fuels." I proved it wrong and you slunk away. Then you kept saying they aren't investing in fossil fuels and I showed that right now it is still the same and you shifted the goalposts.

You proved it wrong? 3 of the NYC pension funds have completely divested. That’s a fact. You proved you just take the first thing google provides you.  And you don’t bother to even read all of it. But thanks for that article. I forwarded it to one of my delusional liberal friends. 

[Baker Boy 1,699]

NYC pension funds to divest $4 billion from fossil fuels
 

https://apnews.com/article/new-york-us-news-bill-de-blasio-new-york-city-scott-stringer-38866c4a149af462823a6733ff8d2138

[RLLD 4,230]

15 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

NYC pension funds to divest $4 billion from fossil fuels
 

https://apnews.com/article/new-york-us-news-bill-de-blasio-new-york-city-scott-stringer-38866c4a149af462823a6733ff8d2138

Thats fine, they should make some decent coin when they do so, then they can buy it up later when the Republicans unfock all these Biden policies....

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

17 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You proved it wrong? 3 of the NYC pension funds have completely divested. That’s a fact. You proved you just take the first thing google provides you.  And you don’t bother to even read all of it. But thanks for that article. I forwarded it to one of my delusional liberal friends. 

82 billion dollars is still wrapped up in fossil fuels through pensions...You act like this is all over because you take one thing and apply it to the whole. It's faulty logic. How do you not know this. Furthermore, any movement through divestments is something that naturally happens over time AND in 2020 the cost of climate disasters as it relates to fossil fuels doubled. So of course some money was going to move. 

And you didn't just shift the goalposts on the investment stuff. You picked them up and moved them to a new town. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

1 hour ago, Sean Mooney said:

82 billion dollars is still wrapped up in fossil fuels through pensions...You act like this is all over because you take one thing and apply it to the whole. It's faulty logic. How do you not know this. Furthermore, any movement through divestments is something that naturally happens over time AND in 2020 the cost of climate disasters as it relates to fossil fuels doubled. So of course some money was going to move. 

And you didn't just shift the goalposts on the investment stuff. You picked them up and moved them to a new town. 

Sure. Anyway, you’re in Indiana? Looks their pension funds will be divesting from fossil fuels as well. Way to be on top of things. It’s only your pension.  How come you didn’t know that? 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Sure. Anyway, you’re in Indiana? Looks their pension funds will be divesting from fossil fuels as well. Way to be on top of things. It’s only your pension.  How come you didn’t know that? 

I'm not in Indiana.

Dude- you are lost in the weeds here. Take the "L" and move on to another day where you can take another "L"