Failure of the public education system

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

2 minutes ago, vomit said:

Last week he challenged me to a fight over vaccine efficacy or something

No I didn’t. I said you wouldn’t act like a retard in real life. Because you would sound retarded asking the same question over and over that  had already been answered numerous times. But your little fantasy in your head told you something else. 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So students and parents weren’t a pain in the ass years ago? It’s just on them? You should read up on bussing. Were those parents just a pain or were they right? They made their voices heard too. There were Mooneys back then too telling them they don’t know what they’re talking about. 

It's gotten worse.  There have always been pain in the butt kids but now parents are even worse.  Teachers have little they can do in order to make consequences for students as well.  A student has no fear of flunking out of school.  They can basically do what ever they want now.

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

18 minutes ago, MDC said:

Was that the time he challenged Digby to a fight, or is there another one? 

I think it was Pimpy,, maybe vomit....Hardcore got mad because his lunch was being handed to him and her resorted to "You wouldn't say that to me in person..."

18 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yeah. In the age of information only the teachers have the answers. What’s the part I couldn’t handle? Following the lesson plan? I can do that. Keeping good order? I can for sure do that. Steer kids in the right direction? Been there, done that. Answer kids questions about sex? I won’t do that. You shouldn’t either. 

You've established you can't read- so no on the lesson plan.

You fly off the handle because an Internet poster disagrees with you- so no on good order keeping.

You can barely string together coherent thoughts and post 15 random things at any given moment- so right direction no.

You've established guidance counselors can handle questions about sex and as we learned the other day when I walked you dead into it I am part teacher/part guidance counselor...remember getting destroyed.

 

You'd never be able to handle the disrespect from students and parents. You'd never be able to handle a student breaking down because of something going on in their life that has nothing to do with school. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's gotten worse.  There have always been pain in the butt kids but now parents are even worse.  Teachers have little they can do in order to make consequences for students as well.  A student has no fear of flunking out of school.  They can basically do what ever they want now.

Some truth to that.  But parents do have some legit concerns as well. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

I think it was Pimpy....Hardcore got mad because his lunch was being handed to him and her resorted to "You wouldn't say that to me in person..."

You've established you can't read- so no on the lesson plan.

You fly off the handle because an Internet poster disagrees with you- so no on good order keeping.

You can barely string together coherent thoughts and post 15 random things at any given moment- so right direction no.

You've established guidance counselors can handle questions about sex and as we learned the other day when I walked you dead into it I am part teacher/part guidance counselor...remember getting destroyed.

 

You'd never be able to handle the disrespect from students and parents. You'd never be able to handle a student breaking down because of something going on in their life that has nothing to do with school. 

I said in real life. I don’t have to be involved in real life, I do in person  Get it straight. 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Some truth to that.  But parents do have some legit concerns as well. 

Of course they do.  The whole thing is a mess right now.

[Fireballer 2,642]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's gotten worse.  There have always been pain in the butt kids but now parents are even worse.  Teachers have little they can do in order to make consequences for students as well.  A student has no fear of flunking out of school.  They can basically do what ever they want now.

Are you saying administrators are handcuffed when disciplining kids?  What has changed that makes them inable to institute punishment?

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Fireballer said:

Are you saying administrators are handcuffed when disciplining kids?  What has changed that makes them inable to institute punishment?

Nothing like they did years ago.  No physical contact.  Can barely raise your voice without fear of the student claiming verbal abuse.  Suspensions are allowed but don't do much, especially if the parents believe their child over the school.  What consequences are kids afraid of right now?

[MDC 7,411]

14 minutes ago, vomit said:

Last week he challenged me to a fight over vaccine efficacy or something

 Wut a clown.  

[Utilit99 4,099]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Nothing like they did years ago.  No physical contact.  Can barely raise your voice without fear of the student claiming verbal abuse.  Suspensions are allowed but don't do much, especially if the parents believe their child over the school.  What consequences are kids afraid of right now?

Fock the suspensions. Have a strike 3 policy. Kick them the fock out of school.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

Just now, Utilit99 said:

Fock the suspensions. Have a strike 3 policy. Kick them the fock out of school.

They just go to another school then. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

They just go to another school then. 

Fine. Let them get kicked out of there too. Schools need to man up and say when the problem is the kid, then the "system" should hold the parents accountable.

[Fireballer 2,642]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Nothing like they did years ago.  No physical contact.  Can barely raise your voice without fear of the student claiming verbal abuse.  Suspensions are allowed but don't do much, especially if the parents believe their child over the school.  What consequences are kids afraid of right now?

Do you think alot of this is caused by implementing restorative justice practices in schools? 

[DonS 3,292]

7 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Are you saying administrators are handcuffed when disciplining kids?  What has changed that makes them inable to institute punishment?

Apparently in my neck of the woods the teacher must take into account race and culture before doling out punishment:

https://mynorthwest.com/3399911/rantz-wa-schools-adopt-race-based-discipline-white-students-get-harsher-punishment/

Click bait title for sure, but the content includes actual quotes from the discussion.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Utilit99 said:

Fine. Let them get kicked out of there too. Schools need to man up and say when the problem is the kid, then the "system" should hold the parents accountable.

That sounds great but that's not how it works anymore.  That's why I said it's harder for teachers now.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

3 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Do you think alot of this is caused by implementing restorative justice practices in schools? 

Maybe some.  I get the reasoning behind restorative justice practices though.

[Voltaire 5,316]

6 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Do you think alot of this is caused by implementing restorative justice practices in schools? 

 

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Maybe some.  I get the reasoning behind restorative justice practices though.

<<<----- Someone pretending he knows what "restorative justice" means.

[Fireballer 2,642]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Maybe some.  I get the reasoning behind restorative justice practices though.

You do know that discipline reform is a big part of restorative justice, right?

[Utilit99 4,099]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

That sounds great but that's not how it works anymore.  That's why I said it's harder for teachers now.

Yeah, the "system" needs to change. 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Fireballer said:

You do know that discipline reform is a big part of restorative justice, right?

Yes.  Like I said, I get the reasoning behind it.  I think it can work with some kids but not all. 

[Cloaca du jour 2,149]

25 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

What do you mean?  What kind of questions do they start asking?  

 

This is a huge load of "look at me" horsesh!t. If you actually believe this, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe it'd rooted in the liberal phenomena that government should take over raising kids.

Maybe if you actually shadowed a principal at a below average performing district you would see.  Puppies and rainbows it isnt.  So when a kid gets caught vaping and the parent says it is the schools fault.  Or the parent who wants to fight the principal over his 100 dollar vape charger.  Oh..btw..the kid has an IEP so you cant punish him as he by law requires a least restrictive environment.  Maybe you live in fantasy land but most of rural/suburban america doesnt.  

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

2 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

Yeah, the "system" needs to change. 

I think it needs to change too.  I obviously don't have the right answers but I do know that things are not working well.  We aren't going to have enough teachers eventually.

[Fireballer 2,642]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Yes.  Like I said, I get the reasoning behind it.  I think it can work with some kids but not all. 

Do you think overall leniency is a product of restorative justice?

 

[Cloaca du jour 2,149]

6 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

You do know that discipline reform is a big part of restorative justice, right?

The rules we grew up with in school were predicated on the fact that our parents or us kids gave a sheit about our future.

Kids dont care now if they get kicked out or suspended.  They can still talk to their friends and make tik tok videos all day.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

2 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Do you think overall leniency is a product of restorative justice?

 

Maybe not 100% but, yes.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Cloaca du jour said:

The rules we grew up with in school were predicated on the fact that our parents or us kids gave a sheit about our future.

Kids dont care now if they get kicked out or suspended.  They can still talk to their friends and make tik tok videos all day.

Need better parenting for many of the problem kids.

[Cloaca du jour 2,149]

11 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Yes.  Like I said, I get the reasoning behind it.  I think it can work with some kids but not all. 

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

[Fireballer 2,642]

So can we agree that disciplinary "progress" through restorative justice has made it worse for teachers and the actual students it was aimed to help?

[Utilit99 4,099]

13 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Need better parenting for many of the problem kids.

Way better. A few times I was asked to speak in some Baltimore inner city schools. Those areas and schools were frightening. I did not belong in those neighborhoods in the first place and the school doors were locked shut for safety for good reason. Had to go through a metal detector to get in. 

When filling the auditorium the teachers were overmatched. They had to resort to punishment threats and screaming over a loud speaker just to get the kids settled into their seats. We were able to hold their attention but holy crap. Where are the parents? 

As a side note, there were 8th graders that were literally like 6'0" 210. And they looked like they were 25 years old. I'm sure they ruled the student body. And maybe even the teachers.   

 

 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

36 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

Maybe if you actually shadowed a principal at a below average performing district you would see.  Puppies and rainbows it isnt.  So when a kid gets caught vaping and the parent says it is the schools fault.  Or the parent who wants to fight the principal over his 100 dollar vape charger.  Oh..btw..the kid has an IEP so you cant punish him as he by law requires a least restrictive environment.  Maybe you live in fantasy land but most of rural/suburban america doesnt.  

Yup....you are speaking a lot of truth and it's why the simplistic view of "Just kick the kid out" doesn't work. Your view of the IEP stuff is dead on too and many don't get that aspect. 

It also is important to note that the role of schools in society has increased tenfold while the want to fund, and structure for it has decreased. For many kids- especially in more inner city and rural districts- school is the safest place for students and the places where they can get guaranteed meals and everything with the free and reduced lunch breakfast and lunch programs. That's why when COVID hit- some schools kept their lunch programs running. They had the food anyway so they kept making meals and having pick ups and everything so kids could still have a solid meal. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

35 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Need better parenting for many of the problem kids.

Yes. And when teachers try to establish rules or tough conditions on students there are parents rushing into school to yell "You hate my kid," "You are racist," or any other number of things...So basically- parents don't want to parent, they don't want teachers to parent and they want schools to bend over backwards for their kids. And if you just keep kicking the kid from school to school you are affecting the kid more than anyone else. 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Yes. And when teachers try to establish rules or tough conditions on students there are parents rushing into school to yell "You hate my kid," "You are racist," or any other number of things...So basically- parents don't want to parent, they don't want teachers to parent and they want schools to bend over backwards for their kids. And if you just keep kicking the kid from school to school you are affecting the kid more than anyone else. 

Exactly.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

I still don’t know why teachers want to teach students k-3 about sex and gender issues? 

[Utilit99 4,099]

My parents sided with my teachers when it came to discipline. 

If I didn't do I work, and the teacher's methods of getting me to do my work weren't enough to convince me to do it, the last thing I wanted was to face my parents. So I did my work.  

Parents should stop becoming parents if they are so damn sensitive to an undisciplined kid and their crappy current day liberal teachers. 

[Fireballer 2,642]

3 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

So basically- parents don't want to parent, they don't want teachers to parent and they want schools to bend over backwards for their kids. 

Well damn, at least we now know where the fault lies for sh!tty public schools.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

3 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

Yes. And when teachers try to establish rules or tough conditions on students there are parents rushing into school to yell "You hate my kid," "You are racist," or any other number of things...So basically- parents don't want to parent, they don't want teachers to parent and they want schools to bend over backwards for their kids. And if you just keep kicking the kid from school to school you are affecting the kid more than anyone else. 

I’m sure there are so many parents doing that. Talk about the fallacy of composition.  You could at least say “some parents” even though we all know it’s a few parents. 

[Cloaca du jour 2,149]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’m sure there are so many parents doing that. Talk about a composition fallacy. 

What experience do you have in education?  I cant recall, room mother for your kids 3rd grade?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,424]

Just now, Cloaca du jour said:

What experience do you have in education?  I cant recall, room mother for your kids 3rd grade?

I know it’s a few bad parents that cause the trouble.  At least in most schools, not those ghetto child care facilities posing as schools. Just like it’s a few bad students. Stop acting like it’s Class of 84 out there. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

6 hours ago, Cloaca du jour said:

You people have no idea what a classroom is like.  A friend if mine teaches biology.  She does an activity where they flip a coin to determine various traits.  The last flip is for gender.  2 heads is female..one head and one tail is male.  Kids start asking questions..what does the teacher do?  Teachers have to deal with everything that parents do not.  That load is growing every year.  

The teacher teaches biology and says that there are only 2 genders.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

6 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why would anyone want to become a teacher anymore.  The pay is not worth putting up with the students and parents anymore.

Be a teacher in NJ and try to say that with a straight face.