Failure of the public education system

[Hardcore troubadour 15,316]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm not as concerned with the amount of crappy teachers.  I think they're a pretty small percentage of all teachers.  There are crappy people in every profession.  I'd like to see our teachers given more support and pay.  I'd like to see a little more power given back to the teachers and less power to the students and parents.  The way students and parents treat teachers now has gotten out of hand.  I'd be alright if it went back to the days when Sisters were teacher and they would smack your hand with a ruler for misbehaving.  Whatever happened to students being responsible for their actions?

Obama’s Dear Colleague letter is a good reference if you’re wondering why students aren’t held accountable for their behavior. I’ll give you a hint: racism. 

[BunnysBastatrds 2,418]

2 hours ago, MDC said:

My first thought. The usual outrage mongers will keep going though. It’s what they know.

 What they say is not the main problem. It’s what they don’t say or feel compelled to do what is right by the majority of their students. I spent over a hundred thousand for my daughters private schooling prior to college at LSU. Had she gone public schools, nurseries at this point, she never would have been accepted to LSU. Worth every fawking penny. 
 

Go to a recruiter office and ask them how they think of recruits off the record that are public schooled. You would be amazed at their response. It’s night and day the difference between public and private school children. 

[MDC 7,326]

4 minutes ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

 What they say is not the main problem. It’s what they don’t say or feel compelled to do what is right by the majority of their students. I spent over a hundred thousand for my daughters private schooling prior to college at LSU. Had she gone public schools, nurseries at this point, she never would have been accepted to LSU. Worth every fawking penny. 
 

Go to a recruiter office and ask them how they think of recruits off the record that are public schooled. You would be amazed at their response. It’s night and day the difference between public and private school children. 

I have no problem with private - my son goes to private. I think the big difference is that the parents of private school kids took enough of an interest in their kids’ education to bother to send them somewhere other than the local public, and had the means to do so. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,316]

20 minutes ago, MDC said:

I have no problem with private - my son goes to private. I think the big difference is that the parents of private school kids took enough of an interest in their kids’ education to bother to send them somewhere other than the local public, and had the means to do so. 

And some of them are of modest means and do it anyway. 

[BunnysBastatrds 2,418]

46 minutes ago, MDC said:

I have no problem with private - my son goes to private. I think the big difference is that the parents of private school kids took enough of an interest in their kids’ education to bother to send them somewhere other than the local public, and had the means to do so. 

 Agree completely. Charter schools in HS are a good start but they are slowly deteriorating into regular public schools. At least here they are. My daughters catholic/ private elementary school became a test voucher school for the state and country after Katrina. It now resembles a public school as all the teachers who want to teach and not becoming sitters,are quitting and or retiring. There replacements, public school employees. I have no problems with vouchers if done correctly. First- all incoming voucher students start in private schools in preK. If your child was in public schools up to the fifth grade and want to  start there, no. They are behind and will need extra attention taking away from students who are way ahead. Second- strict rules that were put into place have to be adhered to. No exceptions. Third- Mandatory parental/guardian participation. PTA meetings/Parent teachers meetings/Volunteering for school events. That’s just for started. 

[BunnysBastatrds 2,418]

41 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

And some of them are of modest means and do it anyway. 

Me. I’d shovel fish guts in Grand Isles as a second or third job before my daughter EVER went to a public school. She hated me for sending her to an all girl Catholic HS school instead of a public school.When she was accepted into LSU, only thirty nine hundred incoming freshmen out of over fifty thousand that applied, were accepted. Her being one while all of her public school friends we’re heading to community (smoking)college, she thanked me. One of the best days of my life. All of our sacrifices paid off million fold. 

 And for the record- She became an agnostic by her junior year in HS. I told her believe in herself and her beliefs. And she did. 

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

6 minutes ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

Me. I’d shovel fish guts in Grand Isles as a second or third job before my daughter EVER went to a public school. She hated me for sending her to an all girl Catholic HS school instead of a public school.When she was accepted into LSU, only thirty nine hundred incoming freshmen out of over fifty thousand that applied, were accepted. Her being one while all of her public school friends we’re heading to community (smoking)college, she thanked me. One of the best days of my life. All of our sacrifices paid off million fold. 

 And for the record- She became an agnostic by her junior year in HS. I told her believe in herself and her beliefs. And she did. 

What's wrong with going to a community college?

[MDC 7,326]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

What's wrong with going to a community college?

More importantly, what’s a community smoking college?  

[Sean Mooney 1,979]

14 hours ago, Fireballer said:

This little lass must have put a on a fresh pair of Mooneys smarty pants  this morning.  I guess she's cool with telling parents to "get bent".  Meh, they were probably nosy Holocaust deniers so they deserved it.

 

It is hilarious how much I am in your head because you misinterpreted something I said and instead of trying to ask about it or understand it you make passive aggressive threads and comments about me. You are a huge pissypants baby.

Also, this teacher is kinda hot. Dumb, but kinda hot......I mean- the parent is a tax payer and they elect school board members so they are kinda your boss. 

4 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm not as concerned with the amount of crappy teachers.  I think they're a pretty small percentage of all teachers.  There are crappy people in every profession.  I'd like to see our teachers given more support and pay.  I'd like to see a little more power given back to the teachers and less power to the students and parents.  The way students and parents treat teachers now has gotten out of hand.  I'd be alright if it went back to the days when Sisters were teacher and they would smack your hand with a ruler for misbehaving.  Whatever happened to students being responsible for their actions?

I don't need more money anymore than anyone wants more money. I don't need more support or any of that. A little bit of more respect from parents would be nice because it would trickle down to students but you have too many parents (and teachers really) that have allowed themselves to be sucked into the political battles of teaching. These people putting these videos on TikTok or whatever else are morons. They might be great teachers, they might be terrible- but they are complete morons. There is zero reason to go post videos that can be viewed by all that espouse your social and political views. There is very little reason to ever espouse your social and political views to students. When I discuss touchy issues in school- for whatever reason- I make sure to stay very down the middle and present an example from both sides so as to stay as neutral as possible. I'm not trying to change what students think- it's not my job. As an English teacher though part of my job at high school level is to encourage them to think about what they think- how to weed through bias, how to use facts to support arguments, and how to draw actual conclusions after a fair assessment of the data. I'd say 98% of the students I've had over the past decade enjoy my classes and recognize that I treat them with respect and compassion and am tough but fair. I've had fair few parental problems over the years but the ones that are usually just like to scream loudly and then are done quickly. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,533]

14 hours ago, MTSkiBum said:

Qualifications:

I do know many expats and foreign nationals. You read stories from @Voltaire and it makes you wonder about the Chinese education and you hear stories from other expats and it paints a broader picture. Other countries may produce better results,  but at what cost.

My current boss is Brazilian, my last boss was from Argentina, my current and past coworkers cover many different countries from Sweden to Russia to Venezuela to UK.Since I have young kids in elementary school I have been talking about education with many different people.

I have talked with these foreigners about schooling and different types of school systems both in Houston and globally.

Stats:

There are 3.6 million teachers in the US. Think about that for a moment. I am not going to congratulate you for finding some crazy teachers on the internet because there are many crazy teachers. The internet and the pool of teachers is both large enough you can probably found thousands of examples and yet it is still not a major issue.

Level of concern:

Hardly any. I admit a crappy teacher sucks, we can all look back and probably find one in our own life. However when speaking with people that have experience in other countries i am not terribly concerned that america is heading down the wrong path.

Going forward:

I think we should pay teachers more. I think this would increase the quality of teachers, because people that would become accountants, engineers, actuaries, etc, etc, could become teachers instead.

 

 

TL:DR

I have two young kids, so of course i have been reading and discussing education, we are alright.

If I took your post and used the words "Police Officer" instead of the word "teacher", would you be in agreement there?

[RLLD 4,207]

I think education is local.

There are areas where performance will lag and areas where it will not.

This is dependent mostly on the quality of the kids, but that itself is a representation of the quality of the parents.  Sh!tty parents tend to result in sh!tty kids, and then you have sh!tty performance.

Some schools that get a bad perception ignore the quality of the teachers and the programs, and the fact that there are kids who DO PERFORM; because they do not have sh!tty parents and the kids are not themselves sh!tty....

[MDC 7,326]

20 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think education is local.

There are areas where performance will lag and areas where it will not.

This is dependent mostly on the quality of the kids, but that itself is a representation of the quality of the parents.  Sh!tty parents tend to result in sh!tty kids, and then you have sh!tty performance.

Some schools that get a bad perception ignore the quality of the teachers and the programs, and the fact that there are kids who DO PERFORM; because they do not have sh!tty parents and the kids are not themselves sh!tty....

I totally agree with this and think student performance has way more to do with the parents and the environment than the teachers or performance of schools. I don’t even know how you’d fairly judge teacher performance give that the results are mostly out of their hands. Why would any high quality teacher voluntarily go teach in a ghetto? Career suicide. Maybe life suicide.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,418]

47 minutes ago, MDC said:

More importantly, what’s a community smoking college?  

 I scored a twenty three on my ACT. What killed my score was the math. Wanted to go to LSU but  was told by a counselor that I needed to take some community college math  classes so I enrolled for two math classes. First thing I noticed was everybody smoke and drank coffee I smoked and drank Irish coffee. Second was that few could speak engrish. Third was what the fawk was I doing there’s. After acing my classes I was accepted into ULL. Coon arse country Cajun land. Land of loose wemens who can eat more crawfish than their daddy’s. Speaking of which. I met Edie Breckell at the Delgado Community College crawfish boil 🦞 and fingered her right after. Only plus for going to community college. Got to finger bang a new bohemian. Bra!!!

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

6 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

If I took your post and used the words "Police Officer" instead of the word "teacher", would you be in agreement there?

 

I do not think it can be replaced because I do think we need to drastically increase the number of police officers in major cities, but to your point police officers in this country are generally good and only the rare bad ones make the news.

[Fireballer 2,641]

17 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

It is hilarious how much I am in your head because you misinterpreted something I said and instead of trying to ask about it or understand it you make passive aggressive threads and comments about me. You are a huge pissypants baby.

Also, this teacher is kinda hot. Dumb, but kinda hot......I mean- the parent is a tax payer and they elect school board members so they are kinda your boss. 

No, you personally are not in my head. You're only a pawn in this game.  I refer to you here at the GC because of your familiarity to the posters here.  

The goal is continue to peel back the onion on what public education has become.  You threw your gun with the comment about worrying about floodgates opening and parents nitpicking. What on Earth could you be fearing from parents?  You're worried about accountability from parents.  You're mad that your profession has been outed. You fear additional transparency.

I for one welcome transparency at work. It ensures that I am providing the level of service that the community expects. I work with more transparency and accountability than you can imagine unders stressors that would make you p!ss your pants. I have thousands of eyes on me on a daily basis. I bet you would lose your sh!t if you were forced to have a camera in your room. How about just streaming the audio from your class? Well, on a daily basis I have dozens of cameras on me and my voice is streamed to tens of thousands of users listening to online scanners. So forgive me if I don't share your dismay at floodgates of accountability opening up.  

 The mentality in the videos that I have posted is what parents got to see during virtual learning and they see that their trust has been taken advantage of. But go ahead, continue to elect your union leaders who are fighting transparency.

[DonS 3,292]

5 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

Dude needs a manzier.

No!  He needs a "bro"! 

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

I think education is local.

There are areas where performance will lag and areas where it will not.

This is dependent mostly on the quality of the kids, but that itself is a representation of the quality of the parents.  Sh!tty parents tend to result in sh!tty kids, and then you have sh!tty performance.

Some schools that get a bad perception ignore the quality of the teachers and the programs, and the fact that there are kids who DO PERFORM; because they do not have sh!tty parents and the kids are not themselves sh!tty....

This is very accurate.  The school my wife teaches at has a very different quality of kids and parents compared to the surrounding school.  There are more lower income families and crappy parents at her school compared to the Catholic school we went to.  It's still a really good school overall but there are just more kids with issues there.  Every time my wife comes home telling me a story about a kid that acted out or did something very stupid I always ask what their parents are like.  99% of the time they are terrible parents.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,418]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

What's wrong with going to a community college?

 The land of misfit toys believing they can become something that they will never be. Chalk it up to poor public schools teaching and administration along with the teachers unions. Most incoming freshmen do not graduate that started in community colleges. Stats don’t lie. Most should have had trade school opportunities in HS but were not offered or available because of the focus on getting 100% of all students to work their way towards college. Ask any teacher with a master’s in teaching and they will say the same thing. Judge Smails said it best, “The world needs ditch diggers too!!!”

 

 Community college classes for higher education are a different thing altogether. Night classes and online education for those who have a TRUE desire succeed at a much higher rate. Very valuable for those that have jobs to support their family and want to better their lives. 
 

 Again, offer more trade classes. A lot more. Mechanic/Wood Working/Plumbing/HVAC/Restaurant/Hair Dressing/How it’s made classes, etc. Talk with any young man or woman who could not cut it in HS or college why they dropped out and got into the said above. Most will respond, needed a job and got on the job training to get there and here. 

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

1 minute ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

 The land of misfit toys believing they can become something that they will never be. Chalk it up to poor public schools teaching and administration along with the teachers unions. Most incoming freshmen do not graduate that started in community colleges. Stats don’t lie. Most should have had trade school opportunities in HS but were not offered or available because of the focus on getting 100% of all students to work their way towards college. Ask any teacher with a master’s in teaching and they will say the same thing. Judge Smails said it best, “The world needs ditch diggers too!!!”

 

 Community college classes for higher education are a different thing altogether. Night classes and online education for those who have a TRUE desire succeed at a much higher rate. Very valuable for those that have jobs to support their family and want to better their lives. 
 

 Again, offer more trade classes. A lot more. Mechanic/Wood Working/Plumbing/HVAC/Restaurant/Hair Dressing/How it’s made classes, etc. Talk with any young man or woman who could not cut it in HS or college why they dropped out and got into the said above. Most will respond, needed a job and got on the job training to get there and here. 

Community colleges can offer all of that.  I had classmates that went to community college for Carpentry, HVAC, Landscaping, Turf Management, Culinary Arts and Graphic Design.  They are all have good careers and had very little in student loans.  It's not just a place to go for Liberal Arts.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,418]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Community colleges can offer all of that.  I had classmates that went to community college for Carpentry, HVAC, Landscaping, Turf Management, Culinary Arts and Graphic Design.  They are all have good careers and had very little in student loans.  It's not just a place to go for Liberal Arts.

 Agree. But why not start them out with the opportunity in HS to go that route instead of expecting all students and their peers to become something that they know they won’t be??? Entrepreneurship and small business is the fuel that drives this country foundation.Not big government that wants to curtail it and make everyone believe we are all COMPLETELY equal in all. We’re not or should be. Work your fawking ass off and then believe. If you fail, get up and try again. 

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

24 minutes ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

 Agree. But why not start them out with the opportunity in HS to go that route instead of expecting all students and their peers to become something that they know they won’t be??? Entrepreneurship and small business is the fuel that drives this country foundation.Not big government that wants to curtail it and make everyone believe we are all COMPLETELY equal in all. We’re not or should be. Work your fawking ass off and then believe. If you fail, get up and try again. 

BINGO!  I would love to see that happen and tell my wife the same thing.

There are so many kids who have no idea what they want to do when they graduate high school because they were not taught much about what their options are.  These kids then go onto Universities where they take a bunch of different classes to see what they might like, spending 4 - 5 years and tens of thousands of dollars getting a degree in something they don't end up having a career in.

Help kids find out what's best for them in high school so they can get started in a good career earlier and avoid high student loans.

When my son finished at Catholic middle school we had to decide if we were going to send him to the Catholic Jr/Sr High School that we went to or send him to the public school my wife teaches at.  We decided on the public school because it had more to offer him for after graduation.  Catholic school couldn't offer as much because of the religion classes they are required to take.  They also didn't have a decent college they work with for AP classes.

[lod001 1,344]

If I'm reading this right some parents dismissed some woketard school board losers in SF, CA of all places. They got absolutely smoked in the recall. This needs to happen all across woketardlands in the USA.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/san-francisco-voters-send-democrats-a-warning-on-schools-180841783.html

They need to be put in their place so crap like this doesn't happen again. 

[Fireballer 2,641]

Fake?  I doubt it.  They have the principal name in there, so it would be stupid to fake it.  This is probably more widespread than we think.

 

[Cloaca du jour 2,148]

Gonna be a teacher shortage soon.  Its a crap job.  Worse than coaching lol.

[Sean Mooney 1,979]

5 hours ago, Fireballer said:

No, you personally are not in my head. You're only a pawn in this game.  I refer to you here at the GC because of your familiarity to the posters here.  

The goal is continue to peel back the onion on what public education has become.  You threw your gun with the comment about worrying about floodgates opening and parents nitpicking. What on Earth could you be fearing from parents?  You're worried about accountability from parents.  You're mad that your profession has been outed. You fear additional transparency.

I for one welcome transparency at work. It ensures that I am providing the level of service that the community expects. I work with more transparency and accountability than you can imagine unders stressors that would make you p!ss your pants. I have thousands of eyes on me on a daily basis. I bet you would lose your sh!t if you were forced to have a camera in your room. How about just streaming the audio from your class? Well, on a daily basis I have dozens of cameras on me and my voice is streamed to tens of thousands of users listening to online scanners. So forgive me if I don't share your dismay at floodgates of accountability opening up.  

 The mentality in the videos that I have posted is what parents got to see during virtual learning and they see that their trust has been taken advantage of. But go ahead, continue to elect your union leaders who are fighting transparency.

I'm in your head because of the passive aggressive way you have to refer to me instead of just making your stupid points.

I made a comment that there is a point where parent concern can cross over into something else. You wanted an example and I gave you one. You decided that wasn't enough and was absurd. Even though there are pushbacks against Holocaust novels that may or may not be the reason it is happening right now. I don't fear sh!t from parents. My lessons are all already posted through my school. I live in a state where they are about to make it so everything a teacher does needs to be posted online. I ain't got nothing to hide. I don't fear additional transparency, I foresee misguided transparency. I foresee parents not questioning why we are doing things but rather trying to dictate how we do things. 

I taught in a cyber school for years where I videotaped lessons. I am coming off 2 years where I was doing lessons virtually while kids sat at home with parents within earshot. I welcome people listening in because I've got nothing to hide and there is absolutely nothing I do in the classroom that is questionable in any real way. 

But you have decided you know what is happening even though you are just parroting what others say. You have bought into this idea that the right wants to make teachers on par with how they view the left treat cops. I'd bet you have problems with cops being monitored and under scrutiny like they are. But yet- you think I'm ridiculous for thinking people might go overboard.

You can p-i-s-s off with your fake William Wallace BS pretending like you give a damn about transparency in teaching or parental concern and choice. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

When you have sean mooney's babysitting you 6 year olds you get what you deserve. Too bad the kids have to suffer for it.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,316]

1 hour ago, Cloaca du jour said:

Gonna be a teacher shortage soon.  Its a crap job.  Worse than coaching lol.

Only if they make them work in the summer. 

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

11 hours ago, Cloaca du jour said:

Gonna be a teacher shortage soon.  Its a crap job.  Worse than coaching lol.

A lot of coaches are also teachers too.  Talk about being a glutton for punishment.

[Cloaca du jour 2,148]

11 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Only if they make them work in the summer. 

For another 1/4 pay??  Alot of teachers would go 4 it.  We need year round school anyway.  Summers off is an outdated concept back when kids had to harvest.

[Utilit99 4,099]

Just now, Cloaca du jour said:

For another 1/4 pay??  Alot of teachers would go 4 it.  We need year round school anyway.  Summers off is an outdated concept back when kids had to harvest.

I agree. Fit in like 3 weeks of vacation over the year. I would be open for negotiations on that. 

[RLLD 4,207]

Agree with the year round school.   It would not be easy but I think most would embrace it.

[Cloaca du jour 2,148]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

Agree with the year round school.   It would not be easy but I think most would embrace it.

Some do year round...with spring break and xmas break and a small summer break...like 2 weeks.

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

15 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

For another 1/4 pay??  Alot of teachers would go 4 it.  We need year round school anyway.  Summers off is an outdated concept back when kids had to harvest.

 

I disagree with this. I confirmed with my manager yesterday that I am allowed to work remotely this summer so we are going to take a ~month long road trip this summer. In addition to other trips like Arkansas.

I would make summer break longer for the kids.

[Fireballer 2,641]

17 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

I disagree with this. I confirmed with my manager yesterday that I am allowed to work remotely this summer so we are going to take a ~month long road trip this summer. In addition to other trips like Arkansas.

I would make summer break longer for the kids.

There's a few schools around here that are doing it where they have a higher "marginalized" student body. I think the verdict is still out on the impact.  With my job, I am able to take usually 2 multi week vacations in the summer.  I see no need to change anything.

[Sean Mooney 1,979]

25 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

I disagree with this. I confirmed with my manager yesterday that I am allowed to work remotely this summer so we are going to take a ~month long road trip this summer. In addition to other trips like Arkansas.

I would make summer break longer for the kids.

I think you would have a strong parental pushback on year round schooling in many cases. 

Schools have tried to add Flexible instruction Days so when it snows they can close the schools but still do school online- people melt down. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,316]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

I think you would have a strong parental pushback on year round schooling in many cases. 

Schools have tried to add Flexible instruction Days so when it snows they can close the schools but still do school online- people melt down. 

A few people melt down. Most do not Tell the ones that do tough. 

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

8 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I think you would have a strong parental pushback on year round schooling in many cases. 

Schools have tried to add Flexible instruction Days so when it snows they can close the schools but still do school online- people melt down. 

 

I agree with the below. The problem is a minority of the people are the loudest.

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

A few people melt down. Most do not Tell the ones that do tough. 

 

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

21 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

There's a few schools around here that are doing it where they have a higher "marginalized" student body. I think the verdict is still out on the impact.  With my job, I am able to take usually 2 multi week vacations in the summer.  I see no need to change anything.

 

I can see the benefit of year round schooling for the inner city. Many of those students do not have the same luxury that we have and in addition many are single parent households and having them in school gives them parental guidance during the summer. It would be a benefit for them.

But.......

It would really mess up those of us who can take advantage of the summer. A month long road trip through the rockies is very important and my kids will not suffer any long term negative for having a couple months off every summer.

 

Maybe the best thing would be for the federal government get out of the school business and let states and individual school districts to better tailor the school time, length, testing, etc to their individual constituents.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,316]

How about, the kids that do their work, pass, and most importantly, behave, get the summer off? The rest get to put some more time in over the summer. Amd you’ll say , “they already have summer school”.   Not if you just keep passing the kids to the next grade. And make behavior a part of it as well.  But we go the other way. Wonder why? Oh that’s right, Racism! 

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

16 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

I agree with the below. The problem is a minority of the people are the loudest.

 

That's true with just about everything in life.