Failure of the public education system

[Cloaca du jour 2,148]

11 hours ago, Fireballer said:

 

I dont care if kids are reading mein kampf.  Gettting kids to read anything is a chore. <sarcasm>

[Sean Mooney 1,973]

23 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Out of context...LMAO.  

You're right...just posting a book page is not out of context because some Twitter account says so. 

[RLLD 4,205]

11 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

You're right...just posting a book page is not out of context because some Twitter account says so. 

"Out of context" is the way sneaky people use to backpedal when caught.  Its like saying, well yes...I did write that but uhhhh....you have to consider the wider context....cause, y'know that what k-12 kids are just really accomplished doing....and what not...   

[Sean Mooney 1,973]

15 minutes ago, RLLD said:

"Out of context" is the way sneaky people use to backpedal when caught.  Its like saying, well yes...I did write that but uhhhh....you have to consider the wider context....cause, y'know that what k-12 kids are just really accomplished doing....and what not...   

And what was I "caught" doing.

All I'm saying is looking at a Twitter account which is literally just posting pictures of books and videos from idiots is posting things out of context. If you all don't see that, or you think it means I am defending things, that speaks more about all of you than it does me. Also, do you disagree that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves?

And kids K-12 as a whole are a lot smarter than you want to give them credit for.  

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

And what was I "caught" doing.

All I'm saying is looking at a Twitter account which is literally just posting pictures of books and videos from idiots is posting things out of context. If you all don't see that, or you think it means I am defending things, that speaks more about all of you than it does me. Also, do you disagree that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves? 

Other people's biases are bad.  Their biases should be ignored.  Lots of hypocrites. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,530]

13 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Other people's biases are bad.  Their biases should be ignored.  Lots of hypocrites. 

They're all hypocrites.  The only issue I have is that the left loves to call out the right... but when the right calls out the left, they're "racist" or "facist", or whatever else name you want to include.  I mean, the dipsh!t you just quoted does it all the time.

[Cloaca du jour 2,148]

15 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

And what was I "caught" doing.

All I'm saying is looking at a Twitter account which is literally just posting pictures of books and videos from idiots is posting things out of context. If you all don't see that, or you think it means I am defending things, that speaks more about all of you than it does me. Also, do you disagree that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves?

And kids K-12 as a whole are a lot smarter than you want to give them credit for.  

This is categorically wrong.  Having google at your fingertips does not make you smarter.  High schools are full of students with 4.0 gpas and cant get higher than a 17 on the act.  Kids today have no problem solving or higher order cognitive skills.  Everything has been dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.  We no longer celebrate intelligence because it hurts the dumb kids feelings.  Education is a mess.  Focusing on the wrong things.  No executive skills at all..it is unreal.

[RLLD 4,205]

12 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

This is categorically wrong.  Having google at your fingertips does not make you smarter.  High schools are full of students with 4.0 gpas and cant get higher than a 17 on the act.  Kids today have no problem solving or higher order cognitive skills.  Everything has been dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.  We no longer celebrate intelligence because it hurts the dumb kids feelings.  Education is a mess.  Focusing on the wrong things.  No executive skills at all..it is unreal.

Correct.

Instead of teaching WHAT to think the goal is to enable them to learn HOW to think.  How to evaluate information on their own to arrive at conclusions, and be able to defend those positions.

Instead, the left has been working rather diligently to indoctrinate children and teach then WHAT to think.  This is not what we are, this is not who we are, this is what North Korea is.....

But for the left they have migrated into being the only moral voice, therefore to even argue with them is to violate morality.  Its perverse.

 

[Sean Mooney 1,973]

18 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

They're all hypocrites.  The only issue I have is that the left loves to call out the right... but when the right calls out the left, they're "racist" or "facist", or whatever else name you want to include.  I mean, the dipsh!t you just quoted does it all the time.

I've never called anyone "racist" or "fascist." Nice try though junior. 

15 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

This is categorically wrong.  Having google at your fingertips does not make you smarter.  High schools are full of students with 4.0 gpas and cant get higher than a 17 on the act.  Kids today have no problem solving or higher order cognitive skills.  Everything has been dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.  We no longer celebrate intelligence because it hurts the dumb kids feelings.  Education is a mess.  Focusing on the wrong things.  No executive skills at all..it is unreal.

None of that has anything to do with what I responding to. And assignments can be made that are not easily Googleable. I do agree though that we no longer celebrate intelligence. Part of that is to make it so kids don't feel bad but a part of it as well is the mockery and discounting of people who are experts on things. 

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Correct.

Instead of teaching WHAT to think the goal is to enable them to learn HOW to think.  How to evaluate information on their own to arrive at conclusions, and be able to defend those positions.

Instead, the left has been working rather diligently to indoctrinate children and teach then WHAT to think.  This is not what we are, this is not who we are, this is what North Korea is.....

But for the left they have migrated into being the only moral voice, therefore to even argue with them is to violate morality.  Its perverse.

 

No one is indoctrinating children...geez. And every teacher worth their salt would tell you they are not there to tell kids what to think but rather to think about what they think. But again- there are ways you are inviting trouble on this. You'd be so better served if you'd stop after a sentence or two because it eventually devolves into paranoid conspiracy theories. 

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

And every teacher worth their salt would tell you they are not there to tell kids what to think but rather to think about what they think.

Has anyone here ever said otherwise? 

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I've never called anyone "racist" or "fascist." Nice try though junior. 

 

You just call them "junior" or some other derogatory name. Good one. 

[RLLD 4,205]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

No one is indoctrinating children...geez. And every teacher worth their salt would tell you they are not there to tell kids what to think but rather to think about what they think. But again- there are ways you are inviting trouble on this. You'd be so better served if you'd stop after a sentence or two because it eventually devolves into paranoid conspiracy theories. 

We can agree to disagree.  It does not matter what they say they are doing, I do not care that they deny; which is more or less and acknowledgement that they know what they are doing is wrong.

What matters are actions and outcomes. And their actions and outcomes are absolutely indoctrination. Fortunately it is thus far limited, but we have seen the spread and with it appropriate reaction by parents.

You can ignore it if you choose, but this is the bridge too far for your liberal cabal, and if they keep it up they will get swept out of power and it could be for a significant amount of time.  There is time to stop this, to stop pretending and face up to it.

[Sean Mooney 1,973]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

We can agree to disagree.  It does not matter what they say they are doing, I do not care that they deny; which is more or less and acknowledgement that they know what they are doing is wrong.

What matters are actions and outcomes. And their actions and outcomes are absolutely indoctrination. Fortunately it is thus far limited, but we have seen the spread and with it appropriate reaction by parents.

You can ignore it if you choose, but this is the bridge too far for your liberal cabal, and if they keep it up they will get swept out of power and it could be for a significant amount of time.  There is time to stop this, to stop pretending and face up to it.

Again- with the whole "liberal" this and "liberal" that. I'm not a liberal. And even if I were, I work in a very conservative district and it would serve me no benefit to be indoctrinating or espousing liberal views. You all see what happens in a few big cities and decide that is going on everywhere. It isn't. And yes there are dumb teachers who do dumb things in the classroom but it doesn't mean you castigate the entire profession anymore than all police officers are bad because a a few are. 

And so far the only big answer about schools from the right is voucher systems and privatizing public education which comes with its own host of issues. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

18 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Again- with the whole "liberal" this and "liberal" that. I'm not a liberal.

Coming from you it's impossible to read any further after reading that. 

Second grade teacher running around correcting people's typos that they don't even care about. And liberal to the core and not even knowing it. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,291]

Everyone makes the honor roll these days. We’re doing fine. 

[RLLD 4,205]

37 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Again- with the whole "liberal" this and "liberal" that. I'm not a liberal. And even if I were, I work in a very conservative district and it would serve me no benefit to be indoctrinating or espousing liberal views. You all see what happens in a few big cities and decide that is going on everywhere. It isn't. And yes there are dumb teachers who do dumb things in the classroom but it doesn't mean you castigate the entire profession anymore than all police officers are bad because a a few are. 

And so far the only big answer about schools from the right is voucher systems and privatizing public education which comes with its own host of issues. 

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.... 

[Sean Mooney 1,973]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Everyone makes the honor roll these days. We’re doing fine. 

Just patently false. 

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.... 

Just you trying to fit people into whatever box you want doesn't make it true. A conservative can disagree with you and think you are nuts

[RLLD 4,205]

5 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Just patently false. 

Just you trying to fit people into whatever box you want doesn't make it true. A conservative can disagree with you and think you are nuts

I see, you have a valid point.  Perhaps it would be prudent to not box up Republicans or Trump supporters too eh?

[Sean Mooney 1,973]

5 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I see, you have a valid point.  Perhaps it would be prudent to not box up Republicans or Trump supporters too eh?

Where have I?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,291]

25 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Just patently false. 

Just you trying to fit people into whatever box you want doesn't make it true. A conservative can disagree with you and think you are nuts

Ok. A lot more kids make the honor roll than years ago. Also, kids graduate high school not being able to read at grade level. Read. Not math, not anything else. Reading. 

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

11 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Ok. A lot more kids make the honor roll than years ago. Also, kids graduate high school not being able to read at grade level. Read. Not math, not anything else. Reading. 

Do we actually know this as a fact?  I honestly have no idea and never really thought about it.

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Do we actually know this as a fact?  I honestly have no idea and never really thought about it.

Yes, and it is a problem.

I am on my phone right now, but there are many good articles on grade inflation.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

1 minute ago, MTSkiBum said:

Yes, and it is a problem.

I am on my phone right now, but there are many good articles on grade inflation.

It starts from the bottom though because they don't fail anyone anymore.  Then your only option is to overly reward anyone who does anything.  The grading scale has simply slid from 0-100 to 60-120, with 100 still being the top. 

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

Grade inflation is caused by good intentions over many years. Teachers trying to help students get into better colleges or even just graduate highschool so that their students qualify for better jobs.

 

While it may help on an individual level occasionally, it hurts the countries education system as a whole.

Individual teachers or even schools cannot fix the problem now. If a teacher graded like they should grade then they hurt their students compared to other schools.

 

That is what makes this problem so complex. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,530]

2 hours ago, MTSkiBum said:

That is what makes this problem so complex. 

The problem isn't complex, it's actually very simple.  Students, and their parents, need to be held accountable for their student's performance.  Teachers need to teach, and not be activists.  I believe that solves the problem.  I just did it in 2 sentences.  Where do I go to get my 6-figure salary in the department of education?

[Fireballer 2,641]

How you "interrupt the nuclear family" without saying you're doing it. 

 

[Utilit99 4,099]

Private school or home schooling are the only options left for people who want their kids to grow up normal. 

[Fireballer 2,641]

 

[Cloaca du jour 2,148]

On 2/16/2022 at 9:42 AM, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm not as concerned with the amount of crappy teachers.  I think they're a pretty small percentage of all teachers.  There are crappy people in every profession.  I'd like to see our teachers given more support and pay.  I'd like to see a little more power given back to the teachers and less power to the students and parents.  The way students and parents treat teachers now has gotten out of hand.  I'd be alright if it went back to the days when Sisters were teacher and they would smack your hand with a ruler for misbehaving.  Whatever happened to students being responsible for their actions?

Everyone treats everyone like crap now.  Look at how we treat our presidents...no respect.  It is everywhere in society.  

[DonS 3,292]

41 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

 

JFC. I didn't realize each form of mental illness has its own flag.  Guess they decided to rip off the color coded cancer ribbon idea.

 

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

58 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

Everyone treats everyone like crap now.  Look at how we treat our presidents...no respect.  It is everywhere in society.  

Have our President's really earned that respect though?  Trump and Biden have been terrible and have done little to earn respect.  When's the last time we had a real leader as President that the majority respected, whether they voted for him or not?

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Have our President's really earned that respect though?  Trump and Biden have been terrible and have done little to earn respect.  When's the last time we had a real leader as President that the majority respected, whether they voted for him or not?

You still are so far off on Trump it's amazing. 

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

5 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

You still are so far off on Trump it's amazing. 

I'm not though.  Trump was not a respectable person.  He's always been a sleazebag. 

[RLLD 4,205]

I think the public education system can still deliver.  I think they need to let the teachers teach instead of trying to fabricate some magical system that tries to meet the needs of all students equally.

Not all students are equal.

In fact, some of them are just sh!tty humans..... 

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

6 minutes ago, RLLD said:

In fact, some of them are just sh!tty humans..... 

Which almost always stems from sh!tty parents.

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Which almost always stems from sh!tty parents.

I have no idea why many people simply don't make the decision to not have children. There are many parents that either can't afford them or simply feel no desire to raise them with any thought put into it. 

 

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

1 minute ago, Utilit99 said:

I have no idea why many people simply don't make the decision to not have children. There are many parents that either can't afford them or simply feel no desire to raise them with any thought put into it. 

 

I agree.  Lot's of stupid people in the world.

[RLLD 4,205]

38 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Which almost always stems from sh!tty parents.

100%

Hence my support for abortion, albeit reluctant.  I think allowing sluts to raise kids is a big negative. If you are getting pregnant and not ready to have a baby, then for gods sake do not have the baby....

 

[Hawkeye21 2,398]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

100%

Hence my support for abortion, albeit reluctant.  I think allowing sluts to raise kids is a big negative. If you are getting pregnant and not ready to have a baby, then for gods sake do not have the baby....

 

Or make adoption easier and more affordable.

[Sean Mooney 1,973]

42 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Which almost always stems from sh!tty parents.

I would say in like 95% of cases it is shitty parenting. It is fair to mention too that some kids have shitty parents and turn out great, and some kids have great parents and turn out shitty.