Saudi Golf Tour

[patweisers44 697]

Pga Tour slowly becoming LPGA-lite. Buncha college players, korn ferry fairies, and Koreans. Waiting for a Michael Kim6 to appear in the screen anyday.

If i didnt gamble on it weekly i would slowly be tuning out.

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

2 hours ago, BiffTannen said:

I'm surprised it took him this long. He gives me a Cam Smith vibe. Golf is a job and he wants to play as little as possible. 

on one hand, I agree. any of us would love golf to be our "job"... but then I try to remind myself what actually comes with being on that level. If that were me, i'd probably enjoy playing a little less too. 

i mean, in reality, going to LIV is just one less day of golf per event. The amount of events they play was/is being forced on them in a roundabout way by the PGA because of fedex cup points (this was the first year the fall events didn't count)... hard not to blame the PGA for not being out in front of all this 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

Rahm says missing certain events especially those close to home is emotional for him.  

Take your money and shut your mouth goofball.  

Also, Saudis threaten to imprison bankers who cooperate with the US probe of the merger.  

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

Rahm does have a point, which others have had all along that almost every other tour has a path for it's players to play in the majors.   I would say to this point the only reason LIV does not (aside from going through qualifying where possible or being past winners) is because the PGA/R&A is just bitter. Lesser tours were never a threat. as i've said before, when the PGA banned players who signed with LIV, it was odd because they do not ban players who play in euro tour events. why? because the euro tour is no real threat and for decades, the PGA has poached top euro talent. Their best guys come live in the US and end up playing PGA full time. 

They got upset that they might not be the only game in town, and handled it poorly. 

I think a lot of people get confused with being LIV fans when in actuality it's more about being tired of the way the PGA was acting / operating. When you finally have Rory Monohan admitting that LIV exposed flaws in the PGA operations, hard to ignore. 

 

My hope is at the end of the day, everything merges again and golf is in a better place. 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

Theres no real point.  Its just whining.  Its like go bring up your bank account and shut yo mouth.  

Sure we can debate what ranking pts belong where.  Not really the point.  He knew the current setup when he made his decision.  Pipe down and enjoy your money.   

Im sure Rahm struggled with the decision.   He is one of the few that strikes me as a guy that cares about legacy and competition.  Helps hes in his prime and already established as one of the best.  But he made his decision and he knew the setup.  He knew he wouldnt be playing TPs this year.  

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Theres no real point.  Its just whining.  Its like go bring up your bank account and shut yo mouth.  

Sure we can debate what ranking pts belong where.  Not really the point.  He knew the current setup when he made his decision.  Pipe down and enjoy your money.   

Im sure Rahm struggled with the decision.   He is one of the few that strikes me as a guy that cares about legacy and competition.  Helps hes in his prime and already established as one of the best.  But he made his decision and he knew the setup.  He knew he wouldnt be playing TPs this year.  

legacy and competition is another joke reasoning. again, the PGA Tour (which was it's own breakaway from the PGA because top level pros wanted more $$) has been the only game in town. they have all they legacy by default. 

I think some of the guys heading to LIV now are doing so because they see the writing on the wall, that eventually all roads will lead to merging anyway. 

Regardless of anyone's decision, and knowing the setup, doesn't mean they can't point out the very obvious faults or hypocritical nature of certain things like major qualification.  

[listen2me 23 1,542]

1 minute ago, WhiteWonder said:

legacy and competition is another joke reasoning. again, the PGA Tour (which was it's own breakaway from the PGA because top level pros wanted more $$) has been the only game in town. they have all they legacy by default. 

I think some of the guys heading to LIV now are doing so because they see the writing on the wall, that eventually all roads will lead to merging anyway. 

Regardless of anyone's decision, and knowing the setup, doesn't mean they can't point out the very obvious faults or hypocritical nature of certain things like major qualification.  

Doesn't matter if PGA has prestige by default.  What point are you trying to make?

He wasn't pointing out flaws.  He was saying how its emotional to not be able to play some tournys now.  Lol.   And hopes they can come back.  After what 1 tourny on LIV?  Lol

They can say whatever they feel like saying.  Im just saying boo focking hoo.   

[listen2me 23 1,542]

Then he rambled about music and how its cool the crowd digs it.  Lol

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Doesn't matter if PGA has prestige by default.  What point are you trying to make?

He wasn't pointing out flaws.  He was saying how its emotional to not be able to play some tournys now.  Lol.   And hopes they can come back.  After what 1 tourny on LIV?  Lol

They can say whatever they feel like saying.  Im just saying boo focking hoo.   

1. I didn't initially quote you. I was making my own point. So we were talking about two different things Rahm pointed out. I was alluding to his comments about Niemann not being able to play in majors (aside from the Open)... hence why I was discussing major qualification 

2. In regards to prestige, it absolutely matters. How much, in 2022 and into 2023 before Jay backstabbed them, did the PGA take the stance of "we play for history and prestige!" If that is going to be your battle cry, then it's only fair to point out that you've had a monopoly on it all. 

3. the emotional stuff you are talking about, I don't disagree with. Never said I did

[listen2me 23 1,542]

7 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

1. I didn't initially quote you. I was making my own point. So we were talking about two different things Rahm pointed out. I was alluding to his comments about Niemann not being able to play in majors (aside from the Open)... hence why I was discussing major qualification 

2. In regards to prestige, it absolutely matters. How much, in 2022 and into 2023 before Jay backstabbed them, did the PGA take the stance of "we play for history and prestige!" If that is going to be your battle cry, then it's only fair to point out that you've had a monopoly on it all. 

3. the emotional stuff you are talking about, I don't disagree with. Never said I did

2.  Its not a battle cry.  Its players like Jon wanting to be involved in things that matter at historical venues in historical tournaments.   How thr PGA acquired its "prestige" is moot.  I was mentioning that im sure a guy like him weighed that out and it irks him.  A guy like Brooks doesn't care.  

How the PGA got there really isnt of any relevance to what I was saying.  They have it.  Im sure Jon will miss it.  Thats the whole point.  

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

6 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

2.  Its not a battle cry.  Its players like Jon wanting to be involved in things that matter at historical venues in historical tournaments.   How thr PGA acquired its "prestige" is moot.  I was mentioning that im sure a guy like him weighed that out and it irks him.  A guy like Brooks doesn't care.  

How the PGA got there really isnt of any relevance to what I was saying.  They have it.  Im sure Jon will miss it.  Thats the whole point.  

I was saying it was the battle cry of the PGA as players began defecting to LIV.   this is fact. 

I agree, im sure it's going to bother Jon Rahm. I'm sure he also weighed out Ryder cup stuff since he cares a lot about that, and Seve and blah blah.  Which is why it was extra funny when Rory immediately changed his tune about Ryder Cup inclusion. 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

8 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

I was saying it was the battle cry of the PGA as players began defecting to LIV.   this is fact. 

I agree, im sure it's going to bother Jon Rahm. I'm sure he also weighed out Ryder cup stuff since he cares a lot about that, and Seve and blah blah.  Which is why it was extra funny when Rory immediately changed his tune about Ryder Cup inclusion. 

Oh sure.  But im not really doing this LIV vs PGA discussion.   Just pointing out that hearing any of these guys whine about anything is rather annoying.  As was Rory.  I dont want to hear about ranking points or sad to miss tournaments.   They knew the whole setup when they made the decision.  

I too, think at some point they will merge in some fashion.  

[listen2me 23 1,542]

I will actually pick on LIV fot a second here.  

Disclaimer: I dont care and never have that these guys chase paychecks.  Upset as a golf fan but these guys have every right to take the money.  

Varner dead last.  DEAD LAST.  Last week.  Leading this week.

Mito is +7 and round isnt over. 

What sort of wishy washy shlt is this? 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

5 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

I will actually pick on LIV fot a second here.  

Disclaimer: I dont care and never have that these guys chase paychecks.  Upset as a golf fan but these guys have every right to take the money.  

Varner dead last.  DEAD LAST.  Last week.  Leading this week.

Mito is +7 and round isnt over. 

What sort of wishy washy shlt is this? 

Just because I like to play devils advocate, if the PGA had their smaller, no cut, elevated field events every week (which was a direct reactionary move to LIV) there would be a much better chance of seeing someone win an event and then follow it up with a last place finish or vice versa.
 

Gary Woodland shot +8 today at tpc Scottsdale I guess he had brain surgery recently but he’s a top level player and former major champion

So what’s your point with Mito? He shot 6 over… and? Are you suggesting LIV events are not played on professional level courses and all players should be under par every event? 

[KSB2424 3,083]

The LIV Tour is unwatchable.  The PGA Tour has been watered down.  Many people who have limited time for following things move on to something else. Congratulations on killing professional golf.  Great job. Good effort. You cut off your nose, to spite your face. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

13 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Congratulations on killing professional golf.  Great job. Good effort. You cut off your nose, to spite your face. 

Agreed. The PGA tour should have thwarted this when they had the chance by contracting their players. 
 

[KSB2424 3,083]

10 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Agreed. The PGA tour should have thwarted this when they had the chance by contracting their players. 
 

It’s not even an LIV vs PGA…man.  Once you get past that one realizes it’s a net negative for golf.  But do your thing. We slow down to look at the train wrecks. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

1 hour ago, KSB2424 said:

It’s not even an LIV vs PGA…man.  Once you get past that one realizes it’s a net negative for golf.  But do your thing. We slow down to look at the train wrecks. 

Oh stop. You say professional golf has been killed, and it’s obviously because of LIV. So how is it not a LIV vs PGA thing?  

you're upset that someone challenged the PGAs mode of operation and it didn’t fail before it began. 
 

I don’t love the division in golf but I do laugh at the PGA die hards who think all the blame lies with LIV Golf. 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

Gooch the latest whining goober.

[Fumbleweed 426]

2 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

Gooch the latest whining goober.

I have no problem with Gooch saying he should have been invited to the Masters. I have a big problem with him claiming the winner will be illegitimate because he's not there. Coming out of the mouth of someone who's never finished top ten in a major, he sounds like a complete idiot. 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

Just now, Fumbleweed said:

I have no problem with Gooch saying he should have been invited to the Masters. I have a big problem with him claiming the winner will be illegitimate because he's not there. Coming out of the mouth of someone who's never finished top ten in a major, he sounds like a complete idiot. 

Total salt.  Yes he has zero top 10s and 2 top 20s in majors.  So thats rich.  

Oh he can say whatever he wants.  Im sure hes disappointed.   Its just hilarious that these guys knew the down and distance, made a choice, now we hear moaning.  

Niem went out and played in thr aussie open and pga aussie.  He was proactive.   Gooch wasnt.  

We can argue about ranking points all day.  I don't nessarily disagree that something has to be done.  But what if my local HS football team broke off for a different league with a few other schools with a different format?  Then wanted into the playoffs and state tourny?  No?  What do you mean no?  This team is good!   

No other tour has their setup.  So thry break away then want the majors and OWGR committee to adapt to them.  How full of yourself do you have to be?  

Gooch wants credit for LIV wins.  Yet says majors may be illegitimate if a handful or alright players dont play.  So whats he saying?  His wins are illegitimate on LIV?  Hes literally trashing himself.  

What a goofball

[listen2me 23 1,542]

He acts like the Masters has always used invites on the next 3 ranked guys.  

Delusional?  Yes.  

[BeachGuy23 512]

I really hope these LIV jackoffs go down in flames.  They all jumped purely for the money and they knew they'd be ostracized from normal golf.

Screw them.

And how many LIV golfers are really top 30 anymore?  Maybe 5?

[listen2me 23 1,542]

4 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

I really hope these LIV jackoffs go down in flames.  They all jumped purely for the money and they knew they'd be ostracized from normal golf.

Screw them.

And how many LIV golfers are really top 30 anymore?  Maybe 5?

Not to you.  But ill say this again for guys like WW who want to argue LIV vs PGA.  I dont care what these golfers chose.  Take the money, itd be hard not to.  Make your choice, thats not my business.  I really dont care to hear you bltch and moan when you knew the down and distance.   They all knew this.  Gooch took maybe the biggest chance along with Niemann.  

Boo hoo.  Augusta didnt allow women to play not that long ago.  Its fairly inclusive.  They had 3 "at large" picks.  Gooch wasnt one.  Go cry.   

[BeachGuy23 512]

1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

Not to you.  But ill say this again for guys like WW who want to argue LIV vs PGA.  I dont care what these golfers chose.  Take the money, itd be hard not to.  Make your choice, thats not my business.  I really dont care to hear you bltch and moan when you knew the down and distance.   They all knew this.  Gooch took maybe the biggest chance along with Niemann.  

Boo hoo.  Augusta didnt allow women to play not that long ago.  Its fairly inclusive.  They had 2 "at large" picks.  Gooch wasnt one.  Go cry.   

Agree 100%.  These guys knew the deal and took the money anyway.  Enjoy the cash, play your little minor league tour, and STFU.

[listen2me 23 1,542]

You can sense the level of saltiness when he singles out Rory and says a win from  him wouldnt mean as much with Gooch Varner Mito and a cast of other okay golfers.  He honestly thinks hes a bigger deal than he is.  Like 20% of the LIV field is playing.   Wtf more do you want?

[listen2me 23 1,542]

2 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

Agree 100%.  These guys knew the deal and took the money anyway.  Enjoy the cash, play your little minor league tour, and STFU.

Its one thing if they were blindsided.   But all the talk was who could go to majors.  How were ranking pts going to be distributed.  At best it was a total unknown.  All this stuff was known.  Oh a roll of thr dice didnt shake your way?  Cry some more.  

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

15 hours ago, BeachGuy23 said:

I really hope these LIV jackoffs go down in flames.  They all jumped purely for the money and they knew they'd be ostracized from normal golf.

Screw them.

And how many LIV golfers are really top 30 anymore?  Maybe 5?

Short sighted and uninformed post.

LIV golf in general is a smaller league by design. They are or have been interested in soccer style relegation, I think. You'll never see 100+ golfers in an event like you do on the PGA.  5 stars such as Rahm, Cam Smith, DJ, Brooks, Bryson etc is the equivalent of 10-15 PGA stars. 

Plus, without OWGR points, it's hard for them to maintain top 30 status without winning a major now. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

15 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

Not to you.  But ill say this again for guys like WW who want to argue LIV vs PGA.  I dont care what these golfers chose.  Take the money, itd be hard not to.  Make your choice, thats not my business.  I really dont care to hear you bltch and moan when you knew the down and distance.   They all knew this.  Gooch took maybe the biggest chance along with Niemann.  

Boo hoo.  Augusta didnt allow women to play not that long ago.  Its fairly inclusive.  They had 3 "at large" picks.  Gooch wasnt one.  Go cry.   

I don't agree with Gooch crying. He is a fringe guy at best. His narrative does hold some merit, it just loses that merit because it's coming from him. 

You have to understand I dont have a horse in the LIV vs PGA thing. I'm just not going to pretend the landscape of current golf is not driven by LIV vs PGA. It 100% is. And my personal feeling is that the PGA dropped the ball and allowed this all to get to the point that it's at. 

I agree with you when it comes to saying the LIV guys made their choice. What I sort of disagree about is the notion that they can't comment, or lobby for something that almost every other golf tour in the world has access to.  world ranking points and a clear path to play in the biggest events in the sport. If not for the spite of the PGA/ R&A etc, those paths would be open. 

The PGA is acting based on hurt feels. They would never try to block any other golf tour or league from accumulating OWGR points. Just LIV because it's the first thing that has come along to threaten their monopoly on the sport. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

16 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

You can sense the level of saltiness when he singles out Rory and says a win from  him wouldnt mean as much with Gooch Varner Mito and a cast of other okay golfers.  He honestly thinks hes a bigger deal than he is.  Like 20% of the LIV field is playing.   Wtf more do you want?

again, agreed. Gooch is an example of someone who greatly benefitted from going to LIV where he had less overall competition. He's not really the barometer these days now that LIV has an actual cast of premier golfers on their roster. 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

On 2/28/2024 at 9:55 AM, WhiteWonder said:

again, agreed. Gooch is an example of someone who greatly benefitted from going to LIV where he had less overall competition. He's not really the barometer these days now that LIV has an actual cast of premier golfers on their roster. 

I just say this stuff because they all knew the down and distance.  Yet complain when he hasn't been changed in their favor.....yet.  They knew the dynamics.  So why moan now?  

Guys can comment on whatever.  But they look like whiners.  

PGA isn't acting out of feelers.  They are acting out of business and protecting their spot.  Like any organization would.  LIV is a threat because they poached top guys off with blank checks.  Yes, I will agree that they see LIV as a threat.  They are acting on business.   Not feelers.  

So if my HS football team broke away with other schools for a mini league and they changed the time and some of the rules.  But when state playoff football came around they wanted in thr tourny.....and thr state said um no.  What would the team say?  But we are good!  How can you do that???  Tour staye championship isnt legit!   You guys have to adjust to us!

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

40 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I just say this stuff because they all knew the down and distance.  Yet complain when he hasn't been changed in their favor.....yet.  They knew the dynamics.  So why moan now?  

Guys can comment on whatever.  But they look like whiners.  

PGA isn't acting out of feelers.  They are acting out of business and protecting their spot.  Like any organization would.  LIV is a threat because they poached top guys off with blank checks.  Yes, I will agree that they see LIV as a threat.  They are acting on business.   Not feelers.  

So if my HS football team broke away with other schools for a mini league and they changed the time and some of the rules.  But when state playoff football came around they wanted in thr tourny.....and thr state said um no.  What would the team say?  But we are good!  How can you do that???  Tour staye championship isnt legit!   You guys have to adjust to us!

So the main difference with your football example is that the state makes the rules and is the main governing body…. The PGA doesn’t make the rules when it comes to ability to play in the majors or in determining who can earn world rankings points. 

what I’ve talked about from the very beginning is the PGA being hypocritical because they never banned golfers from competing in events on other tours before. They never lobbied the majors to exclude golfers who mainly play on other tours etc because the PGA was the one poaching the talent. The biggest euro stars would eventually move to the US and play a full PGA schedule, for example. They are doing it with LIV because it’s the first time they feel threatened (even though LIV has never said their golfers can’t play in other events). So the banning of players was pretty big feelers. Sure there are some guys who would never play any PGA events but there are also plenty who would.  They watered down a lot of their own events out of spite. 
 

A lot of people cling to “these guys can’t have their cake and eat it too” type argument but, why not? Just because another golf league formed and their business model includes contracting talent? Someone like Rory for example was always able to compete for the fedex cup AND the race to Dubai  

[listen2me 23 1,542]

The 1st paragraph is true.  But is the PGA saying who can play?   The Masters can do what it wants.  I could be ignorant to this, but does the PGA directly control the OWGR committee?  Whos job is it to figure out how to assign LIV its points for rankings?

[listen2me 23 1,542]

What if the Saudis bicker and start another league off LIV and some guy offers more (probably wouldnt be a competition over there all government funded) but what if.  Now thry have their 12 man friday night golf.  1 round.  Ties are back side acore.  Those ties get into the playoff.  Then lets assign those guys points.  

Im sure they will eventually get some points.  Or something will merge.  But the arrogance of leaving, knowing these questions were real, then pouting in its very early stages.....is a bit focking goofy.  Its what year 2?  Thats goofy...

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

3 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

The 1st paragraph is true.  But is the PGA saying who can play?   The Masters can do what it wants.  I could be ignorant to this, but does the PGA directly control the OWGR committee?  Whos job is it to figure out how to assign LIV its points for rankings?

No. The PGA tour has no say over the masters, or the majors. Even the pga of America (pga championship) is not the same as the pga tour. They have no say in world ranking points being distributed (I’m sure they have a great deal of influence) but they did lobby to have LIV players banned from all the majors, iirc. That was kind of my point. “Feelers”. 
 

I do agree that those who chose to sign with LIV should not be complaining. But they also have every right to lobby themselves for world ranking points. Most other golf tours get them. It’s a world ranking system. 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

19 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

No. The PGA tour has no say over the masters, or the majors. Even the pga of America (pga championship) is not the same as the pga tour. They have no say in world ranking points being distributed (I’m sure they have a great deal of influence) but they did lobby to have LIV players banned from all the majors, iirc. That was kind of my point. “Feelers”. 
 

I do agree that those who chose to sign with LIV should not be complaining. But they also have every right to lobby themselves for world ranking points. Most other golf tours get them. It’s a world ranking system. 

I can see how they would lobby for them.  

Being butt hurt about things you knew about is whiney.   

Then he just makes himself look like a fool saying some of thr best players when hes talking about himself.  Like 20% of LIVs roster is in the Masters.  Lets relax.  

[listen2me 23 1,542]

And whos to soley blame the PGA for the Masters?   Its the focking Masters.  Its their call.  You didn't get the invite, Niem did.  Their choice.   The Jap did then the good Euro.   

Mike Block best major finish 15

Gooch best major finish 14

We can argue how they should go about awarding points.  But to me thats not thr point.  Thr point is Gooch is a goober.   They arent even 2 years into the tour league whatever you call it.  

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

Gooch is a tool. Pretty sure there was a reason he’s not on DJs LIV team anymore. 
 

I think most of them blame the PGA/R&A because of the bans. Without the bans, they would be able to play in events that do currently award OWGR points. Again, they absolutely knew what they signed up for. I don’t agree with the bans, I think it’s childish and reactionary, but these guys were well aware they would be banned. 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

On 2/7/2024 at 1:27 PM, listen2me 23 said:

Rahm says missing certain events especially those close to home is emotional for him.  

Take your money and shut your mouth goofball.  

Also, Saudis threaten to imprison bankers who cooperate with the US probe of the merger.  

I told ya Rahm was a whiner.  

Hes pretty brand new to LIV and already wants to change its setup.  Lol.  

All he does is bltch and moan.  

Everyone is fine with your decision, Jon.  Are you?  Doesn't look like it.  

[supermike80 1,286]

The only guy from the LIV I wish was still on the PGA tour is Bryson.   He seems like a cool guy.   Oh well.  Money talks