Sanctuary cities complain about ‘onslaught’ of illegal migrants

[Horseman 2,469]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Lol. Her family is from Nebraska- Grand Island I think. Again if she was illegal I wouldn’t hide it. Lol. 

The wife that was molested in high school, is an alcoholic and has a heart condition?  

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

Just now, Horseman said:

The wife that was molested in high school, is an alcoholic and has a heart condition?  

You have a very good memory. Yes. Except she is a recovering alcoholic. Just celebrated her 6th year of sobriety. I’m very proud of her. 

[Fireballer 2,642]

11 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sure. First off I wasn’t handed anything from my dad or anyone else. I worked from the ground up. I have had good fortune in my life but I’ve also worked very hard. I’m a huge believer in capitalism. 
Second my wife was born in Canoga Park. But if she had been illegal, I wouldn’t have been ashamed of it. My grandparents were illegal, sneaking over the Russian border in Vienna to escape the Communists. Very proud of that too. 
 

I hire migrant workers to perform menial tasks on the properties I manage. They may be illegal, some of them. I have no idea and I don’t really care. I pay them well in cash. 

So tell us again who is covering these "migrants" if theyre in jured working for u

[jerryskids 6,813]

19 hours ago, wiffleball said:

Like with a big door that stretches from El Paso to Baja right?  We could install a deadbolt the size of a redwood tree.

We are working towards sustained nuclear fusion, harnessing the power of the sun, but keeping a family from walking into the country is beyond our technical aspirations?  

And before somebody says "you can never stop them all," that is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.  It's like saying "you can never stop all murders so let's not try to stop any."

19 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Long term it’s no solution. First off most illegals don’t come here over the border from Mexico; they come by legal means and simply overstay their welcome. Second, of the millions who DO come from Mexico, you can’t keep them there or send too many back because an unstable Mexico is a much bigger threat to our national security than any amount of illegal immigrants. It’s like putting a lid on a pot of boiling water and trying to pretend it’s under control. It isn’t. 
 

Again, you can’t wish this away. And you can’t use force to make it go away. Real solutions are going to have to involve a massive immigration reform, and it’s going to have to include taking a LOT more people in legally, not less, and giving amnesty to those already here. You guys need to realize this. 

One fault with this analysis is that it presumes people will continue to stream into Mexico to get to the US if we make it almost impossible to do so.  Heck, the difference in behaviors given the policies of different recent presidents clearly shows that incentives motivate people.

[jerryskids 6,813]

33 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

So tell us again who is covering these "migrants" if theyre in jured working for u

Tim supports a strong socialized tax-driven support system to provide medical care to all people here... so he doesn't have to and can avoid taxes by paying cash under the table.  It is the Leftist way.   

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

Just now, jerryskids said:

Tim supports a strong socialized tax-driven support system to provide medical care to all people here... so he doesn't have to and can avoid taxes by paying cash under the table.  It is the Leftist way.   

This is wrong. I was opposed to Obamacare because I saw that it would inevitably lead to socialized medicine. I believe in the free market. 

But I don’t believe in it unequivocally. I want the best and most profitable solution always. 

[Fireballer 2,642]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

This is wrong. I was opposed to Obamacare because I saw that it would inevitably lead to socialized medicine. I believe in the free market. 

But I don’t believe in it unequivocally. I want the best and most profitable solution always. 

So who pays for workers injured while working for you?  I mean, you follow OSHA reporting too, right?

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

4 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

We are working towards sustained nuclear fusion, harnessing the power of the sun, but keeping a family from walking into the country is beyond our technical aspirations?  

And before somebody says "you can never stop them all," that is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.  It's like saying "you can never stop all murders so let's not try to stop any."

One fault with this analysis is that it presumes people will continue to stream into Mexico to get to the US if we make it almost impossible to do so.  Heck, the difference in behaviors given the policies of different recent presidents clearly shows that incentives motivate people.

Of course if you’re willing to clamp down, at great humanitarian cost, you can temporarily slow down the flow. Which is what Trump did. You can’t stop the flow and in the long run you can’t even slow it down. When the levee breaks…

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

Just now, Fireballer said:

So who pays for workers injured while working for you?  I mean, you follow OSHA reporting too, right?

Third time you asked the same question. 
 

The people who I pay cash to are independent contractors. So long as I don’t pay them $600 I don’t even have to report it. They work at maximum a couple of hours so it never reaches the $600 threshold. I don’t break the law. If they get injured I have no idea what happens. I imagine my property insurance would get involved though I don’t know. It’s never come up. 

[Fireballer 2,642]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Third time you asked the same question. 
 

The people who I pay cash to are independent contractors. So long as I don’t pay them $600 I don’t even have to report it. They work at maximum a couple of hours so it never reaches the $600 threshold. I don’t break the law. If they get injured I have no idea what happens. I imagine my property insurance would get involved though I don’t know. It’s never come up. 

So you dont know if theyre illegal, but you do know that they are independent contractors?  Got it.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

1 minute ago, Fireballer said:

So you dont know if theyre illegal, but you do know that they are independent contractors?  Got it.

He's Sgt Schultz from Hogan's Heros.  He sees nothing, nothing.

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

2 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

So you dont know if theyre illegal, but you do know that they are independent contractors?  Got it.

I treat them as independent contractors because the law tells me I can. 

[jerryskids 6,813]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Of course if you’re willing to clamp down, at great humanitarian cost, you can temporarily slow down the flow. Which is what Trump did. You can’t stop the flow and in the long run you can’t even slow it down. When the levee breaks…

Do you have any data to support this?  Because my assertion is exactly the opposite, and is supported by recent observation of basic human behavior:  remove incentives and it reduces the behaviors.

[Fireballer 2,642]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I treat them as independent contractors because the law tells me I can. 

Keep digging bro

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I treat them as independent contractors because the law tells me I can. 

And here we thought it was disingenuous justification of economic self-interest as you take advantage of their economic situation.  Silly us. Glad you set us straight.  

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

Just now, Fireballer said:

Keep digging bro

Digging what? You keep trying to gotcha me as if I’ve done something wrong. I haven’t. But even if I hired illegals full time under the table I wouldn’t be ashamed of it. the only reason I don’t do it now is because I don’t want to break the law. But is it morally wrong? Of course not. It’s a form of capitalism. 

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

And here we thought it was disingenuous justification of economic self-interest as you take advantage of their economic situation.  Silly us. Glad you set us straight.  

Boy you sound like a Marxist with this tripe. Do I really have to explain Capitalism 101 to you? 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Digging what? You keep trying to gotcha me as if I’ve done something wrong. I haven’t. But even if I hired illegals full time under the table I wouldn’t be ashamed of it. the only reason I don’t do it now is because I don’t want to break the law. But is it morally wrong? Of course not. It’s a form of capitalism. 

As was slavery.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Boy you sound like a Marxist with this tripe. Do I really have to explain Capitalism 101 to you? 

You are welcome to take a run at it.

[Fireballer 2,642]

12 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I hire migrant workers to perform menial tasks on the properties I manage. They may be illegal, some of them. 

You should probably edit this to say independent contractor.  And good luck with your property insursnce covering your worker who isnt a real contractor, but your employee

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

Just now, Engorgeous George said:

As was slavery.

No. And I feel sorry for you for making such an ignorant comment. 
 

The key to capitalism is the freedom of each side to enter into a contract. Slavery is the exact opposite. 

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

Just now, Fireballer said:

You should probably edit this to say independent contractor

No. Migrant worker is fine. 

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

You are welcome to take a run at it.

Well since you just asserted that slavery is part of capitalism, I believe my efforts would be in vain in your case. 

[Fireballer 2,642]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

No. Migrant worker is fine. 

Well, at least ypuve confirmed youre a piece of shat without actually telling us.  Congrats.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

No. And I feel sorry for you for making such an ignorant comment. 
 

The key to capitalism is the freedom of each side to enter into a contract. Slavery is the exact opposite. 

Economic desperation is not tantamont to freedom when it comes to contracting.  Is the disparity of power the exact equivilent of slavery, of course not, but the ignorance here sir is yours or anybody who buys your self justification.  Fortunately none to few do.  I doubt you even do, though you need to to avoid the crushing cognitive dissonance of your position.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well since you just asserted that slavery is part of capitalism, I believe my efforts would be in vain in your case. 

Perhaps then you should not have made the offer.

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

Just now, Fireballer said:

Well, at least ypuve confirmed youre a piece of shat without actually telling us.  Congrats.

Second time you’ve called me that. 

While I do enjoy the freedom from censorship in this forum as compared to Footballguys, I have to say that there are a lot of folks here who abuse that freedom to simply insult others- not intelligent or funny insults, which can at times be entertaining to read, but dumb, ugly insults like “you’re a POS”. Adds nothing to the conversation and only demonstrates the inability of the person writing it to engage in intelligent discourse. But carry on. 

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Economic desperation is not tantamont to freedom when it comes to contracting.  Is the disparity of power the exact equivilent of slavery, of course not, but the ignorance here sir is yours or anybody who buys your self justification.  Fortunately none to few do.  I doubt you even do, though you need to to avoid the crushing cognitive dissonance of your position.

Better. But still Marxist. It’s the Bernie Sanders types who consistently make the argument that economic desperation is the equivalent of slavery. You’re welcome to take that stance but I strongly disagree with it. In a capitalist society I seek services competently offered for the lowest possible price. I don’t take into account the economic circumstances of those who freely offer me services; to do so would be a betrayal to all those who depend on me financially. To reject this is to live in a dream world (which the Bernie and AOC types do.) 

[Fireballer 2,642]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Second time you’ve called me that. 

While I do enjoy the freedom from censorship in this forum as compared to Footballguys, I have to say that there are a lot of folks here who abuse that freedom to simply insult others- not intelligent or funny insults, which can at times be entertaining to read, but dumb, ugly insults like “you’re a POS”. Adds nothing to the conversation and only demonstrates the inability of the person writing it to engage in intelligent discourse. But carry on. 

Youve told us enough to conclude that you knowingly use illegal labor to ypur monetary advantage.  Youre a POS.

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

4 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Youve told us enough to conclude that you knowingly use illegal labor to ypur monetary advantage.  Youre a POS.

You’re entitled to your opinion, as insipid as it is. 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Better. But still Marxist. It’s the Bernie Sanders types who consistently make the argument that economic desperation is the equivalent of slavery. You’re welcome to take that stance but I strongly disagree with it. In a capitalist society I seek services competently offered for the lowest possible price. I don’t take into account the economic circumstances of those who freely offer me services; to do so would be a betrayal to all those who depend on me financially. To reject this is to live in a dream world (which the Bernie and AOC types do.) 

You mistake me.  I am not advocating for any posture, I am examining your postures, your justifications for your self serving exploitation of the persons of unconfirmed though nearly certain status.

 

I find it funny that you are fast tracking to a defense of capitalism which if left unfettered would lead to the world Upton Sinclair excoriated. But whatever.

[Reality 3,121]

8 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Youve told us enough to conclude that you knowingly use illegal labor to ypur monetary advantage.  Youre a POS.

Hard to argue otherwise. He pulled the curtain back and it ain't pretty. None of this is his problem and he benefits from the cheap labor. He also seems proud of it, unreal.

His illegal immigration stance now makes all the sense in the world, for him. Not great for our country as a whole, obviously. 

This dude is literally the standard for being a modern day liberal.

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

Just now, Engorgeous George said:

You mistake me.  I am not advocating for any posture, I am examining your postures, your justifications for your self serving exploitation of the persons of unconfirmed though nearly certain status.

 

I find it funny that you are fast tracking to a defense of capitalism which if left unfettered would lead to the world Upton Sinclair excoriated. Biut whatever.

I don’t believe in unfettered capitalism. I’m an FDR New Deal capitalist. I believe in a safety net to help the disadvantaged. But I don’t believe in Marxism. 
 

I dispute that I am exploiting anyone. 

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

1 minute ago, Reality said:

Hard to argue otherwise. He pulled the curtain back and it ain't pretty. None of this is his problem and he benefits from the cheap labor. He also seems proud of it, unreal.

His illegal immigration stance now makes all the sense in the world, for him. Not great for our country as a whole, obviously. 

This dude is literally the standard for being a modern day liberal.

Doesn’t all of society benefit from the cheap labor of illegal immigrants? Go to any restaurant and the bus boys are illegal, most of them. The produce you buy at the supermarket was picked by illegals. You don’t think you benefit in terms of the price of practically everything you consume? Get real. 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t believe in unfettered capitalism. I’m an FDR New Deal capitalist. I believe in a safety net to help the disadvantaged. But I don’t believe in Marxism. 
 

I dispute that I am exploiting anyone. 

That is clear.  It is self-deluded, but clear.You do not want to view yourself for who you are.  I, of couse, have the exact same fault.

[Strike 5,563]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t believe in unfettered capitalism. I’m an FDR New Deal capitalist. I believe in a safety net to help the disadvantaged. But I don’t believe in Marxism. 
 

I dispute that I am exploiting anyone. 

Nice rationalizations

[Hardcore troubadour 15,472]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Doesn’t all of society benefit from the cheap labor of illegal immigrants? Go to any restaurant and the bus boys are illegal, most of them. The produce you buy at the supermarket was picked by illegals. You don’t think you benefit in terms of the price of practically everything you consume? Get real. 

And my taxes? And services? I guess illegals don’t factor in there. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,472]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t believe in unfettered capitalism. I’m an FDR New Deal capitalist. I believe in a safety net to help the disadvantaged. But I don’t believe in Marxism. 
 

I dispute that I am exploiting anyone. 

But are illegals being exploited? If you aren’t doing it it’s not happening?

[crackattack 520]

Exploitation in the guise of free market capitalism.

[The Real timschochet 6,807]

3 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

But are illegals being exploited? If you aren’t doing it it’s not happening?

Some illegals are certainly being exploited. The solution, of course, is to legalize them.