Police office deaths rise as the black population rises.

[jerryskids 6,846]

31 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I think you’re absolutely right that the issues you named are important factors. But when it comes to violence we have to also include poverty and despair. People of goodwill have strong disagreements about both the causes and solutions to these ongoing problems. 
 

However this thread was started with a different purpose in mind: to blame the violence on the racial identity of those who perpetrate it. I don’t think anyone who holds that POV has good will. I think it’s both demonstrably false and disgusting. 

You don't solve poverty without a dedication to the types of qualities I listed.  Those qualities may not be sufficient, but they are required, at least on a macro cultural scale.

[Shooter McGavin 618]

5 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Which part? Yes, if you set aside statistics I guess you're right.

Stats are not scientific proof.  Actually there is no such thing as scientific proof.  You didn't go to college, did you?

[The Real timschochet 6,861]

Just now, jerryskids said:

You don't solve poverty without a dedication to the types of qualities I listed.  Those qualities may not be sufficient, but they are required, at least on a macro cultural scale.

I don’t disagree. How can we encourage these values? 
 

I also want to add that in recent years drugs like fentanyl are changing the dynamics and making everything far worse. 

[iam90sbaby 2,621]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Stats are not scientific proof.  Actually there is no such thing as scientific proof.  You didn't go to college, did you?

The only time I mentioned the word science is when I was mocking Tim. I gave you statistics which a reasonable person could only draw one conclusion. And yeah I did, paid in full by my dad, no loan.

[The Real timschochet 6,861]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Stats are not scientific proof.  Actually there is no such thing as scientific proof.  You didn't go to college, did you?

University of KKK? 

[Shooter McGavin 618]

2 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Yeah okay, skip the opinions and get to the data. Read the entire article, ffs.

I read the entire article.  The data is the data.  It's up to a person to interpret the data and draw conclusions.

The one piece that you missed is the wealthiest of blacks are in line with the wealthiest of whites.

The conclusion the author draws is that more blacks go to prison due to racism.

But there is more data that we need.  Things like % of people that commit crimes.  If they commit crime at the same %, but more blacks go to jail, then that's racism.

[The Real timschochet 6,861]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

I read the entire article.  The data is the data.  It's up to a person to interpret the data and draw conclusions.

The one piece that you missed is the wealthiest of blacks are in line with the wealthiest of whites.

The conclusion the author draws is that more blacks go to prison due to racism.

But there is more data that we need.  Things like % of people that commit crimes.  If they commit crime at the same %, but more blacks go to jail, then that's racism.

I think they receive tougher sentences as well. I e read that before in many places.

 

Every black parent in America, no matter what their level of wealth, has to have the “talk” with their kids about what to do when they are stopped by a police officer, often for no good reason. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

19 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

He's gone a step further to deny that poverty even exists.

Very little of it in the US. It’s a great country. That’s why people that live in actual poverty risks their lives, and some lost them, to get here. 

[iam90sbaby 2,621]

39 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s the culture. 

Nah, it's whities fault.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

Income inequality is not poverty.

[Shooter McGavin 618]

https://blog.oup.com/2021/04/the-warrior-gene-blaming-genetics-for-bad-behavior/

The court’s decision means that a mutation in a single gene (MAOA) can’t be blamed for violent acts, and since no one has found a mutation in any of the 23,000 other genes in the human genome that causes violence, it’s now pretty certain that there no warrior genes. But there is a possibility that we can blame someone’s genetic constitution in aggregate.

[Alias Detective 1,409]

12 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Most are older that don't smoke, work or drink and aren't in the best health.

That’s sad their children are losers. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

Lack of education is not poverty in the US. It’s available to all. 

[iam90sbaby 2,621]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

https://blog.oup.com/2021/04/the-warrior-gene-blaming-genetics-for-bad-behavior/

The court’s decision means that a mutation in a single gene (MAOA) can’t be blamed for violent acts, and since no one has found a mutation in any of the 23,000 other genes in the human genome that causes violence, it’s now pretty certain that there no warrior genes. But there is a possibility that we can blame someone’s genetic constitution in aggregate.

You guys will admit every genetic difference except mental ones. Insanity.

[avoiding injuries 1,595]

10 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Nah, it's whities fault.

Nah, it’s the police. 

[jerryskids 6,846]

51 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I think they receive tougher sentences as well. I e read that before in many places.

 

Every black parent in America, no matter what their level of wealth, has to have the “talk” with their kids about what to do when they are stopped by a police officer, often for no good reason. 

Or instead, play the following video, then focus on commitments to education, family, community, and personal responsibility.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,554]

2 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

If you are doing a serious analysis of crime, then you have to stop using the 13 pct number. Cut it in half when you factor in women don’t commit many murders. Then you have to factor in the elderly and children. What you’re left with is a small fraction of a minority that commit these murders.  But to address that would be racist. And they get away with it because of politics. Oh no, someone got stopped  by the police for two minutes.  Can’t have that in a crime ridden, violent area. So don’t stop anyone. 

You're right.  The number is around 4%.

[supermike80 1,931]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I think they receive tougher sentences as well. I e read that before in many places.

 

Every black parent in America, no matter what their level of wealth, has to have the “talk” with their kids about what to do when they are stopped by a police officer, often for no good reason. 

Oh good God.   Parents tell their kids about santa claus too, yet another fabrication.   They are doing this themselves because of a perpetuation of the victim mentality.   Pish posh

[Alias Detective 1,409]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I think you’re absolutely right that the issues you named are important factors. But when it comes to violence we have to also include poverty and despair. People of goodwill have strong disagreements about both the causes and solutions to these ongoing problems. 
 

However this thread was started with a different purpose in mind: to blame the violence on the racial identity of those who perpetrate it. I don’t think anyone who holds that POV has good will. I think it’s both demonstrably false and disgusting. 

to blame the violence on the racial identity of those who perpetrate it.

You are darn tootin I am.  I don’t find it a coincidence. Others do.

[The Real timschochet 6,861]

12 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

to blame the violence on the racial identity of those who perpetrate it.

You are darn tootin I am.  I don’t find it a coincidence. Others do.

I give you credit for admitting it. Many racists don’t. Beyond that I regard your views as pathetic, sad, and repugnant. 

[Alias Detective 1,409]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I give you credit for admitting it. Many racists don’t. Beyond that I regard your views as pathetic, sad, and repugnant. 

Oh well.  It my truth and just so you know, the white guy acting like the black man is more repugnant.  Chew on that tid bit Timmah.

[Shooter McGavin 618]

Looks like AD woke up on the wrong side of burning cross today.

What happened, did a black man scare you yesterday?

[Alias Detective 1,409]

2 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Looks like AD woke up on the wrong side of burning cross today.

What happened, did a black man scare you yesterday?

Oh please.  There are lots of people I don’t like.

[Shooter McGavin 618]

10 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

Oh please.  There are lots of people I don’t like.

Puerto Ricans?

[Alias Detective 1,409]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Puerto Ricans?

Not in my experience.

[RLLD 4,254]

What is fascinating is that this is a complete trolling of what we see done to suggest racism is inherent in our systems.  You take the logic that because X is true, then that means racism....and you flip it back on the people who use it to explain away bad actors....well done....

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

Cultural combined with a permissive CJS. 

[craftsman 1,045]

Least surprising thing ever. 

[iam90sbaby 2,621]

18 hours ago, jerryskids said:

https://medium.com/@joecarleton/why-nigerian-immigrants-are-the-most-successful-ethnic-group-in-the-u-s-23a7ea5a0832

The above is just an excerpt; the entire article is worth a read.  I have admittedly not further confirmed the data in the article, but I will say that my personal experience with successful black people is consistent with this trend.

So yeah, corporate banter.  

[jerryskids 6,846]

10 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

So yeah, corporate banter.  

I don't understand this response.  Care to explain?

[Strike 5,594]

18 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I also want to add that in recent years drugs like fentanyl are changing the dynamics and making everything far worse. 

And yet you continue to advocate for an open border. 

[The Real timschochet 6,861]

5 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I don't understand this response.  Care to explain?

Apparently he doesn’t want to, or simply can’t, accept the idea that a large group of black immigrants might be successful and law-abiding in this country. That would contradict his earlier racist assumption that blacks commit crime because they are black and for no other reasons. 

[The Real timschochet 6,861]

Just now, Strike said:

And yet you continue to advocate for an open border. 

No I don’t. Not sure if you’ve read my recent thoughts on this but fentanyl has forced me to change my mind about it. I’m still for increased immigration, and still for some sort of amnesty/legalization for those undocumented already here who aren’t violent criminals. But because of fentanyl we need to do something about the border. I’m open to suggestion. 

[Strike 5,594]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No I don’t. Not sure if you’ve read my recent thoughts on this but fentanyl has forced me to change my mind about it. I’m still for increased immigration, and still for some sort of amnesty/legalization for those undocumented already here who aren’t violent criminals. But because of fentanyl we need to do something about the border. I’m open to suggestion. 

Anything we'd suggest to you you'd reject.  That's the problem with libs.  They pretend they want to solve problems but don't like the solutions, andt don't have any better suggestions.  So we end up with the status quo.

[iam90sbaby 2,621]

14 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I don't understand this response.  Care to explain?

It's just corporate drivel that's based on nothing, in reality it's just cheap labor.  The article even implies Nigerian immigrants contribute more to the USA than Asians, that's bullsh!t.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/14/education-levels-of-u-s-immigrants-are-on-the-rise/

[The Real timschochet 6,861]

Just now, Strike said:

Anything we'd suggest to you you'd reject.  That's the problem with libs.  They pretend they want to solve problems but don't like the solutions, andt don't have any better suggestions.  So we end up with the status quo.

That’s not true for me. Come up with a way to secure the border and stop fentanyl without interfering with trade and I will support it. 

[Strike 5,594]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

That’s not true for me. Come up with a way to secure the border and stop fentanyl without interfering with trade and I will support it. 

Put up a wall.  We will still have points of entry.  You're good with that?

[Alias Detective 1,409]

31 minutes ago, Strike said:

Put up a wall.  We will still have points of entry.  You're good with that?

But but but.....

[The Real timschochet 6,861]

31 minutes ago, Strike said:

Put up a wall.  We will still have points of entry.  You're good with that?

Yes. Im not convinced it will work. But In wiling to try it if we can stop the flow of fentanyl. 

[jerryskids 6,846]

1 hour ago, iam90sbaby said:

It's just corporate drivel that's based on nothing, in reality it's just cheap labor.  The article even implies Nigerian immigrants contribute more to the USA than Asians, that's bullsh!t.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/14/education-levels-of-u-s-immigrants-are-on-the-rise/

No it doesn't; it says that Nigerians are a minutia, but per capita Nigerian-Americans are more educated than Asians.

Quote

Indeed, Nigerian-Americans have more post-graduate degrees than any other racial or ethnic groups. Albeit, they represent a minutia portion of the U.S. population, 37 percent of them hold a bachelor’s degree and 17 percent a master’s. 29 percent of Nigerian-Americans aged 25 and plus, have a graduate degree, compared to 11 percent of the US population. Nigerian accounts for less than 1 percent of the black population in the United States, yet, they make up nearly 25 percent of all Black students at Harvard Business School. It comes to no surprise that Nigerian-Americans’ achievements in the world of education top any other U.S. immigrant groups, including Asian-Americans. Today, a growing number of Nigerian-Americans are entrepreneurs, CEOs and founders of tech companies across the U.S. and abroad.

Like I initially said, I didn't confirm the data they quote and am open to it being wrong, but "corporate drivel based on nothing" isn't exactly a compelling rebuttal.

If your point is that they come on H1B visas and work for cheap, there may or may not be truth in that, but that is a separate discussion than the one we are having.

In my anecdotal experience, my radiation oncologist was of Nigerian descent, as was the engineering manager at my top customer.  I also had a nurse who told me she started as a geological engineer but decided she didn't like it and changed to nursing, which disappointed her family.  I doubt any of them were working for pennies on the dollar.

There is a lot we can learn from that article, including as W famously phrased, the dangers of the soft bigotry of low expectations:

Quote

High expectation tend to lead to higher results according to psychology

Modern-day cognitive psychology supports the notion that expectations can subconsciously and ubiquitously control children’s lives for better or worse. Dr. Meg Griga and Debra Hart from the University of Massachusetts, in their research, revealed that children whose parents and teachers expected them to attend college were more likely to do so.

By merely expressing words of encouragement through which expectations are camouflaged can go a long way. “Someday you will go to such, and such university like your mom did”…or encouraging said-child to take advance placement class “because it will look good on your college application”, they said, “represents subtle — or not so subtle message that permeates the academic and social experiences of college-bound youth”. Although, as a caveat, Nigerian parents are far from being subtle in expressing their expectations to their children. Preferably, they are clear, direct, and sometimes, opposing.

Unfortunately this is a multi-generational issue, and each subsequent generation becomes less patient and will settle for nothing short of an immediate fix, which is impossible.  So here we sit, with one group of people saying that all we need to do is throw just one more pile of money at black people to fix the problem, and another group saying they are fundamentally and for all time unfixable, and we accomplish nothing.