DeSantis and his stupid laws

[Dizkneelande 839]

Just now, dogcows said:

So black people don’t exist?

My god leftists are stupid people. Give me a list of things in the 1619 project that are historically accurate and then let’s compare them to things in the 1619 project that are complete crap. It’s falsified history and doesn’t belong in public classrooms. You go first. I won’t hold my breath. 

[Voltaire 4,562]

10 minutes ago, dogcows said:

 

Put the shoe on the other foot - another state blocking an AP European history class. I guarantee that would be called censorship immediately by the same people giving the thumbs up to this. At least they should stop pretending to care about censorship when they clearly don’t.

Some of us have long noticed how your side already does that.

 

[dogcows 1,029]

6 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Some of us have long noticed how your side already does that.

 

In what state is teaching European history blocked in schools?

[Voltaire 4,562]

11 minutes ago, dogcows said:

In what state is teaching European history blocked in schools?

Well, I'd remembered this from my high school days. Even then I was a nerd for contemporary news issues.

https://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/19/us/in-dispute-on-bias-stanford-is-likely-to-alter-western-culture-program.html

Then every now and again you get reminded that the issues persist:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/01/08/university-students-demand-philosophers-including-plato-kant/

Then one day you wake up and see George Washington murals are being painted over, Thomas Jefferson statues get toppled, Theodore Roosevelt statues are reomved, and CNN tells you that Mt. Rushmore is a monument to two slave owners on land stolen from native Americans. At that point, you realize that we've been extremely negligent in letting people with disturbing/warped historical views like Tim and others in this thread indoctrinate the youth and a pushback is in order.

Thus you see Florida moving to reverse the trend.

 

[Dizkneelande 839]

Lefties, please explain to me like I’m someone who would drive around alone in my car with a mask on, how teaching black kids that math is racist prepares them for college? How does that work exactly?

[RLLD 3,455]

34 minutes ago, dogcows said:

I agree. If I look at these reasons for blocking the course, they make no sense to me. Is it illegal to teach kids about BLM? It’s a movement that exists. There were some very historical situations they might need to learn about involving the movement. Reparations is something that’s been discussed for over a century. Now it’s off-limits to talk about? As you said, is it illegal to teach anything about Communism now? First, I see nothing in the law that even mentions Communism, and I feel like it would be pretty darn hard to cover world history without discussing it,

There is zero question that DeSantis and his people are doing this to demonize black people, especially any movement put together to draw attention to the ugly history of racial inequity and its lasting effects.

This is censorship, literally by the government. They didn’t send a takedown request to Twitter. They are using the power of the state of Florida to silence voices that conflict with the governing party’s worldview. But since many people agree with their conclusions, they don’t give a crap about the censorship. Same with banning of books about gay penguins. As long as it hurts black people or LGBTQ people, many are ok with as much censorship as the government can muster.

Put the shoe on the other foot - another state blocking an AP European history class. I guarantee that would be called censorship immediately by the same people giving the thumbs up to this. At least they should stop pretending to care about censorship when they clearly don’t.

Such a class as European history should not be mandatory. 
 

get rid of that as well

Replace it with civics class, start teaching these kids something useful 

[Voltaire 4,562]

15 minutes ago, dogcows said:

In what state is teaching European history blocked in schools?

https://img.i-scmp.com/cdn-cgi/image/fit=contain,width=1098,format=auto/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2020/06/12/71851bb2-aca2-11ea-bf1b-7541df8028ff_image_hires_195755.jpg?itok=IBg5Q_ZV&v=1591963083
 

This is why states like Florida are making moves to prevent people with your worldview from teaching there.

[Dizkneelande 839]

36 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

https://img.i-scmp.com/cdn-cgi/image/fit=contain,width=1098,format=auto/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2020/06/12/71851bb2-aca2-11ea-bf1b-7541df8028ff_image_hires_195755.jpg?itok=IBg5Q_ZV&v=1591963083
 

This is why states like Florida are making moves to prevent people with your worldview from teaching there.

Tim says it’s a travesty we don’t think it benefits society to be teaching young African Americans how to be resentful Marxists. 

[dogcows 1,029]

51 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Well, I'd remembered this from my high school days. Even then I was a nerd for contemporary news issues.

https://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/19/us/in-dispute-on-bias-stanford-is-likely-to-alter-western-culture-program.html

Then every now and again you get reminded that the issues persist:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/01/08/university-students-demand-philosophers-including-plato-kant/

Then one day you wake up and see George Washington murals are being painted over, Thomas Jefferson statues get toppled, Theodore Roosevelt statues are reomved, and CNN tells you that Mt. Rushmore is a monument to two slave owners on land stolen from native Americans. At that point, you realize that we've been extremely negligent in letting people with disturbing/warped historical views like Tim and others in this thread indoctrinate the youth and a pushback is in order.

Thus you see Florida moving to reverse the trend.

 

And I see zero examples here of European history being banned by the government. One of those stories isn’t even from America. FAIL.

Just people that disagree with you and express it openly. None of them censored anybody. You are failing to see that is my point. We don’t agree on everything. You might hate what those Stanford students believe. But they didn’t take over your state government and ban European history classes.

It is contrary to our constitution to use the government to impinge on free speech. You are so insistent that your speech is correct and that others’ speech is wrong that you’re willing to allow such censorship. If your ideas truly are superior, they should win in the “marketplace of ideas” I always hear right-wingers crowing about.

[dogcows 1,029]

50 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

https://img.i-scmp.com/cdn-cgi/image/fit=contain,width=1098,format=auto/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2020/06/12/71851bb2-aca2-11ea-bf1b-7541df8028ff_image_hires_195755.jpg?itok=IBg5Q_ZV&v=1591963083
 

This is why states like Florida are making moves to prevent people with your worldview from teaching there.

So, because somebody vandalized a statue, you ban the teaching of black history? 

I am shocked at how vehement many are to have the government censoring people. I guess as long as they’re censoring people and ideas you dislike, you’re ok with it. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

So, because somebody vandalized a statue, you ban the teaching of black history? 

I am shocked at how vehement many are to have the government censoring people. I guess as long as they’re censoring people and ideas you dislike, you’re ok with it. 

somebody?  You mean the entire democrat party?

 

[dogcows 1,029]

52 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Such a class as European history should not be mandatory. 
 

get rid of that as well

Replace it with civics class, start teaching these kids something useful 

This African American studies course is optional. But they are banning it.

Are you against the teaching of any history?

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

This African American studies course is optional. 

Somehow they keep overlooking this little fact. 

[dogcows 1,029]

Just now, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

somebody?  You mean the entire democrat party?

 

The entire Democratic Party spray-painted that statue? 

Oh you mean the censorship. I hear that a lot from right-wingers, but when asked to demonstrate how they are using the government to censor anybody, no examples are ever given. It’s always some whining that some college students shouted down Ben Shapiro at their campus, or vandalized something, or, or, or…. But it’s never actual government censorship. Meanwhile, right-wingers are literally using the government to censor others with book bans and laws stopping teachers from talking about homosexuality or black history, etc.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590]

4 minutes ago, dogcows said:

The entire Democratic Party spray-painted that statue? 

Oh you mean the censorship. I hear that a lot from right-wingers, but when asked to demonstrate how they are using the government to censor anybody, no examples are ever given. It’s always some whining that some college students shouted down Ben Shapiro at their campus, or vandalized something, or, or, or…. But it’s never actual government censorship. Meanwhile, right-wingers are literally using the government to censor others with book bans and laws stopping teachers from talking about homosexuality or black history, etc.

no I mean the DNC paid for and funded the destruction and removal of statues

so youre ok with 12 year olds seeing sexual acts and gay porn, got it

 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Somehow they keep overlooking this little fact. 

supporting gay hockey is optional too, look how things go when you option out

 

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

18 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

Tim says it’s a travesty we don’t think it benefits society to be teaching young African Americans how to be resentful Marxists. 

It’s interesting that you feel the need to put words in my mouth rather than argue against what I actually wrote. 
This course doesn’t teach students to be Marxist, resentful or otherwise. It exposes them to all sorts of ideas and arguments, some of which are from writers who happen to be Marxist. Also, the class is for students of all races, not just African-Americans. But it’s telling that you think only blacks would be interested in taking it. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

It’s interesting that you feel the need to put words in my mouth rather than argue against what I actually wrote. 
This course doesn’t teach students to be Marxist, resentful or otherwise. It exposes them to all sorts of ideas and arguments, some of which are from writers who happen to be Marxist. Also, the class is for students of all races, not just African-Americans. But it’s telling that you think only blacks would be interested in taking it. 

im sure the course would be rooted in BLM, hell there are still people that support that nonsense, and its quite often the educators

[dogcows 1,029]

 

 

3 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

supporting gay hockey is optional too, look how things go when you option out

 

Did anything bad happen to Provorov? Nope, and yet all you snowflakes are still crying about it.

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

1 hour ago, Dizkneelande said:

Lefties, please explain to me like I’m someone who would drive around alone in my car with a mask on, how teaching black kids that math is racist prepares them for college? How does that work exactly?

No reasonable person IMO is going to defend this. I think radical leftists make idiotic proposals all the time, mainly because they’re, well, radical leftists. and they’re idiots. 
 

I am most liberals are not radical leftists. We can laugh at the foolish notion that math is racism, and at the same time still condemn the Florida decision and speak out for academic freedom. There’s no contradiction. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

13 minutes ago, dogcows said:

This African American studies course is optional. But they are banning it.

Are you against the teaching of any history?

Someone is paying for it. Let them pay for it themselves and attend on their own time. No one is stopping them. You should start a go fund me page. 

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

3 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

im sure the course would be rooted in BLM, hell there are still people that support that nonsense, and its quite often the educators

I think you responded to the wrong post; I haven’t mentioned BLM in this thread. 
 

I would certainly expect that BLM will be taught about  in a class devoted to black studies, though I wouldn’t think it would come up until the final weeks of the school year: too much history to cover first. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

The US is 31st out of 79 developed countries in math. Math is hard. This crap is easy. Teach the crap.  I bet kids in India aren’t learning this useless garbage. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I think you responded to the wrong post; I haven’t mentioned BLM in this thread. 
 

I would certainly expect that BLM will be taught about  in a class devoted to black studies, though I wouldn’t think it would come up until the final weeks of the school year: too much history to cover first. 

I am sure there would be flags plastered to the wall

and no I quoted the right thing, in today's society, I am sure that black studies will be hijacked by BLM

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Someone is paying for it. Let them pay for it themselves and attend on their own time. No one is stopping them. You should start a go fund me page. 

So now it’s the expense of the course? That’s one reason Florida hasn’t offered yet (probably because their decision to ban the course, and the legal challenges they are sure to face over that decision, will end up costing the government there far more than allowing the course  ever would.) 

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

Just now, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

I am sure there would be flags plastered to the wall

and no I quoted the right thing, in today's society, I am sure that black studies will be hijacked by BLM

So now your objection is that some student in the class might see a BLM sign? Do you believe that there are Florida high school students unaware of this slogan? 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

So now your objection is that some student in the class might see a BLM sign? Do you believe that there are Florida high school students unaware of this slogan? 

no my point is you walk into a classroom with BLM signs you know the marxist propaganda is following.  You mentioned marxism

[craftsman 1,045]

1 hour ago, dogcows said:

I agree. If I look at these reasons for blocking the course, they make no sense to me. Is it illegal to teach kids about BLM? It’s a movement that exists. There were some very historical situations they might need to learn about involving the movement. Reparations is something that’s been discussed for over a century. Now it’s off-limits to talk about? As you said, is it illegal to teach anything about Communism now? First, I see nothing in the law that even mentions Communism, and I feel like it would be pretty darn hard to cover world history without discussing it,

There is zero question that DeSantis and his people are doing this to demonize black people, especially any movement put together to draw attention to the ugly history of racial inequity and its lasting effects.

This is censorship, literally by the government. They didn’t send a takedown request to Twitter. They are using the power of the state of Florida to silence voices that conflict with the governing party’s worldview. But since many people agree with their conclusions, they don’t give a crap about the censorship. Same with banning of books about gay penguins. As long as it hurts black people or LGBTQ people, many are ok with as much censorship as the government can muster.

Put the shoe on the other foot - another state blocking an AP European history class. I guarantee that would be called censorship immediately by the same people giving the thumbs up to this. At least they should stop pretending to care about censorship when they clearly don’t.

Yeah. Teach how BLM was/is a violent, law breaking organization whose founders ripped off the people of this country in the name of helping a group of people who refuse to help themselves.

Teach that communism is a failed form of evil government. Teach that LTBG is an organization  full of people who were abused as children and should be pitied but not taken seriously otherwise. 

Teach that liberals work hard to censor conservatives in any ways they can. 

Teach the truth about these groups or don't allow teaching them at all.

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The US is 31st out of 79 developed countries in math. Math is hard. This crap is easy. Teach the crap.  I bet kids in India aren’t learning this useless garbage. 

Again with the irrelevancies. THIS IS NOT A REQUIRED CLASS!!! It’s a college level AP elective class, designed for honors students. The kids taking this have no trouble with math or any other subjects. They are the best of the best, headed for university. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

So now it’s the expense of the course? That’s one reason Florida hasn’t offered yet (probably because their decision to ban the course, and the legal challenges they are sure to face over that decision, will end up costing the government there far more than allowing the course  ever would.) 

It’s the fact that people in Florida don’t want it. And those that do are free to teach it on their own time at their own expense. No one is stopping them. Teach it online. It’s a free country and elections have consequences.  

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

2 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

no my point is you walk into a classroom with BLM signs you know the marxist propaganda is following.  You mentioned marxism

I did. But I don’t agree with your premise. In fact, no offense but it’s pretty dumb. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Again with the irrelevancies. THIS IS NOT A REQUIRED CLASS!!! It’s a college level AP elective class, designed for honors students. The kids taking this have no trouble with math or any other subjects. They are the best of the best, headed for university. 

Right. And it’s not required to be taught either. The people have spoken. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I did. But I don’t agree with your premise. In fact, no offense but it’s pretty dumb. 

that BLM isn't Marxism?  Or that you believe the people who support BLM aren't extremists?

Obama was the main beginning for this Marxist agenda, started an entire movement

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s the fact that people in Florida don’t want it. And those that do are free to teach it on their own time at their own expense. No one is stopping them. Teach it online. It’s a free country and elections have consequences.  

What is taught in high school AP classes is not an issue that should be decided by the voting public. It should be decided by educators. 

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

Just now, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

that BLM isn't Marxism?  Or that you believe the people who support BLM aren't extremists?

 

Yes. Both of my daughters support BLM. They and their friends have all marched in peaceful protests following the murder of George Floyd. None of them are the least bit leftist or extremist. I believe this is true of the vast majority of Americans who support BLM. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

What is taught in high school AP classes is not an issue that should be decided by the voting public. It should be decided by educators. 

Well, that’s not the way it is. Go to private school.  No one is stopping them. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Yes. Both of my daughters support BLM. They and their friends have all marched in peaceful protests following the murder of George Floyd. None of them are the least bit leftist or extremist. I believe this is true of the vast majority of Americans who support BLM. 

ahh ok, so the uneducated people they thrive on, who support a movement without even knowing its roots.  The exact people they want

 

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Right. And it’s not required to be taught either. The people have spoken. 

You really don’t seem to understand what representative democracy is all about. Just because you vote for somebody that doesn’t mean you support all of their policies. 

[Dizkneelande 839]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Again with the irrelevancies. THIS IS NOT A REQUIRED CLASS!!! It’s a college level AP elective class, designed for honors students. The kids taking this have no trouble with math or any other subjects. They are the best of the best, headed for university. 

Bullsh!t. It started with this is just theory floated in small academic circles and is nowhere found in our public education system. Then it moved to its only taught in universities. Then it moved to well it’s only found in elite private schools. Now the defense is its an elective AP class. Tomorrow the leftist will be saying your 6 year old in pre-school needs to be taught to be an anti-racist you white privileged colonizer!!!

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

You really don’t seem to understand what representative democracy is all about. Just because you vote for somebody that doesn’t mean you support all of their policies. 

Like abortion?