DeSantis and his stupid laws

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

Just now, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

ahh ok, so the uneducated people they thrive on, who support a movement without even knowing its roots.  The exact people they want

 

The roots have nothing to do with it. I’ve been a lifelong supporter of the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU was started originally by two avowed Communists. I don’t care. I support what they fight for, most of the time, and I’m no Communist. Nor am I uneducated about their beginnings.

Stop trying to pigeonhole everything. We live in a nuanced world. 

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Like abortion? 

Sure. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

The roots have nothing to do with it. I’ve been a lifelong supporter of the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU was started originally by two avowed Communists. I don’t care. I support what they fight for, most of the time, and I’m no Communist. Nor am I uneducated about their beginnings.

Stop trying to pigeonhole everything. We live in a nuanced world. 

ahh the ACLU whats next the SPLC?  The Victim Brotherhood?

BLM is another terrorist organization that you support awesome

 

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

ahh the ACLU whats next the SPLC?  The Victim Brotherhood?

BLM is another terrorist organization that you support awesome

 

I do like the SPLC. No idea what the Victim Brotherhood is. And last I checked, I don’t support terrorism. 

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

The Southern Poverty Law Center correctly identifies the bigots and racists in our society. They do a great service for this country. I think they’re pretty awesome. 

[craftsman 1,045]

17 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Again with the irrelevancies. THIS IS NOT A REQUIRED CLASS!!! It’s a college level AP elective class, designed for honors students. The kids taking this have no trouble with math or any other subjects. They are the best of the best, headed for university. 

It's stupid to teach underage kids about a single race unless you are going to teach them how to stay out of their neighborhoods because of the propensity of violence in those cities. You know, information that will help the student. Then the next week teach the kids about the violent American Indians from the early days of European settlers to this country. Then teach the next week how various other races and cultures came to America and assimilated to Amercan ways because they wanted to be part of a great nation with no religious persecution. 

Oh wait, that's history class. .

They don't need another base history class in AP. Given the US scores in general studies in the world, offer up an AP class for tutoring underclassmen in general studies. But only if the kid taking the AP got straight A's in every class they had taken in high school. Else they can take an AP course in the class they didn't get an A in. Basically repeating the class. 

[craftsman 1,045]

12 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yes. Both of my daughters support BLM. They and their friends have all marched in peaceful protests following the murder of George Floyd. None of them are the least bit leftist or extremist. I believe this is true of the vast majority of Americans who support BLM. 

So your kids and their friends were all duped by the violent gang organization that stole their money and you are proud of that? Yikes. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I do like the SPLC. No idea what the Victim Brotherhood is. And last I checked, I don’t support terrorism. 

the SPLC labels everything a terrorist group that isnt a leftist extreme group, rooted in extreme racist propaganda

Victim Brotherhood is all these organizations tied together, blaming whitey for all of their failures

you support BLM you support Terror plain and simple

 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,590]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The Southern Poverty Law Center correctly identifies the bigots and racists in our society. They do a great service for this country. I think they’re pretty awesome. 

yep white people

people who say maybe you should look into the fact that 6/52 and 75% and get back to me, blacks were doing better til these organizations started this victim mentality

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The roots have nothing to do with it. I’ve been a lifelong supporter of the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU was started originally by two avowed Communists. I don’t care. I support what they fight for, most of the time, and I’m no Communist. Nor am I uneducated about their beginnings.

Stop trying to pigeonhole everything. We live in a nuanced world. 

George Soros owns the aclu now.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sure. 

Well then, just like I have to live with that, then the CRT people have to live with this. Elections have consequences. And it’s not like Desantis misled anyone about these subjects. And he won by a wide margin.  Woke is dying.  Sorry. It had its run. 

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

George Soros owns the aclu now.  

Then how come I don’t get any checks? 

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

14 minutes ago, craftsman said:

It's stupid to teach underage kids about a single race unless you are going to teach them how to stay out of their neighborhoods 

Craftsman’s class on black studies: stay out of black neighborhoods! 
 

Really nice. 

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

• 7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

  Well then, just like I have to live with that, then the CRT people have to live with this. Elections have consequences. And it’s not like Desantis misled anyone about these subjects. And he won by a wide margin.  Woke is dying.  Sorry. It had its run. 

  Long after you are gone, your children and grandchildren will be woke deep in their souls. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

• Long after you are gone, your children and grandchildren will be woke deep in their souls. 

No. You see, woke establishes and foments unfair treatment.  It can only last so long until people grow tired of being treated unfairly and blamed for things they played no role in.  It eats its own inevitability.  Equal is not fair.  

[craftsman 1,045]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Craftsman’s class on black studies: stay out of black neighborhoods! 
 

Really nice. 

Oh, you want to lie to underage kids?

Nice.

[jerryskids 5,206]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Appreciate you posting this. One of the criticisms lodged against Florida is that they provided no reasons when they banned the course. Now they have provided reasons, apparently in the last few hours. So any reasonable person would have to remove that criticism. Of course there is also the fact that Florida suggested to the media that the course was “too vague”; NOW they are complaining about the specifics of the course- this is a huge contradiction I noted earlier and it suggests that Florida banned the course first and then rushed quickly to find reasons to justify the decision. Which of course goes to their motivations. 
 

On to the specific reasons offered. Are they compelling? No doubt they will be to some here. But they’re not to me and not to anyone who values academic freedom. Let’s take the reparations issue as an example. The complaint is that no argument against reparations, in the form of literature is offered. Now I don’t believe in reparations. But it’s a political argument, and the students will be reading exactly that: an argument. They will not be reading science or math, which is presented as fact. Florida is pretending they are. Reparations is a very controversial issue and any good teacher would have a class discussion about it. And we have to assume that any AP honors teacher is going to be a good teacher. The real complaint is not that “both sides” aren’t presented; it’s that Florida doesn’t want this conversation happening in the first place. 

Some of the other complaints are even worse. Writings are objected to on the sole basis that the authors are Marxist. Using this absurd and dangerous logic, we could ban a wide number of books in school by authors that were openly or secretly Communists: including some of our best writers like Steinbeck, Hemingway, Fitzgerald, etc. This actually happened, forced by conservatives, during the McCarthy era. It’s depressing that Florida seems to want  to return to those days. 

I can’t repeat it enough: this is a travesty and an embarrassment. 

I think the fundamental disconnect here is your undying commitment to classical liberalism.  I believe that you honestly believe that there will be an honest exchange of ideas, both pro and con African Americans, in this course.  You believe that they will discuss the African complicit actions in the slave trade, and ongoing slavery; the decay of the black family in America since the Great Society; how CRT might shift the blame for failure from internal to external causes; how any black person who tries to get their community to own their problems is an Uncle Tom.

This in the face of the overwhelming fact that our education system is somewhere between far left and farther left.  None of the above is going to happen, Tim.  The class will be mostly about how awesome black culture is, and how much better it could be if they weren't held down by whitey.

I can envision a student writing a well-developed essay on the negatives of CRT, and getting a 5 out of 5 on the test.  Actually, no I can't.

And these are 16-17 year olds Tim.  They can't legally vote, drink, smoke, own most weapons.  The pre-frontal cortex of males doesn't fully develop until about 25.  They are still learning and impressionable.

 

[craftsman 1,045]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

• Long after you are gone, your children and grandchildren will be woke deep in their souls. 

Not everyone's kids are stupid. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Craftsman’s class on black studies: stay out of black neighborhoods! 
 

Really nice. 

Stay out of high crime neighborhoods.  No matter the occupants. 

[Dizkneelande 839]

22 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

the SPLC labels everything a terrorist group that isnt a leftist extreme group, rooted in extreme racist propaganda

Victim Brotherhood is all these organizations tied together, blaming whitey for all of their failures

you support BLM you support Terror plain and simple

 

This guy is a clown and should be laughed at. The SPLC said labeling Antifa a terrorist organization was a threat to civil liberties. 

[avoiding injuries 1,220]

Having your white kids march in a BLM protest is only slightly better than them having a sex change operation. 

[squistion 898]

36 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I do like the SPLC. No idea what the Victim Brotherhood is. And last I checked, I don’t support terrorism. 

I think The Victim Brotherhood is one of those Law & Order spinoff TV series. 

[BuckSwope 654]

2 hours ago, dogcows said:

I agree. If I look at these reasons for blocking the course, they make no sense to me. Is it illegal to teach kids about BLM? It’s a movement that exists. There were some very historical situations they might need to learn about involving the movement. Reparations is something that’s been discussed for over a century. Now it’s off-limits to talk about? As you said, is it illegal to teach anything about Communism now? First, I see nothing in the law that even mentions Communism, and I feel like it would be pretty darn hard to cover world history without discussing it,

There is zero question that DeSantis and his people are doing this to demonize black people, especially any movement put together to draw attention to the ugly history of racial inequity and its lasting effects.

This is censorship, literally by the government. They didn’t send a takedown request to Twitter. They are using the power of the state of Florida to silence voices that conflict with the governing party’s worldview. But since many people agree with their conclusions, they don’t give a crap about the censorship. Same with banning of books about gay penguins. As long as it hurts black people or LGBTQ people, many are ok with as much censorship as the government can muster.

Put the shoe on the other foot - another state blocking an AP European history class. I guarantee that would be called censorship immediately by the same people giving the thumbs up to this. At least they should stop pretending to care about censorship when they clearly don’t.

What I try to wrap my head around when reading these complaints and when the reaction from certain groups are to ban, remove, and shut down the discussion is the massive level of distrust displayed.   
 

Most often these stories revolve around HS students and libraries.    When I think about it, for me to get really upset about something I'd have to be of the belief of a few things:  1. the teacher/librarian is pushing an agenda and not bothering to talk about both sides of an issue.   2.  my kid lacks the ability to think things through and understand if the teacher didn't do so that there is another way to look at things  3. my parenting has deteriorated and I haven't either instilled these things in my kid or I am no longer conversing with them about what is in their classes,  4.  my kid does everything he reads in a book or is told by a teacher.   

There have been several things that I have been in disagreement with a teacher on in a classroom.   If it was bad enough, i'd talk to the teacher or school.   Or, I can be a parent and talk to my kid about it, suggest another reading/whatever, and handle it that way.   I don't need that removed from the school, I don't need to take to social media, etc..  

All the righties out there that are for these classes removed or books removed from libraries - IF your kid took the class (I already doubt that) didn't you also instill those things in your kids so they could navigate an AP course and see some of things for the b.s. you think they are?     IF your kid checked out a book that is objectionable in the library (again, I doubt it) - what is going to happen if they read it - turn LGBTQ, immediately suck a , what?  

I am not unreasonable, I do have lines when it comes to younger kids, but come on with this crap for HS kids and AP courses.   

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

19 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I think the fundamental disconnect here is your undying commitment to classical liberalism.  I believe that you honestly believe that there will be an honest exchange of ideas, both pro and con African Americans, in this course.  You believe that they will discuss the African complicit actions in the slave trade, and ongoing slavery; the decay of the black family in America since the Great Society; how CRT might shift the blame for failure from internal to external causes; how any black person who tries to get their community to own their problems is an Uncle Tom.

This in the face of the overwhelming fact that our education system is somewhere between far left and farther left.  None of the above is going to happen, Tim.  The class will be mostly about how awesome black culture is, and how much better it could be if they weren't held down by whitey.

I can envision a student writing a well-developed essay on the negatives of CRT, and getting a 5 out of 5 on the test.  Actually, no I can't.

And these are 16-17 year olds Tim.  They can't legally vote, drink, smoke, own most weapons.  The pre-frontal cortex of males doesn't fully develop until about 25.  They are still learning and impressionable.

 

If what you’re describing turns out to be the case then I will reverse my stance on this. And we will find out if you’re right, because while Florida chose to ban this course, 49 other states haven’t.

But I’m never going to be for banning something beforehand based on your suppositions. I’m not convinced. 

[craftsman 1,045]

Parents of underage kids should have to sign off on what their kids are taught. Just like they have to sign off on field trips.

[craftsman 1,045]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

If what you’re describing turns out to be the case then I will reverse my stance on this. And we will find out if you’re right, because while Florida chose to ban this course, 49 other states haven’t.

But I’m never going to be for banning something beforehand based on your suppositions. I’m not convinced. 

49 states are stupid then.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

All these hate groups running around and you would think they would be getting federally charged a lot more often. You can get groups like this easily on a conspiracy charge. And when they do most of the participants are working for the FBI. 

[RLLD 3,455]

1 hour ago, dogcows said:

This African American studies course is optional. But they are banning it.

Are you against the teaching of any history?

It is an odd leap to ask me if I am against teaching all history. It borders on sarcasm and condescension.

I do not object to the teaching of history. As noted such classes as European history and/or African American history should be optional.

Classes that provide useful knowledge should be mandatory.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

It is an odd leap to ask me if I am against teaching all history. It borders on sarcasm and condescension.

I do not object to the teaching of history. As noted such classes as European history and/or African American history should be optional.

Classes that provide useful knowledge should be mandatory.

 

They are optional. Go ahead and teach them on your own dime on your own time.  I pay for my kids karate lessons. Lost of kids go to CCD on their own time and dime and learn about their religion.  

[BuckSwope 654]

One thing that does give me pause is if a lot of the AP history classes are taught the way my son's AP World History is.   It seems like a lot of "here, read this" and take the test.  It seems to be designed to instill some independent reading and motivation, which is good but it also seem to lack discussion about some complex issues.   Just like other classes it's geared just to pass standardized tests.  

[jerryskids 5,206]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

If what you’re describing turns out to be the case then I will reverse my stance on this. And we will find out if you’re right, because while Florida chose to ban this course, 49 other states haven’t.

But I’m never going to be for banning something beforehand based on your suppositions. I’m not convinced. 

Your demographics just prove my point about education systems being extremely left.  Like I said earlier, thank goodness for Florida doing this, so that there is a non-zero chance that you end up correct.  Without Florida's actions, it would be absolute zero. 

And I know you aren't convinced; I believe you've been gaslit big time, you don't.  Hence my comment about the disconnect.   

[BuckSwope 654]

4 minutes ago, craftsman said:

Parents of underage kids should have to sign off on what their kids are taught. Just like they have to sign off on field trips.

If you want that much control, why wouldn't you just home school?  

[craftsman 1,045]

1 minute ago, BuckSwope said:

If you want that much control, why wouldn't you just home school?  

Both should be an option. Some responsible parents work for a living.

[RLLD 3,455]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

They are optional. Go ahead and teach them on your own dime on your own time.  I pay for my kids karate lessons. Lost of kids go to CCD on their own time and dime and learn about their religion.  

So long as they are optional then who cares what they offer?

I mean honestly, if a parent wants to expose their child to elements of learning then so be it.

Personally I would not want my kid to be in any class where people are being impugned based on their skin color for actions they never conducted and such. 
 

But if that is what someone wants in their kids head, have at it…..of course that kid would likely end up in jail or asking my kid if they want fries with their order 

[craftsman 1,045]

4 minutes ago, RLLD said:

So long as they are optional then who cares what they offer?

I mean honestly, if a parent wants to expose their child to elements of learning then so be it.

Personally I would not want my kid to be in any class where people are being impugned based on their skin color for actions they never conducted and such. 
 

But if that is what someone wants in their kids head, have at it…..of course that kid would likely end up in jail or asking my kid if they want fries with their order 

That's the problem. Even if a class is considered optional, it shouldn't be set up to teach lies. No kid deserves to be taught the lies that the leftists want to push on them 

[BuckSwope 654]

2 minutes ago, craftsman said:

Both should be an option. Some responsible parents work for a living.

No, they shouldn't.   Having each parent have that much control and sign off on what Timmy and Mary are learning in public school is a bonkers idea.  I can't even imagine that headache for teachers and administrators as parents dissect every line of a syllabus.  What if :gasp: something is taught but on in the syllabus and got your pre-approval?  

Are you guys that afraid your kid gets exposed to a POV or idea that you don't agree with?  

 

[jonmx 1,593]

4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Of course there is also the fact that Florida suggested to the media that the course was “too vague”; NOW they are complaining about the specifics of the course- this is a huge contradiction I noted earlier . 

Only in a deranged mind is that in anyway a contradiction.  They ask for specific details because they know all the high level descriptions are hiding their true agenda.  Then the specifics are provided and it proves their point.  That is called CONFIRMATION,  it is not a contradiction.  Logic has really never been your strong suit. 

[craftsman 1,045]

4 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

No, they shouldn't.   Having each parent have that much control and sign off on what Timmy and Mary are learning in public school is a bonkers idea.  I can't even imagine that headache for teachers and administrators as parents dissect every line of a syllabus.  What if :gasp: something is taught but on in the syllabus and got your pre-approval?  

Are you guys that afraid your kid gets exposed to a POV or idea that you don't agree with?  

 

Then stick to a basic curriculum of math, science, and reading/writing. 

Stop the opinionated liberal bullshlt. 

You all just want into the heads of other people's children. 

I wouldn't want my kids to have your POV in their heads. It's sick.

[jonmx 1,593]

3 hours ago, dogcows said:

Teaching black history is equivalent to denying the Holocaust? Such a statement is certain to make people take you seriously, right?…..

Black history my arse.  What they want to teach is this white priviledge bigotry and about some imaginary secret-society white hierarchy where only white people can advance in our society.  It is the exact same model the Nazi's used to vilify Jews.   All blacks are helpless and can only advance if we overthrow the evil white people. It is teaching hatred between races.   So STFU with your lies.  You know better. 

[craftsman 1,045]

1 minute ago, jonmx said:

Black history my arse.  What they want to teach is this whote priviledge bigotry and about white hierarchy.  It is the exact same model the Nazi's used to vilify Jews.   It is teaching hatred between races.   So STFU with you lies.  You know better. 

Yep. They want to teach lies to kids. Gee, I wonder what forms of governments like to brainwash the children. Hmmm...