Ohio toxic train derailment

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

Just now, Reality said:

Yes, both-sidesism, groundbreaking stuff... 

As I've been saying for years, what this country needs is a moderate Democrat or Republican, someone close to the middle who can rally the meat of both parties and isolate the extremes. We don't need MAGA any more than we need Bernie Sanders. 

[seafoam1 3,086]

4 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Who doesn't care about this?

Liberals who voted for all of it. 

[seafoam1 3,086]

7 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

You've made some excellent observations in this thread.

Thank you. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,510]

Black rock, Vanguard, JP Morgan. Follow the money. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

Liberals who voted for all of it. 

Show us where liberals expedited the import of fentanyl.

Hunter Biden. Fentanyl. Hunter Biden. Fentanyl. Hunter Biden. Fentanyl. Hunter Biden. Fentanyl. Hunter Biden. Fentanyl. Hunter Biden. Fentanyl. 

No one is saying fentanyl isn't a problem. 

[seafoam1 3,086]

Just now, Pimpadeaux said:

Show us where liberals expedited the import of fentanyl.. 

Biden was voted in. 

 

[Hawkeye21 2,400]

10 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Black rock, Vanguard, JP Morgan. Follow the money. 

That seems to be the problem.  Now, how do we fix it?

[dogcows 1,030]

 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,361]

16 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

As I've been saying for years, what this country needs is a moderate Democrat or Republican, someone close to the middle who can rally the meat of both parties and isolate the extremes. We don't need MAGA any more than we need Bernie Sanders. 

We had a moderate and you guys turned it into hitler

[dogcows 1,030]

1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

We had a moderate and you guys turned it into hitler

Says maybe the farthest right person on the board… who claims to be a centrist.

[seafoam1 3,086]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

 

The curent trans secretary blames Trump too. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,361]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

 

He’s incredible cause he has the Ukraine flag. Biden was more than welcome to change any policy he wanted

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,361]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

Says maybe the farthest right person on the board… who claims to be a centrist.

Show me a “ far right” policy that I support or that trump put in place

lol I’m the furthest right. Being pro gay moderate on abortion and anti war makes me an extreme right winger

[dogcows 1,030]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

The curent trans secretary blames Trump too. 

I believe the point is that those blaming Biden are the same ones that constantly vote to gut the EPA and reduce “job-killing” regulations. The brakes on this train, for example, should have been upgraded years ago, but Trump blocked the rule.

[RogerDodger 798]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

I believe the point is that those blaming Biden are the same ones that constantly vote to gut the EPA and reduce “job-killing” regulations. The brakes on this train, for example, should have been upgraded years ago, but Trump blocked the rule.

A - It wasn't the brakes that caused it.

B - The EPA doesn't do maintenance on trains.

[seafoam1 3,086]

3 minutes ago, dogcows said:

I believe the point is that those blaming Biden are the same ones that constantly vote to gut the EPA and reduce “job-killing” regulations. The brakes on this train, for example, should have been upgraded years ago, but Trump blocked the rule.

It's not about the brakes on the train. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-blame-ohio-train-derailment-1781163

Quote

The derailment of a 150-car train carrying hazardous material in East Palestine, Ohio, was likely more severe because the Trump administration repealed a key safety rule, according to an industry insider.

Quote

Speaking to investigative news outlet The Lever, Steven Ditmeyer, a former top official at the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA), said the "severity" of the accident was likely increased by the lack of Electronically Controlled Pneumatic (ECP) brakes.

Quote

A rule was passed under President Barack Obama that made it a requirement for trains carrying hazardous flammable materials to have ECP brakes, but this was rescinded in 2017 by the Trump administration.

 

[TimHauck 2,916]

3 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

A - It wasn't the brakes that caused it.

 

My understanding is they may have been able to help it stop after it happened though

[dogcows 1,030]

4 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

A - It wasn't the brakes that caused it.

B - The EPA doesn't do maintenance on trains.

The official report on the cause hasn’t come out. The EPA rules are separate, which is why I mentioned them separately.

Republicans in the past wanted to shut down the EPA. But when something bad happens, ‘why isn’t the EPA saving us!?”

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,361]

8 minutes ago, dogcows said:

I believe the point is that those blaming Biden are the same ones that constantly vote to gut the EPA and reduce “job-killing” regulations. The brakes on this train, for example, should have been upgraded years ago, but Trump blocked the rule.

So a company can’t check their brakes cause trump didn’t make them. 
 

good to know I never need to check mine

[Hardcore troubadour 15,510]

So Biden can undo everything trump did with the stroke of a pen in his first few days/ weeks in office but he didn’t get to this one.  Lol

[seafoam1 3,086]

8 minutes ago, dogcows said:

The official report on the cause hasn’t come out.

Good one.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

My limited understanding is that compliance with regulations, and/or compliance with industry standards is not a defense in a legal proceding against recklessness, gross negligence, or negligence unless there is a specific statute mandating such protection.  Basically it comes down to the fact that past practices and regulations may not have kept up with what is reasonable and foreseeable.   Maybe the industry, as it evolves and advances, has to advance its safety as well.  Or maybe industry needs the certainty of relying on regulations and industry practices to be able to operate at all.

 

Hopefully this leads to an examination of practices and regulations will be put in place to provide protections, not just onerous regulations worried about the appearance of protections, but real world protections.

[Ultra Max Power 214]

37 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-blame-ohio-train-derailment-1781163

 

Here is the reason they went away from ECP brakes. The "safety improvement" of adding ECP breaks to every rail car was just over 1%.

Electronically Controlled Pneumatic (ECP) Brakes & Hazmat - Association of American Railroads (aar.org)

[Hawkeye21 2,400]

 

[seafoam1 3,086]

Buttplug is Biden's hero!

[Ultra Max Power 214]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

 

 

It might be an improvement for Detroit

[Hawkeye21 2,400]

Just now, Ultra Max Power said:

 

It might be an improvement for Detroit

Saw someone else say the same in the comments.  

[seafoam1 3,086]

2 minutes ago, Ultra Max Power said:

 

It might be an improvement for Detroit

True.

[Ultra Max Power 214]

I don't know if hazmat fires and train derailments are just the new thing to focus on, but over the last several days there seem to have been a lot of both.  At least 4 derailments and there was a Truck fire in Arizona and a warehouse fire in Florida this week that both causes evacuations of the area.  

[Hawkeye21 2,400]

19 minutes ago, Ultra Max Power said:

I don't know if hazmat fires and train derailments are just the new thing to focus on, but over the last several days there seem to have been a lot of both.  At least 4 derailments and there was a Truck fire in Arizona and a warehouse fire in Florida this week that both causes evacuations of the area.  

I'm thinking it's just recency bias.  If there are close to 1700 derailments a year then this should be pretty normal, although that shows how bad our rail system is.

[Ultra Max Power 214]

20 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm thinking it's just recency bias.  If there are close to 1700 derailments a year then this should be pretty normal, although that shows how bad our rail system is.

Possibly. I'm just repeating unverified comments I've heard, but it has been claimed that purposeful derailments are included in those numbers and that happens several times a day nationally for maintenance reasons.

A derailment is counted every time a wheel leaves the track and touches ground.  the most common cause of derailments is vehicles at crossings and debris left on the tracks.  An actual train falling off the track the way these last few have isnt very common.   

[dogcows 1,030]

1 hour ago, Ultra Max Power said:

Here is the reason they went away from ECP brakes. The "safety improvement" of adding ECP breaks to every rail car was just over 1%.

Electronically Controlled Pneumatic (ECP) Brakes & Hazmat - Association of American Railroads (aar.org)

Note - this statement is from the industry that didn’t want to pay more for the new brakes. 

[TimHauck 2,916]

2 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Note - this statement is from the industry that didn’t want to pay more for the new brakes. 

BIg pharma = bad

Big railroad = good

[Ultra Max Power 214]

4 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Note - this statement is from the industry that didn’t want to pay more for the new brakes. 

Fair point. 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

BIg pharma = bad

Big railroad = good

Follow the profits

[posty 2,714]

Has Buttigieg showed up yet?

[Hawkeye21 2,400]

4 minutes ago, posty said:

Has Buttigieg showed up yet?

Which one does he go to?  There's been 4 trains derailed with hazardous chemicals in the last 10 days.

[posty 2,714]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Which one does he go to?  There's been 4 trains derailed with hazardous chemicals in the last 10 days.

Since we are in the Ohio derailment, I would say this one...  

But has he been to any of them??  I mean he is the Transportation Secretary, I would think that he should be getting to all of them as soon as he can...

[Hawkeye21 2,400]

Just now, posty said:

Since we are in the Ohio derailment, I would say this one...  

But has he been to any of them??  I mean he is the Transportation Secretary, I would think that he should be getting to all of them as soon as he can...

I think he's been silent on all of them.  I haven't heard much of anything from the Biden administration about what's been going on.