Bears trade #1 to Panthers -Add TJ Edwards and now Tremaine Edmunds

[WhiteWonder 2,723]

14 hours ago, League Champion said:

DJ Moore is only 25 years old. Why would Carolina draft a QB only to trade away a young top WR?? That's the part that I don't understand. 

It's tough to swallow but If it was what was needed to get the trade done then you do what you have to do.  This is all assuming they have a conviction at QB and think it will be the franchise. You figure that out above all else. DJ Moore is a very good, not elite receiver.  Still stings but you can get creative with adding some weapons. 

The problem is, if there is truth to the rumors that the Panthers are open to trading back down, then that means there is no conviction.... or, at least, they are rolling the dice that ... the Colts lets say, really want Stroud and will trade up, giving Carolina back some draft capital and they still get Richardson. 

[WhiteWonder 2,723]

13 hours ago, League Champion said:

It was a no lose for Chicago. They get a haul and still get their guy at 9. There's and no downside to this trade for them. 

who is their guy? how do you know they still get him?  I think more likely they are just comfortable with a number of options likely to be there. 

[WhiteWonder 2,723]

12 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

Odd time as I don't love this draft and it seems like a crapshoot.  Levis may have most upside.

Richardson has the most upside, IMO.  Much the way Lamar Jackson was the more raw but physically gifted guy with upside back in 2018. I'm not saying Richardson isn't  even more raw, just a quick situation comp that comes to mind. 

[TimHauck 2,740]

Seems like Vegas has the odds on Stroud but lots of Cam Newton comparisons being made with Richardson

[jonmx 2,429]

9 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

who is their guy? how do you know they still get him?  I think more likely they are just comfortable with a number of options likely to be there. 

Chicago could very well get the best player at number 9, but there are a couple of elite defensive players towards the top who look likely to dominate.  They got a hell of a haul for the drop they took. Odds are it costs them an elite defensive player, but there is no guarantees either way. 

[WhiteWonder 2,723]

11 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

So pay assets to be at thr mercy of whats left anyway?  Pretty goofy strategy.   

Maybe but here would be the thought process. The only teams likely willing to trade BACK were Chicago and mayyybe Arizona. Carolina likely did not think their guy or any of the guys they like would last to 9... Probably won't last past 6.  So you make the leap to #1, don't really give up that much in terms of draft capital (DJ Moore obviously), and now you see how desperate Irsay and the Colts are. It's Frank Reich, after all. What if they can get pick 4, 35 and a 2024 1st? Or even just pick 4, 79 and a 2024 1st?  

end result might be ending up with their guy anyway and it only costing a 2025 2nd and DJ Moore. 

[WhiteWonder 2,723]

5 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Chicago could very well get the best player at number 9, but there are a couple of elite defensive players towards the top who look likely to dominate.  They got a hell of a haul for the drop they took. Odds are it costs them an elite defensive player, but there is no guarantees either way. 

that was my point. Any team can get the best player at their pick if it shakes out that way 3-4 years from now. I was just curious about the statement that Chicago was still getting their guy at #9. Can't really say that with any certainty. 

[League Champion 1,909]

25 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

who is their guy? how do you know they still get him?  I think more likely they are just comfortable with a number of options likely to be there. 

They need defensive help something bad. At 9 they're getting a top defensive player without question whether it's the top CB, a DE, Lineman, etc. 

But you're right. I'm sure their board shows a number of guy there at 9 that they like. 

[KSB2424 3,148]

I just did some math.  Looked up the top 15 QB's last year by NFL Index.  It's all the guys you think:  Allen, Burrow, Rodgers, Jackson, yada yada.

27% were the number one pick.

27% were 2 thru 10

19% were 11 thru 32

27% after the first round

I guess my point being.....its a gamble to move up.  As a Panther fan I don't mind burning other picks but a known, coached commodity like DJ is a hard pill to swallow. 

 

[League Champion 1,909]

25 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

As a Panther fan I don't mind burning other picks but a known, coached commodity like DJ is a hard pill to swallow. 

For your sake i hope it's not young, he's not going to be around long at that size. 

[seafoam1 2,939]

There is no indication in the least of what the Bears will do at 9 until after FA. 

And there is a good chance that Poles even trades down a few more spots from there.

If the Bears get McGlinchey or some starter at OT, and Wilson falls to them at 9, they take Wilson I bet. If Wilson is gone, and they didn't get an OT as a FA, I bet they take Paris Johnson or Skoronski. But again, if someone like Gonzalez drops to them at 9, I could easily see a trade with philthy or NE or Washington. Washington could net them another 2nd since that's another big drop back. 

If Seattle doesn't take Carter, then I could see him dropping to 9. And I would still hope the Bears wouldn't take him. There were questions about his work ethic prior to his leaving his teammate and the other person to die without even trying to help. 

 

 

[seafoam1 2,939]

Carter was simply a "loaf" in practice and at times during the games, now he's a proven piece of shlt as a person AND a "loaf". I've heard multiple people say the same about Carter's work ethic. The guy is so talented, but I think this is going to catch up with both him and the team that drafts him over time. 

MAR 2, 2023 1:43 AM EST

Report Suggests Oil and Water Bears Mix

Jalen Carter's work ethic in practice is called into question by Albert Breer's sources at the combine and that runs contrary to the Bears HITS principle.

 

If Jalen Carter hadn't encountered legal problems Wednesday regarding January's fatal crash in Georgia, it's possible the Bears would not have been interested in drafting him high.

 

According to Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer, several personnel sources he spoke with at the combine had real questions about Carter's willingness to put in the kind of hard work required outside of game days in the NFL to be a success.

 

If true, Carter's approach would run totally the opposite of what Bears coach Matt Eberflus demands from his players with his strict HITS principle that downgrades for "loafs."

 

Breer spoke with an AFC college scouting director who told him: "Before this, he (Carter) had a reputation as someone who was never particularly fond of the process. A lot of the questions were like, well, there’s nothing criminal, but he may not really love anything about football other than game day. Now, you can’t really say there’s nothing criminal. ... I think he loves to play football but doesn't love to work at it."

 

 

[TimHauck 2,740]

7 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

I just did some math.  Looked up the top 15 QB's last year by NFL Index.  It's all the guys you think:  Allen, Burrow, Rodgers, Jackson, yada yada.

27% were the number one pick.

27% were 2 thru 10

19% were 11 thru 32

27% after the first round

I guess my point being.....its a gamble to move up.  As a Panther fan I don't mind burning other picks but a known, coached commodity like DJ is a hard pill to swallow. 

 

So 54% were picked in the top 10?  That’s more than I expected honestly…

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,316]

2 hours ago, TimHauck said:

So 54% were picked in the top 10?  That’s more than I expected honestly…

Agree. It’s almost certain you have to have a 1st round qb to be successful

[seafoam1 2,939]

12 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Agree. It’s almost certain you have to have a 1st round qb to be successful

I'm not sure why, but it's kind of weird when teams draft QBs in the second and third rounds. It's like, you seem to be good, but not really? Then why draft them there?

Ridder was drafted in the 3rd, and he didn't play horrible in his first few games of his career last year, but then everyone is talking about Atlanta as needing a QB? I don't get it. Why not give the guy a year?  

Who knows, maybe they will out of need.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,316]

7 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

I'm not sure why, but it's kind of weird when teams draft QBs in the second and third rounds. It's like, you seem to be good, but not really? Then why draft them there?

Ridder was drafted in the 3rd, and he didn't play horrible in his first few games of his career last year, but then everyone is talking about Atlanta as needing a QB? I don't get it. Why not give the guy a year?  

Who knows, maybe they will out of need.

Yep it’s like they draft a guy they don’t even see having a future. 

I’m curious what the first round just rate is for QBs. The biggest thing is when they do bust they set a franchise back a decade. 

[seafoam1 2,939]

On 3/11/2023 at 7:11 AM, jonmx said:

That was a massive haul.  Congrats.   DJ Moore is better than what they would have gotten out of free agency, although there will be a $20/18/16 million cap hit.  You would have spent $12 million at WR anyways.   

Yeah. I was thinking yesterday how the salaries are rising at WR. The Bears can afford to overpay some this year, and the salary going down over the next couple years is perfect. Moore is young and his best years may be ahead of him still. For free agents I think the Bears front load the contracts into signing bonuses and salaries in 2023 and have them free up cap space as time goes on. If Fields turns out to be the man and proves it this year, the Bears will need to pay him after this year and not wait until his 5th year like the Giants did with Jones and got stuck overpaying a bit. But if Fields doesn't pan out this year, the Bears may be in the same spot as the Giants were with Jones and still need to see more in his 4th year which would be awful unless they draft another QB in 2024.. 

It's tough on these teams trying to find the QB of the long term future.

[listen2me 23 1,858]

12 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

Richardson has the most upside, IMO.  Much the way Lamar Jackson was the more raw but physically gifted guy with upside back in 2018. I'm not saying Richardson isn't  even more raw, just a quick situation comp that comes to mind. 

Yeah I guess you are right.  But you could basically take the fastest QB of any draft and say he has the most upside. 

Dude was a 53% passer last year and didn't carry his team to anything despite being hailed as some super hero freak of nature.  

[listen2me 23 1,858]

12 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

Maybe but here would be the thought process. The only teams likely willing to trade BACK were Chicago and mayyybe Arizona. Carolina likely did not think their guy or any of the guys they like would last to 9... Probably won't last past 6.  So you make the leap to #1, don't really give up that much in terms of draft capital (DJ Moore obviously), and now you see how desperate Irsay and the Colts are. It's Frank Reich, after all. What if they can get pick 4, 35 and a 2024 1st? Or even just pick 4, 79 and a 2024 1st?  

end result might be ending up with their guy anyway and it only costing a 2025 2nd and DJ Moore. 

Teams dont just roll the dice and hope if they truly have a guy they like more than the others.  So what if you in total pay a 2nd and Moore and are left with your pants on the ground? Thats some pretty amateur GMing and business.

You don't think the Bears and Colts were on the phone? You think teams just on a whim pick up a phone one day and say sure lets trade.  They dont exhaust all options?  

If this matrix chess match unfolds I will gladly eat crow.   

[listen2me 23 1,858]

12 hours ago, League Champion said:

They need defensive help something bad. At 9 they're getting a top defensive player without question whether it's the top CB, a DE, Lineman, etc. 

But you're right. I'm sure their board shows a number of guy there at 9 that they like. 

Agree that getting their guy anyway at 9 is nonsense.  

I think they take Skoronski.  The T/G from NW who grew up a bears fan.  Not a sexy pick but very safe.  Shorter arms than people like at Tackle but many prople believe it doesnt matter he can play LT in thr NFL.  Day 1 RT or G.   Could be a dominant guard.  

They have decent weapons now with Mooney Moore and Claypool.  I think they zero in on the line.  Unless of course they address it hard in FA.  FA would be telling for their pick.   But it is idiodic to take a rd 1 QB and just neglect the line.  The Bills are seeing that now with poor drafting and just straight up neglecting the line.  Draft Allen top 10.  Now paid him.  Just neglect line.  Ridiculous strategy.   

[seafoam1 2,939]

3 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Yeah I guess you are right.  But you could basically take the fastest QB of any draft and say he has the most upside. 

Dude was a 53% passer last year and didn't carry his team to anything despite being hailed as some super hero freak of nature.  

I've heard more than one ex NFL QB say Richardson's mechanics are so messed up that he really needs to consider changing positions if he wants to be anything in the NFL. 

A couple of them compared him to Logan Thomas who was drafted as a QB and is now a tight end with Washington.

Have fun choosing him in the first round unless you want a running QB. I am a Bears fan and think the Bears NEED to have Fields throw to a receiver or throw the ball away all year to see if he can become a passer who can run rather than a runner who can occasionally pass.

[listen2me 23 1,858]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

I've heard more than one ex NFL QB say Richardson's mechanics are so messed up that he really needs to consider changing positions if he wants to be anything in the NFL. 

A couple of them compared him to Logan Thomas who was drafted as a QB and is now a tight end with Washington.

Have fun choosing him in the first round unless you want a running QB. I am a Bears fan and think the Bears NEED to have Fields throw to a receiver or throw the ball away all year to see if he can become a passer who can run rather than a runner who can occasionally pass.

2 years ago I was thinking this guy could probably change positions if he does it now.   He is certainly athletic.    Wasnt a great passer but the backup.   Got his chance last year and still was not a good passer.

It is much more a just take the best athlete type league than it used to be.  Mechanics and accuracy is dumbed down a bit when everyone runs shotgun spread for half of games.   So he has a chance if he gets with the right dance partner.    But I was totally shocked to learn he was definitely a 1st rounder.  

[seafoam1 2,939]

10 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Agree that getting their guy anyway at 9 is nonsense.  

I think they take Skoronski.  The T/G from NW who grew up a bears fan.  Not a sexy pick but very safe.  Shorter arms than people like at Tackle but many prople believe it doesnt matter he can play LT in thr NFL.  Day 1 RT or G.   Could be a dominant guard.  

They have decent weapons now with Mooney Moore and Claypool.  I think they zero in on the line.  Unless of course they address it hard in FA.  FA would be telling for their pick.   But it is idiodic to take a rd 1 QB and just neglect the line.  The Bills are seeing that now with poor drafting and just straight up neglecting the line.  Draft Allen top 10.  Now paid him.  Just neglect line.  Ridiculous strategy.   

Their guy? It wasn't Carter necessarily because of reasons I posted earlier. And in a 4-3 defense why would they want a 250lb DE? They like Tyree Wilson would be a better argument than a lot of people saying that Anderson and Carter are the guys to have in this draft. And who knows who they get in FA. I listen to Bears stations and heard all the inputs on NFL radio and etc. and it was almost a consensus that Carolina was their best target if it could happen and Carolina was willing to pay up.

The Bears got what they wanted. For better or worse. They go OT or DE/DL or trade back some more at/from #9. That said, Poles could do just about anything and I wouldn't be surprised. Bijan Robinson for God's sake.

[seafoam1 2,939]

And I would bet Carolina goes Stroud over Young. Maybe I will actually if my book has it. Gotta check that.

I'm really interested in seeing what Indi is going to do. They may be in on Jackson when all is said and done.

[listen2me 23 1,858]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

Their guy? It wasn't Carter necessarily because of reasons I posted earlier. And in a 4-3 defense why would they want a 250lb DE? They like Tyree Wilson would be a better argument than a lot of people saying that Anderson and Carter are the guys to have in this draft. And who knows who they get in FA. I listen to Bears stations and heard all the inputs on NFL radio and etc. and it was almost a consensus that Carolina was their best target if it could happen and Carolina was willing to pay up.

The Bears got what they wanted. For better or worse. They go OT or DE/DL or trade back some more at/from #9. That said, Poles could do just about anything and I wouldn't be surprised. 

They may still get "their" guy.  But their guy has changed.  If they stayed at 1 overall because no team would trade there is  zero chance they take who they will take at 9. 

Also how are you getting your guy at 9.  You can mock a draft board all you want but at 9 overall how can you be certain your guy isn't off the board? Unless its a qay out of the box pick.  Like Ferrell at 4 by Mayock with the raiders.  

[MDC 7,299]

23 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Yeah I guess you are right.  But you could basically take the fastest QB of any draft and say he has the most upside. 

Dude was a 53% passer last year and didn't carry his team to anything despite being hailed as some super hero freak of nature.  

Richardson has an absolute cannon for an arm too. He’s going to need coaching but if you’re looking for pure measurable he ticks every box. Some team will think they can mold him the way the Bills developed Josh Allen.

[listen2me 23 1,858]

Just now, MDC said:

Richardson has an absolute cannon for an arm too. He’s going to need coaching but if you’re looking for pure measurable he ticks every box. Some team will think they can mold him the way the Bills developed Josh Allen.

Yeah I guess.  He surely is a project.  Allen was a project.  But he was also trying to put Wyoming on his shoulders with C level coaching.  Richardson has had rich program SEC coaching throwing to 4 and 5 star recruits.  Perhaps he has less meat on the bone than Allen had.  

Yeah some teams will shy away from committing to working on him. But a team surely will be up to the task with a big reward in the back of their mind.  

[seafoam1 2,939]

7 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

They may still get "their" guy.  But their guy has changed.  If they stayed at 1 overall because no team would trade there is  zero chance they take who they will take at 9. 

Also how are you getting your guy at 9.  You can mock a draft board all you want but at 9 overall how can you be certain your guy isn't off the board? Unless its a qay out of the box pick.  Like Ferrell at 4 by Mayock with the raiders.  

I bet Poles thinks like this. There are at least a couple guys he likes and are draftable at 9 who will definitely be there, maybe Skoronski, Paris Johnson, Van Ness, Witherspoon or others. He sees what comes his way in FA and they get either a DT or OT or both. Say Jones and McGlinchey. Then Skoronski is the guy who can move to iOL. If they don't get an OT maybe they take Johnson. If they don't get a DE in free agency then maybe Van Ness. Or maybe they trade back a few spots and get another 2nd or 3rd rounder.

[MDC 7,299]

21 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Yeah I guess.  He surely is a project.  Allen was a project.  But he was also trying to put Wyoming on his shoulders with C level coaching.  Richardson has had rich program SEC coaching throwing to 4 and 5 star recruits.  Perhaps he has less meat on the bone than Allen had.  

Yeah some teams will shy away from committing to working on him. But a team surely will be up to the task with a big reward in the back of their mind.  

No idea what kind of person Richardson is or whether he’ll pan out. Lots of superior athletes don’t make it in the NFL. But he’s got rare, elite arm talent - he’s not just a scrambler.

[WhiteWonder 2,723]

1 hour ago, listen2me 23 said:

Yeah I guess you are right.  But you could basically take the fastest QB of any draft and say he has the most upside. 

Dude was a 53% passer last year and didn't carry his team to anything despite being hailed as some super hero freak of nature.  

He’s not just fast, he’s big and has arm talent. I’m not saying he’s my personal choice, I’m just saying he has the most upside 

[WhiteWonder 2,723]

1 hour ago, listen2me 23 said:

Teams dont just roll the dice and hope if they truly have a guy they like more than the others.  So what if you in total pay a 2nd and Moore and are left with your pants on the ground? Thats some pretty amateur GMing and business.

You don't think the Bears and Colts were on the phone? You think teams just on a whim pick up a phone one day and say sure lets trade.  They dont exhaust all options?  

If this matrix chess match unfolds I will gladly eat crow.   

Again, I was laying out the hypothetical for how the scenario happens. It’s almost based on Carolina not having a specific guy but rather having 2-3 guys they like a lot and know none of them will make it to 9. The easiest trade partner was the bears just to make sure they got into the top 4 picks. Now, if they can, they would gladly get some capital back from Indy. 
i would imagine Indy was on the phone with Chicago (along with a few other teams), that goes without saying. 

[seafoam1 2,939]

2 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Again, I was laying out the hypothetical for how the scenario happens. It’s almost based on Carolina not having a specific guy but rather having 2-3 guys they like a lot and know none of them will make it to 9. The easiest trade partner was the bears just to make sure they got into the top 4 picks. Now, if they can, they would gladly get some capital back from Indy. 
i would imagine Indy was on the phone with Chicago (along with a few other teams), that goes without saying. 

Who from their oranization said they just wanted to be in the top 4? Why spend so much to go to 1 if they could just go to 3?

[JustinCharge 2,397]

5 hours ago, TimHauck said:

So 54% were picked in the top 10?  That’s more than I expected honestly…

as i have said, to draft a GOOD QB, there is about a 50% chance you will find one in the top 5 of a draft.  Outside of that, the odds quickly fall to about 1 in 30 QBs taken.

Its still unclear where Bailey Zappe's career will wind up.  Zappe was taken in the 4th round and all indications are he will be competing with Mac Jones in camp for the job this year.  Zappe might be that rare exception.  (Per Jeff Howe of the Athletic)  https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/03/qb-notes-jones-giants-geno-seahawks-watson-browns-zappe-jones-patriots-jets-white

[JustinCharge 2,397]

QBs taken top 5:

2020: Joe Burrow, Tua Tagovailoa
2019: Kyler Murray
2018: Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold
2017: Mitchell Trubisky
2016: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz
2015: Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota
2014: Blake Bortles
2013: none
2012: Andrew Luck, RG3
2011: Cam Newton

hits: (6) Burrow, Tagovailoa, Murray, Goff, Luck, Newton
misses: (8)
 

[WhiteWonder 2,723]

20 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Who from their oranization said they just wanted to be in the top 4? Why spend so much to go to 1 if they could just go to 3?

it's all a guessing game, hence why I said it was HYPOTHETICAL 

how do we know Arizona is looking to move? or wasn't asking for just as much

[seafoam1 2,939]

6 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

it's all a guessing game, hence why I said it was HYPOTHETICAL 

how do we know Arizona is looking to move? or wasn't asking for just as much

Beats me. This is going to be an interesting draft though for the first couple rounds. Should be fun.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Currently, 3 QBs are projected to go in the top 5.  The last time that happened was in 1999.  Tim Couch, Akili Smith, and Donovan McNabb.  One of them went to a hall of fame coach although Andy Reid wasn't that yet.  Actually, the last time a head coach that was looked at as hall of fame timber drafted a QB in the top 5 was in 1993 - and it happened TWICE that year.  Bill Parcells took Drew Bledsoe #1 overall, and Tom Flores took Rick Mirer #2 overall.

[seafoam1 2,939]

Some info on why the Bears chose Carolina over Indi.

Seems the Chicago Bears came close to a very different outcome.

Michael Pittman has been a solid wide receiver in Indianapolis over the past two seasons, going for a combined 2,007 yards and ten touchdowns. He doesn’t turn 26 until October and has another year left on his rookie contract. The appeal was obvious from the Bears’ perspective. It sounds like they were ready to make a deal with the Colts, but GM Chris Ballard wasn’t willing to include Pittman. Poles made it clear there would be no trade without him. When Carolina finally caved and threw in Moore, that clinched it for them.

[seafoam1 2,939]

Now they add TJ Edwards. 

Reported as 19.5M over 3 years as of now.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,282]

Dammit