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[Strike 5,219]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

We can’t fill our need domestically. If we try, the Saudis will simply decrease their output so that the prices stay where they are or go up. Thats the situation we’re stuck with until we get off oil. 

This is flat out wrong. 

[Mark Davis 339]

9 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

We can’t fill our need domestically. If we try, the Saudis will simply decrease their output so that the prices stay where they are or go up. Thats the situation we’re stuck with until we get off oil. 

And if they do, domestic corporations which employ Americans make the profits instead of the Saudi regime. Seems like this would be a good thing. 

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

This is flat out wrong. 

What you really mean is “this is contrary to the conservative mantra which has been shaped over the years by the oil companies that paid for it, so I refuse to believe it’s true.” 
Isn’t that what you meant? 

[League Champion 1,896]

10 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No. We’re obviously not getting our news from the same sources. I trust the mainstream media, who tells me that Ukraine is winning and not being annihilated. I have no idea what you’re reading (Russia Today?) but pretty confident you’re being lied to. Tucker Carlson spewed the same sort of garbage you’re spewing here. It’s not reality.

 

Let me explain. F THE MEDIA!!!

I know people who are highly involved in what's happening in Ukraine right now, I know people who are there, I have been to Ukraine and was attached to a training brigade that trained Ukraine soldiers 5+ years ago and even prior. 

Do you want to hear from someone close to the situation or Anderson Cooper??? 

 

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

1 minute ago, Mark Davis said:

And if they do, domestic corporations which employ Americans make the profits instead of the Saudi regime. Seems like this would be a good thing. 

I’m all for seeing American jobs and American industries prosper. 

But oil and coal are dying industries. The more we try to build them up for perceived temporary gain, the harder the dislocation will be when all those jobs are eventually lost. 

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

Just now, League Champion said:

 

Let me explain. F THE MEDIA!!!

I know people who are highly involved in what's happening in Ukraine right now, I know people who are there, I have been to Ukraine and was attached to a training brigade that trained Ukraine soldiers 5+ years ago and even prior. 

Do you want to hear from someone close to the situation or Anderson Cooper??? 

 

CNN has several journalists on the ground over there. As does the Washington Post, the New York Times, etc. Sorry but I trust them over what some guy on the web is telling me, no matter how good your sources are. 

[Strike 5,219]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

What you really mean is “this is contrary to the conservative mantra which has been shaped over the years by the oil companies that paid for it, so I refuse to believe it’s true.” 
Isn’t that what you meant? 

I mean what i say.  You are the one who continually makes sh#t up, which I've proven over and over.  This is just another thing you made up.

[League Champion 1,896]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

CNN has several journalists on the ground over there. As does the Washington Post, the New York Times, etc. Sorry but I trust them over what some guy on the web is telling me, no matter how good your sources are. 

I have some swampland that I'd love to sell you. 

Journalists only know and report what they're told. You're a very gullible person 

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

Just now, Strike said:

I mean what i say.  You are the one who continually makes sh#t up, which I've proven over and over.  This is just another thing you made up.

You think I made up that if we increase oil production the Saudis will decrease it? Have you lived on this planet in the last 50 years? 

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

Just now, League Champion said:

I have some swampland that I'd love to sell you. 

Journalists only know and report what they're told. You're a very gullible person 

I’d say you’re the gullible one my friend. 

[League Champion 1,896]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I’d say you’re the gullible one my friend. 

You're getting news from CNN, the originator of fake news

Wait 2 years when there's nothing left of Ukraine and get back to me. They are running out of warm bodies. It's happening 

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

Here is a very good article, from an expert on oil prices, as to why more domestic drilling won’t lower oil prices: 

https://www.nrdc.org/stories/real-reasons-high-oil-and-gas-prices#:~:text=Fact-check%3A Drilling for more,global price of oil does.

Of course it dispels several conservative myths on this subject so no doubt idiots like @Strike will dismiss it or claim I made it up. But hopefully some more open minded people here will at least try to absorb the argument. It’s a good one. 

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

2 minutes ago, League Champion said:

You're getting news from CNN, the originator of fake news

Wait 2 years when there's nothing left of Ukraine and get back to me. They are running out of warm bodies. It's happening 

When this war started I expected, like most people, for Ukraine to lose quickly. I was pleasantly surprised when that didn’t happen. Based on what I’m reading I’m pretty confident Ukraine will eventually triumph with our continued support. I certainly hope I’m not wrong about this, but I could be. Wars are hard to predict until they’re done. But I see no reason not to trust CNN. 

[Strike 5,219]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You think I made up that if we increase oil production the Saudis will decrease it? Have you lived on this planet in the last 50 years? 

First of all, the Saudis are part of OPEC.  While they can deviate from OPEC's quotas that often results in other OPEC nations increasing production to take advantage of the shortage. Additionally, there is only so far they can do that.  At the end of the day they want to make money.  That's why they produce oil to begin with.  When they realize that their cuts aren't producing the intended effect they'll go back to producing more normal amounts.  So yes, they MAY try to influence the market but we are more than capable of producing as much oil as we need to compensate for any fluctuations.  The problems come in to play when our government prevents our domestic producers from doing that.   In 2017 OPEC tried cutting oil production but it didn't work.  One of the main reasons is something you chided Jerry about earlier in this thread IIRC - Trump allowing "drill baby drill":

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-opec-cuts-didnt-work-2017-5?op=1

Your statement:

Quote

Thats the situation we’re stuck with until we get off oil. 

is flat out wrong and defeatist.  We're not stuck in that situation.  We just need a government that isn't beholden to the "climate change" hysteria and actually cares about it's people instead.

[League Champion 1,896]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

When this war started I expected, like most people, for Ukraine to lose quickly

 

People said the same about Afghanistan. Both the US and Russians lost their asses there. The difference is that there was no true enemy in Afghanistan, it was the wild west. All the Russians care about right now is destroying as much of Ukraine as they can and inflict as much damage as possible. They are achieving that goal.

Russia has the Military to fight a 15 year war, the Ukrainians will be wiped out of it goes 5 years. That's just fact 

[Strike 5,219]

10 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Here is a very good article, from an expert on oil prices, as to why more domestic drilling won’t lower oil prices: 

https://www.nrdc.org/stories/real-reasons-high-oil-and-gas-prices#:~:text=Fact-check%3A Drilling for more,global price of oil does.

Of course it dispels several conservative myths on this subject so no doubt idiots like @Strike will dismiss it or claim I made it up. But hopefully some more open minded people here will at least try to absorb the argument. It’s a good one. 

Gee, what a surprise.  Tim cites a Climate Change activist group.  And here is the biography of the reporter Tim touts as an "expert" on oil prices:

 

Quote

Courtney Lindwall is a writer and editor in NRDC's Communications department. Prior to NRDC, she worked in publishing and taught writing to New York City public school students. Lindwall has a bachelor's degree in journalism from the University of Florida. She is based in the New York office.

[RLLD 4,143]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Here is a very good article, from an expert on oil prices, as to why more domestic drilling won’t lower oil prices: 

https://www.nrdc.org/stories/real-reasons-high-oil-and-gas-prices#:~:text=Fact-check%3A Drilling for more,global price of oil does.

Of course it dispels several conservative myths on this subject so no doubt idiots like @Strike will dismiss it or claim I made it up. But hopefully some more open minded people here will at least try to absorb the argument. It’s a good one. 

I might question anyone who attempts to refute the well-known balance of demand and supply.  When someone takes this kind of position it is an opportunity to pause.  

[Strike 5,219]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

I might question anyone who attempts to refute the well-known balance of demand and supply.  When someone takes this kind of position it is an opportunity to pause.  

Clicking on their About link tells you all you need to know:

Quote

NRDC works to safeguard the earth—its people, its plants and animals, and the natural systems on which all life depends.

 

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

You can bring a horse to water…

Hey I tried. I guess the only way some of you will be convinced is when we elect a Republican President who pushes for more drilling and it fails to do anything good for us. (And even then some of you still won’t be convinced.) 

[Mark Davis 339]

35 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m all for seeing American jobs and American industries prosper. 

But oil and coal are dying industries. The more we try to build them up for perceived temporary gain, the harder the dislocation will be when all those jobs are eventually lost. 

So you'd rather someone lose their job today than years from now?  That is if we assume your assumptions about the future reality are 100% correct, which neither of us know with certainty.  You nor I either have any clue how long we will be dependent on fossil fuels.  You want us to cede our money and jobs to OPEC, Russia, and Venezuela for whatever period of time that is.  And when we do, global warming which I know you care about, is made worse because we can produce it cleaner than they do. 

We lose money, jobs, and the environment is made worse, I'm waiting for the positive side to letting others produce it and us just trade for energy.  Short of calling it backwards, you haven't given an economic nor climate argument for why producing domestically isn't the better alternative.  The idea above that there is some positive to someone losing a job today versus many years, or possibly a generation later isn't economically sound.

[Strike 5,219]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You can bring a horse to water…

Hey I tried. I guess the only way some of you will be convinced is when we elect a Republican President who pushes for more drilling and it fails to do anything good for us. (And even then some of you still won’t be convinced.) 

The link I posted showed exactly what happened when we produced more oil, AND OPEC tried to influence the market by reducing their output.  The results pretty much destroy your argument.  I'm guessing you didn't read the link I posted.

[seafoam1 2,804]

13 hours ago, dogcows said:

The government spends 10x more on fossil fuel subsidies than it does on education.

You are living proof. I'm glad to have gotten private education. 

[HellToupee 1,596]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

do many thoughtful conservatives like Chris Christie.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,956]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Here is a very good article, from an expert on oil prices, as to why more domestic drilling won’t lower oil prices: 

https://www.nrdc.org/stories/real-reasons-high-oil-and-gas-prices#:~:text=Fact-check%3A Drilling for more,global price of oil does.

Of course it dispels several conservative myths on this subject so no doubt idiots like @Strike will dismiss it or claim I made it up. But hopefully some more open minded people here will at least try to absorb the argument. It’s a good one. 

Why did you say that was by an expert? 

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Why did you say that was by an expert? 

Because she seems to know what she’s talking about. 
 

Look I’m no leftist or Green Party dude. The New Green Deal, which seems to be what these folks want, strikes me as a terrible idea. Nonetheless I think they make a valid point about oil which nobody has yet refuted here. It’s a global commodity. We can’t change that fact by more drilling. Sure we could temporarily affect prices by a few cents (the way Biden does whenever he fools around with the strategic reserve) but it’s not really going to alter anything. 
 

We COULD lower prices by building more refineries. The liberals oppose this too but I’m open to it. 

[Mark Davis 339]

14 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Because she seems to know what she’s talking about. 

Here is her bio below.  She must have left out economics degrees, but she openly mentions writing advocacy articles.  At least she's honest about that.  I wouldn't hold my breath on her being able to pass an Econ 101 test though:

Courtney Lindwall is a writer and editor in NRDC's Communications department. Prior to NRDC, she worked in publishing and taught writing to New York City public school students. Lindwall has a bachelor's degree in journalism from the University of Florida. She is based in the New York office

[Boots11234 108]

12 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

Here is her bio below.  She must have left out economics degrees, but she openly mentions writing advocacy articles.  At least she's honest about that.  I wouldn't hold my breath on her being able to pass an Econ 101 test though:

Courtney Lindwall is a writer and editor in NRDC's Communications department. Prior to NRDC, she worked in publishing and taught writing to New York City public school students. Lindwall has a bachelor's degree in journalism from the University of Florida. She is based in the New York office

Just Tim showcasing his stupidity. It matched his thinking so yeah it’s good. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,850]

9 minutes ago, Boots11234 said:

Just Tim showcasing his stupidity. It matched his thinking so yeah it’s good. 

Yep. 

"<INSERT NAME HERE> agrees with me" = "Expert" in Tim's world.

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

3 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Yep. 

"<INSERT NAME HERE> agrees with me" = "Expert" in Tim's world.

Lol. When I went to look for arguments that drilling wouldn’t lower prices, there were literally dozens of them that showed up: economists, scientists, all kinds of people. I picked this one because she seems the most clear. It’s not like this is a disreputable position. 
 

Rather than attack this woman’s credentials, tell me what’s wrong with her argument, which seems to me only common sense. If oil is an internationally traded commodity then how can we affect the price significantly  by producing more of it? 

[RLLD 4,143]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

You can bring a horse to water…

Hey I tried. I guess the only way some of you will be convinced is when we elect a Republican President who pushes for more drilling and it fails to do anything good for us. (And even then some of you still won’t be convinced.) 

Well the fun part is that you do not actually have to wait for the product to even hit the market.

Speculation will drive the prices down before it even reaches market level. 
 

The mere threat of more supply is enough.

[Strike 5,219]

26 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Lol. When I went to look for arguments that drilling wouldn’t lower prices, there were literally dozens of them that showed up: economists, scientists, all kinds of people. I picked this one because she seems the most clear. It’s not like this is a disreputable position. 
 

Rather than attack this woman’s credentials, tell me what’s wrong with her argument, which seems to me only common sense. If oil is an internationally traded commodity then how can we affect the price significantly  by producing more of it? 

I posted an article from an actual reputable NEWS site.  You keep ignoring that FACT, probably because it DESTROYS your argument.  But yeah, keep posting from unknown websites and calling people "experts" who actually aren't.  Hey, maybe you can find out what Greta Dumberg thinks about this and post it. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,956]

57 minutes ago, Boots11234 said:

Just Tim showcasing his stupidity. It matched his thinking so yeah it’s good. 

Not only good, but expert level good. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,956]

38 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Lol. When I went to look for arguments that drilling wouldn’t lower prices, there were literally dozens of them that showed up: economists, scientists, all kinds of people. I picked this one because she seems the most clear. It’s not like this is a disreputable position. 
 

Rather than attack this woman’s credentials, tell me what’s wrong with her argument, which seems to me only common sense. If oil is an internationally traded commodity then how can we affect the price significantly  by producing more of it? 

You read all of them? 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

19 minutes ago, Strike said:

I posted an article from an actual reputable NEWS site.  You keep ignoring that FACT, probably because it DESTROYS your argument.  But yeah, keep posting from unknown websites and calling people "experts" who actually aren't.  Hey, maybe you can find out what Greta Dumberg thinks about this and post it. 

I couldn't find your article, all I found was something from 6 years ago.

But here is an article written recently, that says that'd drilling won't help, and it explains all the reasons why.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article259299954.html

[Mark Davis 339]

39 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Lol. When I went to look for arguments that drilling wouldn’t lower prices, there were literally dozens of them that showed up: economists, scientists, all kinds of people. I picked this one because she seems the most clear. It’s not like this is a disreputable position. 
 

Rather than attack this woman’s credentials, tell me what’s wrong with her argument, which seems to me only common sense. If oil is an internationally traded commodity then how can we affect the price significantly  by producing more of it? 

Internationally traded commodities are still subject to the laws of supply and demand.  You can't just wave off supply and demand because something is a commodity.  Do you recall the oil price war between OPEC and Russia and what occurred?   That's a perfect example, especially from the demand side.  There are examples of the supply side as well, you've even argued for them as for what might occur if we produced more, such as if the Saudis/OPEC cut production.  

[Dizkneelande 1,086]

3 hours ago, Mark Davis said:

So you'd rather someone lose their job today than years from now?  That is if we assume your assumptions about the future reality are 100% correct, which neither of us know with certainty.  You nor I either have any clue how long we will be dependent on fossil fuels.  You want us to cede our money and jobs to OPEC, Russia, and Venezuela for whatever period of time that is.  And when we do, global warming which I know you care about, is made worse because we can produce it cleaner than they do. 

We lose money, jobs, and the environment is made worse, I'm waiting for the positive side to letting others produce it and us just trade for energy.  Short of calling it backwards, you haven't given an economic nor climate argument for why producing domestically isn't the better alternative.  The idea above that there is some positive to someone losing a job today versus many years, or possibly a generation later isn't economically sound.

You’re arguing with someone who supported firing folks who refused the Covid shot.

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

20 minutes ago, Strike said:

I posted an article from an actual reputable NEWS site.  You keep ignoring that FACT, probably because it DESTROYS your argument.  But yeah, keep posting from unknown websites and calling people "experts" who actually aren't.  Hey, maybe you can find out what Greta Dumberg thinks about this and post it. 

I read your article. It makes a lot of sense. It’s argument that the Saudis can do little to affect oil prices is consistent with mine-  no country can do much to afffect prices because other countries respond. That’s why it’s a global market. The argument your article makes in no way contradicts the one I linked. 
 

 

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

1 minute ago, Dizkneelande said:

You’re arguing with someone who supported firing folks who refused the Covid shot.

I did. I don’t think that makes me irrational.

[Mark Davis 339]

2 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

I couldn't find your article, all I found was something from 6 years ago.

But here is an article written recently, that says that'd drilling won't help, and it explains all the reasons why.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article259299954.html

Your referenced article discusses more about time needed for the impact to be felt.  The quotes it uses from industry sources talk mostly about lead time for impacts to be felt.  There's no doubt they are capital projects and would take time to get new sites off the ground or old sites active.

[The Real timschochet 6,447]

4 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

Internationally traded commodities are still subject to the laws of supply and demand.  You can't just wave off supply and demand because something is a commodity.  Do you recall the oil price war between OPEC and Russia and what occurred?   That's a perfect example, especially from the demand side.  There are examples of the supply side as well, you've even argued for them as for what might occur if we produced more, such as if the Saudis/OPEC cut production.  

Sure they are. But I don’t believe we can affect the overall price through our own actions. If you do we’re going to have to agree to disagree.