Guns Guns Guns

[Hawkeye21 1,855]

4 minutes ago, dogcows said:

America has the most guns, by far, compared to any other nation. We have the most gun deaths, by far, compared to any other nation.

These are undeniable facts. Everything else is spin.

It's undeniable that people are the sole reason for murders and suicide.  When it comes to accidental deaths, guns are not a big problem in our country.

[dogcows 1,029]

44 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's undeniable that people are the sole reason for murders and suicide.  When it comes to accidental deaths, guns are not a big problem in our country.

You added “accidental” and “murder” and “suicide” to the discussion. All spin.

America: Most guns, most gun deaths. Period.

You could take your argument even farther: if people didn’t exist, they couldn’t make guns in the first place. So just get rid of people entirely and we’ve solved it! Somehow I think reducing the number of guns would be a preferable solution though.

[Hawkeye21 1,855]

5 minutes ago, dogcows said:

You added “accidental” and “murder” and “suicide” to the discussion. All spin.

Accidents are accidents.  It doesn't matter if it's a gun or not.  Zero spin.

[Hawkeye21 1,855]

6 minutes ago, dogcows said:

You added “accidental” and “murder” and “suicide” to the discussion. All spin.

America: Most guns, most gun deaths. Period.

You could take your argument even farther: if people didn’t exist, they couldn’t make guns in the first place. So just get rid of people entirely and we’ve solved it! Somehow I think reducing the number of guns would be a preferable solution though.

Why not get rid of everything that causes death then?  There are all kinds of things we do not need in this world that cause death.  Why only focus on guns?

[seafoam1 1,879]

4 hours ago, dogcows said:

21 to buy alcohol, 18 to buy guns. America!

They are using the same medical "science" as fauci. 

[seafoam1 1,879]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why not get rid of everything that causes death then?  There are all kinds of things we do not need in this world that cause death.  Why only focus on guns?

[Alias Detective 1,179]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why not get rid of everything that causes death then?  There are all kinds of things we do not need in this world that cause death.  Why only focus on guns?

Like walking along a road.

 

A grim revelation: New report indicates pedestrian deaths hit a 40-year high in 2022

In a report due out Thursday, the Governors Highway Safety Association projects 7,508 people died walking on or along U.S. roads in 2022

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/22/pedestrian-deaths-per-year-hit-high/70347175007/

 

[seafoam1 1,879]

12 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

Like walking along a road.

 

A grim revelation: New report indicates pedestrian deaths hit a 40-year high in 2022

In a report due out Thursday, the Governors Highway Safety Association projects 7,508 people died walking on or along U.S. roads in 2022

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/22/pedestrian-deaths-per-year-hit-high/70347175007/

 

Ban walking!!! Or....roads.....or something....

[Alias Detective 1,179]

3 hours ago, dogcows said:

You added “accidental” and “murder” and “suicide” to the discussion. All spin.

America: Most guns, most gun deaths. Period.

You could take your argument even farther: if people didn’t exist, they couldn’t make guns in the first place. So just get rid of people entirely and we’ve solved it! Somehow I think reducing the number of guns would be a preferable solution though.

 

1 hour ago, Alias Detective said:

Like walking along a road.

 

A grim revelation: New report indicates pedestrian deaths hit a 40-year high in 2022

In a report due out Thursday, the Governors Highway Safety Association projects 7,508 people died walking on or along U.S. roads in 2022

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/22/pedestrian-deaths-per-year-hit-high/70347175007/

 

educate yourself

[dogcows 1,029]

1 hour ago, Alias Detective said:

Like walking along a road.

 

A grim revelation: New report indicates pedestrian deaths hit a 40-year high in 2022

In a report due out Thursday, the Governors Highway Safety Association projects 7,508 people died walking on or along U.S. roads in 2022

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/22/pedestrian-deaths-per-year-hit-high/70347175007/

 

Even though pedestrian deaths hit an all-time high, the gun deaths in 2021 were more than 6x higher than that! Over 48,000 gun deaths in 2021 (2022 numbers still being compiled).

People need to walk and drive to get to work. We have traffic signs to try and help keep people safe, seatbelts in cars, and many other safety precautions.

Meanwhile, objects that are not needed to get people to work or for any other practical purpose other than killing, are subject to almost no safety requirements, and what rules there had been to protect people from them are being repealed all the time.

Your argument actually made guns look WAY worse, and the battle to keep them as unregulated as possible seems downright inhuman.

[Wade Garrett 155]

3 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Even though pedestrian deaths hit an all-time high, the gun deaths in 2021 were more than 6x higher than that! Over 48,000 gun deaths in 2021 (2022 numbers still being compiled).

People need to walk and drive to get to work. We have traffic signs to try and help keep people safe, seatbelts in cars, and many other safety precautions.

Meanwhile, objects that are not needed to get people to work or for any other practical purpose other than killing, are subject to almost no safety requirements, and what rules there had been to protect people from them are being repealed all the time.

Your argument actually made guns look WAY worse, and the battle to keep them as unregulated as possible seems downright inhuman.

I'll bet that most of the accidentally deaths like hitting pedestrians are done by gun nuts.  Not known as the brightest folks in the world, hence their need to cling to their peni...guns.

[Hawkeye21 1,855]

19 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I'll bet that most of the accidentally deaths like hitting pedestrians are done by gun nuts.  Not known as the brightest folks in the world, hence their need to cling to their peni...guns.

You say a lot of dumb things for someone who likes to belittle others.

[Wade Garrett 155]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

You say a lot of dumb things for someone who likes to belittle others.

If you find the truth belittling I can't help you boyo.

[Hawkeye21 1,855]

12 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

If you find the truth belittling I can't help you boyo.

I don't think I've heard of a solution from you yet.  Is it to just eliminate guns?

[BudBro 117]

2 hours ago, dogcows said:

 the battle to keep them as unregulated as possible seems downright inhuman.

Regulations don't make sh**ty people less sh**ty, they just place larger control over the rest of us.  There are laws in place to deal with those who overstep their bounds.  Maybe we should stop supporting the party that places corrupt judges on benches.  If you vote for democrats, you're part of the problem.

[Alias Detective 1,179]

2 hours ago, dogcows said:

Even though pedestrian deaths hit an all-time high, the gun deaths in 2021 were more than 6x higher than that! Over 48,000 gun deaths in 2021 (2022 numbers still being compiled).

People need to walk and drive to get to work. We have traffic signs to try and help keep people safe, seatbelts in cars, and many other safety precautions.

Meanwhile, objects that are not needed to get people to work or for any other practical purpose other than killing, are subject to almost no safety requirements, and what rules there had been to protect people from them are being repealed all the time.

Your argument actually made guns look WAY worse, and the battle to keep them as unregulated as possible seems downright inhuman.

Ban blacks.  Numbers will change dramatically.  FACTS.

[BuckSwope 654]

6 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why not get rid of everything that causes death then?  There are all kinds of things we do not need in this world that cause death.  Why only focus on guns?

Are those things that you had in mind when you posted this being used to randomly kill people in schools, concerts, malls, and churches?    It's very rare, but it's highly traumatizing, fairly unpredictable, and they seem to be happening more and more.   That's why people focus on guns so much.   Yes, I can think of a lot of things that we don't "need" that cause death - most I can think of you are choosing to do for entertainment (bungie jump, roller coaster), or we do focus on and regulate, or they don't happen the way many of these gun deaths happen.   

 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

You know who saw the biggest spike in gun deaths this year?

Ukraine

And we gave them a lot. Maybe the libs are on to something here...

[dogcows 1,029]

18 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Are those things that you had in mind when you posted this being used to randomly kill people in schools, concerts, malls, and churches?    It's very rare, but it's highly traumatizing, fairly unpredictable, and they seem to be happening more and more.   That's why people focus on guns so much.   Yes, I can think of a lot of things that we don't "need" that cause death - most I can think of you are choosing to do for entertainment (bungie jump, roller coaster), or we do focus on and regulate, or they don't happen the way many of these gun deaths happen.   

 

Example of death due to unnecessary risk: 5 people who knew the risk they were taking died in a submarine accident. People all over the world rushed to do anything they could to save them.

Little kids get gunned down in their school classroom, and Republicans shrug and walk away. Fockers.

[BuckSwope 654]

45 minutes ago, Ultra Max Power said:

You know who saw the biggest spike in gun deaths this year?

Ukraine

And we gave them a lot. Maybe the libs are on to something here...

It is a wee bit hard to have a gun death without one.  

[5-Points 2,732]

7 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why not get rid of everything that causes death then?  There are all kinds of things we do not need in this world that cause death.  Why only focus on guns?

Because he's a one trick pony who repeats what he's told with zero independent or rational thought. 

[Hawkeye21 1,855]

1 hour ago, BuckSwope said:

Are those things that you had in mind when you posted this being used to randomly kill people in schools, concerts, malls, and churches?    It's very rare, but it's highly traumatizing, fairly unpredictable, and they seem to be happening more and more.   That's why people focus on guns so much.   Yes, I can think of a lot of things that we don't "need" that cause death - most I can think of you are choosing to do for entertainment (bungie jump, roller coaster), or we do focus on and regulate, or they don't happen the way many of these gun deaths happen.   

 

Anyone with access to the internet can find schematics on how to build a bomb. It’s happened numerous times to randomly kill people at those places you listed. Those who want to kill will find ways to accomplish it. They always have and always will

[Hawkeye21 1,855]

43 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

It is a wee bit hard to have a gun death without one.  

Kind of hard to have any death without the cause of death. Can’t have a death by stabbing without a knife or vehicular homicide without a vehicle. 

[BuckSwope 654]

23 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Anyone with access to the internet can find schematics on how to build a bomb. It’s happened numerous times to randomly kill people at those places you listed. Those who want to kill will find ways to accomplish it. They always have and always will

Of course, and as some of these shooters have shown us, or tried to (e.g. Columbine) - building and timing bombs is harder than pulling a trigger.   Personally I also think the "well, it could lead to X" type of reason for not doing something about an issue is dumb - it's a surefire way of 0 getting done about the issue. Nothing is basically what we are doing, which indicates to me that as a country we are saying this is just SOP of living in the US - these types of mass shootings.   Sorry, that doesn't sit well with me, I would prefer us to do something to drastically reduce those incidents even if several years down the road it means we have to deal with a huge spike in bombings, mass poisonings, rogue Trucks, whatever.   Yes, somebody could decide to blow up a school - I still would like solutions put in place to reduce the mass shootings today because that is current reality, not speculation.   

I'm all ears/eyes if you guys have examples of places taking big steps to reduce mass shootings/gun deaths that saw a big enough spike in other modes of murder where it didn't make a significant reduction in deaths overall.  I am making up numbers here, but let's imagine that a fictitious country had 50k gun deaths/year and 5K knife deaths.    They make big changes and the gun deaths drop to 25K/year, but there is an increase in knife deaths to 10K/year.   We can debate about what measures they took to get there, but in general wouldn't that be a win - 20K less deaths/year?   That is what I am talking about in general. 

I believe we could take measures that could drastically reduce those deaths without bans, and I also believe that because of the ease of use and access to guns it makes it very unlikely for other modes of death to fill in those numbers to the extent I don't think it's worth it to do those initial steps.  

 

 

[BuckSwope 654]

46 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Kind of hard to have any death without the cause of death. Can’t have a death by stabbing without a knife or vehicular homicide without a vehicle. 

Yup, kind of in the definition.  Can't have a knife death without knife. 

[BuckSwope 654]

@Hawkeye21:  whenever I read something like you posted which essentially boils down to people will still want to kill others, if you take all the guns away, they will just use.... X.   Right?  In other words I feel like you are telling me that you believe whatever we put in for X (bomb, knife, bats, trucks) will be just as effective as killing as guns currently are that it's not worth the focus on the guns.   Do I have that correct?     I just find that a ridiculous idea.   

To me it doesn't matter what type of gun death you are talking about - gang violence, school shooter, suicide - you will have a very hard time convincing me if all guns were wiped out that the gang bangers would be offing themselves at the same rate with trucks and bombs or that a school shooter is going to do as much damage with a knife or we'd see as many bombing as shootings.   Guns are easy to get, use, and a great way to kill somebody from a distance no matter their size.   I don't understand anybody trying to argue from this position, or why I see it thrown around so much.    

[League Champion 1,593]

Guns fault again

 

 

[dogcows 1,029]

1 hour ago, BuckSwope said:

@Hawkeye21:  whenever I read something like you posted which essentially boils down to people will still want to kill others, if you take all the guns away, they will just use.... X.   Right?  In other words I feel like you are telling me that you believe whatever we put in for X (bomb, knife, bats, trucks) will be just as effective as killing as guns currently are that it's not worth the focus on the guns.   Do I have that correct?     I just find that a ridiculous idea.   

To me it doesn't matter what type of gun death you are talking about - gang violence, school shooter, suicide - you will have a very hard time convincing me if all guns were wiped out that the gang bangers would be offing themselves at the same rate with trucks and bombs or that a school shooter is going to do as much damage with a knife or we'd see as many bombing as shootings.   Guns are easy to get, use, and a great way to kill somebody from a distance no matter their size.   I don't understand anybody trying to argue from this position, or why I see it thrown around so much.    

The arguments defending the massive proliferation of guns are completely without merit. They are clowning themselves, then patting themselves on the back thinking they’ve made some kind of actual point.

If we got rid of cars, it would be a lot more difficult to get from one place to another.

If we got rid of guns, it would be a lot more difficult for people to kill each other.

In both cases, you haven’t completely prevented something. But you have made it far more difficult. Making it harder for us to kill each other seems like a laudable goal to me. Sadly, many don’t think so.

[seafoam1 1,879]

4 minutes ago, dogcows said:

The arguments defending the massive proliferation of guns are completely without merit. They are clowning themselves, then patting themselves on the back thinking they’ve made some kind of actual point.

If we got rid of cars, it would be a lot more difficult to get from one place to another.

If we got rid of guns, it would be a lot more difficult for people to kill each other.

In both cases, you haven’t completely prevented something. But you have made it far more difficult. Making it harder for us to kill each other seems like a laudable goal to me. Sadly, many don’t think so.

fatty food.

[BuckSwope 654]

7 hours ago, dogcows said:

The arguments defending the massive proliferation of guns are completely without merit. They are clowning themselves, then patting themselves on the back thinking they’ve made some kind of actual point.

If we got rid of cars, it would be a lot more difficult to get from one place to another.

If we got rid of guns, it would be a lot more difficult for people to kill each other.

In both cases, you haven’t completely prevented something. But you have made it far more difficult. Making it harder for us to kill each other seems like a laudable goal to me. Sadly, many don’t think so.

I can't imagine what little progress we would have made in safety if we applied that attitude to everything.  Well, I guess we shouldn't make cars safer, because people will just die by heart attack!  I mean people are just going to keep finding ways to die, so why bother with any of it?  Yes, I am purposely being silly, but that's basically how this specific line of reasoning plays out.  

From where I sit, inaction 100% is the goal, and as a country we are fine with how it is.  Otherwise, I can't imagine why we have pretty much done nothing since Columbine when these types of mass shootings have become more common.  Can people tell me any big move on gun reform that has happened in the country since then?  How about anything to address the issue of mental health?  I think we could and should do way more and that many lives can be saved.  Others seem to think it's either not going to be that many lives saved (hence the "well- they will just use a knife" type comments) or those lives aren't worth the perceived imposition on them and their guns currently.  We very much disagree on that first part, and if the second part is true it makes the "save the kids" stuff even more laughable to me.  

 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

13 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

It is a wee bit hard to have a gun death without one.  

So you think there would be less gun deaths in Ukraine this year if we didn't send them guns?

[seafoam1 1,879]

The government should step in on everyone's lives and tell them what they can have and what they can't have. For their own good damnit!! 

[5-Points 2,732]

The 100's of millions of guns in private hands in this country that are never used in the commission of any crime is enough to tell sensible people that the issue is not a gun issue. 

If the left really wanted to keep kids safe at school, they would divert 1/10 of what they've sent to Ukraine and harden the security at every public school in the country. So far they've done nothing in that regard. :yawn:

 

[BuckSwope 654]

37 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

The 100's of millions of guns in private hands in this country that are never used in the commission of any crime is enough to tell sensible people that the issue is not a gun issue. 

If the left really wanted to keep kids safe at school, they would divert 1/10 of what they've sent to Ukraine and harden the security at every public school in the country. So far they've done nothing in that regard. :yawn:

 

Would you care to lay out what the right is doing about the issue?  Is it actually working? 

As far as I can tell more guns and armed guards don't seem to be doing the trick. 

[seafoam1 1,879]

9 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Would you care to lay out what the right is doing about the issue?  Is it actually working? 

As far as I can tell more guns and armed guards don't seem to be doing the trick. 

What "issue"? Crime?

[BuckSwope 654]

3 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

What "issue"? Crime?

How about school shootings since we were talking guns and you jumped in after school safety was brought up? 

 

[seafoam1 1,879]

3 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

How about school shootings since we were talking guns and you jumped in after school safety was brought up? 

 

School shootings? How many killed in the past 10 years? 

So....crime?

[5-Points 2,732]

18 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Would you care to lay out what the right is doing about the issue?  Is it actually working? 

As far as I can tell more guns and armed guards don't seem to be doing the trick. 

Stop drugging up your kids because they're hyper and can't pay attention. Make them run it off like we used to back when we didn't shoot up our schools because we got teased. 

ETA: This would kill two birds with one stone. It would likely drastically reduce both school shootings and childhood obesity. 

[BuckSwope 654]

54 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

The 100's of millions of guns in private hands in this country that are never used in the commission of any crime is enough to tell sensible people that the issue is not a gun issue. 

If the left really wanted to keep kids safe at school, they would divert 1/10 of what they've sent to Ukraine and harden the security at every public school in the country. So far they've done nothing in that regard. :yawn:

 

That's correct. Sensible people can think past just stats on raw # of guns.  Sensible people can also admit there is likely a drastically different outcome if someone shows up to a school with a bag of guns and ammo vs a knife or baseball bats. 

[Hawkeye21 1,855]

We've always had a lot of guns in the US but mass shootings increased over the last 30 years.  It wasn't the guns that changed over the last 30 years, it was our culture.  Fix our culture and stop trying to change our rights.  Fix the real problem.