At 13 Baltimore City high schools, zero students tested proficient on 2023 state math exam

[RLLD 4,197]

44 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Baltimore city public schools are 73% black.

https://www.baltimorecityschools.org/district-overview

 

Perhaps we could find common ground here.   Based on the outcomes, would it not be suitable to assert there is a "systemic" problem likely behind this?

[BuckSwope 654]

48 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Beginning in the 1940s, deep demographic and economic change, accompanied by a marked shift in white racial attitudes, started blacks down the road to much greater equality. New Deal legislation, which set minimum wages and hours and eliminated the incentive of southern employers to hire low-wage black workers, put a damper on further industrial development in the region. In addition, the trend toward mechanized agriculture and a diminished demand for American cotton in the face of international competition combined to displace blacks from the land.

As a consequence, with the shortage of workers in northern manufacturing plants following the outbreak of World War II, southern blacks in search of jobs boarded trains and buses in a Great Migration that lasted through the mid-1960s. They found what they were looking for: wages so strikingly high that in 1953 the average income for a black family in the North was almost twice that of those who remained in the South. And through much of the 1950s wages rose steadily and unemployment was low.

Thus by 1960 only one out of seven black men still labored on the land, and almost a quarter were in white-collar or skilled manual occupations. Another 24 percent had semiskilled factory jobs that meant membership in the stable working class, while the proportion of black women working as servants had been cut in half. Even those who did not move up into higher-ranking jobs were doing much better.

A decade later, the gains were even more striking. From 1940 to 1970, black men cut the income gap by about a third, and by 1970 they were earning (on average) roughly 60 percent of what white men took in. The advancement of black women was even more impressive. Black life expectancy went up dramatically, as did black homeownership rates. Black college enrollment also rose—by 1970 to about 10 percent of the total, three times the prewar figure.

In subsequent years these trends continued, although at a more leisurely pace. For instance, today more than 30 percent of black men and nearly 60 percent of black women hold white-collar jobs. Whereas in 1970 only 2.2 percent of American physicians were black, the figure is now 4.5 percent. But while the fraction of black families with middle-class incomes rose almost 40 percentage points between 1940 and 1970, it has inched up only another 10 points since then.

Source

 

Going back to the 1960's, the "War on Drugs" was really more of a war on minorities.....and then the movement to pay women more in benefits to not have a man in the home, raised the single parent rate from 20% to 70%.   The policies were perhaps, I say perhaps because I am still highly suspicious of Democrats, employed with the best of intentions.....but the outcomes have been steadily negative.

Every action has been to try to twist the world to better fit the AA situation, instead of following the remarkably successful method as employed by other minority groups to adjust their behaviors and buy into the meritocracy approach.

 

One thing that stood out to me was that even during this financial gain for the black community the bolded was true.  I think that is an important thing to keep in mind, that even when we point to them making gains they were still things in the way and they were making a fraction of whites and if I remember right, the wealth gap was still not improving as much as the wages were.  Also not including in the info above during those years of wage increase were factors like redlining.  

That said, we largely agree here.   Things like:  factory jobs leaving, war on drugs, and wellfare policies have really decimated these communities.     BUT, again - that is true for poor white communities too.  We see jobs drying up, meth and other drugs spiking, and similar conditions coming into play.   It's not a black problem, it's a USA problem.   Telling blacks to fix their culture (not you, the overall sentiment I get from the right on the issue) address 0 of these things that we seem to agree have decimated communities.  

So this all boils down to what I think is more accurately happening - the 1% vs the rest of us, not R vs D.   Where are the incentives for either side to change when their profits are still rolling in bigly and they are on the correct side of the wealth gap?  

[RLLD 4,197]

Just now, BuckSwope said:

One thing that stood out to me was that even during this financial gain for the black community the bolded was true.  I think that is an important thing to keep in mind, that even when we point to them making gains they were still things in the way and they were making a fraction of whites and if I remember right, the wealth gap was still not improving as much as the wages were.  Also not including in the info above during those years of wage increase were factors like redlining.  

That said, we largely agree here.   Things like:  factory jobs leaving, war on drugs, and wellfare policies have really decimated these communities.     BUT, again - that is true for poor white communities too.  We see jobs drying up, meth and other drugs spiking, and similar conditions coming into play.   It's not a black problem, it's a USA problem.   Telling blacks to fix their culture (not you, the overall sentiment I get from the right on the issue) address 0 of these things that we seem to agree have decimated communities.  

So this all boils down to what I think is more accurately happening - the 1% vs the rest of us, not R vs D.   Where are the incentives for either side to change when their profits are still rolling in bigly and they are on the correct side of the wealth gap?  

Thats fine, and absolutely on point.  They were not "there" yet, it was going well and progress was transpiring.....but it was not sustained. That is more of the point I am making.

If it were true that we then see this same impact across the board, across lower incomes then we can work the problem from a class-centric approach (Marxist) if instead we decide that well, its happening because of the skin color of those impacted then we are working from another angle entirely.

Now if we can agree that skin color is not the cause, and its something else, then we are back to culture.  One of the more important "tells" here is that immigrants from Africa seem to avoid this spectral racism that is magically holding people back.  Why could that be happening? Because they do not carry the cultural baggage.....

Its not the color of their skin, its not genetic, its not white people being mean.......its a cultural malignancy....

[BuckSwope 654]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Thats fine, and absolutely on point.  They were not "there" yet, it was going well and progress was transpiring.....but it was not sustained. That is more of the point I am making.

If it were true that we then see this same impact across the board, across lower incomes then we can work the problem from a class-centric approach (Marxist) if instead we decide that well, its happening because of the skin color of those impacted then we are working from another angle entirely.

Now if we can agree that skin color is not the cause, and its something else, then we are back to culture.  One of the more important "tells" here is that immigrants from Africa seem to avoid this spectral racism that is magically holding people back.  Why could that be happening? Because they do not carry the cultural baggage.....

Its not the color of their skin, its not genetic, its not white people being mean.......its a cultural malignancy....

See, it feels we agree, then you keep hammering on this.    No, we are not IMO.   We just listed concrete reasons for most of these issues - war on drugs, welfare policies, no jobs.  Throw in poor schools and other things.    

Correct me if I am misinterpreting your post, but after the last 2 parts what I take your meaning to be is that in the dark end of the color spectrum, there are other "cultures" that are succeeding, so why can't the AA community?   I will wait for that one before going on, because this is 100% where the right loses me if that's what you are saying.  

[MDC 7,285]

I’m not totally discrediting culture as one of many reasons why AAs lag behind. But very few people would say that black culture was worse in the 50s or 60s than it is today. And yet AAs are doing dramatically better and have closed to some degree the income and even IQ gap in that time.

 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

30 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

No, it wasn't.  Instead of the Democrat leadership (locally and nationally), telling black people that they are victims and white conservatives hate them, how about taking the conservative approach and telling them that they aren't victims and that being more involved in their kids education will greatly improve their children's chances on a productive future.  That in turn will help their lives as well.

Do you think black people just listen to democrat leadership all day and can't think for themselves?  Come on man.  Most of these parents probably don't even know who their senators are.  They're too busy working and surviving.

Also, the Baltimore City Schools have resources available for parents.  Parents don't need conservatives to tell them to get more involved with their kids.

https://www.baltimorecityschools.org/family-university

Quote

Strong parent support and involvement is vital to the well-being and academic success of students. To help, City Schools’ Family University is a collection of quick-tip videos and resources for families designed to increase engagement while fostering academic success and social-emotional growth.

 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

the movement to pay women more in benefits to not have a man in the home, raised the single parent rate from 20% to 70%.   The policies were perhaps, I say perhaps because I am still highly suspicious of Democrats, employed with the best of intentions.....but the outcomes have been steadily negative.

 

So making men and women equal in the compensation scale was an attempt by Democrats to get fathers out of the house?

Come on man.

[TBayXXXVII 2,522]

5 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Do you think black people just listen to democrat leadership all day and can't think for themselves?  Come on man.  Most of these parents probably don't even know who their senators are.  They're too busy working and surviving.

Also, the Baltimore City Schools have resources available for parents.  Parents don't need conservatives to tell them to get more involved with their kids.

https://www.baltimorecityschools.org/family-university

 

Ok, so black people don't vote... it's only white people voting for Democrats and those policies and agenda's are having a greater negative impact on black lives?  

[RLLD 4,197]

4 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

See, it feels we agree, then you keep hammering on this.    No, we are not IMO.   We just listed concrete reasons for most of these issues - war on drugs, welfare policies, no jobs.  Throw in poor schools and other things.    

Correct me if I am misinterpreting your post, but after the last 2 parts what I take your meaning to be is that in the dark end of the color spectrum, there are other "cultures" that are succeeding, so why can't the AA community?   I will wait for that one before going on, because this is 100% where the right loses me if that's what you are saying.  

In the 1960's the AA culture was blossoming.   Until it was hit by forces outside of its control. There are so many examples; from the Black Panther Breakfast Program to Freedom Summer in Mississippi to the Student Organization for Black Unity.  These groups were all negatively impacted by government-centric actions, and what splintered off as a result was not good..... the LA gangs can trace their roots to the government destruction of the Black Panthers....

So much was going so well, and then government, mostly Democrats, moved in and took action.....the results are plainly evident.  They really harmed the culture, a harm that persists to this day.  Fix the culture, fix the family....and you fix the problem.

[TimHauck 2,725]

21 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Spoken like a true leftist.  Ignore ways to help and keep promoting things that won't, just so you can say that conservatives don't have answers.  You jump when your leftist masters tell you to, don't you?

I'm laughing because "talking to them" isn't a real solution, no matter how much you want to whine about "well they talk to them about being victims!!" which is a stupid whataboutism.

I'd agree with comments that just throwing money at the schools probably isn't the solution either, you need to fix the homes.  Things like assisting with job placement (for students or their families), transportation for extracurricular activities, providing breakfast or additional meals, maybe even childcare if needed.   Maybe some of these things are being done I'm not sure. 

[RLLD 4,197]

6 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

So making men and women equal in the compensation scale was an attempt by Democrats to get fathers out of the house?

Come on man.

How is paying a young woman who had a child more money to NOT have a man in the home, making anything equal? Notably for the child?

[BuckSwope 654]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

In the 1960's the AA culture was blossoming.   Until it was hit by forces outside of its control. There are so many examples; from the Black Panther Breakfast Program to Freedom Summer in Mississippi to the Student Organization for Black Unity.  These groups were all negatively impacted by government-centric actions, and what splintered off as a result was not good..... the LA gangs can trace their roots to the government destruction of the Black Panthers....

So much was going so well, and then government, mostly Democrats, moved in and took action.....the results are plainly evident.  They really harmed the culture, a harm that persists to this day.  Fix the culture, fix the family....and you fix the problem.

First, you didn't answer my question.   Second, it still seems like you are listing outside forces and government actions that changed their community(culture), but then are saying the answer is to fix the culture.   

If I tell you that A, B, and C led to D which is a negative outcome, it makes no sense for me to say the solution is to start with D and fix it.   

[TBayXXXVII 2,522]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I'm laughing because "talking to them" isn't a real solution, no matter how much you want to whine about "well they talk to them about being victims!!" which is a stupid whataboutism.

I'd agree with comments that just throwing money at the schools probably isn't the solution either, you need to fix the homes.  Things like assisting with job placement (for students or their families), transportation for extracurricular activities, providing breakfast or additional meals, maybe even childcare if needed.   Maybe some of these things are being done I'm not sure. 

It's the national message, not just have an open house for parents to come to a school.  At every turn, come Summer during election years, when we're bombarded with ads and what not, EVERY LIBERAL candidate is telling people how racist white conservatives are and how oppressed black people are.  You're going to tell me that over 70 years, that message hasn't ingrained itself in society?

 

[RLLD 4,197]

Just now, BuckSwope said:

First, you didn't answer my question.   Second, it still seems like you are listing outside forces and government actions that changed their community(culture), but then are saying the answer is to fix the culture.   

If I tell you that A, B, and C led to D which is a negative outcome, it makes no sense for me to say the solution is to start with D and fix it.   

The damage caused by Democrats is the cause of the cultural decay. It is not as if people woke up one day and said " you know what, we are making headway here....but fock it, lets abandon our progress and potential....."   That did not happen.  What happened was government, specifically Democrats, who swung in and methodically ruined a strong and robust culture.

[Baker Boy 1,694]

11 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

So making men and women equal in the compensation scale was an attempt by Democrats to get fathers out of the house?

Come on man.

How did this action make men and women equal in the compensation scale?

and yes it did just what it was intended to do, get the fathers out of the house and it was very successful.

Don’t be afraid to see what you see.

[TimHauck 2,725]

4 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

It's the national message, not just have an open house for parents to come to a school.  At every turn, come Summer during election years, when we're bombarded with ads and what not, EVERY LIBERAL candidate is telling people how racist white conservatives are and how oppressed black people are.  You're going to tell me that over 70 years, that message hasn't ingrained itself in society?

 

You watch too much Fox News man.  That isn't every liberal candidate's message.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

11 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Ok, so black people don't vote... it's only white people voting for Democrats and those policies and agenda's are having a greater negative impact on black lives?  

Where did I say black people don't vote?

What I said is that black people don't listen to their democratic state senators or whatever and probably can't name them.  Can you?  I certainly can't.  I vote, and I usually vote down the line Republican if I don't know anything about the person, but then forget their name as soon as I walk out of the booth.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,265]

4 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

You watch too much Fox News man.  That isn't every liberal candidate's message.

This guy. Thinks the “republicans are racist “ narrative doesn’t exist. You can always tell the ones that never had an actual discussion with black people. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

6 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

How did this action make men and women equal in the compensation scale?

and yes it did just what it was intended to do, get the fathers out of the house and it was very successful.

Don’t be afraid to see what you see.

How does closing the wage gap make things equal?  Hmm, I don't know, it's puzzling.

Focking retard.

If you think the govt increased women's wages so they could kick fathers out the house then you really have no hope of having any intellectual thoughts.

[BuckSwope 654]

6 minutes ago, RLLD said:

The damage caused by Democrats is the cause of the cultural decay. It is not as if people woke up one day and said " you know what, we are making headway here....but fock it, lets abandon our progress and potential....."   That did not happen.  What happened was government, specifically Democrats, who swung in and methodically ruined a strong and robust culture.

Ok, but it's that a government and policy issue, not a black culture issue?     Again you seem to be telling me we got here because of Democratic policies in the country, which slowed progress for blacks and eroded their thriving culture, but the solution is for blacks to fix their culture?   

That's where I said the right loses me.  For this conversation I will even let you blame it all on Dems (though you will have a hard time convincing me that something like the war on drugs isn't coming from both sides and they are both perfectly happy continuing that).   I feel like what you and others are saying is that the AA culture is crap BECAUSE of things like wellfare, no jobs, war on drugs, etc...  But the solution is for them, and only them, to fix their culture.    I truly don't get that line of reasoning . 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

17 minutes ago, RLLD said:

How is paying a young woman who had a child more money to NOT have a man in the home, making anything equal? Notably for the child?

I assume you're talking about govt assistance here and not employer wages?

You really think the govt wants black fathers out of the home and is encouraging black women to kick them out with financial incentives to do so?

 

 

 

holy sh1t this the amount of retarded ass holes in this focking thread.

[RLLD 4,197]

Just now, BuckSwope said:

Ok, but it's that a government and policy issue, not a black culture issue?     Again you seem to be telling me we got here because of Democratic policies in the country, which slowed progress for blacks and eroded their thriving culture, but the solution is for blacks to fix their culture?   

That's where I said the right loses me.  For this conversation I will even let you blame it all on Dems (though you will have a hard time convincing me that something like the war on drugs isn't coming from both sides and they are both perfectly happy continuing that).   I feel like what you and others are saying is that the AA culture is crap BECAUSE of things like wellfare, no jobs, war on drugs, etc...  But the solution is for them, and only them, to fix their culture.    I truly don't get that line of reasoning . 

Not sure how better to explain this.......AA culture was good.......government inserted itself......AA culture was damaged and has not recovered, mostly DUE TO GOVERNMENT......

So lets get a little deeper in the weeds on this then. Perhaps with some additional facts and reading. This is not a new or surprising element....

Only 9% of children were raised without their father in 1960, yet today a quarter of American kids are raised without their father. 

Family breakdown fuels poverty. On average, even high school dropouts who are married have a far lower poverty rate than do single parents with several years of college.

Raj Chetty has shown us that the presence of fathers in the neighborhood is  likely the key factor in predicting upward income mobility for the children in that neighborhood later in life, even when controlling for other variables such as the available schools, race, or ethnicity.

boys raised without their father are much more likely to use drugs, engage in violent or criminal behavior, go to jail, and drop out of school; girls, meanwhile, are more likely to engage in early sexual activity or have a child out of wedlock. Children without a father in the home are even more likely to suffer from mental health problems as adults.

Autor and Figlio studied and rejected the idea that these effects are mainly due to dangerous neighborhoods or poor schools. They concluded that “neighborhoods and schools are less important than the ‘direct effect of family structure itself.

It is important to realize that things weren’t always so. The black American family provides a stark example. From 1890 to 1950, black women had a higher marriage rate than white women. And in 1950, just 9% of black children lived without their father. By 1960, the black marriage rate had declined but remained close to the white marriage rate. In other words, despite open racism and widespread poverty, strong black families used to be the norm.

But by the mid-1980s, black fatherlessness skyrocketed. Today, only 44% of black children have a father in the home. In unison, the rate of black out-of-wedlock births went from 24.5% in 1964 to 70.7% by 1994, roughly where it stands today.

Why?  In large part because the government fomented anti-marriage policies    This has been documented over and over....

 

[TimHauck 2,725]

6 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Where did I say black people don't vote?

What I said is that black people don't listen to their democratic state senators or whatever and probably can't name them.  Can you?  I certainly can't.  I vote, and I usually vote down the line Republican if I don't know anything about the person, but then forget their name as soon as I walk out of the booth.

Baltimore city had the 4th lowest voter turnout of any county in Maryland in 2022.

https://elections.maryland.gov/press_room/2022_stats/Official by Party and County.pdf

 

[Baker Boy 1,694]

5 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

How does closing the wage gap make things equal?  Hmm, I don't know, it's puzzling.

Focking retard.

If you think the govt increased women's wages so they could kick fathers out the house then you really have no hope of having any intellectual thoughts.

It had nothing to do with the wage gap. We are talking about welfare and government handouts to unmarried women with children. Try to keep up.

Once gain, how did this close the wage gap?

[RLLD 4,197]

5 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

I assume you're talking about govt assistance here and not employer wages?

You really think the govt wants black fathers out of the home and is encouraging black women to kick them out with financial incentives to do so?

 

 

 

holy sh1t this the amount of retarded ass holes in this focking thread.

Correct. This thread is not about wages, but failed policies that have ruined the AA culture to the extent that it seems incapable of correcting itself without considerable help.

The original intent of the policy was to ensure AA fathers were working, seems odd right? Why would Democrats think AA men would not work?   And moreover, the incentive was strong.  The estimateis that in  1975 a household head would have to earn $20,000 a year to have more resources than what could be obtained from Great Society programs. In today’s dollars, that’s over $90,000 per year in earnings.  Hey, that is great, single moms rejoice....but what was the cost? I think we now know....

That may be a reason why, in 1964, only 7% of American children were born out of wedlock, compared to 40% today. Jason Riley has noted, “the government paid mothers to keep fathers out of the home—and paid them well.”

None of this is unknown, its not that complex. 

[BuckSwope 654]

Dude, we agree on the stats.   I understand all those points perfectly well.   I know the stats on fathers in the black communities.   

But, yet again - you just listed reasons for this:  welfare incentives, war on drugs and high incarcaration rates, etc.     These are the CAUSES of that family unit to decay, so why in the world are we just telling them to fix their family unit without talking about and fixing those causes?    It's also not exclusive to the black community - you see similar issues and stats in other poor communities hit with drugs, lack of education, and lack of jobs and options.    Black communities were just hit harder for reasons we discussed.  

I feel the right just say "blacks need to fix their culture, problem solved" when:  1. it's not just affecting them, and 2.  that doesn't address the causes of the erosion of the culture.   

[RLLD 4,197]

Just now, BuckSwope said:

Dude, we agree on the stats.   I understand all those points perfectly well.   I know the stats on fathers in the black communities.   

But, yet again - you just listed reasons for this:  welfare incentives, war on drugs and high incarcaration rates, etc.     These are the CAUSES of that family unit to decay, so why in the world are we just telling them to fix their family unit without talking about and fixing those causes?    It's also not exclusive to the black community - you see similar issues and stats in other poor communities hit with drugs, lack of education, and lack of jobs and options.    Black communities were just hit harder for reasons we discussed.  

I feel the right just say "blacks need to fix their culture, problem solved" when:  1. it's not just affecting them, and 2.  that doesn't address the causes of the erosion of the culture.   

But....  I AM saying.....to fix those things....that is core to my assertion.   Government needs to get the fock out of the way, stop hurting these people. AND.....we need to fix it....that means starting with the family, as I have said...over....and over.... and over......    culture is the umbrella statement to this.  

We start at the family level........we help the parents do their job, we wring out all of the cultural decay.....we fix this at the grass roots...

Now, that is part of it. We cannot ignore the people that have already been harmed, are entering high school and beyond. They need some help as well. But the elements celebrated by AA culture are not helping, they are hurting....

[seafoam1 2,922]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

So, you agree with not making it more difficult to get abortions?

No. How about using protection. It's not that difficult. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

13 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

It had nothing to do with the wage gap. We are talking about welfare and government handouts to unmarried women with children. Try to keep up.

Once gain, how did this close the wage gap?

RLLD was talking about rising incomes, so I thought thats what he was referring to.  Reading it back again, I can see how he was talking about govt benefits, so then I was wrong.

Still, the govt did not incentivize black women to kick their kids fathers out of the house so they can make some extra scratch.  That's asinine.

[RLLD 4,197]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

RLLD was talking about rising incomes, so I thought thats what he was referring to.  Reading it back again, I can see how he was talking about govt benefits, so then I was wrong.

Still, the govt did not incentivize black women to kick their kids fathers out of the house so they can make some extra scratch.  That's asinine.

And yet, I can (and have) provided sourcing for that assertion.  Yet, all you have is....."well, you're stupid".......not exactly a response....is it?

[TimHauck 2,725]

5 minutes ago, RLLD said:

But....  I AM saying.....to fix those things....that is core to my assertion.   Government needs to get the fock out of the way, stop hurting these people. AND.....we need to fix it....that means starting with the family, as I have said...over....and over.... and over......    culture is the umbrella statement to this.  

We start at the family level........we help the parents do their job, we wring out all of the cultural decay.....we fix this at the grass roots...

Now, that is part of it. We cannot ignore the people that have already been harmed, are entering high school and beyond. They need some help as well. But the elements celebrated by AA culture are not helping, they are hurting....

How do you help the parents do their job, particularly if you're saying for the government to get out of the way?

[RLLD 4,197]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

How do you help the parents do their job, particularly if you're saying for the government to get out of the way?

Rather than incentivize the absence of fathers, incentivize their presence.  How about we start with that?  Seem like a place where you and I can agree? If government is to be involved, how about we do smart things and not stupid ones....

[BuckSwope 654]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

But....  I AM saying.....to fix those things....that is core to my assertion.   Government needs to get the fock out of the way, stop hurting these people. AND.....we need to fix it....that means starting with the family, as I have said...over....and over.... and over......    culture is the umbrella statement to this.  

We start at the family level........we help the parents do their job, we wring out all of the cultural decay.....we fix this at the grass roots...

Now, that is part of it. We cannot ignore the people that have already been harmed, are entering high school and beyond. They need some help as well. But the elements celebrated by AA culture are not helping, they are hurting....

Ok, we are more in agreement then.    Do you agree that the AND part is largely missing from the right side of the aisle and around these parts?  

We might just agree on the order we need to do those things.  My worldview leans more environment vs. actions so if I had to start it would be on the fixing those issues less on the telling them to get dads in the house.   

Also, I have seen some interesting stats about Dad involvement in the racial communities, and they have been surprising.  Things like average time spent with kids reading and other things.  It's not like black dads don't want to be involved any less.  As you say there are policies in place to limit them being under the same roof.  

[TimHauck 2,725]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Rather than incentivize the absence of fathers, incentivize their presence.  How about we start with that?  Seem like a place where you and I can agree? If government is to be involved, how about we do smart things and not stupid ones....

What are you suggesting?  Have the government pay people to stay married?

[RLLD 4,197]

Just now, BuckSwope said:

Ok, we are more in agreement then.    Do you agree that the AND part is largely missing from the right side of the aisle and around these parts?  

We might just agree on the order we need to do those things.  My worldview leans more environment vs. actions so if I had to start it would be on the fixing those issues less on the telling them to get dads in the house.   

Also, I have seen some interesting stats about Dad involvement in the racial communities, and they have been surprising.  Things like average time spent with kids reading and other things.  It's not like black dads don't want to be involved any less.  As you say there are policies in place to limit them being under the same roof.  

My assertion is that conservatives have the better solutions, and the liberal solutions have already emphatically demonstrated they do not work.  Part of my delight with Mr. Trump was his apparent outcome to employ AA's at high rates, I was absolutely excited by the benefit that part could do alone....

So I think the move here should be to continue welfare support, and you know what, keep helping single mothers by all means, but make it more profitable to have a two-parent situation. 

How about we start with that?

[BuckSwope 654]

7 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

RLLD was talking about rising incomes, so I thought thats what he was referring to.  Reading it back again, I can see how he was talking about govt benefits, so then I was wrong.

Still, the govt did not incentivize black women to kick their kids fathers out of the house so they can make some extra scratch.  That's asinine.

There are many cases where they aren't allowed to be back in the household - ex cons for example.   There are some things that need to be teased out of the simple "single mom black household" stats.  Much higher rates of death and incarceration mixed with welfare incentives and things like I just mentioned.    But the narrative quickly turns into their community wanting and celebrating this as a whole.  

[RLLD 4,197]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

What are you suggesting?  Have the government pay people to stay married?

Almost.   We are already paying women to have children out of wedlock.  So if we agree that a two-parent solution is superior, then lets create a further incentive for two-parent homes.  I assure you we see two-parent situations soar.....and with it the prosperity of lower income people, everywhere,.....but more pointedly in the AA community. 

[Baker Boy 1,694]

14 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

RLLD was talking about rising incomes, so I thought thats what he was referring to.  Reading it back again, I can see how he was talking about govt benefits, so then I was wrong.

Still, the govt did not incentivize black women to kick their kids fathers out of the house so they can make some extra scratch.  That's asinine.

This is not about Black women but legislation to incentivize poor people to not get married. This falls in line with the Democratic goal of replacing the  traditional American family. It seems it was very successful if you look at the statistics.

This is also one of the goal of Black Lives Matter as stated in their original mission statement.

[RLLD 4,197]

On 9/19/2023 at 11:55 AM, Fireballer said:

What is the incentive for inner city youth to work hard and do well in school?

Make one...... really..... lets create one.

If that is what it takes. The rest will follow.

[RLLD 4,197]

3 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

This is not about Black women but legislation to incentivize poor people not getting married. This falls in line with the Democratic goal of replacing them with traditional American family.

This is also one of the goal of Black Lives Matter as stated in their original mission statement.

BLM professes to be Marxist.  Now Marx himself was devoted to the breaking down of delineations he saw as pointless.  He saw carpeters in Germany killing carpenters in France and he postulated....why? You guys are carpenters.  And that is more important than some governmental line in the sand. The people making you fight sure arent out there killing each other......

So Marx was a globalist. He wanted class to be the delineation, gobally.  Now modern liberals embracing Marxism ususally refer to this as "ugly marxism" because of the abscence of intersectionality.  This is BLM.   Taking what was once a reasonable and  useful approach. and poisoning it.