This economy is so bad

[RLLD 4,199]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

Wait… is @RLLD trying to argue that corporate greed was not a factor in inflation the past few years?

This wasn’t an issue before Biden fomented and inflamed inflation.

Inflation is not corporate greed it is financial incompetence on the part of policy.

[RLLD 4,199]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I remember the good old days before corporate greed. Back then they would keep the prices low to be nice. When America was great.

lol….yeah, because government never rocks it up….its always those big meanie companies!!!

[TimHauck 2,727]

13 minutes ago, RLLD said:

This wasn’t an issue before Biden fomented and inflamed inflation.

Inflation is not corporate greed it is financial incompetence on the part of policy.

I’ll agree with this somewhat.   The inflation that started due to Covid and Biden made worse was so high, that corporations were able to be even more greedy than usual and pass it off as “but inflation!”

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

18 minutes ago, RLLD said:

This wasn’t an issue before Biden fomented and inflamed inflation.

Inflation is not corporate greed it is financial incompetence on the part of policy.

Clowzno has promised all kinds of lovely new tariffs, which will send the stock market into the crapper, spark a fresh inflation wave and put businesses out of business.

[RLLD 4,199]

11 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Clowzno has promised all kinds of lovely new tariffs, which will send the stock market into the crapper, spark a fresh inflation wave and put businesses out of business.

Except that is not how it works at all. Tariffs have been in use for a rather long time so we have some evidence that what you posted is not an accurate guess

[RLLD 4,199]

18 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I’ll agree with this somewhat.   The inflation that started due to Covid and Biden made worse was so high, that corporations were able to be even more greedy than usual and pass it off as “but inflation!”

Inflation forces markets to react, it’s not greed, it’s the passing of the tax created by government to the consumer, which is how it’s done. 
but when government creates extravagant inflation, it shows up in costs.

It is an occasional tactic to blame corporations. But we should not let politicians escape culpability through that lie.

 

[TimHauck 2,727]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Inflation forces markets to react, it’s not greed, it’s the passing of the tax created by government to the consumer, which is how it’s done. 
but when government creates extravagant inflation, it shows up in costs.

It is an occasional tactic to blame corporations. But we should not let politicians escape culpability through that lie.

 

Record profits from many corporations show that yes, greed was a factor.

[thegeneral 3,121]

6 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Inflation forces markets to react, it’s not greed, it’s the passing of the tax created by government to the consumer, which is how it’s done. 
but when government creates extravagant inflation, it shows up in costs.

It is an occasional tactic to blame corporations. But we should not let politicians escape culpability through that lie.

 

Corporate Greed wasn’t a factor 

What a sweet kid.

[RLLD 4,199]

4 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Record profits from many corporations show that yes, greed was a factor.

Inflation caused prices to rise, that is the government’s fault. They should know better. Markets behave predictably, this was what many called out when they were foolishly mismanaging

[RLLD 4,199]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

Corporate Greed wasn’t a factor 

What a sweet kid.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/15/business/inflation-biden-rate-fed/index.html
correct, even CNN won’t lie about it

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

41 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Except that is not how it works at all. Tariffs have been in use for a rather long time so we have some evidence that what you posted is not an accurate guess

Not a guess, boyo.

[seafoam1 2,922]

3 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Not a guess, boyo.

"Boyo" 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

7 hours ago, RLLD said:

Except that is not how it works at all. Tariffs have been in use for a rather long time so we have some evidence that what you posted is not an accurate guess

Except it is.  Tariffs raise prices for consumers.  A 10% across the board tariff will cost families $1700 year.

https://www.piie.com/publications/policy-briefs/2024/why-trumps-tariff-proposals-would-harm-working-americans

[RLLD 4,199]

44 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Except it is.  Tariffs raise prices for consumers.  A 10% across the board tariff will cost families $1700 year.

https://www.piie.com/publications/policy-briefs/2024/why-trumps-tariff-proposals-would-harm-working-americans

Except its not, because you have alternatives to tariffed goods, good lord people, have NONE of you taken a single course in economics? I mean, is this really what people think??

[GutterBoy 2,899]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Except its not, because you have alternatives to tariffed goods, good lord people, have NONE of you taken a single course in economics? I mean, is this really what people think??

This is econ101.  It's a consumer tax.  If you're gonna argue it's not then there is no point continuing.

[RLLD 4,199]

5 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

This is econ101.  It's a consumer tax.  If you're gonna argue it's not then there is no point continuing.

So then, you concede that government policy that raises prices is a tax......right?

[GutterBoy 2,899]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

So then, you concede that government policy that raises prices is a tax......right?

Here we go moving the goal posts.

Again, if you don't understand that a tariff is a tax then you're not smart enough to discuss economics.

[TimHauck 2,727]

8 hours ago, RLLD said:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/15/business/inflation-biden-rate-fed/index.html
correct, even CNN won’t lie about it

That Fed analysis is just saying it’s not a “main driver.”  I’d agree with that, but it certainly contributed. Even their chart shows that there was a significant increase vs the norm following 2020, but their commentary was that it was “in line with other recovery periods.”

[GutterBoy 2,899]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

That Fed analysis is just saying it’s not a “main driver.”  I’d agree with that, but it certainly contributed. Even their chart shows that there was a significant increase vs the norm following 2020, but their commentary was that it was “in line with other recovery periods.”

No one is going to claim it's the main driver, but it was/is a factor.  You're seeing now some corps backing down on prices after they raked in record profits.

RLLD didn't even know a tariff is a tax.  He also thinks this is the worst economy in our lifetime.  He's a clown.

[RLLD 4,199]

7 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Here we go moving the goal posts.

Again, if you don't understand that a tariff is a tax then you're not smart enough to discuss economics.

Of course it is a tax.....so is inflation....but there is a distinction, which is why I did not complain about Biden leaving those tariffs in place, since unlike inflation they target a market for protection, and allow consumers to make choices.

Now...if you want to debate the implementation, instead of this false equivalence. Maybe we juxtapose elements of its strategic use over time....talk about the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, The Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act, The Trade Act of 1974......

I mean, its fine and dandy that you suddenly have this awakening to something we have been doing since 1789.... and care about people paying more for things....

But....if you feel that strongly about it.....great....asking Biden to change his policy

[RLLD 4,199]

16 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

That Fed analysis is just saying it’s not a “main driver.”  I’d agree with that, but it certainly contributed. Even their chart shows that there was a significant increase vs the norm following 2020, but their commentary was that it was “in line with other recovery periods.”

Correct....which is all I have said, pretending its "the thing" is something we have seen Biden do....it is part of a multi-variate composite.   Is it worth pursuing, no....its not.....instead we need to focus on monetary policy.....

[RLLD 4,199]

18 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

No one is going to claim it's the main driver, but it was/is a factor.  You're seeing now some corps backing down on prices after they raked in record profits.

RLLD didn't even know a tariff is a tax.  He also thinks this is the worst economy in our lifetime.  He's a clown.

Lie..... but thats ok, 

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

26 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

That Fed analysis is just saying it’s not a “main driver.”  I’d agree with that, but it certainly contributed. Even their chart shows that there was a significant increase vs the norm following 2020, but their commentary was that it was “in line with other recovery periods.”

Man you could have saved yourself a few posts by reading my exchange with RLLD last week where we covered the same ground. 

I mentioned "corporate greed" as like the 4th or 5th factor in inflation. RLLD posted a Youtube video from some dude in his basement Cliff Notes-ing a federal report mentioned in the CNN article that was in line with what I said. RLLD then argued with me for multiple posts not realizing he was proving me right time and again. It was a fun time to be alive. 

[RLLD 4,199]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Man you could have saved yourself a few posts by reading my exchange with RLLD last week where we covered the same ground. 

I mentioned "corporate greed" as like the 4th or 5th factor in inflation. RLLD posted a Youtube video from some dude in his basement Cliff Notes-ing a federal report mentioned in the CNN article that was in line with what I said. RLLD then argued with me for multiple posts not realizing he was proving me right time and again. It was a fun time to be alive. 

It might help if you posted a link to that conversation, notably your initial post on the topic.  

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

It might help if you posted a link to that conversation, notably your initial post on the topic.  

It's in the thread...people can click some buttons. 

But my initial post on page 55 was this:

Quote

 

It would be more genuine to say- we had two presidents flush money through the system as a means of preventing an economic downfall in the wake of COVID. As of now we have not had an economic recession.

Also, when you pump money in it was always going to create inflation on the back end and mess with interest, and by proxy, mortgage rates. There are some positive signs there but obviously not as much or as quickly as anyone would like.

I do think we also need to blame corporations some here for artificially keeping prices on things high (although we are seeing some companies like Wal-Mart and Target start to roll back prices again on items).

 

So we are in this mess because of two parties, two presidents, a pandemic, and corporate greed. 

 

2 parties

2 presidents

pandemic

corporate greed

So 6th on my list. HTH

[RLLD 4,199]

Perfect!  Thank you.  

[GutterBoy 2,899]

58 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Of course it is a tax.....so is inflation....but there is a distinction, which is why I did not complain about Biden leaving those tariffs in place, since unlike inflation they target a market for protection, and allow consumers to make choices.

Now...if you want to debate the implementation, instead of this false equivalence. Maybe we juxtapose elements of its strategic use over time....talk about the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, The Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act, The Trade Act of 1974......

I mean, its fine and dandy that you suddenly have this awakening to something we have been doing since 1789.... and care about people paying more for things....

But....if you feel that strongly about it.....great....asking Biden to change his policy

Inflation is not a tax.  Inflation might act like a tax, but it's not a tax.

I generally am pro free trade with certain exceptions.  A 10% across the board tax on every imported good will certainly hurt US consumers.  This is what Trump wants to do.

[RLLD 4,199]

2 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Inflation is not a tax.  Inflation might act like a tax, but it's not a tax.

I generally am pro free trade with certain exceptions.  A 10% across the board tax on every imported good will certainly hurt US consumers.  This is what Trump wants to do.

Inflation is a tax.....and I think you know it.... its taxation by other means.  Tariffs are usually more targeted, but I will wait to see what actual policy is pursued.....it is unwise to accept politicians statements without scrutiny of course. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Inflation is a tax.....and I think you know it.... its taxation by other means.  Tariffs are usually more targeted, but I will wait to see what actual policy is pursued.....it is unwise to accept politicians statements without scrutiny of course. 

It acts as a tax but it's not a tax.

Trump's tariff proposal is 10% tax across the board, not targeted, and definitely a tax against everyone.  You talk about the importance of policy, this is his policy.  I know you don't support it but you support the man so you'll claim how it's good.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,266]

5 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

It acts as a tax but it's not a tax.

Trump's tariff proposal is 10% tax across the board, not targeted, and definitely a tax against everyone.  You talk about the importance of policy, this is his policy.  I know you don't support it but you support the man so you'll claim how it's good.

Across the board? I heard him say it’s if countries don’t behave and honor their agreements. Where did you get it was across the board? 

[The Real timschochet 6,638]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

Of course it is a tax.....so is inflation....but there is a distinction, which is why I did not complain about Biden leaving those tariffs in place, since unlike inflation they target a market for protection, and allow consumers to make choices.

Now...if you want to debate the implementation, instead of this false equivalence. Maybe we juxtapose elements of its strategic use over time....talk about the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, The Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act, The Trade Act of 1974......

I mean, its fine and dandy that you suddenly have this awakening to something we have been doing since 1789.... and care about people paying more for things....

But....if you feel that strongly about it.....great....asking Biden to change his policy

Biden’s decision to maintain Trump’s tariffs (and in some cases even increase them) has been the worst aspect of his Presidency by far, and nothing else even comes close. However Trump’s new plans will be even worse. 
 

Inflation is not a tax. Taxes are deliberate. 

[The Real timschochet 6,638]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Across the board? I heard him say it’s if countries don’t behave and honor their agreements. Where did you get it was across the board? 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-08-24/supply-chain-latest-trump-proposes-universal-10-tariff
 

Pay attention to the word “universal”. All countries. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,266]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-08-24/supply-chain-latest-trump-proposes-universal-10-tariff
 

Pay attention to the word “universal”. All countries. 

First of all, Krugman. One of the worst. Dismissed, history of failure. Still not seeing where Trump said he would do that without cause. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

13 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Across the board? I heard him say it’s if countries don’t behave and honor their agreements. Where did you get it was across the board? 

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/22/trumps-proposed-10percent-tariff-plan-would-shake-up-every-asset-class-strategist.html

[GutterBoy 2,899]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

First of all, Krugman. One of the worst. Dismissed, history of failure. Still not seeing where Trump said he would do that without cause. 

Former President Donald Trump is going beyond his initial proposal of 10% tariffs on all imports, telling an interviewer that levies could climb higher if he wins the White House in November.

“It may be more than that,” Trump told Time magazine in an interview when asked about plans for a 10% tariff on all imports and a more than 60% tariff on Chinese imports.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-suggests-tariffs-could-go-higher-than-10-why-one-economist-is-saying-bonkers-917e5d34

[The Real timschochet 6,638]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

First of all, Krugman. One of the worst. Dismissed, history of failure. Still not seeing where Trump said he would do that without cause. 

Then you’re blind. What can I say? 

[RLLD 4,199]

18 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

It acts as a tax but it's not a tax.

Trump's tariff proposal is 10% tax across the board, not targeted, and definitely a tax against everyone.  You talk about the importance of policy, this is his policy.  I know you don't support it but you support the man so you'll claim how it's good.

Agree. I think you and I likely agree more on this topic than we disagree.

I think there are elements of seigniorage that can be good and bad.  And the debate about it being a form of tax is well tread....

Tariffs are sometimes needed, I think it notable that Biden retained them while he reversed so many other Trump policies...

[GutterBoy 2,899]

Quote

 

Let’s shift to the economy, sir. You have floated a 10% tariff on all imports, and a more than 60% tariff on Chinese imports. Can I just ask you now: Is that your plan?

Trump: It may be more than that. It may be a derivative of that. A derivative of that. But it will be somebody—look when they come in and they steal our jobs, and they steal our wealth, they steal our country.

When you say more than that, though: You mean maybe more than 10% on all imports?

Trump: More than 10%, yeah. I call it a ring around the country. We have a ring around the country. A reciprocal tax also, in addition to what we said. And if we do that, the numbers are staggering. I don't believe it will have much of an effect because they're making so much money off of us. I also don't believe that the costs will go up that much. And a lot of people say, “Oh, that's gonna be a tax on us.” I don't believe that. I think it's a tax on the country that's doing it. And I know.

 

https://time.com/6972022/donald-trump-transcript-2024-election/

[RLLD 4,199]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Biden’s decision to maintain Trump’s tariffs (and in some cases even increase them) has been the worst aspect of his Presidency by far, and nothing else even comes close. However Trump’s new plans will be even worse. 
 

Inflation is not a tax. Taxes are deliberate. 

I am gratified he did so, sound economic policy is not something Biden has done with abundance, that he retained these elements is something I will praise him for. Inflation is a tax, but not a direct one.  We might diverge on the definition of tax, but seigniorage is actually taxation....

[Hardcore troubadour 15,266]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Then you’re blind. What can I say? 

I don’t think so.  Trump wants other countries to open up their trade to us like we do to them. If they don’t, he will tariff them like they do. I like it. Why don’t you?