RLLD 3,455 Posted January 12 Yemen’s Houthi rebels vowed fierce retaliation Friday for American and British strikes against them, further raising the prospect of a wider conflict in a region already beset by Israel’s war in Gaza. Quote The bombardment — launched in response to a recent campaign of drone and missile attacks on commercial ships in the vital Red Sea — killed at least five people and wounded six, the Houthis said. I have spent time in that area, and around those people. I have some simple thoughts on this. 1) They are fierce fighters, notably in their environment. Trying to fight them on their own terrain would be unwise. 2) They are warm and welcoming if you are their friend. They love to sit and enjoy tea and it is as much about the experience as it is the tea. 3) They LOVE their weapons, and I mean.....they focking love them, as if they are family. They hand these things down, and care for them as if they are children..... 4) Loyal to power, as the power shifts....so too will their loyalty so you simply must be constantly engaged with them; not just to secure loyalty, but to know when it shifts before they decide.....to let you know..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Hunt 154 Posted January 12 33 minutes ago, RLLD said: Yemen’s Houthi rebels vowed fierce retaliation Friday for American and British strikes against them, further raising the prospect of a wider conflict in a region already beset by Israel’s war in Gaza. I have spent time in that area, and around those people. I have some simple thoughts on this. 1) They are fierce fighters, notably in their environment. Trying to fight them on their own terrain would be unwise. 2) They are warm and welcoming if you are their friend. They love to sit and enjoy tea and it is as much about the experience as it is the tea. 3) They LOVE their weapons, and I mean.....they focking love them, as if they are family. They hand these things down, and care for them as if they are children..... 4) Loyal to power, as the power shifts....so too will their loyalty so you simply must be constantly engaged with them; not just to secure loyalty, but to know when it shifts before they decide.....to let you know..... They attack random shipping vessels with weapons and hundreds of drones..did they expect there never to be a response by anyone? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,455 Posted January 12 12 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said: They attack random shipping vessels with weapons and hundreds of drones..did they expect there never to be a response by anyone? They do not care...... its about provoking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 1,416 Posted January 12 What’s the point of spending 10x the next 5 countries on Defense if some dudes in shacks think they get to launch drones at ships in one of the most important shipping canals in the world? Tried to let these dudes co-exist but that didn’t work. Let’s try the stick for a bit. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Hunt 154 Posted January 12 7 minutes ago, RLLD said: They do not care...... its about provoking. They got what they wanted. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted January 12 18 minutes ago, thegeneral said: What’s the point of spending 10x the next 5 countries on Defense if some dudes in shacks think they get to launch drones at ships in one of the most important shipping canals in the world? Tried to let these dudes co-exist but that didn’t work. Let’s try the stick for a bit. Sure, but isn't the stick in this case regional war in the ME? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 1,416 Posted January 12 6 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: Sure, but isn't the stick in this case regional war in the ME? If the alternative is these asssholes lobbing shet at our ships I think you have to step up to the plate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted January 12 1 hour ago, thegeneral said: If the alternative is these asssholes lobbing shet at our ships I think you have to step up to the plate. I think the better alternative was forcing Israel to call a cease fire or at the very least using the fact that we are supplying the war for them to act differently. This seems to be very different, in that it's lining up to be basically US + Israel vs. the rest of the world. We know they (everybody in the ME) want to drag us into war, and they are currently using the situation in Gaza for justification. They will have more ammo (pun intended) IF it's ruled that Israel is in fact committing war crimes in the process and we are doing nothing to stop it either. It's getting bad when our other allies and even the Saudi's are getting behind South Africa on this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 1,416 Posted January 12 3 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: I think the better alternative was forcing Israel to call a cease fire or at the very least using the fact that we are supplying the war for them to act differently. This seems to be very different, in that it's lining up to be basically US + Israel vs. the rest of the world. We know they (everybody in the ME) want to drag us into war, and they are currently using the situation in Gaza for justification. They will have more ammo (pun intended) IF it's ruled that Israel is in fact committing war crimes in the process and we are doing nothing to stop it either. It's getting bad when our other allies and even the Saudi's are getting behind South Africa on this. This is fair. You can do both of these I would say - lean on Israel to slow their roll while allowing them to have some form of vengeance. But once our ships are being fired on it is time to blow some shet up. You can’t let that go without any response. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted January 12 11 minutes ago, thegeneral said: This is fair. You can do both of these I would say - lean on Israel to slow their roll while allowing them to have some form of vengeance. But once our ships are being fired on it is time to blow some shet up. You can’t let that go without any response. We seem incapable of doing any of this though, which is infuriating to me. One of the random podcasts I listen to (pretty sure Krystal and Saager) said yesterday Biden hasn't talked to Netanyahu in about 3 weeks? I hope I heard wrong. So my retort is no, I guess we can't do both of these. Let's be real - we have all the power to tell countries like Ukraine and Israel to do what we want. It's no secret (especially to the rest of the world) that this is our money and weapons being used. That we don't and we seem to be more than willing to let them treat the situation like a blank check with no questions asked it has to be the end goal for us too. Is it simply the war machine and profits over people, or are there other explanations? I was just pointing out the obvious - us saying it's "time to blow some sh1t up" = escalating war and bringing Hezbollah, Iran, etc. into the mix as well. That is not ideal either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 1,416 Posted January 12 5 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: We seem incapable of doing any of this though, which is infuriating to me. One of the random podcasts I listen to (pretty sure Krystal and Saager) said yesterday Biden hasn't talked to Netanyahu in about 3 weeks? I hope I heard wrong. So my retort is no, I guess we can't do both of these. Let's be real - we have all the power to tell countries like Ukraine and Israel to do what we want. It's no secret (especially to the rest of the world) that this is our money and weapons being used. That we don't and we seem to be more than willing to let them treat the situation like a blank check with no questions asked it has to be the end goal for us too. Is it simply the war machine and profits over people, or are there other explanations? I was just pointing out the obvious - us saying it's "time to blow some sh1t up" = escalating war and bringing Hezbollah, Iran, etc. into the mix as well. That is not ideal either. I don’t know how podcasters are aware of the President’s complete communication with other countries. They can be told something but that doesn’t mean it is true. I would hope there is dialogue happening. Agreed that would be disappointing if true. No one is going to take Israel’s support away. That is a reality. So yeah I think Netanyahu would call that bluff. The bottom line of this question though is what is the proper response here to the Houthis (Iran). For me that is…If we get fired at repeatedly then it is time to blow shet up. You work backwards from there in terms of escalation. But this is a starting point once they do this. Ships have to be able to travel safely through the Red Sea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, thegeneral said: I don’t know how podcasters are aware of the President’s complete communication with other countries. They can be told something but that doesn’t mean it is true. I would hope there is dialogue happening. Agreed that would be disappointing if true. No one is going to take Israel’s support away. That is a reality. So yeah I think Netanyahu would call that bluff. The bottom line of this question though is what is the proper response here to the Houthis (Iran). For me that is…If we get fired at repeatedly then it is time to blow shet up. You work backwards from there in terms of escalation. But this is a starting point once they do this. Ships have to be able to travel safely through the Red Sea. Read: the US is not going to take support away. That is the core of the problem. For whatever reason we are behind them 100%, no questions asked, we can't/don't want to do anything about it. We are seeing other countries' support waning because of methods in Gaza, which is why I say this feels to me very different than other wars have gotten ourselves into. It feels like it's largely setting up as US + Israel vs the ME at least. Currently we won't have much backing if we retaliate vs. the Houthi's because much of the world sees Israel in the wrong and us right beside them and very much responsible. I agree, we can't let them fire on us at will, but the consequences are dire when we do so, IMO. We shouldn't be in this position in the first place is where my main beef lines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lickin_starfish 1,483 Posted January 12 I wonder if any Houthi rebels have wandered across our wide open borders? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 1,416 Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: Read: the US is not going to take support away. That is the core of the problem. For whatever reason we are behind them 100%, no questions asked, we can't/don't want to do anything about it. We are seeing other countries' support waning because of methods in Gaza, which is why I say this feels to me very different than other wars have gotten ourselves into. It feels like it's largely setting up as US + Israel vs the ME at least. Currently we won't have much backing if we retaliate vs. the Houthi's because much of the world sees Israel in the wrong and us right beside them and very much responsible. I agree, we can't let them fire on us at will, but the consequences are dire when we do so, IMO. We shouldn't be in this position in the first place is where my main beef lines. It’s always dicey and no one really knows what is going to happen which is obviously not ideal. This response is appropriate and now we see. This attack on Israel is beyond description. 9/11 type event. Everyone should agree there. There is no perfect response. Captain Obvious statement of the year and all there. I will defer to people who have spent more time on this subject but Netanyahu is a problem from what I see and read. Him being gone would be a positive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted January 12 6 minutes ago, thegeneral said: It’s always dicey and no one really knows what is going to happen which is obviously not ideal. This response is appropriate and now we see. This attack on Israel is beyond description. 9/11 type event. Everyone should agree there. There is no perfect response. Captain Obvious statement of the year and all there. I will defer to people who have spent more time on this subject but Netanyahu is a problem from what I see and read. Him being gone would be a positive. 100%, and so he has all the reason in the world to keep war going. As soon as it stops he is out and has to answer for some things. I fully understand his motivations for war. I don't fully understand ours. Just profit over people and feeding the MIC doesn't seem to cover this willingness to start this big of a war for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyclone24 1,814 Posted January 12 I’m just thankful that Biden is in office to bring the temperature down around the world. That’s what’s really important here. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, cyclone24 said: I’m just thankful that Biden is in office to bring the temperature down around the world. That’s what’s really important here. I detect some sarcasm. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 1,416 Posted January 12 3 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: 100%, and so he has all the reason in the world to keep war going. As soon as it stops he is out and has to answer for some things. I fully understand his motivations for war. I don't fully understand ours. Just profit over people and feeding the MIC doesn't seem to cover this willingness to start this big of a war for me. Ours is supporting Israel. If their guy wants to go HAM after they had a bunch of lunatics come in and murder their citizens in the manner that they were it is going to put us in a bad spot. But yeah, sitting over here, Israel is overstepping at this point. Looking at this from a purely practical stance what they are doing at this point is hurting their long term prospects IMO. I thought I had read the manner in which this war is now being fought isn’t popular with Israelis either. If that’s true this can’t continue much longer. The die is already cast though most likely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,980 Posted January 12 This isn't about Israel. Don't be so naive. Israel was just an excuse. And isn't it funny how none of these conflicts happened when Trump was President. Biden is as bad or worse than Jimmy. And everybody knew how bad he was on foreign policy before he was elected. Dems are dumb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 1,416 Posted January 12 3 minutes ago, Strike said: This isn't about Israel. Don't be so naive. Israel was just an excuse. And isn't it funny how none of these conflicts happened when Trump was President. Biden is as bad or worse than Jimmy. And everybody knew how bad he was on foreign policy before he was elected. Dems are dumb. How would you like to see the US respond here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 1,416 Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, Strike said: This isn't about Israel. Don't be so naive. Israel was just an excuse. And isn't it funny how none of these conflicts happened when Trump was President. Biden is as bad or worse than Jimmy. And everybody knew how bad he was on foreign policy before he was elected. Dems are dumb. What does this mean? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted January 12 5 minutes ago, thegeneral said: Ours is supporting Israel. If their guy wants to go HAM after they had a bunch of lunatics come in and murder their citizens in the manner that they were it is going to put us in a bad spot. But yeah, sitting over here, Israel is overstepping at this point. Looking at this from a purely practical stance what they are doing at this point is hurting their long term prospects IMO. I thought I had read the manner in which this war is now being fought isn’t popular with Israelis either. If that’s true this can’t continue much longer. The die is already cast though most likely. Were you saying our motivation is supporting Israel? Again, I see that to a point, but if we aren't willing to step in and force them to reign it in, what does that say about us? Either we are OK with what is being considered a genocide, or at the very least not OK but still like all the profits it gives us. That's what I am having trouble with - why we give these countries blank checks and unconditional support. I think that and I am sure many Israelis would love to know how Oct 7th happened in the first place. My understanding is they had way too many troops in the West Bank protecting their expansions (which is also an issue) and many people want Netanyahu's head for Oct 7th in the first place. All of this is what HE wants and wanted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,125 Posted January 12 4 hours ago, RLLD said: Yemen’s Houthi rebels vowed fierce retaliation Friday for American and British strikes against them, further raising the prospect of a wider conflict in a region already beset by Israel’s war in Gaza. I have spent time in that area, and around those people. I have some simple thoughts on this. 1) They are fierce fighters, notably in their environment. Trying to fight them on their own terrain would be unwise. 2) They are warm and welcoming if you are their friend. They love to sit and enjoy tea and it is as much about the experience as it is the tea. 3) They LOVE their weapons, and I mean.....they focking love them, as if they are family. They hand these things down, and care for them as if they are children..... 4) Loyal to power, as the power shifts....so too will their loyalty so you simply must be constantly engaged with them; not just to secure loyalty, but to know when it shifts before they decide.....to let you know..... How is their anti missile system? Not so fierce after all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,980 Posted January 12 13 minutes ago, thegeneral said: How would you like to see the US respond here? I'm on phone. Too much to.post to reply to this and your next post. Will try to later if I remember or you can remind me. I will say this though. We should have responded long before this. Why did we wait months? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cdub100 3,384 Posted January 12 What's in it for them? Why are they doing it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted January 12 3 minutes ago, Cdub100 said: What's in it for them? Why are they doing it? Gives a great reason for Iran to attempt to wipe out Israel and at the same time isolate us in the world as we get dragged in with them? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cdub100 3,384 Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, BuckSwope said: Gives a great reason for Iran to attempt to wipe out Israel and at the same time isolate us in the world as we get dragged in with them? You're in the Houthi DOD. Someone says we should provoke Israel and their vassal state USA. Don't worry Iran said they have our back. How does that person not get shot? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 2,954 Posted January 12 This is a tough situation. I support Biden’s decision. I also think that @BuckSwope offered a reasonable criticism. I also think that @Strike’s criticism that Biden should have acted earlier has possible merit as well, but I reject the his other arguments about how none of this would have happened under Trump, Biden is weak, etc. That’s a lot of malarky IMO. Hopefully we can contain this and prevent it getting worse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 1,416 Posted January 12 16 minutes ago, Strike said: I'm on phone. Too much to.post to reply to this and your next post. Will try to later if I remember or you can remind me. I will say this though. We should have responded long before this. Why did we wait months? I think waiting isn’t a bad idea. Takes time to align, allows a potential for things to deescalate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonS 3,067 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, thegeneral said: I think waiting isn’t a bad idea. Takes time to align, allows a potential for things to deescalate. That might work in theory when dealing with foreign countries. Not so much when it comes to terrorist organizations. Terrorists don't have the best track record for being reasonable or diplomatic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Cdub100 said: You're in the Houthi DOD. Someone says we should provoke Israel and their vassal state USA. Don't worry Iran said they have our back. How does that person not get shot? I think you vastly underestimate the hatred between groups over there and the desire for many people to start a war in the ME over religious and other reasons. I think of Houthi and these others as arms of Iran, not a some separate entity that would be offended by that strategy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,455 Posted January 12 21 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said: How is their anti missile system? Not so fierce after all As long as we pass on and boots on the ground we will be just fine.... Notable....Maersk warns of major disruption as it diverts ships away from Red Sea and then...... Oil rises 1% as more tankers avoid Red Sea after strikes But....but wait.....haven't our resident Biden supporters assured us that threats to oil do not manifest in higher prices? We won't see it at the pump right away, but not unlike the way Biden threatened oil and caused it to rise, so too will this......not to the extent of when Biden did it, his threat was actually far worse.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 1,416 Posted January 12 Just now, DonS said: That might work in theory when dealing with foreign countries. Not so much when it comes to terrorist organizations. Terrorists don't have the best track record for being reasonable or diplomatic. I was referring to Israel deescalating their Gaza attacks and some normalizing there. That is the crux of al this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonS 3,067 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, thegeneral said: I was referring to Israel deescalating their Gaza attacks and some normalizing there. That is the crux of al this. Ah. My bad. Thought you were replying on why it took so long to respond to the Houthis attacking ships. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: This is a tough situation. I support Biden’s decision. I also think that @BuckSwope offered a reasonable criticism. I also think that @Strike’s criticism that Biden should have acted earlier has possible merit as well, but I reject the his other arguments about how none of this would have happened under Trump, Biden is weak, etc. That’s a lot of malarky IMO. Hopefully we can contain this and prevent it getting worse. Some of it is. Yes, Biden is weak. As I said, I have 0 clue how this relationship progressed to you can do whatever you want in retaliation and we won't say anything. My understanding is other presidents have been able to tell Netanyahu to pound sand. This is on Biden. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 1,416 Posted January 12 3 minutes ago, DonS said: Ah. My bad. Thought you were replying on why it took so long to respond to the Houthis attacking ships. Well I was but this timeline isn’t too crazy to me. I believe they first started up with this in the Red Sea in late November and then our first ship was targeted mid December. They hit another US ship a couple days ago To me that isn’t an overly long period of time to put together a response, align with allies. In the meantime you can hope things deescalate. When they did it again a couple days ago - light the candle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckSwope 654 Posted January 12 Some of the delay has to be that fact that retaliation from us = war. I'm not sure what level we needed to be at to make sure when that happens Israel doesn't get turned to dust, but my assumption was that the delay was to get to that level or as close to it as we could. And also, yes - to hope Netanyahu eases off the gas a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,317 Posted January 12 This Middle East conflict is expanding. Not good Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,980 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, IGotWorms said: This Middle East conflict is expanding. Not good Could have been nipped in the bud but idiot Biden's inaction allowed it to escalate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,317 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Strike said: Could have been nipped in the bud but idiot Biden's inaction allowed it to escalate. lol, sure that’s it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
