NFL Head Coaching Now Over-Represented by Blacks - UPDATE - the hiring of Radio Raheem brings it up to 22%!!!!

[jerryskids 6,652]

Discussion on how HOF players did as coaches.  Spoiler:  not that well.

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How Hall of Fame Players did as Head Coaches

 

A long time ago (2 years or so), I was reading about Ditka and began to wonder how other HoF players did as head coaches in the NFL. I began researching it back when I was really into NFL history, but never finished the research. Recently, I decided to try again, and this time, I finished.

Not counting the AAFC for coaching, and knowing only one (Sammy Baugh) was a HC in the AFL, I have compiled a list of HoF players (not player-coaches, so no Lambeau or Halas) and how they did. Spoiler alert: not very well. Only 7 of the 24 reached the playoffs in any capacity (one of which, Bart Starr, only did so during the 1982 strike shortened season), and only 2 won a title as a head coach.

Anyway, here's a table

 

 with my findings. Note: Baugh coached the Titans and Oilers separately, accidentally made it look like they were the same team (Titans became the Jets, Oilers became the Titans...poetic). Let me know if I forgot someone (which I probably did), and feel free to discuss.

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Interesting facts:

• The only two players on here to win a championship as a head coach were Joe Stydahar (1951) and Mike Ditka (1985). Both are ex-Chicago Bear players.

• Raymond Berry and Mike Ditka both reached Super Bowl XX, the only time in NFL history where two HoF players turned head coaches faced each other in a title game since it was inaugurated in 1933.

• Joe Schmidt was the head coach of the Lions when Tom Dempsey set an NFL record with his 63 yard field goal (the Lions were 10-4 at the end of the year and lost that game to the eventual 2-11-1 Saints).

• Forrest Gregg succeeded former teammate Bart Starr as head coach of the Packers.

• 6 (typo w/Fears) HoF quarterbacks became head coaches. Starr was the only one to reach the playoffs.

• Walt Kiesling famously cut future Hall-of-Famer and Pittsburgh local Johnny Unitas from the Steelers. He was later picked up by the Colts and well, you know the rest.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/5mg8vg/how_hall_of_fame_players_did_as_head_coaches/

Being great as a player doesn't translate into being great as a coach.  Here is the inverse data:  winningest coaches of all time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_head_coach_wins_leaders

Mike Ditka at #34 is the first HOF player on the list.  Forrest Gregg at #64 is next.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,124]

I think it’s a good thing that much like black quarterbacks, it’s not unusual to see a black HC anymore. I think like with the QB’s, we can stop talking about it. That being said. I don’t think any team wants to be the last one to hire a black HC. The Giants and the Cowboys come to mind. 

[thegeneral 3,065]

58 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

6 percent of the US are black males.  6 percent of 32 is rounded up to 2. There has not been a lack of black head coaches for a long time. It is like the female wage gap. Something fun to talk about but not real. 

The overall population numbers I don’t think are so relevant when you take into account this work force is dominated by black players.

The coaching numbers are now closer to what seems more normal for this situation. I’d expect the numbers to grow by quite a bit.

[seafoam1 2,859]

14 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

The overall population numbers I don’t think are so relevant when you take into account this work force is dominated by black players.

The coaching numbers are now closer to what seems more normal for this situation. I’d expect the numbers to grow by quite a bit.

So blacks are better at football and should be elevated as the only candidates. 

And that means high school students who test the best should be first in line for getting into colleges.

 

Go ahead and make it a black only sport. 

You can draft Miles Sanders. I'll take McCaffrey.

[thegeneral 3,065]

2 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

So blacks are better at football and should be elevated as the only candidates. 

And that means high school students who test the best should be first in line for getting into colleges.

 

Go ahead and make it a black only sport. 

You can draft Miles Sanders. I'll take McCaffrey.

In a situation where something like 60% of the players are black I’d expect the coaches to be more inline with that number rather than this overall population stats people keep tossing out.

[squistion 2,040]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Your post has proven that you don't.

He mischaracterized what I said, stating that was my opinion and then argued against that (or rather that I agreed with him). By definition a Straw Man argument. 

[seafoam1 2,859]

2 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

In a situation where something like 60% of the players are black I’d expect the coaches to be more inline with that number rather than this overall population stats people keep tossing out.

So a company that is 90% white should focus on hiring whites? I'm fine with that. 

[thegeneral 3,065]

5 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

So a company that is 90% white should focus on hiring whites?

Of course not. The NFL doesn’t focus on hiring any type of race in their players it just happens to be that the league is close to 60% black. 

As I already said it seems unusual to me that there wouldn’t be more black coaches when you have those types of numbers. I’d expect the current numbers of black coaches to continue to expand.

 

[seafoam1 2,859]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

Of course not.

 

Because justice to you is your choice of race comes first?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,286]

21 hours ago, Raven Fan said:

Imagine going through life hating others because of the color of their skin.

Nothing but low education, hateful cultist.

SAD

imagine going thru life thinking skin color actually matters, that in itself is racist

imagine hiring someone ONLY cause of their skin color?

Imagine being a black dude and its like you don't actually deserve this job, but you got it just cause you checked a box

also those who can play, those who can't coach

which is why there are so many white coaches, they usually played but got weeded out by lesser talent, and in order to stay in the game they needed to perfect the nuances or get into coaching.  How many black college athletes get into coaching at an early age?

 

[thegeneral 3,065]

4 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Because justice to you is your choice of race comes first. 

I rarely comment in these weirdo  “race threads” which seem more like rant fests often to me 

Race was undoubtably a factor in fairly recent history in hiring in the NFL. I don’t really think so today which is a great thing.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,124]

I WGAF if the NYG hired puff diddy as their HC if they won. And the way things are going, they may as well.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,500]

30 minutes ago, squistion said:

He mischaracterized what I said, stating that was my opinion and then argued against that (or rather that I agreed with him). By definition a Straw Man argument. 

No, what he did was point out a stance that you have in another topic that isn't consistent with your stance on this one.

That's not a straw man because it IS an opinion that you have.  You do believe that people should be allowed into to college based on race, even if there is no merit, or shall I say, someone else is more worthy.  You do agree with Affirmative Action.

Had he said something like "So, you don't think white people are talented enough to play football?", THAT would be a straw man argument.

[TimHauck 2,663]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

I missed that you selectively quoted part of my post.

To these points, yes, to some extent, although it doesn't make you good at it.  Certainly not one of the 32 best at it.

In hindsight, I should have stuck with the management side of the argument.   

Yeah, honestly I was surprised you brought up those skills as among the first things about coaching.

I actually agree with you for the most part…playing in the NFL does not make you a good coach.  But knowing what it takes to make it in the NFL can certainly help.  That’s why I think a realistic target should be more like somewhere in between the % of players and the % of total population.

I’m an NCAA wrestling fan and this discussion comes up a lot.  An overwhelming majority of D1 coaches were D1 All Americans as athletes, with many of the coaches of the top schools being national champions.  Many (including myself) question whether success as an athlete should be a prerequisite for becoming a D1 head coach.  It’s a little different because many of them will actually wrestle with the team members, so it would help in that scenario, but still an interesting discussion IMO.

[jerryskids 6,652]

14 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Yeah, honestly I was surprised you brought up those skills as among the first things about coaching.

I actually agree with you for the most part…playing in the NFL does not make you a good coach.  But knowing what it takes to make it in the NFL can certainly help.  That’s why I think a realistic target should be more like somewhere in between the % of players and the % of total population.

I’m an NCAA wrestling fan and this discussion comes up a lot.  An overwhelming majority of D1 coaches were D1 All Americans as athletes, with many of the coaches of the top schools being national champions.  Many (including myself) question whether success as an athlete should be a prerequisite for becoming a D1 head coach.  It’s a little different because many of them will actually wrestle with the team members, so it would help in that scenario, but still an interesting discussion IMO.

Certainly if you look at the top coaches all time in any pro sport, or D1 football and basketball, the ranks are not filled with former all stars and HOFers.  I probably personally experienced it the most in the martial arts, where the first thing students brag about is "my sensei is a world champ!"  OK... how is he at teaching?  Does he understand the work involved to succeed, or does he just say "break board." When I did TKD, our chief master was, quite honestly, not the toughest of guys.  But he was really smart, an engineer by training who decided to pursue a life passion.  He went on to get a PhD in education.  He wasn't the greatest martial artist, but he was very analytical, and very good at breaking down movements and finding areas to improve.  He actually makes most of his money these days contracting with other studios to teach them how to teach.  And teaching them how to run a business, which most of them suck at, but that's a different topic.   

[seafoam1 2,859]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

I rarely comment in these weirdo  “race threads” which seem more like rant fests often to me 

Race was undoubtably a factor in fairly recent history in hiring in the NFL. I don’t really think so today which is a great thing.

 

You should stay away. You are racist as can be. 

[thegeneral 3,065]

33 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

You should stay away. You are racist as can be. 

I definitely wouldn’t discuss this stuff with the likes of you

[seafoam1 2,859]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

I definitely wouldn’t discuss this stuff with the likes of you

OMG!!! Awww....

[Bert 1,128]

On 1/25/2024 at 2:50 PM, squistion said:

And what is the percentage of black players in the NFL? It should come closer to representing that than of the population.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1167935/racial-diversity-nfl-players/#:~:text=Players in the NFL in 2022%2C by ethnicity&text=In 2022%2C the greatest share,of players within the NFL.

56 percent

 

Players in the NFL in 2022, by ethnicity In 2022, the greatest share of players by ethnic group in the National Football League (NFL) were black or African American athletes, constituting just over 56 percent of players within the NFL.

 

Players?  What is the % of owners and the fan base?  The 2 most important groups in an income producing entity. 

[Gepetto 1,328]

Not sure why former players should become coaches at a high percentage compared to non-former players. How many Detroit Automobile Assembly line workers become Executive level management? How many assembly line workers at Kellogg's become President of Kellogg's plants?

[Frozenbeernuts 2,197]

I stopped watching football. They care too much about things not related to what happens on the field. My life has been much better since

[TimHauck 2,663]

7 hours ago, Gepetto said:

Not sure why former players should become coaches at a high percentage compared to non-former players. How many Detroit Automobile Assembly line workers become Executive level management? How many assembly line workers at Kellogg's become President of Kellogg's plants?

Publix comes to mind off the top of my head.  The previous CEO, current CEO and current President all started as store clerks

[seafoam1 2,859]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

Publix comes to mind off the top of my head.  The previous CEO, current CEO and current President all started as store clerks

So they were assembly line workers? 

Listen dude, different roles in football and in grocery stores and in all businesses across America have different skill sets. Not every construction worker is cut out to run a construction company.  Quite the contrary actually. Some people who play football at a successful level suck ass at coaching. Some, many or most construction workers don't know finances. If an all white company is successful, does that mean they should invest solely in white workers?

[Raven Fan 362]

This thread is a great example of just how racist most cultist are.  They are legit trying to compare the % of blacks in the general population to the % of blacks involved in this small subset of people who play and coach football.

And note, when there was 1 black coach the cultist never cried that blacks were underrepresented.

Because cultist are racist.  "mexicans are rapist, murderers, and criminals, and some I assume are good people"  Just racist through and through. 

[TimHauck 2,663]

1 minute ago, seafoam1 said:

So they were assembly line workers? 

Listen dude, different roles in football and in grocery stores and in all businesses across America have different skill sets. Not every construction worker is cut out to run a construction company.  Quite the contrary actually. Some people who play football at a successful level suck ass at coaching. Some, many or most construction workers don't know finances.

Supermarkets don’t have assembly lines. None of this (and I’ve cut out your obvious racism) disagrees with what I have stated in this thread

[seafoam1 2,859]

Just now, Raven Fan said:

This thread is a great example of just how racist most cultist are.  They are legit trying to compare the % of blacks in the general population to the % of blacks involved in this small subset of people who play and coach football.

And note, when there was 1 black coach the cultist never cried that blacks were underrepresented.

Because cultist are racist.  "mexicans are rapist, murderers, and criminals, and some I assume are good people"  Just racist through and through. 

Yeah. You are racist. Always thinking black people need you to hold their hand to get along in life. 

[Raven Fan 362]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

Yeah. You are racist. Always thinking black people need you to hold their hand to get along in life. 

Noting that there have barely any black coaches or GMs is holding their hands?  Interesting way of looking at life boyo.

if I note that you rent a chitty apartment like i did when I was 21 am I holding your hand?

Apparently you don't understand what a statement of fact is.

Rent's almost due boyo...

[seafoam1 2,859]

Just now, TimHauck said:

Supermarkets don’t have assembly lines. None of this (and I’ve cut out your obvious racism) disagrees with what I have stated in this thread

Well, he brought up assembly lines and you responded with a grocery store. 

The fact that you didn't see that is telling in itself. 

Now, do you really think that all of the best investors and business folks are 100% skilled in the technical details of the businesses they run? Or even 20%?

I can, and did, everything from requirements gathering, functional and technical design, development and configuration, unit testing, assembly testing, system testing, performance testing, UAT, and deployment in my work. Full development life cycle work from start to finish on large software implementations across the country. And I know that the very successful leaders and sellers of those projects don't know shlt about what skills I possessed on those projects. And that was fine with me. Because when it all came down to it, if they needed my input to put out a fire, they came to me, and then they got paid for what they do best. Handle it. I never wanted that as I was paid well enough and didn't want that level of headache. 

So I'm living example of what you deny. 

[seafoam1 2,859]

8 minutes ago, Raven Fan said:

Noting that there have barely any black coaches or GMs is holding their hands?  Interesting way of looking at life boyo.

if I note that you rent a chitty apartment like i did when I was 21 am I holding your hand?

Apparently you don't understand what a statement of fact is.

Rent's almost due boyo...

6% of the population bltch. 

And please, keep showing your level of being desperate about trying to show you have more money than I do. It's glorious how you suffer. 

[Raven Fan 362]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

6% of the population bltch. 

And please, keep showing your level of being desperate about trying to show you have more money than I do. It's glorious how you suffer. 

Do you think the entire population plays NFL football boyo?  If not, why do you quote the 6% stat?

Oh wait, you think that men should be 50% of the Miss America pageant?  Should women be 50% of the NHL?

That's what your "logic" leads to moron.

Rent's due boyo.  And remember when you stop working you still need to pay rent the rest of your stupid life.  I will have a place to live free and clear boyo, allowing me to use that money to travel and enjoy life.

You'll be eating cat food to make sure you can afford your rent.

Love this for you boyo. 

[TimHauck 2,663]

15 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Well, he brought up assembly lines and you responded with a grocery store. 

 

He was talking about frontline workers becoming CEO’s.  I provided an example

[seafoam1 2,859]

3 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

He was talking about frontline workers becoming CEO’s.  I provided an example

And so did I. Do you seriously think CEOs are the same skill set of grocery baggers? 

 

[TimHauck 2,663]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

And so did I. Do you seriously think CEOs are the same skill set of grocery baggers? 

 

It helps them learn the industry.  Publix is arguably the best run supermarket (especially among those with more than just a couple hundred or less stores) in the country, and both its current and former CEO’s started their careers as store clerks.

[Raven Fan 362]

Just now, TimHauck said:

It helps them learn the industry.  Publix is arguably the best run supermarket (especially among those with more than just a couple hundred or less stores) in the country, and both its current and former CEO’s started their careers as store clerks.

Wait, is peafoam arguing that a person who works their way up is worse for the job than some hired gun?

LOL what's wrong with that dude?

[seafoam1 2,859]

5 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

It helps them learn the industry.  Publix is arguably the best run supermarket (especially among those with more than just a couple hundred or less stores) in the country, and both its current and former CEO’s started their careers as store clerks.

Seriously? Come on. You are mentioning a simple grocery store in the south. I've lived in like 10 states and have only encountered them in Florida. 

What is your point here? Yeah, some people grow through business, but seriously, you think a salesman is the same as a developer in their mindset and mission in their work lives? It is not the same.

[seafoam1 2,859]

7 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

It helps them learn the industry.  Publix is arguably the best run supermarket (especially among those with more than just a couple hundred or less stores) in the country, and both its current and former CEO’s started their careers as store clerks.

I personally refused advancements because I am not a salesman and never wanted to be in my career. I liked what I did on the less high profile work. They are different worlds.

[TimHauck 2,663]

1 hour ago, seafoam1 said:

Seriously? Come on. You are mentioning a simple grocery store in the south. I've lived in like 10 states and have only encountered them in Florida. 

What is your point here? Yeah, some people grow through business, but seriously, you think a salesman is the same as a developer in their mindset and mission in their work lives? It is not the same.

Publix has over 1,300 stores in Florida, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia.

Like I said, I’m not saying all NFL players can be head coaches.  After all, there are nearly 1,700 players on active rosters at any given time with of course much higher turnover than coaches. But playing in the NFL can certainly help.

[TimHauck 2,663]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:37 PM, Patented Phil said:

13% of the population, 19% of NFL Head Coaches.  Do you think Jerod Mayo and the other racists are going to stop biching and moaning about it now?

How bout we start talking about whites being under-represented in the NBA and NFL?  Too soon?

The Plight of Black NFL Coaches — Moment or Movement?

***UPDATE - Falcons hire Radio Raheem Morris.  Blacks now control 22% of the NFL Head Coaching jobs. But Jerod Mayo still thinks the NFL is racist.  Hey - I'd be salty too if I were a black guy named Mayo.

Hey, @Patented Phil, can you kindly point me to the quote where Mayo said the NFL is racist?  Here is the majority of his comment about race during his press conference, and he did not say that at all.

 

[TimHauck 2,663]

Also worth noting that Mayo’s comment was essentially in response to Kraft saying  he was “colorblind.”

Being the first black (edit: NFL) coach in the whitey Boston area is certainly a big deal.

I do get a kick out of the GC posters that will claim they “don’t see color.”  They’re usually the same people that will say “I wonder why the media didn’t show the name or picture of the person charged with this crime?”

[Hardcore troubadour 15,124]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

Also worth noting that Mayo’s comment was essentially in response to Kraft saying  he was “colorblind.”

Being the first black coach in the whitey Boston area is certainly a big deal.

I do get a kick out of the GC posters that will claim they “don’t see color.”  They’re usually the same people that will say “I wonder why the media didn’t show the name or picture of the person charged with this crime?”

He’s not the first black HC in the “whitey” Boston area. And also, it’s not a big deal. He’s a football coach.  BFD. Another soft white liberal that feels the need to speak up for people that are perfectly capable of doing it themselves. You’re down.