Trump's NY Election Interference Trial - Trump is found guilty on all 34 counts

[jonmx 1,762]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

And here you go again. He doesn’t know it. I don’t know it either. We disagree with you. We think you’re wrong. 

Of course he knows it.  He has quoted the law several times and has acknowledged that to be a felony there has to be another crime involved.  This is not something you can 'disagree' with.  It is the simple language in the NY law that this preposterous legal theory is based on.  The fraudulent business record elevates to a felony only if some other crime was committed.  What is the other crime.  

[BeachGuy23 589]

5 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Does it matter?  Biden's DOJ has all the facts.  What statue does this violate?  

 

You quote the Feds not taking it up as some kind of "proof."  You know very well that Trump's DOJ would never investigate it.  And the state picked it up since Trumps' DOJ swept it under the rug.

 

[BeachGuy23 589]

5 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Of course he knows it.  He has quoted the law several times and has acknowledged that to be a felony there has to be another crime involved.  This is not something you can 'disagree' with.  It is the simple language in the NY law that this preposterous legal theory is based on.  The fraudulent business record elevates to a felony only if some other crime was committed.  What is the other crime.  

May I ask what your credentials are to be interpreting laws and their application?

The reason we have lawyers is that laws and their interpretation are complex.  Are you a lawyer boyo?  Because you're making very definitive statements as if you are an expert.

[jonmx 1,762]

1 minute ago, BeachGuy23 said:

You quote the Feds not taking it up as some kind of "proof."  You know very well that Trump's DOJ would never investigate it.  And the state picked it up since Trumps' DOJ swept it under the rug.

 

What law does it violate?   The question has not changed for the last 30 pages, just the method of avoiding it.  

WHAT  LAW  DOES   HUSH   MONEY  VIOLATE?

[BeachGuy23 589]

 

8 minutes ago, jonmx said:

What law does it violate?   The question has not changed for the last 30 pages, just the method of avoiding it.  

WHAT  LAW  DOES   HUSH   MONEY  VIOLATE?

 

TRUMP is charged in a New York State Supreme Court indictment with 34 counts of Falsifying Business Records in the First Degree.^[]   

 

At Donald Trump's hush money trial on Tuesday, a Manhattan prosecutor surprised law nerds in the audience by revealing that "the entire case" rests on a single section of New York's election law.

The statute is simple. It outlaws conspiring to promote or prevent someone's election through "unlawful means."

Manhattan prosecutors say violating this state election law makes Donald Trump a felon. NY State Election Law

Trump is on trial for falsifying business records throughout his first year in office to hide an election-influencing hush-money payment to porn star Stormy Daniels.

Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor, but the charge becomes a felony — punishable by up to four years in prison — if the records were falsified with the intent to commit or hide some other underlying crime.

Now, Manhattan prosecutors now say an old, rarely used section of the state election law is their favorite on the menu of potential underlying crimes.

"As the court is aware, falsifying business records in the first degree requires an intent to commit or conceal another crime," prosecutor Joshua Steinglass told New York State Supreme Court Justice Juan Merchan on Tuesday.

"The primary crime that we have alleged is New York state election law section 17-152," Steinglass told the judge, lifting into prominence an arcane measure that had previously played only a supporting role in the case.

"There is conspiracy language in the statute," the prosecutor said, "The entire case is predicated on the idea that there was a conspiracy to influence the election in 2016."

[jonmx 1,762]

5 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

May I ask what your credentials are to be interpreting laws and their application?

The reason we have lawyers is that laws and their interpretation are complex.  Are you a lawyer boyo?  Because you're making very definitive statements as if you are an expert.

My credentials is the ability to read and understand English.  As citizens, we are required to know and follow the law.  The New York law os written in English and is as follows:

 
§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree
when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second
degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.

My ability to read and comprehend the phrase "and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime" in the context, allows me to properly interpret a very straight forward requirement.  

 

[BeachGuy23 589]

3 minutes ago, jonmx said:

My credentials is the ability to read and understand English.  As citizens, we are required to know and follow the law.  The New York law os written in English and is as follows:

 
§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree
when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second
degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.

My ability to read and comprehend the phrase "and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime" in the context, allows me to properly interpret a very straight forward requirement.  

 

Why do we have lawyers then boyo?  And forgive me for saying this but you've shown zero ability to understand complex topics and comprehend the full extent of the words.  You think the FBI made the deplorable animals attack our capital for goodness sakes.  You're easily fooled and fall for most CTs.  You're clearly not bright.   And note, I don't hold myself up as an expert either.

And falsifying business records to influence the outcome of an election makes it a felony according to how NY is interpreting the statute I posted.

 

[Engorgeous George 1,292]

A conspiracy refers to an agreement between two or more people to commit an unlawful act, or to deprive another person of his legal rights. The agreement to act must be moved toward a conclusion, whether or not it is actually accomplished. A conspiracy may exist when the parties use legal means to accomplish an illegal result, or to use illegal means to accomplish a legal act.

[BeachGuy23 589]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

A conspiracy refers to an agreement between two or more people to commit an unlawful act, or to deprive another person of his legal rights. The agreement to act must be moved toward a conclusion, whether or not it is actually accomplished. A conspiracy may exist when the parties use legal means to accomplish an illegal result, or to use illegal means to accomplish a legal act.

Doesn't Trump's collaborating with Pecker and his hush money to Stormy constitute a conspiracy?

[jonmx 1,762]

24 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

 

 

TRUMP is charged in a New York State Supreme Court indictment with 34 counts of Falsifying Business Records in the First Degree.^[]   

 

At Donald Trump's hush money trial on Tuesday, a Manhattan prosecutor surprised law nerds in the audience by revealing that "the entire case" rests on a single section of New York's election law.

The statute is simple. It outlaws conspiring to promote or prevent someone's election through "unlawful means."

Manhattan prosecutors say violating this state election law makes Donald Trump a felon. NY State Election Law

Trump is on trial for falsifying business records throughout his first year in office to hide an election-influencing hush-money payment to porn star Stormy Daniels.

Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor, but the charge becomes a felony — punishable by up to four years in prison — if the records were falsified with the intent to commit or hide some other underlying crime.

Now, Manhattan prosecutors now say an old, rarely used section of the state election law is their favorite on the menu of potential underlying crimes.

"As the court is aware, falsifying business records in the first degree requires an intent to commit or conceal another crime," prosecutor Joshua Steinglass told New York State Supreme Court Justice Juan Merchan on Tuesday.

"The primary crime that we have alleged is New York state election law section 17-152," Steinglass told the judge, lifting into prominence an arcane measure that had previously played only a supporting role in the case.

"There is conspiracy language in the statute," the prosecutor said, "The entire case is predicated on the idea that there was a conspiracy to influence the election in 2016."

LOL...that is the most circular convoluted bullshit ever. To buy into that ridiculous theory, you would have to believe that:

1.  The business record was fraudulent.   It is not, but let's say it is.  No one was actually defrauded.

2.  That somehow that note on a check in January 2017 somehow prevented Hillary from being elected in November 2016.  

Without any time travel magic, the assertion is impossible.  So what would have to be proven is somehow the money Cohen paid to Stormy was illegal, but that is not what is being alledged.  There was nothing about a bookkeeping note in 2017 which in anyway was done to prevent Hillary's election in 2016, which BTW is a federal election and not a state election. 

[BeachGuy23 589]

3 minutes ago, jonmx said:

LOL...that is the most circular convoluted bullshit ever. To buy into that ridiculous theory, you would have to believe that:

1.  The business record was fraudulent.   It is not, but let's say it is.  No one was actually defrauded.

2.  That somehow that note on a check in January 2017 somehow prevented Hillary from being elected in November 2016.  

Without any time travel magic, the assertion is impossible.  So what would have to be proven is somehow the money Cohen paid to Stormy was illegal, but that is not what is being alledged.  There was nothing about a bookkeeping note in 2017 which in anyway was done to prevent Hillary's election in 2016, which BTW is a federal election and not a state election. 

Again boyo you're not equipped to understand all the nuances and implications of the laws.  You draw conclusions all the time based on your limited understanding.

Trump's lawyers should destroy the case if it's as open and shut as you claim.  It's not because you're not super bright and you don't have any legal experience or knowledge.  But you can now stop asking what laws he's alleged to have broken. 

[jonmx 1,762]

15 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said:

Why do we have lawyers then boyo?  And forgive me for saying this but you've shown zero ability to understand complex topics and comprehend the full extent of the words.  You think the FBI made the deplorable animals attack our capital for goodness sakes.  You're easily fooled and fall for most CTs.  You're clearly not bright.   And note, I don't hold myself up as an expert either.

And falsifying business records to influence the outcome of an election makes it a felony according to how NY is interpreting the statute I posted.

 

You are a fuking idiot.  I written and legally binding contacts and requirements for decades.  My analysis is spot on, and I do not cut and paste nonsense like you do.  You have no clue what you post.  Just some braindead idoot who believes whatever your authoritarian masters say. 

[BeachGuy23 589]

1 minute ago, jonmx said:

You are a fuking idiot.  I written and legally binding contacts and requirements for decades.  My analysis is spot on, and I do not cut and paste nonsense like you do.  You have no clue what you post.  Just some braindead idoot who believes whatever your authoritarian masters say. 

You think adhering to contract law give you some kind of understanding of criminal statues?

Again boyo, you've shown over and over again that you don't have the mental horsepower to even come close to interpreting complex matters.

And no, copying and pasting real estate contracts or whatever the phuk you do doesn't make you any more knowledgably about state criminal laws. 

 

[jonmx 1,762]

1 minute ago, BeachGuy23 said:

Again boyo you're not equipped to understand all the nuances and implications of the laws. 

And yet I just explained to you the flaws in the case perfectly.  A judge has enough discretion to ignore the law and give terrible instructions to the jury to secure a conviction.  It will get overturned on appeal. 

But the goal is to take Trump down before the election, they do not care of it is under a fraudulent twisting of the law.  

[Hawkeye21 1,904]

Continuously defending Trump must be a labor of love.  It's certainly a thankless job because that man doesn't give a fock about you.

[jonmx 1,762]

1 minute ago, BeachGuy23 said:

You think adhering to contract law give you some kind of understanding of criminal statues?

Again boyo, you've shown over and over again that you don't have the mental horsepower to even come close to interpreting complex matters.

And no, copying and pasting real estate contracts or whatever the phuk you do doesn't make you any more knowledgably about state criminal laws. 

 

Yes.  My comprehension of the law is quite good.  I ran rings around numerous lawyers at FBG on numerous cases including Trayvon Martin and Kyle Rittenhouse.

[BeachGuy23 589]

1 minute ago, jonmx said:

And yet I just explained to you the flaws in the case perfectly.  A judge has enough discretion to ignore the law and give terrible instructions to the jury to secure a conviction.  It will get overturned on appeal. 

But the goal is to take Trump down before the election, they do not care of it is under a fraudulent twisting of the law.  

You explained based on your incomplete, shallow interpretation.  You don't have the mental horsepower to interpret complex laws and their implications.

And no judges aren't gods and can just bring cases and change laws around willy nilly.  You're a CT nutjob who thinks everyone who tries to hold Trump accountable is doing it for political reasons.

And Trump's lawyers could correct said terrible instructions via their defense.

[jonmx 1,762]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Continuously defending Trump must be a labor of love.  It's certainly a thankless job because that man doesn't give a fock about you.

It is a labor because your authoritarian masters you endlessly have your tongue deep inside their arse have unlimited resources to attack Trump with.  

[BeachGuy23 589]

1 minute ago, jonmx said:

Yes.  My comprehension of the law is quite good.  I ran rings around numerous lawyers at FBG on numerous cases including Trayvon Martin and Kyle Rittenhouse.

How was your interpretation of the law that Fannie would be removed?

Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself more than you usually do. 

 

[Hawkeye21 1,904]

1 minute ago, jonmx said:

It is a labor because your authoritarian masters you endlessly have your tongue deep inside their arse have unlimited resources to attack Trump with.  

I don't have any authoritarian masters.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,945]

A one man conspiracy.  Cy Vance and the Biden DOJ didn’t take this horse shitt case. Bragg didn’t even want to.  It’s a farce and a low point in our history. 

[squistion 982]

46 minutes ago, jonmx said:

What law does it violate?   The question has not changed for the last 30 pages, just the method of avoiding it.  

WHAT  LAW  DOES   HUSH   MONEY  VIOLATE?

Once again...

PAYING HUSH MONEY IS NOT ILLEGAL as it is a considered a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

Falsifying business records to disguise that payment as being something else is.

[jonmx 1,762]

42 minutes ago, squistion said:

Once again...

PAYING HUSH MONEY IS NOT ILLEGAL as it is a considered a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

Falsifying business records to disguise that payment as being something else is.

NDA are done every day and are 100 percent legal.  You are so stupid.  

[jonmx 1,762]

55 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I don't have any authoritarian masters.

You actually do. 

[Hawkeye21 1,904]

8 minutes ago, jonmx said:

You actually do. 

Who are my authoritarian masters?

[squistion 982]

8 minutes ago, jonmx said:

NDA are done every day and are 100 percent legal.  You are so stupid.  

I didn't say NDA's are illegal. Can't you read?

[jonmx 1,762]

19 minutes ago, squistion said:

I didn't say NDA's are illegal. Can't you read?

Then what exactly is the 'something else is' that is illegal?  That is the part you miss everytime. 

[Mike Honcho 4,143]

22 minutes ago, squistion said:

I didn't say NDA's are illegal. Can't you read?

 

 

[squistion 982]

17 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Then what exactly is the 'something else is' that is illegal?  That is the part you miss everytime. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/04/12/trumps-hush-money-payment-isnt-illegal-in-itself-heres-why-hes-actually-on-trial/?sh=20c1c01c37f3

The alleged crime that Trump’s been charged with, falsification of business records, is typically classified as a misdemeanor under New York law, but is elevated to a felony when it’s done to facilitate another crime. That’s what prosecutors are alleging here—all 34 counts against Trump are classified as felonies—with Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg arguing that the allegedly falsely labeled payments were done to cover up other crimes, including Cohen’s campaign finance crimes and alleged tax issues, as the payments to Cohen were falsely characterized as income rather than repayments.

[jonmx 1,762]

11 minutes ago, squistion said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/04/12/trumps-hush-money-payment-isnt-illegal-in-itself-heres-why-hes-actually-on-trial/?sh=20c1c01c37f3

The alleged crime that Trump’s been charged with, falsification of business records, is typically classified as a misdemeanor under New York law, but is elevated to a felony when it’s done to facilitate another crime. That’s what prosecutors are alleging here—all 34 counts against Trump are classified as felonies—with Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg arguing that the allegedly falsely labeled payments were done to cover up other crimes, including Cohen’s campaign finance crimes and alleged tax issues, as the payments to Cohen were falsely characterized as income rather than repayments.

Ok...so at least you tried here.   But what exactly was Cohen's crime?   Your statements make no sense.  When you make a payment, it is never income.  A bookkeepers note on a check makes no difference to how Cohen classifies his income.  If Cohen receives payments of $420k from Trump and pays Stormy $120k, the he must show $300k of income.  That is on him to do.  The idea that some note on a check must include all of Cohen's expenses is preposterous.  There is no fraud.  All parties involved recieved exactly what they agreed to.

[squistion 982]

11 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Ok...so at least you tried here.   But what exactly was Cohen's crime?   Your statements make no sense.  When you make a payment, it is never income.  A bookkeepers note on a check makes no difference to how Cohen classifies his income.  If Cohen receives payments of $420k from Trump and pays Stormy $120k, the he must show $300k of income.  That is on him to do.  The idea that some note on a check must include all of Cohen's expenses is preposterous.  There is no fraud.  All parties involved recieved exactly what they agreed to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cohen_(lawyer)#:~:text=In August 2018%2C Cohen pleaded,influencing" the 2016 presidential election.

In August 2018, Cohen pleaded guilty to eight counts including campaign-finance violations, tax fraud, and bank fraud. Cohen said he violated campaign-finance laws at Trump's direction "for the principal purpose of influencing" the 2016 presidential election.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,945]

1 minute ago, squistion said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cohen_(lawyer)#:~:text=In August 2018%2C Cohen pleaded,influencing" the 2016 presidential election.

In August 2018, Cohen pleaded guilty to eight counts including campaign-finance violations, tax fraud, and bank fraud. Cohen said he violated campaign-finance laws at Trump's direction "for the principal purpose of influencing" the 2016 presidential election.

Sounds like a conspiracy.  

[thegeneral 1,547]

People pleading guilty after dealing with Trump’s bullshet is pretty normal it seems.

[edjr 5,718]

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,945]

This thing is still going on? 

[The Real timschochet 3,198]

56 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

This thing is still going on? 

Good point. Given the evidence Trump ought to change his plea to guilty. What defense can he possibly offer? 

[Fnord 1,178]

LOL at Terroristmx thinking HE'S got it figured out. THERE'S NO CRIME HERE!!!

Excellent example of the deranged MAGA mindset in which dipshits think they know more about the law than the defense team for the former POTUS. I'd say you can't make this shlt up, but that's all the Terrorist does. Then has the lack of wherewithal to accuse everyone else of being stupid. That people like him exist and vote saddens and disturbs me.

[Tree of Knowledge 912]

On 4/27/2024 at 1:36 PM, thegeneral said:

People pleading guilty after dealing with Trump’s bullshet is pretty normal it seems.

He needs to learn from the pros and have these type of people commit suicide.  

[thegeneral 1,547]

2 minutes ago, Tree of Knowledge said:

He needs to learn from the pros and have these type of people commit suicide.  

Many people are saying that he did that to Epstein. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,722]

27 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Many people are saying that he did that to Epstein. 

But it appears the Clintons got to him first.