Virginia school board votes to restore names of Confederate leaders to schools...

[posty 2,809]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/virginia-school-board-vote-restoring-names-confederate-leaders-schools-rcna151458

The school board in Shenandoah County, Virginia, early Friday approved a proposal that will restore the names of Confederate military leaders to two public schools.

The measure, which passed 5-1, reverses a previous board’s decision in 2020 to change the names of schools that had been linked to Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee and Turner Ashby, three men who led the pro-slavery Southern states during the Civil War. 

Mountain View High School will go back to the name Stonewall Jackson High School. Honey Run Elementary School will go back to the name Ashby-Lee Elementary School.

The board stripped their names after a Minneapolis police officer murdered George Floyd, fueling a national racial reckoning. The calls for racial justice and equity inspired some communities to remove Confederate symbolism and statues of Confederate generals.

But in Shenandoah County, the conservative group Coalition for Better Schools petitioned school officials to reinstate the names of Jackson, Lee and Ashby. “We believe that revisiting this decision is essential to honor our community’s heritage and respect the wishes of the majority,” the coalition wrote in an April 3 letter to the board, according to a copy posted online.

The board considered a similar motion in 2022, but it failed because of a tie vote.

Four years ago, a previous incarnation of the board moved to change the names in a 5-1 vote, according to minutes from a meeting held July 9, 2020. The minutes say that the goal of the resolution was "condemning racism and affirming the division’s commitment to an inclusive school environment for all."

The current members said the 2020 board's decision was made hastily and without appropriate community input. About 80 people spoke Thursday before the board's vote — more than 50 of them against restoring the old names.

"I am a Black student, and if the names are restored, I would have to represent a man that fought for my ancestors to be slaves," one student said in a direct appeal to the board members, later adding: "I think it is unfair to me that restoring the names is up for discussion."

In the last decade, Confederate iconography has provoked intense sociopolitical divides across the nation.

The statue of Confederate Gen. Stonewall Jackson is removed from a park in Charlottesville in 2021.Ryan M. Kelly / AFP via Getty Images file

The anti-Black mass shooting at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, in June 2015 set off fierce debates about public displays of the Confederate flag and commemorations of the Confederacy. South Carolina officials voted to remove the Confederate flag from state Capitol grounds that year.

Two years later, hundreds of neo-Nazis and white nationalists descended on Charlottesville, Virginia, for the deadly “Unite the Right” rally. They stormed the college town in part to protest the planned removal of a statue of Lee from the city’s Market Street Park, formerly known as Lee Park.

In the wake of Floyd’s murder and massive protests against racism, the legacy of the Confederacy once again became a focal point in the national conversation. At least 160 public Confederate symbols were taken down or moved from public places in 2020, according to a tally from the Southern Poverty Law Center.

“These racist symbols only serve to uphold revisionist history and the belief that white supremacy remains morally acceptable,” SPLC chief of staff Lecia Brooks said in a statement at the time. “This is why we believe that all symbols of white supremacy should be removed from public spaces.”

The vote in Shenandoah County comes as conservative groups across the U.S. increasingly push back against efforts to reckon with race in America in educational settings, including efforts to limit classroom discussion of racial identity, ban library books dealing with racial themes, and derail diversity plans.

[RLLD 4,275]

Not sure how this ongoing game around names and statues helps a mother focking thing......   change the names......tear down the statues, or put them back up..... 

Its all bullsh!t distraction, and pointless adding no value what so ever

[posty 2,809]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

Not sure how this ongoing game around names and statues helps a mother focking thing......   change the names......tear down the statues, or put them back up..... 

Its all bullsh!t distraction, and pointless adding no value what so ever

Agreed...  It shouldn't have all been done in the first place, just knee-jerk reactions...

[Herbivore 1,193]

Sounds like some racists found their way back to the board. 

1 hour ago, posty said:

The current members said the 2020 board's decision was made hastily and without appropriate community input. About 80 people spoke Thursday before the board's vote — more than 50 of them against restoring the old names.

"I am a Black student, and if the names are restored, I would have to represent a man that fought for my ancestors to be slaves," one student said in a direct appeal to the board members, later adding: "I think it is unfair to me that restoring the names is up for discussion."

 

[RLLD 4,275]

5 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

Sounds like some racists found their way back to the board. 

 

Or...the racists were removed.  Time will tell.

[Herbivore 1,193]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Or...the racists were removed.  Time will tell.

It is a shame that those high schools are named after those traitors. This kid has a really good point..what do you think of it?  

1 hour ago, posty said:

"I am a Black student, and if the names are restored, I would have to represent a man that fought for my ancestors to be slaves," one student said in a direct appeal to the board members, later adding: "I think it is unfair to me that restoring the names is up for discussion."

 

[RLLD 4,275]

3 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

It is a shame that those high schools are named after those traitors. This kid has a really good point..what do you think of it?  

 

I think this notion of renaming schools, tearing down statues and recreating mascots is indicative that people are running out of ways to suggest racism is real, so in a sense I see it as a win because it could be the harbinger of the end of the whining and a shift toward just living life.   So is a net positive IMHO.

None of this silliness amounts to anything other than wasted time. Time that could be spent improving things that deliver value.  But if this is how they want to spend their time, let them have at it.  To me its the same thing as people drinking alcohol to "feed better", in the end it wont give then what they want.

[Cdub100 3,995]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

Not sure how this ongoing game around names and statues helps a mother focking thing......   change the names......tear down the statues, or put them back up..... 

Its all bullsh!t distraction, and pointless adding no value what so ever

Normally I would agree, but we should correct a wrong even if it's inconvenient 

[The Real timschochet 7,404]

Turner Ashby didn’t really “lead the pro-slavery states.” He was supposedly a genius horseman, kind of dashing, but he died in the first major Shenandoah battle. 

[The Real timschochet 7,404]

Personally I wish there was a way to remember Confederate figures without celebrating slavery or racism.  Stonewall Jackson, for instance, was a brilliant general and his exploits in the Shenandoah Valley in particular should be studied and even celebrated. But the cause for which he fought should not be. Even so Im not in favor of exorcising his memory. 

[Herbivore 1,193]

19 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think this notion of renaming schools, tearing down statues and recreating mascots is indicative that people are running out of ways to suggest racism is real, so in a sense I see it as a win because it could be the harbinger of the end of the whining and a shift toward just living life.   So is a net positive IMHO.

None of this silliness amounts to anything other than wasted time. Time that could be spent improving things that deliver value.  But if this is how they want to spend their time, let them have at it.  To me its the same thing as people drinking alcohol to "feed better", in the end it wont give then what they want.

you ignored my question. this kid laid a very reasonable reason to change the name from the traitor that it was named after. there is no good reason to spend any time to restore the name to said traitor. so please answer the question below, and what reason do you believe drove the board to change it back to the traitor? (sorry for all the bad English)

22 minutes ago, RLLD said:

This kid has a really good point..what do you think of it? 

 

22 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Normally I would agree, but we should correct a wrong even if it's inconvenient 

things like renaming these high schools seems like an obvious choice. its not even inconvenient. 

[RLLD 4,275]

2 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

you ignored my question. this kid laid a very reasonable reason to change the name from the traitor that it was named after. there is no good reason to spend any time to restore the name to said traitor. so please answer the question below, and what reason do you believe drove the board to change it back to the traitor? (sorry for all the bad English)

 

things like renaming these high schools seems like an obvious choice. its not even inconvenient. 

You and I clearly agree.   

It was a waste of time and effort to change the name in the first place, and its perhaps an even worse waste of time to change it back.  This was my position from the jump.

I think those changing it back are just pushing back against people changing things.  There are those who insist on changing, and there are those who insist on NOT changing. 

IMHO.....they are both focking stupid.

[Cdub100 3,995]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Personally I wish there was a way to remember Confederate figures without celebrating slavery or racism.  Stonewall Jackson, for instance, was a brilliant general and his exploits in the Shenandoah Valley in particular should be studied and even celebrated. But the cause for which he fought should not be. Even so Im not in favor of exorcising his memory. 

First correction - Confederate soldiers ARE American soldiers. 

Second correction -  99.999% of the soldiers (just to be clear I'm talking about the people who did the fighting) weren't fighting to keep slavery they fought for state rights. 

 

[Herbivore 1,193]

Just now, RLLD said:

You and I clearly agree.   

It was a waste of time and effort to change the name in the first place, and its perhaps an even worse waste of time to change it back.  This was my position from the jump.

I think those changing it back are just pushing back against people changing things.  There are those who insist on changing, and there are those who insist on NOT changing. 

IMHO.....they are both focking stupid.

we don't agree. I support changing the name initially. The idea that anyone would name a high school or just about anything else after Confederate leaders is a joke. They are an embarrassment of history. Honoring them in anyway is an embarrassment to the community that does so. 

You are just not going to address the question you have been asked though huh?

[The Real timschochet 7,404]

13 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

First correction - Confederate soldiers ARE American soldiers. 

Second correction -  99.999% of the soldiers (just to be clear I'm talking about the people who did the fighting) weren't fighting to keep slavery they fought for state rights. 

 

You may be correcting somebody here but not me. I didn’t make either assertion, and I actually agree with you on both points (must be a first for me.) 

[Johnny Lawrence 5]

22 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

First correction - Confederate soldiers ARE American soldiers. 

Second correction -  99.999% of the soldiers (just to be clear I'm talking about the people who did the fighting) weren't fighting to keep slavery they fought for state rights. 

 

A state's right to do what exactly? allow slavery

[iam90sbaby 2,727]

1 hour ago, Herbivore said:

It is a shame that those high schools are named after those traitors. This kid has a really good point..what do you think of it?  

 

Fock'em

[RLLD 4,275]

19 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

we don't agree. I support changing the name initially. The idea that anyone would name a high school or just about anything else after Confederate leaders is a joke. They are an embarrassment of history. Honoring them in anyway is an embarrassment to the community that does so. 

You are just not going to address the question you have been asked though huh?

I did answer your question.

We may disagree on the initial change, but I infer we find common ground on the change back at least?

[Engorgeous George 2,332]

Interesting decision.  After having ripped off the band aid they decide to put it right back on so it can be ripped off again, potentially.

[Herbivore 1,193]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I did answer your question.

We may disagree on the initial change, but I infer we find common ground on the change back at least?

No, you didn't answer my question. 

This was the quote from the article.."I am a Black student, and if the names are restored, I would have to represent a man that fought for my ancestors to be slaves," one student said in a direct appeal to the board members, later adding: "I think it is unfair to me that restoring the names is up for discussion."

I asked you...This kid has a really good point..what do you think of it? 

 

to your last point that I bolded..we do not, and I am starting to wonder if your reading comprehension is challenged. 

[Herbivore 1,193]

7 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Fock'em

see @RLLD , this is actually an answer. 

[RLLD 4,275]

1 minute ago, Herbivore said:

No, you didn't answer my question. 

This was the quote from the article.."I am a Black student, and if the names are restored, I would have to represent a man that fought for my ancestors to be slaves," one student said in a direct appeal to the board members, later adding: "I think it is unfair to me that restoring the names is up for discussion."

I asked you...This kid has a really good point..what do you think of it? 

 

to your last point that I bolded..we do not, and I am starting to wonder if your reading comprehension is challenged. 

The kid has a fine point I guess, I really dont care what his rationale is.....it matter no more to me than some attempt to rationalize changing it from the start.....nor the current effort to change it back.....stupid is stupid, regardless of who is doing it or why....

[The Real timschochet 7,404]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Lawrence said:

A state's right to do what exactly? allow slavery

Yes and no. 
 

Following the Battle of Shiloh, captured Confederate soldiers, the vast majority of whom owned no slaves whatsoever, were asked why they fought. The answer was “because you’re here (in Mississippi, invading the South.)” 

This is extremely important to understand. 

[RLLD 4,275]

1 minute ago, Herbivore said:

see @RLLD , this is actually an answer. 

Thats fine, I was under the impression your reading comprehension was at a higher level, my mistake, i replied and made it as clear as i think is warranted.....unless you need it at six-year old level....let me know, i guess...  

[Herbivore 1,193]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Thats fine, I was under the impression your reading comprehension was at a higher level, my mistake, i replied and made it as clear as i think is warranted.....unless you need it at six-year old level....let me know, i guess...  

sure buddy

[edjr 6,894]

raccissssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Real timschochet 7,404]

Suppose you lived in Alabama or Georgia back then: you didn’t own any slaves, you hated slavery. You thought it was stupid (and traitorous) to secede from the Union, you were against it. But you still love your state.  And  now a year into the war, the Yankee soldiers are coming. They’re killing your neighbors, they’re destroying farmland to starve people you know and love, they’re burning buildings and homes along the way. What would you do? 
 

I think if it were me I would put on the Gray and fight to defend my home. I don’t think that would make me a traitor. 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

Good.  Maybe this will be a lesson to both Liberals and Conservatives - you can’t give any concessions to the Left to appease their delicate feelings or they will abuse it.  They went from a very reasonable request (removing Confederate symbols) and within a short period of time started extending it to the founding fathers.

We can’t give an inch to these lunatics.  Not one focking inch.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

 No statues for losers. What are we, some euro weenie country that surrendered? 

[Engorgeous George 2,332]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Suppose you lived in Alabama or Georgia back then: you didn’t own any slaves, you hated slavery. You thought it was stupid (and traitorous) to secede from the Union, you were against it. But you still love your state.  And  now a year into the war, the Yankee soldiers are coming. They’re killing your neighbors, they’re destroying farmland to starve people you know and love, they’re burning buildings and homes along the way. What would you do? Learn each verse to the  Battle Hymm of the Republic and sing it zestfully as the Yankees approached?
 

I think if it were me I would put on the Gray and fight to defend my home. I don’t think that would make me a traitor. 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

1 minute ago, Patented Phil said:

Good.  Maybe this will be a lesson to both Liberals and Conservatives - you can’t give one focking inch to the Left or they will abuse it.  They went from a very reasonable request (removing Confederate symbols) and within a short period of time started extending it to taking down statues of the founding fathers.

We can’t give one inch to these lunatics.  Not one focking inch.

Good point. Just look at abortion. 

[The Real timschochet 7,404]

4 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

Good.  Maybe this will be a lesson to both Liberals and Conservatives - you can’t give one focking inch to the Left or they will abuse it.  They went from a very reasonable request (removing Confederate symbols) and within a short period of time started extending it to the founding fathers.

We can’t give an inch to these lunatics.  Not one focking inch.

This is the wrong attitude. If something makes sense you agree with it. If something doesn’t make sense you disagree with it. What’s wrong with that? 
 

Your way makes people, not ideas, your enemy.

[Patented Phil 1,469]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

This is the wrong attitude. If something makes sense you agree with it. If something doesn’t make sense you disagree with it. What’s wrong with that? 
 

Your way makes people, not ideas, your enemy.

Your characterization of my opinion is 100% correct.  There is no dealing with Leftists.  They can’t be talked to and reasoned with.  Sorry, hate to say it about my countrymen but it’s true.

[The Real timschochet 7,404]

2 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

Your characterization of my opinion is 100% correct.  There is no dealing with Leftists.  They can’t be talked to and reasoned with.  Sorry, hate to say it about my countrymen but it’s true.

I’m not a leftist though I agree with them on some issues (not most). I agree with conservatives on many issues. No offense but I think your position is irrational. 

[Johnny Lawrence 5]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yes and no. 
 

Following the Battle of Shiloh, captured Confederate soldiers, the vast majority of whom owned no slaves whatsoever, were asked why they fought. The answer was “because you’re here (in Mississippi, invading the South.)” 

This is extremely important to understand. 

Fair... but lets not pretend that these non slave owners didnt understand what "the cause" was about either. The Confederate Constitution was nearly the same as our own, save a Line item veto by the executive and the line "No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed." 

Also in an 1861 speech Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederacy proclaimed that slavery was not only the cause for succession but also the "Cornerstone" of the Confederate Nation. I get your argument that if someone invaded my home, I would take up arms against them too, but lets not act like these soldiers weren't complicit in the continuation of the institution of slavery.

 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Lawrence said:

Fair... but lets not pretend that these non slave owners didnt understand what "the cause" was about either. The Confederate Constitution was nearly the same as our own, save a Line item veto by the executive and the line "No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed." 

Also in an 1861 speech Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederacy proclaimed that slavery was not only the cause for succession but also the "Cornerstone" of the Confederate Nation. I get your argument that if someone invaded my home, I would take up arms against them too, but lets not act like these soldiers weren't complicit in the continuation of the institution of slavery.

 

Must be nice to have such moral clarity with the benefit of almost 200 years of hindsight.  I can assure you the issue of slavery wasn’t as black and white (no pun intended) as you’d like to believe it was.  But if it makes you feel good about yourself, have at it.

[Johnny Lawrence 5]

Just now, Patented Phil said:

Must be nice to have such moral clarity with the benefit of almost 200 years of hindsight.  I can assure you the issue of slavery wasn’t as black and white (no pun intended) as you’d like to believe it was.  But if it makes you feel good about yourself, have at it.

LOL ok... makes me feel neither good nor bad, nor do I claim some sort of moral superiority over our ancestors... Of course it wasn't as "Black and white" for many at the time... I also understand that at the time one identified 1st with their state then country ( as Robert E. Lee did) I'm just stating that is Historically inaccurate to claim that the Civil War was a State's Right issue first and foremost. As for the Confederate names of schools and Statues... Leave them up, doesn't bother me a bit
 

[Mike Honcho 5,415]

We should name some schools for Edwin Rommel, he was also a fine general we fought against.  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,911]

The Yankees don’t put up banners for being in the World Series, only for winning it. Because they are the New York Yankees. No monuments to losing. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,660]

18 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The Yankees don’t put up banners for being in the World Series, only for winning it. Because they are the New York Yankees. No monuments to losing. 

Yes they do... it's just called an "ALCS banner".