California is 1st state to ban school rules requiring parents get notified of child’s pronoun change

[GutterBoy 2,898]

4 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

It's not at all a different story... it's the same thing.  When a kid says "please don't tell my parents or they will go balastic and kick me out of the house ", that's not a form of abuse?

Well it's hard to tell from just that statement, if they're serious or whatever.  The point is, if the kid doesn't want their parents to know, the teacher shouldn't be forced to tell them, same as a therapist.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

2 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

If my son comes to me and says he’s gay I say cool. If he comes to me and says he’s trans I pull him from that school and get him serious psychological help. 
 

I have yet to meet a single trans who doesn’t have major psychological issues 

Case in point.

What if the kid knows this, kid talks to the teacher, but doesn't want to get pulled from school and put in a mental hospital, kid might ask teacher not to say anything.

Or if the kid knows teacher has to tell the parent, then they lose a trusted adult that they can talk to.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

No it didn’t. Why are you making sh!t up? 

I didn't make anything up.  Apparently we have a different opinion on what that link said.  I read it as the abuse came before the kids transitioned... you, for some unknown reason, think the opposite.  

[squistion 1,956]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

Case in point.

What if the kid knows this, kid talks to the teacher, but doesn't want to get pulled from school and put in a mental hospital, kid might ask teacher not to say anything.

Or if the kid knows teacher has to tell the parent, then they lose a trusted adult that they can talk to.

Or so one would think, but perhaps that is too logical.

And if the teacher is required to tell the parent, and the child knows that the parent might react negatively, then they probably won't mention this to a teacher (which I can't see as being a good thing as far as the mental health of the child is concerned).

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

12 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

If my son comes to me and says he’s gay I say cool. If he comes to me and says he’s trans I pull him from that school and get him serious psychological help. 
 

 

And if you force him to do this, that’s a form of abuse. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

Just now, squistion said:

Or so one would think, but perhaps that is too logical.

And if the teacher is required to tell the parent, and the child knows that the parent might react negatively, then they probably won't mention this to a teacher (which I can't see as being a good thing as far as the mental health of the child is concerned).

exactly, that was my third point.

So net net this is a good law, we can all agree.

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

8 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I didn't make anything up.  Apparently we have a different opinion on what that link said.  I read it as the abuse came before the kids transitioned... you, for some unknown reason, think the opposite.  

The abuse comes from parents reacting to the news that the kid might be gay or trans. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

7 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Well it's hard to tell from just that statement, if they're serious or whatever.  The point is, if the kid doesn't want their parents to know, the teacher shouldn't be forced to tell them, same as a therapist.

What if the kid cheats on a test and the kid tells the teacher not to tell their parents?  That's ok to keep from the parents too?  If so, why do the parents need to be told anything?

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

The abuse comes from parents reacting to the news that the kid might be gay or trans. 

You're assuming that.  Their study didn't say that.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,242]

19 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Case in point.

What if the kid knows this, kid talks to the teacher, but doesn't want to get pulled from school and put in a mental hospital, kid might ask teacher not to say anything.

Or if the kid knows teacher has to tell the parent, then they lose a trusted adult that they can talk to.

Case in point. My son is 12. I’ve raised him 12 years. He’s never show a single solitary sign of being feminine in the slightest. Now he goes to a school with all this crap and suddenly it’s a thing. 
 

nope

and im a trusted an adult. I’ve been having adult conversations with my son since he was 4. He comes to me about everything 

[TheNewGirl 1,355]

33 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

And this is bullsh!t as well. Any friend of yours that hates capitalism is no liberal. One cannot be a liberal and be anti-capitalism. 
 

Apart from extreme leftists the biggest haters of capitalism these days are MAGA conservatives with their anti-trade, anti-immigrant positions. 

I'll be sure to tell them this, I'm sure it will go over well. 

 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

6 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

What if the kid cheats on a test and the kid tells the teacher not to tell their parents?  That's ok to keep from the parents too?  If so, why do the parents need to be told anything?

smh

Yes, the parents should be notified about cheating.  Stop acting like a doosh.  We function as a society in using discretion in what information to share with others and when it's necessary.

Some people felt it was necessary for teachers to share with parents about kids pronouns, because of bigotry.  Unfortunately they had to pass a law to protect the kid.  And here we are.

In reality this probably happens a handful of times a year, if that, but it;s a multipage thread because this board is obsessed with trannies.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,242]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

And if you force him to do this, that’s a form of abuse. 

No it’s not. I forced my son to get therapy when my wife and I split. Is that child abuse.  Spare me. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

3 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Case in point. My son is 12. I’ve raised him 12 years. He’s never show a single solitary sign of being feminine in the slightest. Now he goes to a school with all this crap and suddenly it’s a thing. 
 

nope

and im a trusted an adult. I’ve been having adult conversations with my son since he was 4. He comes to me about everything 

Are you scared your kid is going to be brainwashed to turn into a tranny?

[jerryskids 6,575]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8344346/

I think you have a chicken and egg problem. Kids aren't abused because they are LGBTQ, rather they become LGBTQ because they are abused.  

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,242]

3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Are you scared your kid is going to be brainwashed to turn into a tranny?

Not at all cause I know my kid. But he wouldnt get that idea anywhere else. And all schools are are about brainwashing 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,953]

3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Are you scared your kid is going to be brainwashed to turn into a tranny?

It’s none of your business. How’s that? 

[squistion 1,956]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I think you have a chicken and egg problem. Kids aren't abused because they are LGBTQ, rather they become LGBTQ because they are abused.  

There is no statistical proof to back up that decades old discredited meme that kids become LGBT because they were recruited. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

2 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Not at all cause I know my kid. 

Good.  So then this law really has no impact on you.

Moral of the story, foster a good relationship with your children.

[jerryskids 6,575]

6 minutes ago, squistion said:

There is no statistical proof to back up that decades old discredited meme that kids become LGBT because they were recruited. 

Who said recruited?   What are you talking about?

[squistion 1,956]

Just now, jerryskids said:

Who said recruited?   What are you talking about?

What kind of abuse do you think causes them to become LGBTQ? It doesn't matter because there are no stats that prove either physical abuse or sexual abuse is related to being or becoming LGBTQ.

[Mark Davis 339]

45 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I didn't make anything up.  Apparently we have a different opinion on what that link said.  I read it as the abuse came before the kids transitioned... you, for some unknown reason, think the opposite.  

I read it the same way.  I re-read it.  Then I read back in this thread to see if I was mistaken and I was the only one who read it that way.  My gut feeling was that no I'm not surprised someone who is abused is having mental issues.

[jerryskids 6,575]

12 minutes ago, squistion said:

What kind of abuse do you think causes them to become LGBTQ? It doesn't matter because there are no stats that prove either physical abuse or sexual abuse is related to being or becoming LGBTQ.

Anecdotally, the one trans kid I knew fairly well (friend of my daughter) was a boy who lived in a focked up, abusive home.  I thought he was crying out for help, but it wasn't my place to say. I learned that a year or two after I last saw him that he went back to being a boy. I don't know if his family life improved.

I have a hard time believing that he is the only one.

As to your statement specifically,  Tim's link showed the correlation.  That's how we got here.

 

[Gladiators 1,964]

13 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

I read it the same way.  I re-read it.  Then I read back in this thread to see if I was mistaken and I was the only one who read it that way.  My gut feeling was that no I'm not surprised someone who is abused is having mental issues.

Agreed

[squistion 1,956]

5 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Anecdotally, the one trans kid I knew fairly well (friend of my daughter) was a boy who lived in a focked up, abusive home.  I thought he was crying out for help, but it wasn't my place to say. I learned that a year or two after I last saw him that he went back to being a boy. I don't know if his family life improved.

I have a hard time believing that he is the only one.

As to your statement specifically,  Tim's link showed the correlation.  That's how we got here.

 

Does Tim's link show that some sort of abuse is what causes kids to become LGBTQ? (I would seriously doubt that it does).

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

10 minutes ago, squistion said:

Does Tim's link show that some sort of abuse is what causes kids to become LGBTQ? (I would seriously doubt that it does).

No it doesn’t. They are reversing the correlation. It is the gay and trans that creates the abuse. The abuse comes less from inside factors such as the specific personality of the parents, and much more from outside factors like the conservative antagonism towards gay and trans, the belief in the face of all evidence that trans is a mental disorder, etc. 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

1 hour ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

No it’s not. I forced my son to get therapy when my wife and I split. Is that child abuse.  Spare me. 

No, if you got a therapist to help your son deal with the reality of your split from your wife, that wouldn’t be abuse. If however you forced your son to undergo therapy to try and convince him that you really didn’t split from your wife, that would be abuse. 
 

And that’s exactly what you’d be trying to get your son to do in the scenario you described- accept an unreality. Here is the disconnect between what you believe and what medical experts tell us: nobody can talk your son into becoming trans. If your son is trans, nobody can talk your son out of it. Any attempt to do so is a form of abuse. 

[BrahmaBulls 628]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

Who the fock cares if the kid is being abused prior to any of this.  If the kid comes to the teacher and shares her struggles and says "please don't tell my parents or they will go balastic and kick me out of the house" then the teacher shouldn't have a legal obligation to do so.  And now in CA they don't, thanks to this law.

They should have a legal obligation to report an abusive parent if they're concerned.  If they aren't concerned, they shouldn't be withholding information from a parent.  

[TheNewGirl 1,355]

47 minutes ago, squistion said:

What kind of abuse do you think causes them to become LGBTQ? It doesn't matter because there are no stats that prove either physical abuse or sexual abuse is related to being or becoming LGBTQ.

I don't think anyone is saying that abuse CAUSES one to be LGBTQ; or being that way. 

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No it doesn’t. They are reversing the correlation. It is the gay and trans that creates the abuse. The abuse comes less from inside factors such as the specific personality of the parents, and much more from outside factors like the conservative antagonism towards gay and trans, the belief in the face of all evidence that trans is a mental disorder, etc. 

If you have gender dysphoria, how do they treat it? How is it "corrected?" 

[jerryskids 6,575]

40 minutes ago, squistion said:

Does Tim's link show that some sort of abuse is what causes kids to become LGBTQ? (I would seriously doubt that it does).

 

27 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No it doesn’t. They are reversing the correlation. It is the gay and trans that creates the abuse. The abuse comes less from inside factors such as the specific personality of the parents, and much more from outside factors like the conservative antagonism towards gay and trans, the belief in the face of all evidence that trans is a mental disorder, etc. 

You are confusing correlation with causation.  His link doesn't show causation, it points out the correlations between abuse, transgenderism, and mental health issues.

You view this through the absolute lens that all TGs are nature vs nurture.  To use Tim's vernacular, full stop.

Others on the right here take the polar opposite view, which is that all TG is mental illness and not real.

I take the pragmatic middle ground that there is some of both.  But there is no arguing with an absolutist cult.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,242]

29 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No, if you got a therapist to help your son deal with the reality of your split from your wife, that wouldn’t be abuse. If however you forced your son to undergo therapy to try and convince him that you really didn’t split from your wife, that would be abuse. 
 

And that’s exactly what you’d be trying to get your son to do in the scenario you described- accept an unreality. Here is the disconnect between what you believe and what medical experts tell us: nobody can talk your son into becoming trans. If your son is trans, nobody can talk your son out of it. Any attempt to do so is a form of abuse. 

did I say I would have that therapist do anything specific?

the reality in your scenario is that you dont just magically become trans, so what your reality is that its totally plausable that these hollywood chicks have 3 trans kids, but theres no influence whatsoever

I am more than willing to talk rationally about trans, I have 2 really good trans friends I talk about this with alot.  I value their opinions way more than virtue signaling progressive california liberals

 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

24 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

You are confusing correlation with causation.  His link doesn't show causation, it points out the correlations between abuse, transgenderism, and mental health issues.

You view this through the absolute lens that all TGs are nature vs nurture.  To use Tim's vernacular, full stop.

Others on the right here take the polar opposite view, which is that all TG is mental illness and not real.

I take the pragmatic middle ground that there is some of both.  But there is no arguing with an absolutist cult.

How can it be an “absolutist cult” if I am relying on medical experts? And I know, you say I’m relying on American experts who are influenced by woke and that British experts disagree; we’ve been through all that. But the fact remains that I am still trusting the scientists here the way I would a car mechanic or an airline pilot. It’s not some religious guru telling me that trans is not a mental illness. So it isn’t a cult. 

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

47 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

I don't think anyone is saying that abuse CAUSES one to be LGBTQ; or being that way. 

If you have gender dysphoria, how do they treat it? How is it "corrected?" 

Depends on the patient doesn’t it? I believe that it’s mostly treated by hormone therapy and eventually an operation. 

[squistion 1,956]

58 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No it doesn’t. They are reversing the correlation. It is the gay and trans that creates the abuse. The abuse comes less from inside factors such as the specific personality of the parents, and much more from outside factors like the conservative antagonism towards gay and trans, the belief in the face of all evidence that trans is a mental disorder, etc. 

As I suspected.

I knew they misstated or misinterpreted these stats because I have yet to see anything that proves that sexual or physical abuse is a cause of being LGBTQ - there are no credible stats or studies to back up that claim.

[The Real timschochet 6,446]

I was in Berlin the other day and we went to the site outside of the university where, in 1933, Josef Goebbels had students engage in book burning. The very first book put to the torch was written by a transgender discussing her transformation. One would have hoped that we’ve come a long way since then but I have to wonder…

[jerryskids 6,575]

21 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

How can it be an “absolutist cult” if I am relying on medical experts? And I know, you say I’m relying on American experts who are influenced by woke and that British experts disagree; we’ve been through all that. But the fact remains that I am still trusting the scientists here the way I would a car mechanic or an airline pilot. It’s not some religious guru telling me that trans is not a mental illness. So it isn’t a cult. 

Your expert political and lobbying groups are telling you it is unequivocally 100% nature? Hint: I've shown you otherwise multiple times. You choose to ignore it and we have this Groundhog Day discussion again.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

16 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

smh

Yes, the parents should be notified about cheating.  Stop acting like a doosh.  We function as a society in using discretion in what information to share with others and when it's necessary.

Some people felt it was necessary for teachers to share with parents about kids pronouns, because of bigotry.  Unfortunately they had to pass a law to protect the kid.  And here we are.

In reality this probably happens a handful of times a year, if that, but it;s a multipage thread because this board is obsessed with trannies.

Ok, so just so we're clear, if a kid tells a teacher that if their parent will be angry with them... the teacher can ONLY without that information, if it relates to them being trans?

Gotta love it when people are acting as if discretion should only be held by the government over it's constituency, but the other side are the fascists.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

16 hours ago, Mark Davis said:

I read it the same way.  I re-read it.  Then I read back in this thread to see if I was mistaken and I was the only one who read it that way.  My gut feeling was that no I'm not surprised someone who is abused is having mental issues.

Exactly.

[RLLD 4,143]

15 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

How can it be an “absolutist cult” if I am relying on medical experts? And I know, you say I’m relying on American experts who are influenced by woke and that British experts disagree; we’ve been through all that. But the fact remains that I am still trusting the scientists here the way I would a car mechanic or an airline pilot. It’s not some religious guru telling me that trans is not a mental illness. So it isn’t a cult. 

There is a lesson to be derived here.  Implicit trust in those we see as "leaders" is a path to bad outcomes.  What has transpired here is medical testing that Nazi doctors would admire.  A global experiment on children.

Europe caught on to this and is acting like scientists are supposed to, and admitting they were wrong.

There is a cultural problem in this nation when it comes to admitting we are wrong.  We lack this skill. 

 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

21 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Ok, so just so we're clear, if a kid tells a teacher that if their parent will be angry with them... the teacher can ONLY without that information, if it relates to them being trans?

Gotta love it when people are acting as if discretion should only be held by the government over it's constituency, but the other side are the fascists.  

This is a nonsensical sentence, but I'll try and interpret it.

I think what you're trying to say is that a teacher is only allowed to keep information from the parent if it relates to being trans.  If so, no, that's not the case.  If a parent sees a boy wearing a dress, they don't have to tell the parents.  If a teacher sees a girl kissing another girl, they don't have to tell the parents.  If a kid tells a teacher they are gay, teacher doesn't have to tell parent.  But for some reason kid asks teacher to call them "them" instead of "him", then the school requires the teacher to tell the parent.  Odd isn't it?  Why only that?  So the law changes that to give the teacher discretion to tell the parent, just like anything else, just like it was before.