Discussion of Concerns for Trump Presidency

[The Real timschochet 6,468]

1 hour ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

You don't think he's telling Bondi exactly what to do?

Not exactly. 

IMO what Trump wants is for somebody to tell him “yes you can absolutely prosecute these guys, it’s totally legitimate, you won’t get in trouble for it.” I doubt anyone is going to tell him that. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,964]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

He gave himself an out on that, said it was up to Bondi.

Any prosecution of Trump’s enemies will blow up right in his face. He’s not smart enough to see this but I suspect Bondi is 

Yes, it could blow up and ruin his re- election chances.  

[jonmx 2,424]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

He gave himself an out on that, said it was up to Bondi.

Any prosecution of Trump’s enemies will blow up right in his face. He’s not smart enough to see this but I suspect Bondi is 

 

Not it won't.  As long as Trumo targets the worst abusers.  The establishment bootlicking media does not have the power they once had where they could manipulate public opinion and force politicians to cave.   The independant media has more reach and are able to see through which prosecutions are malicious and which prosecutions are justified without the deep state filter trying to protect their own at all costs.   They will just be screaming into their small little echo chamber. 

[jerryskids 6,577]

On 12/8/2024 at 12:42 PM, IGotWorms said:

I have concerns about all of this:

 

• President-elect Donald J. Trump made clear in an interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press” that aired on Sunday that he would like to see his perceived political enemies punished, including members of the congressional committee that investigated the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, who he said should be jailed. He also said he would act “very quickly” to pardon people convicted in the riot.

• Mr. Trump also said he would seek to end automatic citizenship for children born in the United States to immigrant parents and said “you have to” deport everyone who is in the country illegally. But he added that he would work on a plan to allow those brought to the country as children, known as Dreamers, to stay.

• Ukraine should “probably” expect less aid when he returns to the White House, he said. He also said that he had not spoken to President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia before backtracking and saying that he did not want to talk about it. Mr. Trump refused to commit to staying in NATO, but said the United States would remain in the alliance if treated “fairly.”

• The appearance, Mr. Trump’s first broadcast network interview since he won the election last month, also touched on economic issues. He disagreed that his tariff plans would make goods more expensive for consumers but conceded that he “can’t guarantee anything.” 

These are all valid concerns; my thoughts:

1. I don't think he's going to just make up reasons to prosecute people, and I suspect very few will happen.  I can't help but laugh tho, that the only difference between this and the multiple spurious criminal and civil cases against Trump, is that he said it out loud.  Actually I think Bragg ran on a platform of getting Trump, but that's OK because Trump is the mean orange bad guy, amirite?!  Regarding the 1/6 folks, I agree with pardoning all but the actual bad people of which there were a few, as has been said earlier.

2. I'm kinda intrigued by this.  I think if we limited birthright citizenship to those here legally (permanent residents, H1B, student visas), that would do more to stem the tide of illegal immigration than any attempts to mass deport people, and it's kinda free.  Take away the incentives, take away the problems.  I would concede making it active moving forward and let the Dreamers become citizens as a compromise.  I would not agree to including "asylum seekers" in the group here legally, as that is being significantly abused.  Deal?   

3. Ukraine, NATO... seems like "art of the deal" kinda stuff.  He's not going to leave NATO, but he will work to broker a deal with Putin and Ukraine, the obvious solution of which is to let Putin keep Crimea and Donbass, allow people who want to to move from those areas into Ukraine (with some funding to set up a new life), and allow Ukraine to enter NATO.  Shiot, I should do this for a living!

4. Tariffs I've talked about, I think it's mostly more "art of the deal" stuff, he's trying to pressure China, Mexico, etc. to come to the table.  I also think if he tries something and it doesn't work, he'll undo it.  Like I said in an earlier thread, tariffs can change with the swipe of a pen.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

These are all valid concerns; my thoughts:

1. I don't think he's going to just make up reasons to prosecute people, and I suspect very few will happen.  I can't help but laugh tho, that the only difference between this and the multiple spurious criminal and civil cases against Trump, is that he said it out loud.  Actually I think Bragg ran on a platform of getting Trump, but that's OK because Trump is the mean orange bad guy, amirite?!  Regarding the 1/6 folks, I agree with pardoning all but the actual bad people of which there were a few, as has been said earlier.

2. I'm kinda intrigued by this.  I think if we limited birthright citizenship to those here legally (permanent residents, H1B, student visas), that would do more to stem the tide of illegal immigration than any attempts to mass deport people, and it's kinda free.  Take away the incentives, take away the problems.  I would concede making it active moving forward and let the Dreamers become citizens as a compromise.  I would not agree to including "asylum seekers" in the group here legally, as that is being significantly abused.  Deal?   

3. Ukraine, NATO... seems like "art of the deal" kinda stuff.  He's not going to leave NATO, but he will work to broker a deal with Putin and Ukraine, the obvious solution of which is to let Putin keep Crimea and Donbass, allow people who want to to move from those areas into Ukraine (with some funding to set up a new life), and allow Ukraine to enter NATO.  Shiot, I should do this for a living!

4. Tariffs I've talked about, I think it's mostly more "art of the deal" stuff, he's trying to pressure China, Mexico, etc. to come to the table.  I also think if he tries something and it doesn't work, he'll undo it.  Like I said in an earlier thread, tariffs can change with the swipe of a pen.

That’s a mostly reasonable take. On birthright citizenship, changing that is a fundamental shift in who we are as a nation. Ironically, it would make us much more like Europe, actually. I guess you could make a case that it’s time since we’re no longer trying to fill up our country with people looking to start a new life. Although, that was always our entire reason for existing.

Anyway, it’s not the kind of thing you just toss out there. And I believe it’d have to be done through constitutional amendment? So I dunno, maybe it’s just an excuse Trump is planting for when illegal immigration doesn’t go away.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,964]

So Worms, two illegals come here and have some kids and the whole family gets to stay? 

[jerryskids 6,577]

32 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

That’s a mostly reasonable take. On birthright citizenship, changing that is a fundamental shift in who we are as a nation. Ironically, it would make us much more like Europe, actually. I guess you could make a case that it’s time since we’re no longer trying to fill up our country with people looking to start a new life. Although, that was always our entire reason for existing.

Anyway, it’s not the kind of thing you just toss out there. And I believe it’d have to be done through constitutional amendment? So I dunno, maybe it’s just an excuse Trump is planting for when illegal immigration doesn’t go away.

I did some research on this, interesting stuff.  Regarding a constitutional amendment... possibly, but maybe not.  It might come down to interpretation of the language of the 14th amendment, and this court may see fit to interpret it differently.

Quote

United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), was a landmark decision^[4] of the U.S. Supreme Court which held that "a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China",^[5] automatically became a U.S. citizen at birth.^[6] This decision established an important precedent in its interpretation of the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution.^[7]

Wong Kim Ark, who was born in San Francisco in 1873, had been denied re-entry to the United States after a trip abroad, under the Chinese Exclusion Act, a law banning virtually all Chinese immigration and prohibiting Chinese immigrants from becoming naturalized U.S. citizens. He challenged the government's refusal to recognize his citizenship, and the Supreme Court ruled in his favor, holding that the citizenship language in the Fourteenth Amendment encompassed the circumstances of his birth and could not be limited in its effect by an act of Congress.^[8]

The case highlighted disagreements over the precise meaning of one phrase in the Citizenship Clause—namely, the provision that a person born in the United States who is "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" acquires automatic citizenship. The Supreme Court's majority concluded that this phrase referred to being required to obey U.S. law; on this basis, they interpreted the language of the Fourteenth Amendment in a way that granted U.S. citizenship to children born of foreigners (a concept known as jus soli), with only a limited set of exceptions mostly based in English common law.^[2] The court's dissenters argued that being subject to the jurisdiction of the United States meant not being subject to any foreign power^[9]—that is, not being claimed as a citizen by another country via jus sanguinis (inheriting citizenship from a parent)—an interpretation which, in the minority's view, would have excluded "the children of foreigners, happening to be born to them while passing through the country".^[10]

In the words of a 2007 legal analysis of events following the Wong Kim Ark decision, "The parameters of the jus soli principle, as stated by the court in Wong Kim Ark, have never been seriously questioned by the Supreme Court, and have been accepted as dogma by lower courts."^[11] A 2010 review of the history of the Citizenship Clause notes that the Wong Kim Ark decision held that the guarantee of birthright citizenship "applies to children of foreigners present on American soil" and states that the Supreme Court "has not re-examined this issue since the concept of 'illegal alien' entered the language".^[12] Since the 1990s, however, controversy has arisen over the longstanding practice of granting automatic citizenship to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants, and legal scholars disagree over whether the Wong Kim Ark precedent applies when alien parents are in the country illegally.^[13][14] Attempts have been made from time to time in Congress to restrict birthright citizenship, either via statutory redefinition of the term jurisdiction, or by overriding both the Wong Kim Ark ruling and the Citizenship Clause itself through an amendment to the Constitution, but no such proposal has been enacted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark

[Strike 5,230]

21 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I did some research on this, interesting stuff.  Regarding a constitutional amendment... possibly, but maybe not.  It might come down to interpretation of the language of the 14th amendment, and this court may see fit to interpret it differently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark

I've made this case repeatedly over the years. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

28 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I did some research on this, interesting stuff.  Regarding a constitutional amendment... possibly, but maybe not.  It might come down to interpretation of the language of the 14th amendment, and this court may see fit to interpret it differently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark

Yeah that’s why I said maybe. It’s an interesting issue. But he sure as sh1t can’t resolve it through a simple executive order like he claims

[naomi 356]

On 12/8/2024 at 9:09 AM, Strike said:

Congratulations @naomi.  I'm very happy for you!!! 

Aww. Thanks Strike

[jerryskids 6,577]

29 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Yeah that’s why I said maybe. It’s an interesting issue. But he sure as sh1t can’t resolve it through a simple executive order like he claims

I don't know what he claimed.  He claims a lot of stuff.   He might try, which would probably accelerate it to SCOTUS.

I honestly think this is an important topic which needs to be addressed.  And it's clearly a federal issue, so they won't just kick it back to the states.

[The Real timschochet 6,468]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

I've made this case repeatedly over the years. 

Let’s hope you’re wrong. 

[thegeneral 2,947]

Link

For one billion you can get “expedited” approvals and permits.

oh ok

[Maximum Overkill 1,743]

 

 

[seafoam1 2,805]

On 12/9/2024 at 9:37 AM, The Real timschochet said:

$2 an hour? Damn you’re ignorant. You really should leave this discussion to the grownups, you know nothing about it. 

I was giving you a break for your $1.25 an hour rate that you actually pay. I truly hope though someone reports you once Trump wins and you get picked up for hiring illegals. You need to be fined out of business. 

Not that it would take much.  

[Death 301]

Clownzo tells bogus story about poor woman returning apples to store refrigerator.

https://www.latintimes.com/trump-mocked-over-made-story-about-woman-putting-grocery-store-apple-refrigerator-trump-569027

[Hardcore troubadour 14,964]

16 minutes ago, Death said:

Clownzo tells bogus story about poor woman returning apples to store refrigerator.

https://www.latintimes.com/trump-mocked-over-made-story-about-woman-putting-grocery-store-apple-refrigerator-trump-569027

I have to say, Bidens tales were much better, and there were many more. 

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rfk-jrs-lawyer-top-ally-asked-fda-revoke/story?id=116769906

Make polio great again

[Death 301]

So we almost eliminated Polio with a sugar cube, and now RFK Jr. wants to eliminate that and open the door for polio.

What a great guy!

[seafoam1 2,805]

6 hours ago, Death said:

So we almost eliminated Polio with a sugar cube, and now JFK Jr. wants to eliminate that and open the door for polio.

What a great guy!

I love this for you boyo. 

You are so ruined. 

[jonmx 2,424]

6 hours ago, Death said:

So we almost eliminated Polio with a sugar cube, and now JFK Jr. wants to eliminate that and open the door for polio.

What a great guy!

JFK Jr is dead.  It was not RFK jr, it was a group he is not part of who used a lawyer that does work for RFK jr.   They are asking for testing be done which should have been done prior to approval but wasn't.

[TimHauck 2,630]

On 12/12/2024 at 10:52 PM, Death said:

Clownzo tells bogus story about poor woman returning apples to store refrigerator.

https://www.latintimes.com/trump-mocked-over-made-story-about-woman-putting-grocery-store-apple-refrigerator-trump-569027

Reminds me of this, Dr Oz didn’t even know the name of the store he was in (although the tweet is also wrong, it was probably Redners)

https://twitter.com/ReallyAmerican1/status/1559196759112441856
 

 

[Death 301]

4 hours ago, jonmx said:

JFK Jr is dead.  It was not RFK jr, it was a group he is not part of who used a lawyer that does work for RFK jr.   They are asking for testing be done which should have been done prior to approval but wasn't.

Typo. I corrected it.

Long ago, I engaged an anti-vaxxer in a discussion on social media. This woman - who worked as a nurse - was militant anti-vax.

So I asked her what she would do if a rabid raccoon savagely bit her daughter. She said she would not allow her daughter to get the rabies shot, never mind a 100 percent likelihood that the daughter would come down with rabies and die.

The woman said she'd make some poultice out of natural ingredients and put it on her daughter's bite, and that would keep her from getting rabies.

What a bunch of horsesh!t. 

Vaccines have all but eliminated small pox, tetanus, measles, polio, mumps and malaria, among other diseases.

I'm not going to just go out there and get all the shots they advertise on television, like the one for shingles. I got the two COVID shots and booster, and that was the end of the line with me. Last year, I had a COVID case so mild that I thought at first it was a mild cold, and it lasted less than a day. I credit the vaccine for it not being worse.

The COVID shot likely has saved millions of lives.

Now we might have this unqualified focking fruitcake making health calls for our country.

It's absurd.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,964]

Idiots think there won’t be any vaccines soon.  So easily terrified. 

[jonmx 2,424]

30 minutes ago, Death said:

Typo. I corrected it.

Long ago, I engaged an anti-vaxxer in a discussion on social media. This woman - who worked as a nurse - was militant anti-vax.

So I asked her what she would do if a rabid raccoon savagely bit her daughter. She said she would not allow her daughter to get the rabies shot, never mind a 100 percent likelihood that the daughter would come down with rabies and die.

The woman said she'd make some poultice out of natural ingredients and put it on her daughter's bite, and that would keep her from getting rabies.

What a bunch of horsesh!t. 

Vaccines have all but eliminated small pox, tetanus, measles, polio, mumps and malaria, among other diseases.

I'm not going to just go out there and get all the shots they advertise on television, like the one for shingles. I got the two COVID shots and booster, and that was the end of the line with me. Last year, I had a COVID case so mild that I thought at first it was a mild cold, and it lasted less than a day. I credit the vaccine for it not being worse.

The COVID shot likely has saved millions of lives.

Now we might have this unqualified focking fruitcake making health calls for our country.

It's absurd.

 

That is all well and good.   But that is the mindset of some crazy nurse.  RFK jr is not anti-vax.  RFK jr. believes we need to do research into the modern epidemic of childhood conditions such as autism and find it's root cause.   

[squistion 1,962]

4 minutes ago, jonmx said:

That is all well and good.   But that is the mindset of some crazy nurse.  RFK jr is not anti-vax.  RFK jr. believes we need to do research into the modern epidemic of childhood conditions such as autism and find it's root cause.   

Well, so he says, but...

https://apnews.com/article/robert-f-kennedy-vaccines-trump-rfkjr-7f8dcb25de76a5a70710d22bbc63f6fa

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has a long record of promoting anti-vaccine views

Kennedy has insisted that he is not anti-vaccine, saying he only wants vaccines to be rigorously tested, but he also has shown opposition to a wide range of immunizations. Kennedy said in a 2023 podcast interview that “There’s no vaccine that is safe and effective” and told Fox News that he still believes in the long-ago debunked idea that vaccines can cause autism. In a 2021 podcast he urged people to “resist” CDC guidelines on when kids should get vaccines.

“I see somebody on a hiking trail carrying a little baby and I say to him, better not get them vaccinated,” Kennedy said.

That same year, in a video promoting an anti-vaccine sticker campaign by his nonprofit, Kennedy appeared onscreen next to one sticker that declared “IF YOU’RE NOT AN ANTI-VAXXER YOU AREN’T PAYING ATTENTION.”

 

[The Real timschochet 6,468]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Idiots think there won’t be any vaccines soon.  So easily terrified. 

I’m actually with @Hardcore troubadour on this one. I don’t believe that there are going to be any real changes to anything. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,743]

1 hour ago, squistion said:

“IF YOU’RE NOT AN ANTI-VAXXER YOU AREN’T PAYING ATTENTION.”

The dat 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

5 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Idiots think there won’t be any vaccines soon.  So easily terrified. 

Moron doesn’t understand how vaccines work. So easily duped.

[Death 301]

5 hours ago, jonmx said:

That is all well and good.   But that is the mindset of some crazy nurse.  RFK jr is not anti-vax.  RFK jr. believes we need to do research into the modern epidemic of childhood conditions such as autism and find it's root cause.   

I have an autistic son and did all the research into the vaccines. Vaccines don't cause autism. My theory is that complications at childbirth caused it. The vaccine theory was debunked decades ago. 

 

[jbycho 610]

9 minutes ago, Death said:

I have an autistic son and did all the research into the vaccines. Vaccines don't cause autism. My theory is that complications at childbirth caused it. The vaccine theory was debunked decades ago. 

 

You are wrong. Completely wrong. 

Dang. If your kid is autistic you really need to seek help on where you should be getting your information from. Because everything you are saying is wrong. 

Good luck dude. Although it's too late for that. Time to focus on the now. And be smarter moving forward. 

[thegeneral 2,947]

RFK will likely be fired by a Tweet about 16 months in.

[jbycho 610]

Just now, thegeneral said:

RFK will likely be fired by a Tweet about 16 months in.

And you will still be oppressed heavily by Trump. DEMOCRACY!!!!  

 

[TimHauck 2,630]

6 hours ago, jonmx said:

  RFK jr is not anti-vax. 

Can you please name any vaccines he is in favor of?  TIA

[TimHauck 2,630]

43 minutes ago, jbycho said:

You are wrong. Completely wrong. 

Dang. If your kid is autistic you really need to seek help on where you should be getting your information from. Because everything you are saying is wrong. 

Good luck dude. Although it's too late for that. Time to focus on the now. And be smarter moving forward. 

Are you against all vaccines?

[The Phantom's Phantom 253]

17 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m actually with @Hardcore troubadour on this one. I don’t believe that there are going to be any real changes to anything. 

Whether you believe RFK is gonna get rid of vaccines or not, the damage he has done and will do is already evident.

Questioning vaccine safety is dangerous to the public.  We saw more people due from covid that needed to die to anti-vax movements.

We're seeing other disease like whooping cough and measles making huge runs recently due to parents not vaccinating their kids.  Let's not forget a few years ago RFK blamed the measles vaccine on the Samoa measles outbreak.

When you sow distrust you cause problems.

So even though smart responsible people like you and I might still have access to vaccines there are still idiots out there like tardcore that will refuse to vaccinate themselves and their kids and we as Americans should protect the idiots.

[Maximum Overkill 1,743]

1 hour ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

We saw more people due from covid that needed to die to anti-vax movements.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,964]

1 hour ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Whether you believe RFK is gonna get rid of vaccines or not, the damage he has done and will do is already evident.

Questioning vaccine safety is dangerous to the public.  We saw more people due from covid that needed to die to anti-vax movements.

We're seeing other disease like whooping cough and measles making huge runs recently due to parents not vaccinating their kids.  Let's not forget a few years ago RFK blamed the measles vaccine on the Samoa measles outbreak.

When you sow distrust you cause problems.

So even though smart responsible people like you and I might still have access to vaccines there are still idiots out there like tardcore that will refuse to vaccinate themselves and their kids and we as Americans should protect the idiots.

Yeah, people coming here from third world shittholes by the millions has nothing to do with the increase in diseases. Same diseases that just so happen to be higher in their countries of origin.  

[MDC 7,151]

21 hours ago, jonmx said:

That is all well and good.   But that is the mindset of some crazy nurse.  RFK jr is not anti-vax.  RFK jr. believes we need to do research into the modern epidemic of childhood conditions such as autism and find its root cause.   

Research has been done on this for decades. A former heroin addict with no medical credentials isn’t going to bring something new to the table. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,964]

If all RFK does is get rid of HFCS it will be great success.