Trump defies the courts, Sends migrants to El Sal Prison

[TimHauck 2,666]

12 hours ago, Strike said:

1) Al-Alwaki was an American citizen.  You can look through the threads about this is incident on this forum and you will see that I strongly denounced his death.  IIRC there wasn't even an indictment against him for any crime when he was killed.  How can you kill an American citizen without even an indictment?  That was murder.  Here we're simply talking about deportation.

2). Al-Alwaki had a 16 year old son, also bombed in to oblivion by Obama.  There wasn't even a suggestion that he was a terrorist.  Also an American citizen.  You gonna justify that one too?

3). Garcia got due process   He had a valid deportation order at the time he was deported.

We’re not “simply taking about deportation” though.” In addition to not following the Supreme Court, that’s my main other complaint about the Garcia issue.  He wasn’t just deported, he was imprisoned.  If they’re not going to send him back here (which at this point Garcia probably shouldn’t even want), El Salvador should either release him from prison or charge him with something. I know most people would say “why should we care?  He’s in El Salvador now, what they do with him is up to them.”   But we’re the ones that sent him to prison there!  We are involved.

Al-Awlaki’s son was killed in a different attack and allegedly he was not the target.  I agree it was wrong that he was killed.

[Horseman 2,433]

43 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

We’re not “simply taking about deportation” though.” In addition to not following the Supreme Court, that’s my main other complaint about the Garcia issue.  He wasn’t just deported, he was imprisoned.  If they’re not going to send him back here (which at this point Garcia probably shouldn’t even want), El Salvador should either release him from prison or charge him with something. I know most people would say “why should we care?  He’s in El Salvador now, what they do with him is up to them.”   But we’re the ones that sent him to prison there!  We are involved.

Al-Awlaki’s son was killed in a different attack and allegedly he was not the target.  I agree it was wrong that he was killed.

But we’re the ones that sent him to prison there!!!!!! We are involved!!!!!



[TimHauck 2,666]

4 minutes ago, Horseman said:

But we’re the ones that sent him to prison there!!!!!! We are involved!!!!!



It’s true.  Go look at some more gay porn 

[SaintsInDome2006 440]

I don’t understand the Awlaki argument, from a conservative POV. If an American joins a terrorist group & goes & fights overseas, he’s somehow off limits? Adam Gadahn was also killed by US air strike, same thing.

[SaintsInDome2006 440]

13 hours ago, Strike said:

Al-Alwaki was an American citizen.  You can look through the threads about this is incident on this forum and you will see that I strongly denounced his death.  IIRC there wasn't even an indictment against him for any crime when he was killed.  How can you kill an American citizen without even an indictment?  That was murder. 

Multiple Americans - & Europeans - were killed fighting for AQ/IS. You don’t get warrants fighting in a war zone (that’s in a war) for an enemy terror entity vs US forces & the US itself. 

[squistion 2,053]

12 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I don’t understand the Awlaki argument, from a conservative POV. If an American joins a terrorist group & goes & fights overseas, he’s somehow off limits? Adam Gadahn was also killed by US air strike, same thing.

I don't get that thinking either. 

[The Psychic Observer 498]

The administration admits it was a mistake to send Garcia to El Salvador, the courts ruled that he was deported illegally, ruled that he must be returned, and that the administration cannot use the alien enemies act to deport anyone else.

Yet someone how will try and use Garcia's character to justify breaking the law and defying the courts.

That's not American.

[TimHauck 2,666]

15 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I don’t understand the Awlaki argument, from a conservative POV. If an American joins a terrorist group & goes & fights overseas, he’s somehow off limits? Adam Gadahn was also killed by US air strike, same thing.

Well I’m sure @iam90sbaby agrees with him being killed at least 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,965]

29 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I don’t understand the Awlaki argument, from a conservative POV. If an American joins a terrorist group & goes & fights overseas, he’s somehow off limits? Adam Gadahn was also killed by US air strike, same thing.

Of course you don't because if you do "get it" then it would upend your crying and tears about "due process".  He's literally an American citizen.  American citizens are afforded due process by virtue of the fact of being American citizens, regardless of what they are doing.

If you're willing to take away that due process for American citizens so you can stick to your ideological position, then you have no ground to stand on when it comes to illegal gang member aliens. 

But here is the kicker:  He actually got his due process.  Multiple times.

[SaintsInDome2006 440]

1 minute ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Of course you don't because if you do "get it" then it would upend our crying about "due process".  He's literally an American citizen.  American citizens are afforded due process by being American citizens, regardless of what they are doing.

If you're willing to take away that due process for American citizens so you can stick to your ideological position, then you have no ground to stand on when it comes to illegal gang member aliens.

You do realize you’re making a pacifist argument, right? Under this ideology all war is murder. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,965]

Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

You don’t get warrants realize you’re making a pacifist argument, right? Under this ideology all war is murder. 

I have no idea what you're talking about here.  I'm talking about your claims of "due process".  You're trying to change the argument to something else.

I'm not necessarily opposed to what Obama did, but I'm not the one crying about "due process".  You're the hypocrite here.

[TimHauck 2,666]

5 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I have no idea what you're talking about here.  I'm talking about your claims of "due process".  You're trying to change the argument to something else.

I'm not necessarily opposed to what Obama did, but I'm not the one crying about "due process".  You're the hypocrite here.

Not sure about him, but I didn’t cry about due process.  HTH

[SaintsInDome2006 440]

5 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I'm not necessarily opposed to what Obama did,

Apologies, I’m not sure who raised it then. But it’s definitely off the mark.

[Strike 5,337]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

Al-Awlaki’s son was killed in a different attack and allegedly he was not the target.  I agree it was wrong that he was killed.

it's not relevant that it was a different attack, or that he wasn't the target.  That was 100 times worse than what happened to this illegal alien, human trafficking, wife beater.  As someone has pointed out repeatedly, the hills you libs choose to die on is baffling.

[SaintsInDome2006 440]

I’ll tell you this much, if a court had ordered Obama’s Pentagon to *not kill Alawki or Gedahn & the military did it anyway, followed by repeated cute lies about status, it would have (rightly) led to calls for impeachment & probably at least after 2012 let to it actually happening.

[Strike 5,337]

43 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I don’t understand the Awlaki argument, from a conservative POV. If an American joins a terrorist group & goes & fights overseas, he’s somehow off limits? Adam Gadahn was also killed by US air strike, same thing.

1)  Show proof he was in a terrorist group.  The U.S. has laws related to citizens who join terrorist groups.  We bust people all the time when they're about to board a flight to go fight with terrorists.  We have warrants and indictments to do so.  There was no indictment on Al-Alwaki, or warrant.  We literally blew up a U.S. citizen because we felt like it. 

2)  Then, a couple of weeks later, we blew up his 16 year old son who had no known links to terrorism.  Let's hear you justify that one. 

[SaintsInDome2006 440]

8 minutes ago, Strike said:

1)  Show proof he was in a terrorist group.  The U.S. has laws related to citizens who join terrorist groups.  We bust people all the time when they're about to board a flight to go fight with terrorists.  We have warrants and indictments to do so.  There was no indictment on Al-Alwaki, or warrant.  We literally blew up a U.S. citizen because we felt like it. 

2)  Then, a couple of weeks later, we blew up his 16 year old son who had no known links to terrorism.  Let's hear you justify that one. 

I understand you’re talking about due process for an American abroad, but you’re talking about an American abroad in a war zone. You’re adopting a far left pacifist position - fine - but it requires scanning every battlefield to ensure there are no Americans. And btw it’s also against US law to murder foreign nationals abroad without some indicication they’re involved in combat or terrorism. Really Awlaki’s nationality doesn’t matter. We can’t target to kill an Iraqi or Frenchman either. This argument is somewhere left of Chomsky.

The kid - & someone maybe ES raised this properly with the Yemen attacks - was collateral damage in a war zone. There are 10s of thousands of examples like that. It’s basically an argument against the war in Gaza, Yemen, Iraq, Vietnam, all of it. It’s certainly not the first time I heard it.

[TimHauck 2,666]

7 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I’ll tell you this much, if a court had ordered Obama’s Pentagon to *not kill Alawki or Gedahn & the military did it anyway, followed by repeated cute lies about status, it would have (rightly) led to calls for impeachment & probably at least after 2012 let to it actually happening.

Yup

[Strike 5,337]

4 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

 

The kid - & someone maybe ES raised this properly with the Yemen attacks - was collateral damage in a war zone. There are 10s of thousands of examples like that. It’s basically an argument against the war in Gaza, Yemen, Iraq, Vietnam, all of it. It’s certainly not the first time I heard it.

WTF are you talking about collateral damage in a war zone?  The kid was sitting in an open air cafe when he was blown up.  Your justification of such a killing tells me all I need to know about you. 

[SaintsInDome2006 440]

7 minutes ago, Strike said:

WTF are you talking about collateral damage in a war zone?  The kid was sitting in an open air cafe when he was blown up.  Your justification of such a killing tells me all I need to know about you. 

It was a strike aimed at an Egyptian operative for AQ. They weren’t targeting the kid, he was just nearby.

It would also be a crime under US & international law to kill the Egyptian without due process if you follow this extremely leftist line of thought:

[SaintsInDome2006 440]

The Hegseth branch of maga has argued for *loosening the rules of engagement based on the fact that all 4 administrations involved in Mideast wars spent an arguably absurd amount of time validating targets, even in active battles. Which means even less vigilance to ensure innocent Americans or foreigners of any stripe are harmed. If you think Awlaki & his son were improperly murdered then you should really oppose what Trump & Hegseth have done.

[TimHauck 2,666]

30 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I’ll tell you this much, if a court had ordered Obama’s Pentagon to *not kill Alawki or Gedahn & the military did it anyway, followed by repeated cute lies about status, it would have (rightly) led to calls for impeachment & probably at least after 2012 let to it actually happening.

Probably worth noting as well that the father/grandfather did file a lawsuit after the fact, and it was dismissed, and he did not appeal.

https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/assets/2014-04-04_Al-Aulaqiv.Panetta_OpinionDismissingCase.pdf

 

[SaintsInDome2006 440]

9 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Probably worth noting as well that the father/grandfather did file a lawsuit after the fact, and it was dismissed, and he did not appeal.

https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/assets/2014-04-04_Al-Aulaqiv.Panetta_OpinionDismissingCase.pdf

 

Thank you, interesting. The Awlaki son was killed in a drone strike in Yemen in 2014. An Egyptian terror leader was the target. So as a reminder we are still sending drones into Yemen, 11 years later, despite putting a former ‘no Forever Wars’ Dem in as DNI.

[The Psychic Observer 498]

11 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Thank you, interesting. The Awlaki son was killed in a drone strike in Yemen in 2014. An Egyptian terror leader was the target. So as a reminder we are still sending drones into Yemen, 11 years later, despite putting a former ‘no Forever Wars’ Dem in as DNI.

You brought up Gabbard, her stance on Awlaki...

A U.S. citizen abroad who is an operational terrorist leader is an “enemy combatant” and is therefore a legitimate target. I would be opposed to any effort to invoke the Insurrection Act to enforce immigration laws.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/us/politics/military-force-against-americans-executive-power.html

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

16 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

Illegals flooded in with no effort to interdict them and no vetting whatsoever.  Coming in there was no process because liberals wanted no process to slow the dreams of both themselves and the migrants.  Now, on the way out there has to be vetting, due process, and that is correct, it is our system, but the asymetrical nature of proces and effort required between entry and deportation show a breakdown in the system.  The system can be overwhelmed and it was intentionally so, and even evilly so by progressives.  There is one lesson from all of this.  We absolutely need to diligently, and even brutally and ruthlessly protect our border because once these illegals get here they take an inordinant amount of effort to get rid of.  They are like squatters or ex-wifes.  The next time a Tim tries to argue we shold let them in,  push back since the cost of momentary humanitarianism is a world of legal cost when they turn out to not be worthy of the human dignity they were presumptively afforded.  I am tired of shields being forged into swords.  I am tired of being abused for my tolerance. I am tired of non-citizns and non-contributors demanding more of me as if by right.

 

All that said, honor due process as that is a precious heritage, just remember the cost so the situation never arises again.  Oh, and hold the cost against those who enabled this situation.

No surprise I disagree strongly with the lesson you take from this. My own take is that we need to come up with a reasonable and humane way to address both refugee and immigration issues. Reasonable and humane excludes some of the words you used like “brutal” and “ruthless”. 
 

[Engorgeous George 2,236]

We need motion sensors on the border.  When motion is detected the first response is to play the Smiley Lewis classic, I Hear you knocking.  If the person gets closer they ought to be gassed with skunk spray and the same colored dye they use in loaded stacks of money at the bank, something that will mark them for a week or more and will sicken them and those they encounter.  Drones capable of firing bean bag rounds should be launched and Brute squads dispatched  If they keep approaching they should be shot from the drones.  The Brute squad would then turn on the electric fence and arm their tasers.  If they touch the fence the Brute Squad should taze them and then reach through the fence with their clubs and pummel the prostrate forms.  We should then dispatch drone robots incorporated into the fence to drag the bodies back away from the range of the motion sensors on the fence.  The only exception should be for females 18 to 23 who are size fours or less.  Members of the Brute squad would be empowered to pass them through the fence at their sole discretion.  They would then be processed at State sponsored Gentlemen's clubs around the country for potential continued presence based on their attractiveness.

[Engorgeous George 2,236]

At the Canadian border we simply need signs directing them to processing points where Tim Horton's will be catering all the poutine they care to eat and Molson's will be three for one.  They will willingly congragate at the processing center, get drunk, pass out, and then can be loaded onto flatbeds and driven 50 miles from the border where they will be released into the wild after getting an ear tag.  If they try a second time they will be treated like we do nuisance bears and will be put down, humanely. 

[The Psychic Observer 498]

6 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

At the Canadian border we simply need signs directing them to processing points where Tony Horton's will be catering all the poutine they care to eat and Molson's will be three for one.  They will willingly congragate at the processing center, get drunk, pass out, and then can be loaded onto flatbeds and driven 50 miles from the border where they will be released into the wild after getting an ear tag.  If they try a second time they will be treated like we do nuisance bears and will be put down, humanely. 

Is Tony Tim's brother?

[Engorgeous George 2,236]

1 minute ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Is Tony Tim's brother?

Son.

[jerryskids 6,657]

3 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I’ll tell you this much, if a court had ordered Obama’s Pentagon to *not kill Alawki or Gedahn & the military did it anyway, followed by repeated cute lies about status, it would have (rightly) led to calls for impeachment & probably at least after 2012 let to it actually happening.

 

2 hours ago, TimHauck said:

Yup

Please, nobody was ever going to impeach Saint Barack the Most Awesomeful.  To even think of an objection to any of his actions was deemed instant racism!

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,965]

3 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Apologies, I’m not sure who raised it then. But it’s definitely off the mark.

Again I don't know what you're talking about. Who raised what? What's off the mark? Are you high?

[SaintsInDome2006 440]

29 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Again I don't know what you're talking about. Who raised what? What's off the mark? Are you high?

I made a standalone post responding to comments further up about Awlaki, you responded to me, I responded to you. I'm guessing you and I agree on it. You also commented on the Yemeni strikes and I agreed on that too when it comes to collateral damage. We appear to be on the same page. Cheers.

[The Psychic Observer 498]

https://x.com/TheTNHoller/status/1913949016892621221?t=yO2mNEtQd5i9BvFsUlwPXw&s=19

Even Joe Rogan gets it.

[seafoam1 2,867]

2 hours ago, The Psychic Observer said:

https://x.com/TheTNHoller/status/1913949016892621221?t=yO2mNEtQd5i9BvFsUlwPXw&s=19

Even Joe Rogan gets it.

Who's Joe Rogan?

Is this one of your x follows? 

[lickin_starfish 1,909]

https://media.scored.co/scale/CdZwhhn4PtrIksWA.png

[Mike Honcho 5,230]

Trump thinks that the MS-13 that edited on the photo to interpret the tattoos were actual tattoos.  

 

[TimHauck 2,666]

14 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Trump thinks that the MS-13 that edited on the photo to interpret the tattoos were actual tattoos.  

 

Not only that, there are numerous conservative x accounts with significant followings that have clipped that and congratulated Trump for “calling out ABC’s lies.”  But where’s the lie?

 

Trump: he had MS-13 on his knuckles

reporter:  he had some tattoos that are interpreted that way…He did not have the letters “M-S-1-3”

Trump: it says M-S-1-3

reporter: that was photoshopped 

…some back and forth rambling…

reporter: he did have tattoos that can be interpreted that way, I’m not an expert on them. 

Trump: no no, he had M-S, as clear as you can be, not interpreted

[TimHauck 2,666]

19 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Trump thinks that the MS-13 that edited on the photo to interpret the tattoos were actual tattoos.  

 

lol: https://x.com/IfindRetards/status/1914099738749919700

 

 

 

[shadrap 226]

20 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Not only that, there are numerous conservative x accounts with significant followings that have clipped that and congratulated Trump for “calling out ABC’s lies.”  But where’s the lie?

 

Trump: he had MS-13 on his knuckles

reporter:  he had some tattoos that are interpreted that way…He did not have the letters “M-S-1-3”

Trump: it says M-S-1-3

reporter: that was photoshopped 

…some back and forth rambling…

reporter: he did have tattoos that can be interpreted that way, I’m not an expert on them. 

Trump: no no, he had M-S, as clear as you can be, not interpreted

well then Trump was wrong, but an official law official does say the knuckle tats are MS-13 interpreted.  As the "M" is displayed by a marijuana leaf.

correct?

[TimHauck 2,666]

1 minute ago, shadrap said:

well then Trump was wrong, but an official law official does say the knuckle tats are MS-13 interpreted.  As the "M" is displayed by a marijuana leaf.

correct?

The ABC guy literally said “he had tattoos that can be interpreted that way.”  

It’s possible, and I am by no means a gang expert, but I’ve searched, and I have not seen any photos of someone else with a similar tattoo.  And many photos of MS 13 members with the actual letters/numbers tattooed.