Federal Judge blocks Trump military ban on transgenders

[HB Localboy 121]

18 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Thanks Voltaire. I think you’re a good guy too. I just wish you didn’t think liberals are evil and out to destroy your way of life. It’s not true. 

You are a polar opposite of what we want!

If you want LEFT and we want RIGHT we can't exist together!

You are the enemy! 

We can't exist together!

One of us is going to have to be removed.

I am in favor of removing YOU! 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,239]

3 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

There's the tranny in women's spaces stuff, the drag queen with kids stuff, defund the police, sympathy for terrorists and illegal alien sex traffickers and drug smugglers, the flag kneeling, the Antifa riots, the race baiting, unsecure borders, the no ID voting, the Howard Zinn / 1619 rewriting of US history to focus on the bad and worst aspects of US history.

This isn't an argument about tax and spend policy or energy vs climate change policy anymore.

I don't rightly know how anybody with any sense of decency is a Democrat and I don't want to live in a community that is governed by them.

Flawless victory

[Maximum Overkill 1,740]

 

[5-Points 3,393]

7 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

https://nypost.com/2025/03/18/us-news/fed-judge-blocks-trump-admin-from-banning-trans-people-from-military-service/
 

Look I started a tranny thread! 
 

The judge says that transgender adults have a constitutional right to be in the military. I agree. But if you don’t, please make a case as to why it’s OK to ban transgender adults from serving. 

Because we shouldn't be giving weapons to mentally unstable people. 

[Ron_Artest 1,068]

5 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

Because we shouldn't be giving weapons to mentally unstable people. 

Then trump should be impeached.

[Maximum Overkill 1,740]

Just now, Ron_Artest said:

Then trump should be impeached.

TDS MUCH? 

[Tree of Knowledge 1,705]

6 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

You guys haven’t offered any defense of Trump’s actions. All the responses have been ignorance or bigotry or personal insults or anti-Semitism. Guess I shouldn’t have expected any different. 

Big Win for you people Tim. 
 

The purpose was for people to not join the military to get their transition surgeries and whatnot paid by the military

I have heard the military plans on turning this lemon into lemonade.  I have heard trannies are the best at land mine detection, so if the ruling stands they/them will be used in that capacity.  

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,839]

9 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

He’s correct? So people with asthma can’t serve? High blood pressure or cholesterol? How about diabetics? 

That is correct.  You wouldn't even get in the door at MEPS.

[Sean Mooney 1,938]

9 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

As to your first point I don’t believe you. I’m betting there are plenty of military people who take daily medication for all sorts of things. 

You shouldn't believe him as- per usual- he is kind of wrong.

You can be on daily medication but it depends what the underlying issue is and there are medical waivers that can be granted. People on HRT can be deployed and serve as well but perhaps not in battle. 

Basically the issue is a little more complex than either this or that

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,839]

9 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

You shouldn't believe him as- per usual- he is kind of wrong.

You can be on daily medication but it depends what the underlying issue is and there are medical waivers that can be granted. People on HRT can be deployed and serve as well but perhaps not in battle. 

Basically the issue is a little more complex than either this or that

You are correct that you CAN get medical waivers, but you have to apply for them and it's no guarantee.  Also, you CAN be on daily medication but that's only if you either got the waiver OR got the condition while you were in the service (not before).  And even if you're in the service you can still be medically discharged.

You're right that it is complex, but I can guarantee you these serious conditions will not get you in the door or will get you discharged.  You can't have a mentally unstable person serving in a unit as other people's lives depend upon it.

Also, try walking into a recruiter's office or MEPS building with diabetes and see if they'll take you.  They won't.

[Sean Mooney 1,938]

22 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

You are correct that you CAN get medical waivers, but you have to apply for them and it's no guarantee.  Also, you CAN be on daily medication but that's only if you either got the waiver OR got the condition while you were in the service (not before).  And even if you're in the service you can still be medically discharged.

You're right that it is complex, but I can guarantee you these serious conditions will not get you in the door or will get you discharged.  You can't have a mentally unstable person serving in a unit as other people's lives depend upon it.

Also, try walking into a recruiter's office or MEPS building with diabetes and see if they'll take you.  They won't.

Most likely they won't  I agree.

Largely though I'm glad you see it the same way I do in that it's a little bit more than this a "this/that" type of issue. 

[The Real timschochet 6,433]

OK I thought that certain types of diabetics could get in but I’ll take your word for it. In any event I don’t see how any of this applies to transgender people. 

[jerryskids 6,570]

11 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

He’s correct? So people with asthma can’t serve? High blood pressure or cholesterol? How about diabetics? 

No, type 1 diabetics (like my daughter) cannot join the military.  

To your initial question in the OP of making an argument, I'll let your own link argue for me:

Quote

In 2016, a Defense Department policy permitted transgender people to serve openly in the military. During Trump’s first term in the White House, the Republican issued a directive to ban transgender service members. The Supreme Court allowed the ban to take effect. President Joe Biden, a Democrat, scrapped it when he took office.

This podunk low-level activist judge is directly contradicting recent SCOTUS precedent.  She should be impeached and disbarred.

Further:

Quote

In response to the order, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth issued a policy that presumptively disqualifies people with gender dysphoria from military service. Gender dysphoria is the distress that a person feels because their assigned gender and gender identity don’t match. The medical condition has been linked to depression and suicidal thoughts.

Gender dysphoria is a mental health condition as per DSM-5, which in and of itself is sufficient to disallow joining.  But in addition, it would likely lead to the person pursuing trans surgery, on the taxpayer's dime of course, in addition to all of the (expensive) daily medication which further precludes deployment.

 

Your rebuttal on my argument?   

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,239]

90% facts

90% logic 

[easilyscan 863]

This is wonderful news. I definitely want more people like this in the military.

 

[The Real timschochet 6,433]

4 hours ago, jerryskids said:

No, type 1 diabetics (like my daughter) cannot join the military.  

To your initial question in the OP of making an argument, I'll let your own link argue for me:

This podunk low-level activist judge is directly contradicting recent SCOTUS precedent.  She should be impeached and disbarred.

Further:

Gender dysphoria is a mental health condition as per DSM-5, which in and of itself is sufficient to disallow joining.  But in addition, it would likely lead to the person pursuing trans surgery, on the taxpayer's dime of course, in addition to all of the (expensive) daily medication which further precludes deployment.

 

Your rebuttal on my argument?   

My rebuttal is pretty simple: transgender persons don’t suffer from gender dysphoria. If they had it they’ve been cured of it by undergoing a sex change. Now they’re who they were supposed to be. Therefore mental illness is not a sufficient reason to restrict a transgender person from joining the military. 

(Now I would agree that it is not the proper role of the military to pay for someone’s surgery. Therefore I have no problem excluding a person with gender dysphoria or who hasn’t yet had the surgery. But if they’ve already had the surgery, then it seems to me it’s wrong to exclude them. Thus I believe this judge is correct and you are wrong.) 

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

17 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

He’s correct? So people with asthma can’t serve? High blood pressure or cholesterol? How about diabetics? 

For asthma, they are VERY strict.  Very few people qualify.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/can-i-enlist-in-the-military-with-asthma#branch-requirements

 

As for diabetics, the answer is NO.  They can not join.  Not sure about the other two.

[jerryskids 6,570]

26 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

My rebuttal is pretty simple: transgender persons don’t suffer from gender dysphoria. If they had it they’ve been cured of it by undergoing a sex change. Now they’re who they were supposed to be. Therefore mental illness is not a sufficient reason to restrict a transgender person from joining the military. 

(Now I would agree that it is not the proper role of the military to pay for someone’s surgery. Therefore I have no problem excluding a person with gender dysphoria or who hasn’t yet had the surgery. But if they’ve already had the surgery, then it seems to me it’s wrong to exclude them. Thus I believe this judge is correct and you are wrong.) 

I'm impressed that you could respond in a way which so missed my points.

1. As per your article, the restriction is for people with gender dysphoria.  

2. Trans surgeries and hormones may or may not address the issue of gender dysphoria.

Quote

Transition surgeries, while highly beneficial for many, don't always completely eliminate gender dysphoria, but they can significantly improve well-being and reduce distress. 

3. People who have physically transitioned require daily meds which is a significant part of why they cannot join the military, much like a type 1 diabetic requires constant insulin.

4. SCOTUS has already ruled on this.

[The Real timschochet 6,433]

23 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I'm impressed that you could respond in a way which so missed my points.

1. As per your article, the restriction is for people with gender dysphoria.  

2. Trans surgeries and hormones may or may not address the issue of gender dysphoria.

3. People who have physically transitioned require daily meds which is a significant part of why they cannot join the military, much like a type 1 diabetic requires constant insulin.

4. SCOTUS has already ruled on this.

Your first point is incorrect. Though Hegseth made that distinction, Trump’s executive order did not. 
Your second point is incorrect. Those who  have had transgender surgery do not have gender dysphoria. 
3. Your third point has not, to the best of my knowledge, been addressed by the courts. Personally I don’t understand why this is or should be a limiting factor. 
4. I don’t believe the SC addressed this specific issue. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,839]

20 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Your first point is incorrect. Though Hegseth made that distinction, Trump’s executive order did not. 
Your second point is incorrect. Those who  have had transgender surgery do not have gender dysphoria. 
3. Your third point has not, to the best of my knowledge, been addressed by the courts. Personally I don’t understand why this is or should be a limiting factor. 
4. I don’t believe the SC addressed this specific issue. 

YOu don't understand how someone on medication cannot be allowed in?  Really?  You're in the middle of nowhere and you're buddies are depending on you to take that bunker but you're in the middle of going into a coma because you haven't had your insulin.  Where you going to get the insulin in the middle of nowhere?  These units spend months out in the field.  How do you think the military operates?  From the comfort of a desk in the big city?

So now not only do your buddies who depend on you for there life have to take the bunker w/out you, but also they now have to leave a person or two behind to take of your dumb @ss because Tim insisted that people with disabilities be allowed in the service.  Also, that's 1 or two more that aren't helping taking out the bunker because they're too busy trying to save your @ss.

Make sense now?  I mean, seriously, Tim.  You have to think about this logically instead of with your emotions.  

[jerryskids 6,570]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Your first point is incorrect. Though Hegseth made that distinction, Trump’s executive order did not. 
Your second point is incorrect. Those who  have had transgender surgery do not have gender dysphoria. 
3. Your third point has not, to the best of my knowledge, been addressed by the courts. Personally I don’t understand why this is or should be a limiting factor. 
4. I don’t believe the SC addressed this specific issue. 

For my first point, from the text of the EO:

Quote

Sec. 2.  Policy.  It is the policy of the United States Government to establish high standards for troop readiness, lethality, cohesion, honesty, humility, uniformity, and integrity.  This policy is inconsistent with the medical, surgical, and mental health constraints on individuals with gender dysphoria. 

My second point is absolutely correct.  I provided the AI summary, pick your source if you don't like it:

https://www.google.com/search?q=do+transition+surgeries+always+cure+gender+dysphoria%3F&oq=do+transition+surgeries+always+cure+gender+dysphoria%3F&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRigATIHCAUQIRirAjIHCAYQIRifBTIHCAcQIRifBTIHCAgQIRifBTIHCAkQIRiPAtIBCTExODA1ajBqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

My third point has no need to be specifically addressed by the courts.  It is scientific fact that those who physically transitioned require regular medications, which prohibits them from being deployed, much like an insulin-dependent diabetic.  And my second point further risks admitting someone with a mental health issue.  The military has been granted latitude in this area, as also described in the EO:

Quote

Longstanding Department of Defense (DoD) policy (DoD Instruction (DoDI) 6130.03) provides that it is the policy of the DoD to ensure that service members are “[f]ree of medical conditions or physical defects that may reasonably be expected to require excessive time lost from duty for necessary treatment or hospitalization.”  As a result, many mental and physical health conditions are incompatible with active duty, from conditions that require substantial medication or medical treatment to bipolar and related disorders, eating disorders, suicidality, and prior psychiatric hospitalization.

Fourth point:  Technically you are correct.  In 2019 SCOTUS overturned an earlier stoppage from a lower court on Trump's ban, ruling instead that the ban could stay in place while the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled on it.  Here was that subsequent ruling:

Quote

Transgender persons who require or have undergone gender transition are disqualified from military service. * Transgender persons without a history or diagnosis of gender dysphoria, who are otherwise qualified for service, may serve, like all other Service members, in their biological sex.

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2019/06/14/18-35347.pdf

[TheNewGirl 1,348]

17 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

He’s correct? So people with asthma can’t serve? High blood pressure or cholesterol? How about diabetics? 

Dude. Seriously? 

NO. Diabetics usually aren't allowed. If you were diagnosed with Asthma after a certain age (usually young teens) you cannot serve. if you have high blood pressure you have to show that it's well controlled if you want to serve. 

Cannot believe you actually asked these questions. 

[TheNewGirl 1,348]

6 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

OK I thought that certain types of diabetics could get in. 

What types are those? 

[jerryskids 6,570]

8 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

What types are those? 

Looks like some Type 2s can serve if they can show consistent A1C control without meds.  Type 1s obviously can't do that:

Quote

Generally, individuals with a history of diabetes, including type 2, are not eligible for military service due to the Department of Defense's policy that restricts enlistment for those with diabetes. 

 

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• Disqualifying Condition:

  The U.S. military considers diabetes to be a disqualifying health condition. 

   
• DoD Policy:

  The Department of Defense (DoD) has a policy that restricts persons with diabetes from enlisting in the military. 

   
• Type 1 and 2 Diabetes:

  The ban applies to both type 1 and type 2 diabetes. 

   
• Medically Non-Deployable:

  If a person with diabetes is diagnosed during active duty, they may be deemed medically non-deployable and may be subject to medical board evaluation for potential discharge or retirement. 

   
• Exceptions:

  There are some exceptions to this rule, such as individuals who can maintain a hemoglobin A1C at less than 7% using only lifestyle modifications (diet, exercise). 

   
• Civilian Positions:

  Individuals with diabetes may be eligible for civilian positions within the DoD. 

Although not clear from the above, my guess is that those exceptions are for people diagnosed while on active duty.  

[TheNewGirl 1,348]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

Looks like some Type 2s can serve if they can show consistent A1C control without meds.  Type 1s obviously can't do that:

Although not clear from the above, my guess is that those exceptions are for people diagnosed while on active duty.  

If you can control it without medications, that makes sense. However, the constant need to check blood sugar, make sure you always have a snack on hand, etc. And I agree that if you diagnosed prior to enlisting, might be more difficult. 

When Tim said, "Certain types" I thought he'd invented some new Type 3 diabetes, or at least knows someone who has it. 

The military wants young healthy people to enlist. Not people who have to be monitored (self or otherwise) for various medical aliments that could get their brothers killed in action. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,839]

What's next/  Should we let stage 4 cancer patients in?  AIDS?  Why even have any restrictions?  It's not as if people lives' depend upon physically fit and healthy people after all, right? 

As long as we can virtue signal that's what's most important!!

[TheNewGirl 1,348]

1 minute ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

What's next/  Should we let stage 4 cancer patients in?  AIDS?  Why even have any restrictions?  It's not as if people lives' depend upon physically fit and healthy people after, right? 

Well, apparently they do let certain people with HIV in. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,839]

Just now, TheNewGirl said:

Well, apparently they do let certain people with HIV in. 

JFC. 

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

Why would you want transgender people in our military?  Why would you want any unhealthy people in our military?

[Maximum Overkill 1,740]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Why would you want transgender people in our military?  Why would you want any unhealthy people in our military?

I wouldn't want a Tranny or any other Mentally ill person in my unit for that matter. I've seen the strongest people crack in a fire fight, who knows what a mentally ill crossdresser would do?

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,839]

2 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

I wouldn't want a Tranny or any other Mentally ill person in my unit for that matter. I've seen the strongest people crack in a fire fight, who knows what a mentally ill crossdresser would do?

Right?  These are the same weirdoes who lose their sh#t and destroy and assault others when you misgender them.  Do we really want unstable people like that in the military?

[The Real timschochet 6,433]

I want them in the military because they want to be in the military. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,839]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I want them in the military because they want to be in the military. 

So virtues it is!!!

Can you trade those virtues in for prizes at the end of the month or year?  What prizes do they offer "The Most Virtuous for the Month of March"?

I'm glad you're willing to sacrifice the lives of others while you sit in your living room being a keyboard warrior.  Hopefully someday your life will be dependent upon a mentally ill person.  Of course, we probably will never hear from you again on how that went, but at least you'll have had your chance.

This is why people like you are a threat to Democracy and other people.

[5-Points 3,393]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I want them in the military because they want to be in the military. 

Wanting to be something and deserving to be something are two different things. 

A 250lb he/she can't be a member of the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. The standards for being a Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader shouldn't be more stringent than the standards for joining the military. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,740]

1 hour ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Right?  These are the same weirdoes who lose their sh#t and destroy and assault others when you misgender them.  Do we really want unstable people like that in the military?

 

[TheNewGirl 1,348]

Are there really that many transgender individuals who want to be in the military? 

 

 

 

[5-Points 3,393]

10 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

Are there really that many transgender individuals who want to be in the military? 

 

 

 

Not anymore. They can't get free sex change surgeries anymore. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,740]

19 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

OK I thought that certain types of diabetics could get in but I’ll take your word for it. In any event I don’t see how any of this applies to transgender people. 

Depression will get you discharged as will any mental illness, aka Crossdressers. 

Thank you Pete Hegseth! 

[avoiding injuries 1,511]

11 hours ago, 5-Points said:

Not anymore. They can't get free sex change surgeries anymore. 

Not sure if this was sarcasm, but it’s absolutely correct. That was the biggest (only) draw for them to join the military and mooch. 

[Ron_Artest 1,068]

So many alphas too scared to join the military want to tell the transgenders that they're not fit to join