This reminds me of why we didn’t get universal healthcare

[peenie 1,969]

I don’t remember the facts but I specifically voted for Obama because he was for universal healthcare. I thought the Democrats supported him and that was why he was their candidate. I was shocked to find out, at the last minute, that some Democrats were against universal healthcare. I asked ChatGPT to explain why we don’t have universal healthcare today: 

When Barack Obama took office in January 2009, he did campaign on expanding access to health care, often using the term “universal coverage.” However, the Affordable Care Act (ACA) — which became law in 2010 — fell short of true universal healthcare (i.e., a single-payer or government-run system that covers everyone).

Here’s why:

1. Political Constraints in Congress

• Democratic divisions: Even though Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress in 2009–2010, there were deep disagreements within the party. Some favored a single-payer system (like Medicare for All), while others — especially moderates and those from swing states — opposed it as too radical or expensive.

• Republican opposition: Republicans were uniformly against any large expansion of federal involvement in healthcare. Since the Senate effectively required 60 votes to overcome a filibuster, Obama needed every Democratic vote he could get, forcing compromises.

2. Industry Resistance

• Major stakeholders — insurance companies, pharmaceutical firms, and hospitals — lobbied heavily against proposals that would eliminate private insurance or impose tighter price controls.

• The Obama administration chose to work with these groups to avoid total opposition. In exchange, the ACA kept the private insurance system intact while adding regulations and subsidies.

3. Public Opinion and Messaging

• In 2009–2010, polls showed that Americans wanted healthcare reform but were divided on single-payer.

• Many were concerned about losing employer-based coverage or facing higher taxes. Opponents effectively labeled broader proposals as “socialized medicine,” which hurt support for a more sweeping reform.

4. Economic and Political Context

• The country was in the midst of the Great Recession, so the administration’s main priority was stabilizing the economy. Obama and his advisers believed they could only realistically pass incremental reform given the circumstances.

5. The Result: The Affordable Care Act

• The ACA expanded coverage dramatically — through Medicaid expansion, insurance marketplaces, and subsidies — but it preserved the private insurance system.

• As a result, by 2016, the uninsured rate hit a historic low (~9%), but millions remained uninsured.

In short:

Obama didn’t abandon the goal of expanding healthcare — but political realities, industry resistance, and the need for compromise led to the ACA instead of a fully universal, single-payer system.

[peenie 1,969]

You see there??? DEMOCRATIC MF DIVISIONS!!! 

Democrats suck ass. 

[lickin_starfish 2,007]

I didn't vote for Obama because he said he wanted to make energy prices skyrocket. That's the first time I didn't vote for a Democrat, and they've gotten ultra looney since then. 

Now it's hard to even vote for Republicans, since my eyes have been opened to the corrupt coalition between the two sides.

[Strike 6,023]

I don't remember all the specifics but I don't think Universal Health Care was ever on the table.  However, you should know better than to trust an AI to tell you the "facts."  AI's are notorious for making sh*t up.

[peenie 1,969]

4 minutes ago, lickin_starfish said:

I didn't vote for Obama because he said he wanted to make energy prices skyrocket. That's the first time I didn't vote for a Democrat, and they've gotten ultra looney since then. 

Now it's hard to even vote for Republicans, since my eyes have been opened to the corrupt coalition between the two sides.

Did energy prices skyrocket under Obama? I recall gasoline prices fell during his time in office. In fact, I recall paying $4/gal during Bush Jr., but reduced with Obama. 

[BunnysBastatrds 2,606]

5 minutes ago, lickin_starfish said:

I didn't vote for Obama because he said he wanted to make energy prices skyrocket. That's the first time I didn't vote for a Democrat, and they've gotten ultra looney since then. 

Now it's hard to even vote for Republicans, since my eyes have been opened to the corrupt coalition between the two sides.

 I didn’t vote for him when said “You didn’t build that” talking about people who start businesses.

[peenie 1,969]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

I don't remember all the specifics but I don't think Universal Health Care was ever on the table.  However, you should know better than to trust an AI to tell you the "facts."  AI's are notorious for making sh*t up.

Well my memory might be flawed, but I accept the answer that there were just many different opposing issues and he tried to come to an agreement. That’s fair. 

[lickin_starfish 2,007]

1 minute ago, peenie said:

Did energy prices skyrocket under Obama? I recall gasoline prices fell during his time in office. In fact, I recall paying $4/gal during Bush Jr., but reduced with Obama. 

Did he say that he wanted to make energy prices skyrocket? That's why I didn't vote for him. If it weren't for his statement, I probably would have voted for him.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,606]

 The only reason ACA passed was because Chief Justice John Roberts was a coward 

[peenie 1,969]

28 minutes ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

 I didn’t vote for him when said “You didn’t build that” talking about people who start businesses.

But he’s right and it explains why immigrants come here and make their fortune but couldn’t do so in their own country. It takes a lot of moving organized parts that are not corrupt to build a functional business, not just a great idea. 
 

It’s funny how you all knit pick every syllable Obama made but you completely ignore all the lies Trump tells. Where is the lie in his statement? 
It’s like saying a great QB wins games. It’s the team of players not just the QB. I love Tommy and he’s the greatest, no doubt, he’s been a winner wherever he’s been, but he didn’t get all those rings all by himself.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,606]

28 minutes ago, peenie said:

But he’s right and it explains why immigrants come here and make their fortune but couldn’t do so in their own country. It takes a lot of moving organized parts that are not corrupt to build a functional business, not just a great idea. 
 

It’s funny how you all knit pick every syllable Obama made but you completely ignore all the lies Trump tells. Where is the lie in his statement? 
It’s like saying a great QB wins games. It’s the team of players not just the QB. I love Tommy and he’s the greatest, no doubt, he’s been a winner wherever he’s been, but he didn’t get all those rings all by himself.

 So with that illogical statement, my father and I didn’t build our company? Working our asses off and sacrificing much to make it build and become a smal successful corporation to make money and also help others? And great ideas in this beautiful country of ours was born and built with the idea of building, which is what got us all here today. 
 

 And this conversation isn’t about Trump or what he says. It’s about black baby Jesus. Stop deflecting and think about the topic at hand. The ACA is a completely total disaster that was built on lies. I wasn’t able to keep my healthcare or doctor. And my family was and is pay double what it was previously. Why? To pay for others under his plan. On the back of hard working Americans that actually did build something.

[The Real timschochet 7,474]

Obama didn’t give us universal healthcare but by passing ACA he made it almost inevitable. The most important aspect, by far, of ACA is that people with pre-existing conditions cannot be rejected by insurance companies and get to pay the exact same premiums as everyone else. Once this was done, there was no way to keep health care affordable without pouring loads of government money into it, which we’re doing now. Eventually we will end up with single payer as a result. 

[peenie 1,969]

9 hours ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

 So with that illogical statement, my father and I didn’t build our company? Working our asses off and sacrificing much to make it build and become a smal successful corporation to make money and also help others? And great ideas in this beautiful country of ours was born and built with the idea of building, which is what got us all here today. 
 

 And this conversation isn’t about Trump or what he says. It’s about black baby Jesus. Stop deflecting and think about the topic at hand. The ACA is a completely total disaster that was built on lies. I wasn’t able to keep my healthcare or doctor. And my family was and is pay double what it was previously. Why? To pay for others under his plan. On the back of hard working Americans that actually did build something.

So only you and your dad worked at your company? You didn’t need a loan or investors or a building or materials or products or employees or electricity or clean water or streets for cars to drive on or trucks or trains to deliver or tracks laid down for trains to travel? Yes, you worked hard and deserve the credit but he was just saying this is a great country because so many people work hard, hand in hand so that it makes it so people can be successful. 
There are countries in Africa where brilliant people live but how can they implement their ideas in a state where the electricity turns off weekly or where the streets flood when it rains due to poor sewer systems. In India, a woman is unable to start a business because in her village she shouldn’t be outside after dark. Or worse, she can’t get an education because she’s a woman. Obama was simply explaining how businesses thrive due to all the people and parts working together. 

Obama was a huge disappointment to me, certainly not black baby Jesus. 

I’m atheist. 
 

No offense Volty, but I doubt this would happen in America today:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQ7GL7iDz3y/?igsh=N28ya29nZDRxZXZz
 

[weepaws 3,354]

I find universal health care to be a very scary institution, it seems like it would be more government, like socialism.  

[peenie 1,969]

7 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I find universal health care to be a very scary institution, it seems like it would be more government, like socialism.  

Do you think joining the military is like socialism? 

The military provides extensive and universal benefits, such as 100% health coverage, subsidized housing, and free education and training.

[seafoam1 3,432]

2 minutes ago, peenie said:

Do you think joining the military is like socialism? 

The military provides extensive and universal benefits, such as 100% health coverage, subsidized housing, and free education and training.

Until the dopes you vote for decide to close down government and refuse to pay their salaries.  

And by the way, that's the military, not the rest of the country. For you to confuse this is insanity. 

[weepaws 3,354]

6 minutes ago, peenie said:

Do you think joining the military is like socialism? 

The military provides extensive and universal benefits, such as 100% health coverage, subsidized housing, and free education and training.

No, that’s the military.  Let’s get make that mistake again Capiche? 

[peenie 1,969]

26 minutes ago, weepaws said:

No, that’s the military.  Let’s get make that mistake again Capiche? 

But you can comprehend the government paying soldier’s healthcare, just change soldiers to citizens. 

[weepaws 3,354]

58 minutes ago, peenie said:

But you can comprehend the government paying soldier’s healthcare, just change soldiers to citizens. 

When did compensation with health care for military personnel turn into socialism? I don’t think it ever has. 

I said when I think about universal health care I see more government,  find more government scary, I think of socialism, since we haven’t seen universal health care for non military personnel, we don’t know the outcome correct? So in your opinion, ne isn’t allowed to have ones own opinion to a question you asked, like all, not most, but all lost souls, you want to ask a question, with only answer that equals your own view, so you really don’t want opinions, you want dominance, I call that, liberal bull.  Thanks indeed Amen 

[Hawkeye21 2,456]

12 hours ago, peenie said:

But you can comprehend the government paying soldier’s healthcare, just change soldiers to citizens. 

Soldiers are basically employees of the government.  The government should be paying their healthcare and taking care of them.  Citizens are completely different.

[seafoam1 3,432]

12 hours ago, peenie said:

But you can comprehend the government paying soldier’s healthcare, just change soldiers to citizens. 

 

[peenie 1,969]

47 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Soldiers are basically employees of the government.  The government should be paying their healthcare and taking care of them.  Citizens are completely different.

But children aren’t employees of the government and yet the government pays for their education for free. 
If it’s possible in every other western country for citizens to get universal healthcare, why not here?????!!!!!! We need it! It’s too darn expensive. 

[Hawkeye21 2,456]

9 minutes ago, peenie said:

But children aren’t employees of the government and yet the government pays for their education for free. 
If it’s possible in every other western country for citizens to get universal healthcare, why not here?????!!!!!! We need it! It’s too darn expensive. 

Have you looked at the quality of healthcare in those other countries?  How long does it take to get the right treatment or surgery?  How much is their cost of living?

[Strike 6,023]

18 minutes ago, peenie said:

But children aren’t employees of the government and yet the government pays for their education for free. 
If it’s possible in every other western country for citizens to get universal healthcare, why not here?????!!!!!! We need it! It’s too darn expensive. 

Why don't we address the cost then instead of just giving those health insurance companies as much money as they want?

[BunnysBastatrds 2,606]

20 minutes ago, peenie said:

But children aren’t employees of the government and yet the government pays for their education for free. 
If it’s possible in every other western country for citizens to get universal healthcare, why not here?????!!!!!! We need it! It’s too darn expensive. 

 First, the government doesn’t pay for it…taxpayers do. Second, If a family needs healthcare for their children, they can also go to Children’s Hospital and the Shriners. And a few more paid for by donors like me who can do so because I built something.

[The Real timschochet 7,474]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

Why don't we address the cost then instead of just giving those health insurance companies as much money as they want?

Because it’s an excuse by you to do nothing. 

Of course we should look at bringing costs down. But since Republicans and Democrats generally disagree on the best way to do this, it will take long months or years to come up with an effective plan. And it will take further years to determine if that plan was successful. In the meantime, millions of Americans are either without healthcare or looking at impossible increases due to this end of the subsidies. And your solution is to do nothing in the meantime. 

[peenie 1,969]

1 hour ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

 First, the government doesn’t pay for it…taxpayers do. 

That’s a given, isn’t it? The government is funded by our tax dollars and congress decides where our tax dollars should go. I would rather our tax dollars go to education and healthcare than to funding wars, buying weapons or bailing out random countries. 

[MDC 7,899]

We didn’t get single payer HC because both parties are in the hip pocket of the health insurance industry and as a country, the United States almost never does anything bold anymore. Just look at our rail and infrastructure. 

[jerryskids 7,091]

2 hours ago, peenie said:

But children aren’t employees of the government and yet the government pays for their education for free. 
If it’s possible in every other western country for citizens to get universal healthcare, why not here?????!!!!!! We need it! It’s too darn expensive. 

Universal healthcare is feasible in a country that is small in population, small in size, homogenous, and willing to sacrifice for the good of the country.  Norway is a good example.  The US has none of these.

Here is a list of country size by population.  The US is #3.  Scroll down and tell us the first country you reach which you think has better healthcare than the US:

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/

 

[BunnysBastatrds 2,606]

28 minutes ago, peenie said:

That’s a given, isn’t it? The government is funded by our tax dollars and congress decides where our tax dollars should go. I would rather our tax dollars go to education and healthcare than to funding wars, buying weapons or bailing out random countries. 

 I couldn’t agree more. Except throwing more money to education. We spend more money than any other country in the world per  child and the results are awful. Eliminating the teachers union would be the first step.

[Strike 6,023]

47 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Because it’s an excuse by you to do nothing. 

Of course we should look at bringing costs down. But since Republicans and Democrats generally disagree on the best way to do this, it will take long months or years to come up with an effective plan. And it will take further years to determine if that plan was successful. In the meantime, millions of Americans are either without healthcare or looking at impossible increases due to this end of the subsidies. And your solution is to do nothing in the meantime. 

Nope.  That should have been the answer for Obamacare, but Obama let the health care industry write the bill instead.  If we'd started what I propose then we'd be that much further along on seeing those benefits and finding the shortcomings you allude to.  So, the sooner we get going the sooner an actual solution will be in place.  Throwing more money at a broken system isn't a solution, but it's all you EVER offer.

The fact that you libs think subsidies that were passed during Covid as a TEMPORARY thing should be made permanent tells us all we need to know about how serious you are about dealing with this issue.

[peenie 1,969]

12 minutes ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

 I couldn’t agree more. Except throwing more money to education. We spend more money than any other country in the world per  child and the results are awful. Eliminating the teachers union would be the first step.

I need Volty @Voltaire to jump in here, but I would argue that the funding situation isn’t simple and the way we educate is backwards. They do a much better job in China. The best schools are in the richest neighborhoods. My daughter went to school in Newark, NJ and the news always said the Newark schools were getting so much money but the classrooms only had 2 computers that didn’t even work! It was awful. The schools had nothing but great committed teachers. They didn’t even have air conditioning. 

[The Real timschochet 7,474]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Nope.  That should have been the answer for Obamacare, but Obama let the health care industry write the bill instead.  If we'd started what I propose then we'd be that much further along on seeing those benefits and finding the shortcomings you allude to.  So, the sooner we get going the sooner an actual solution will be in place.  Throwing more money at a broken system isn't a solution, but it's all you EVER offer.

These people are going to suffer while you attempt to put in solutions that make take years to accomplish. That’s not acceptable to me. I suspect it won’t be acceptable to the public either. 

[peenie 1,969]

15 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Universal healthcare is feasible in a country that is small in population, small in size, homogenous, and willing to sacrifice for the good of the country.  Norway is a good example.  The US has none of these.

Here is a list of country size by population.  The US is #3.  Scroll down and tell us the first country you reach which you think has better healthcare than the US:

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/

 

A better list would be per capita income. We can afford it. 

[Strike 6,023]

Just now, peenie said:

I need Volty to jump in here, but I would argue that the funding situation isn’t simple and the way we educate is backwards. They do a much better job in China. The best schools are in the richest neighborhoods. My daughter went to school in Newark, NJ and the news always said the Newark schools were getting so much money but the classrooms only had 2 computers that didn’t even work! It was awful. The schools had nothing but great committed teachers. They didn’t even have air conditioning. 

Maybe you should have sent her to private school like your father did for you. 

[Strike 6,023]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

These people are going to suffer while you attempt to put in solutions that make take years to accomplish. That’s not acceptable to me. I suspect it won’t be acceptable to the public either. 

Oh please.  As if you care about anyone but yourself.  

[The Real timschochet 7,474]

16 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Universal healthcare is feasible in a country that is small in population, small in size, homogenous, and willing to sacrifice for the good of the country.  Norway is a good example.  The US has none of these.

Here is a list of country size by population.  The US is #3.  Scroll down and tell us the first country you reach which you think has better healthcare than the US:

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/

 

There is no way for people with pre-existing conditions to pay the same as everyone else without eventually having universal healthcare. None. You know this. 

[The Real timschochet 7,474]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Oh please.  As if you care about anyone but yourself.  

This is where you guys get it so wrong. You begin with the assumption that everyone is only concerned with “whats in it for me”. You couldn’t be more incorrect in my case or in the case of most people, conservative and liberal alike. 

[peenie 1,969]

2 hours ago, Strike said:

Maybe you should have sent her to private school like your father did for you. 

You know, your memory is better than most men I’ve dated.

[Voltaire 5,491]

3 hours ago, peenie said:

I need Volty @Voltaire to jump in here, but I would argue that the funding situation isn’t simple and the way we educate is backwards. They do a much better job in China. The best schools are in the richest neighborhoods. My daughter went to school in Newark, NJ and the news always said the Newark schools were getting so much money but the classrooms only had 2 computers that didn’t even work! It was awful. The schools had nothing but great committed teachers. They didn’t even have air conditioning. 

Having taught in both, I do think Chinese school are better than US ones overall but there are things Chinese schools get  wrong too. Those great academic results come at a cost of long school hours, combined with excessive homework. Low achiving kids are shamed which leads to stress and suicides and even high achievers experience burnout. Plus there is far more memorization than deep understanding and its regimented with everything taught from the same sources o there isn't much diversity of approaching problems.

On a personal level only two of my three kids excelled in the pressure cooker over there, but all three are top students over here, including my son, whose confidence was shattered. The kid's getting straight As here, like his sisters are, but China is willing to throw kids lie him to the wolves. They use brutal shame and humiliation tactics. The parents have the equivalent of a facebook group and with my girls' classes : who did great on the test, who got everything right on their math homework,  who are the class leaders who keep the kids in line and pass out papers and wear the little Young Pioneers badges (a pool that identifies future potential Communist Party members) and my two girls were often in this group. The flip side of that is we also learn... who didn't turn in homework, who was talking in class, who forgot their pencil, who failed the test... and there's the always same moping 8-10 dejected kids including quite frequently my son. It's why I pulled him out, put him in that accredited online school out of Kansas City, and became a homeschool dad for the last two years in China. Since the girls were temperamentally suited to dong well, I left them in the Chinese system.

The shaming doesn't end with school. Two people infected with COVID had fled Hunan and arrived in Panzhihua as the COVID crackdown was being put in place. One turned himself in to the authorities. The other evaded them, went shopping at the local mall, and eventually she infected nine other friends and family before they were all rounded up. The names and addresses of all eleven were posted online and known to the whole community. There was fear but also some sympathy for ten of them, but the college girl super spreader... such venom and rage.