Vince Young Pro Day

[Jwood 0]

Something tells me the Wonderlic will be forgotten.

 

 

From the mouth of Sean Salsbury

 

You would have thought it was Rose Bowl media day with all of the media present. I've never seen that many people at a workout. Huff was there of course, but most everyone was there to see Young.

-I've never seen a college football QB throw with that kind of zip. It was bordering on unbelieveable. He threw everything and had great touch.

 

-The ball hit the ground 5 times out of 54 passes. Two overthrows and three drops.

-I gave him an A- just because I would like to see him run a bit faster.

-You will have scouts down his mechanics tomorrow. Don't change him. He is a playmaker.

-When his arm comes to maturity, it will be unbelievable.

-His footwork was really good, but then again there was no pass rush.

-He will likely go in the top 5.

-When he scrambles to his left, he forces his body into the correct throwing position.

-Watching him his incompletions will be over-thrown.

-I'm not trying to make to big a deal out of it, but you have to call what is impressive, impressive.

-The ball just jumps off of his hand. I didn't expect him to be that accurate. He really impressed me.

-Texans Coach Gary Kubiak had one word after the workout "Excellent".

He said to me "I wish we could have played with that kind of ability"

-Saban, McCarthy ad Kubiak were there. There were some Cowboy scouts there.

-If he doesn't get picked in the top 5, some teams are stupid. If you saw this workout today, and you like Leinart more, you better wait to see Leinart again on his pro day.

[Mack 1 6]

History tells us that when 2 QBs are picked high in the draft, one succeeds or they both suck; i.e., Manning/Leaf, Bledsoe/Mirer, Carr/Harrington....should be interesting to look back 5 years from now and see who pans out: Young or Leinart.

 

this is my first post since the site came back on-line   :doublebanana:

[SUXBNME 1,503]

Yea, well, wait untill he suits up in a real game situation, then we will see.

 

Sallsbury = (probably)

[Jwood 0]

Yea, well, wait untill he suits up in a real game situation, then we will see.

 

Sallsbury = (probably)

 

yeah, his great Pro Day, poise, athleticism, and everything so far including his 38-2 record and National Championship seem to point in that direction.

[SUXBNME 1,503]

yeah, his great Pro Day, poise, athleticism, and everything so far including his 38-2 record and National Championship seem to point in that direction.

 

Nothing against Vince at all, (except for the wonderlic) and I hope he has a great career in the pros, but I think there is just too much hype around him..All I'm saying is that the step from college to the NFL is huge, and we won't really know how good / bad he will be for awhile...

 

There are only 2 players in my short term, (and usually coors lighted) memory that REALLY lived up to this much hype comming out of college.

 

P. Manning @ Lebron James

 

Feel free to add more, as i am sure that there are.

 

 

 

 

Oh, yea...Lebron didn't go to college...my bad...

[Vikings4ever 550]

History tells us that when 2 QBs are picked high in the draft, one succeeds or they both suck; i.e., Manning/Leaf, Bledsoe/Mirer, Carr/Harrington....should be interesting to look back 5 years from now and see who pans out: Young or Leinart.

 

this is my first post since the site came back on-line   :doublebanana:

Couch/McNabb/Smith in 99, Schuler/Dilfer in 94, Jeff George/Andre Ware in 90, Testaverde/Kelly Stouffer in 87, Elway/Todd Blackledge in 83, Art Schlichter/Jim McMahon in 82.

 

You have to go back to 1971's Plunkett/Manning/Pastorini to find 2 high picks that had any success. But 2004's Manning/Rivers/Roethlisberger has 2 successes and 1 questionmark so far.

[t.j 35]

-I've never seen a college football QB throw with that kind of zip. It was bordering on unbelieveable. He threw everything and had great touch.

 

Whaaaaaaaaaaat? Come on, Sean, seriously?

 

-The ball hit the ground 5 times out of 54 passes. Two overthrows and three drops.

 

In Cutler's workout, the ball hit the ground 1 time in 45 passes, despite "swirling" winds.

 

-I gave him an A- just because I would like to see him run a bit faster.

 

Oh please. Like a guy who passes as well as Salisbury claims needs better than a 4.57 40.

 

-You will have scouts down his mechanics tomorrow. Don't change him. He is a playmaker.

 

They'll change him. No QB coach is going to take him and say, "Ok, I'm not going to try to give him a more reliable release, I'll focus 100% of my teaching on decision making."

 

-When his arm comes to maturity, it will be unbelievable.

 

That I can believe.

 

-If he doesn't get picked in the top 5, some teams are stupid. If you saw this workout today, and you like Leinart more, you better wait to see Leinart again on his pro day.

 

I'm not saying Young's workout can't have been as impressive as Salisbury claims. (I've heard glowing reports about Young's pro day elsewhere.) I'm not saying Young shouldn't go into the top 5. But isn't Young exactly the kind of guy who should have a great pro day? (Running, and throwing against air.) Isn't Leinart's strength supposed to be in his head? May Salisbury should lay off the Pro Day Kool-Aid just a bit...

 

this is my first post since the site came back on-line   :doublebanana:

 

Welcome back.

[Zap 0]

They'll change him. No QB coach is going to take him and say, "Ok, I'm not going to try to give him a more reliable release, I'll focus 100% of my teaching on decision making."

 

Nope. His mechanical issues are way overblown by the media. He's being coached by QB guru Jerry Rhome, and he is not being asked to change a thing. Norm Chow said he would never ask him to change what's working for him. Sean Payton said as much. You cannot change him at this point, and they will not try. He throws like a girl, but the ball comes out very impressively.

[t.j 35]

Couch/McNabb/Smith in 99, Schuler/Dilfer in 94, Jeff George/Andre Ware in 90, Testaverde/Kelly Stouffer in 87, Elway/Todd Blackledge in 83, Art Schlichter/Jim McMahon in 82.

 

You have to go back to 1971's Plunkett/Manning/Pastorini to find 2 high picks that had any success. But 2004's Manning/Rivers/Roethlisberger has 2 successes and 1 questionmark so far.

 

I'm not sure you can count Roethlisberger. You didn't count Culpepper/McNown for '99. Or Kelly/Eason in '83 for that matter.

 

But I think it's a good point. Teams are really reaching on QBs these days, and you have to look no further than the ADP of the top QBs in the last few years. The #1 pick has been a QB 7 of the last 8 years, which is frankly ridiculous.

[Vikings4ever 550]

I'm not sure you can count Roethlisberger. You didn't count Culpepper/McNown for '99. Or Kelly/Eason in '83 for that matter.

 

But I think it's a good point. Teams are really reaching on QBs these days, and you have to look no further than the ADP of the top QBs in the last few years. The #1 pick has been a QB 7 of the last 8 years, which is frankly ridiculous.

Culpepper and Berger both went at 11, so I guess you have to count both or neither.

[t.j 35]

Nope. His mechanical issues are way overblown by the media. He's being coached by QB guru Jerry Rhome, and he is not being asked to change a thing. Norm Chow said he would never ask him to change what's working for him. Sean Payton said as much. You cannot change him at this point, and they will not try. He throws like a girl, but the ball comes out very impressively.

 

Ok, I can buy that.

[Vikings4ever 550]

NFL | More on Young at Pro Day

Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:25:01 -0800

 

Charean Williams, of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, reports Texas QB Vince Young threw 55 passes with five incomplete and one drop during his Pro Day workout Wednesday, March 22. Young worked out with four wide receivers - Texas WRs David Thomas, Ahmard Hall, Brian Carter and former high school teammate and Idaho WR Daniel Smith. Young also caught one pass on a trick play. "I feel like I did a good job," said Young. "I stayed relaxed, poised and had fun. You hear so much that 'Vince is not working out. Vince is not doing this and that.' I wanted to go out and show them that I am working out."

[t.j 35]

-The ball hit the ground 5 times out of 54 passes. Two overthrows and three drops.

 

Charean Williams, of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, reports Texas QB Vince Young threw 55 passes with five incomplete and one drop

 

Hmmmmmmm....

[Zap 0]

Hmmmmmmm....

 

There is no official 40 time just like there is no official drop/bad pass in these things. It's all a matter of how fast you click the little button on the stopwatch and how you personally feel about a pass being catchable.

 

Leinart will go 60-60. He's been choreographing his routine since January.

[t.j 35]

There is no official 40 time just like there is no official drop/bad pass in these things. It's all a matter of how fast you click the little button on the stopwatch and how you personally feel about a pass being catchable.

 

Right. So the point is, A. I think Salisbury is drunk on Kool Aid, and more importantly B. we know that 44 of Cutler's 45 passes were catchable, because they were caught. Supposedly the other was taken by the wind. Whereas with Young we only know that 49 of 54 passes were caught.

 

Leinart will go 60-60. He's been choreographing his routine since January.

 

Is Leinart even among your top 3 QB prospects this year?

[LunaTick 30]

I just find it so interesting that a career backup QB can have such an influence on this board.

 

Yeah, that is right Steakems, I am calling you out.

[shovelheadt 71]

Remember the questions about Palmer's head? How supposedly it took him forever to pick up the offense at USC. Shiat, in his second year of starting, he's running the no huddle similar to Manning. I'll admit the critiques had me worried.

[Zap 0]

Is Leinart even among your top 3 QB prospects this year?

 

Only because he has such great hands he could convert to WR in a pinch. Leinart = Slash...

[GeminiV 0]

Remember the questions about Palmer's head? How supposedly it took him forever to pick up the offense at USC. Shiat, in his second year of starting, he's running the no huddle similar to Manning. I'll admit the critiques had me worried.

 

I remember that. I was convinced that Leftwich was going to be a better pro. Not one of my better calls.

 

I think Palmer was a better physical prospect than Young, though. Stronger, more accurate arm with better throwing mechanics. Certainly not as fast as Young, but no slouch when it came to mobility, either.

[fightklub 0]

Something tells me the Wonderlic will be forgotten.

From the mouth of Sean Salsbury

 

You would have thought it was Rose Bowl media day with all of the media present. I've never seen that many people at a workout. Huff was there of course, but most everyone was there to see Young.

-I've never seen a college football QB throw with that kind of zip. It was bordering on unbelieveable. He threw everything and had great touch.

 

-The ball hit the ground 5 times out of 54 passes. Two overthrows and three drops.

-I gave him an A- just because I would like to see him run a bit faster.

-You will have scouts down his mechanics tomorrow. Don't change him. He is a playmaker.

-When his arm comes to maturity, it will be unbelievable.

-His footwork was really good, but then again there was no pass rush.

-He will likely go in the top 5.

-When he scrambles to his left, he forces his body into the correct throwing position.

-Watching him his incompletions will be over-thrown.

-I'm not trying to make to big a deal out of it, but you have to call what is impressive, impressive.

-The ball just jumps off of his hand. I didn't expect him to be that accurate. He really impressed me.

-Texans Coach Gary Kubiak had one word after the workout "Excellent".

He said to me "I wish we could have played with that kind of ability"

-Saban, McCarthy ad Kubiak were there. There were some Cowboy scouts there.

-If he doesn't get picked in the top 5, some teams are stupid. If you saw this workout today, and you like Leinart more, you better wait to see Leinart again on his pro day.

 

 

So teams should draft him b/c Sean Salsbury said so.... That guy is an idiot.

[Vikings4ever 550]

Cardinals | Rowen takes Young out to dinner

Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:06:07 -0800

 

Suzanne Halliburton, of the American-Statesman, reports Arizona Cardinals offensive coordinator Keith Rowen took Texas QB Vince Young out for dinner for an informal interview Tuesday, March 21.

 

 

Ravens | Team will have Young in for private workout

Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:05:54 -0800

 

Suzanne Halliburton, of the American-Statesman, reports the Baltimore Ravens have scheduled Texas QB Vince Young for a private workout, according to his agent Major Adams.

 

 

Jets | Team will have Young in for private workout

Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:05:41 -0800

 

Suzanne Halliburton, of the American-Statesman, reports the New York Jets have scheduled Texas QB Vince Young for a private workout, according to his agent Major Adams.

 

 

Texans | Team will have Young in for private workout

Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:05:25 -0800

 

Suzanne Halliburton, of the American-Statesman, reports the Houston Texans will invite Texas QB Vince Young to their offices for a private workout.

[Apu Nahasapeemapetilon 0]

I think I prefer the Ron Wolf model when it comes to picking QBs. Grab two of them in rounds 3-8. Then you don't spend a boatload of cash on an unknown and you can avoid the pressure of playing them right away. If they don't develop the mentality needed to be an NFL QB, you just cut em.

 

With the #1...sure you get a Peyton Manning, but you also get a Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, etc. Tons of other examples are already listed.

 

It seems a guy like Charlie Whitehurst or Omar Jacobs has as much of a chance to succeed in the NFL as say, Vince Young. The only difference is Young was surrounded by talent...Whitehurst and Jacobs were not. Lots of starting NFL QBs were picked mid round or later (Brady, Hasselback, Brunell, Warner, Simms ?). Like someone said, teams just reach for the QB position and it only works out about 1/3 of the time.

 

I'd much rather take a Ferguson, M Williams, Huff, or J Williams ... then grab a sleeper QB in mid rounds.

[Ilov80s 0]

I think I prefer the Ron Wolf model when it comes to picking QBs. Grab two of them in rounds 3-8. Then you don't spend a boatload of cash on an unknown and you can avoid the pressure of playing them right away. If they don't develop the mentality needed to be an NFL QB, you just cut em.

 

With the #1...sure you get a Peyton Manning, but you also get a Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, etc. Tons of other examples are already listed.

 

It seems a guy like Charlie Whitehurst or Omar Jacobs has as much of a chance to succeed in the NFL as say, Vince Young. The only difference is Young was surrounded by talent...Whitehurst and Jacobs were not. Lots of starting NFL QBs were picked mid round or later (Brady, Hasselback, Brunell, Warner, Simms ?). Like someone said, teams just reach for the QB position and it only works out about 1/3 of the time.

 

I'd much rather take a Ferguson, M Williams, Huff, or J Williams ... then grab a sleeper QB in mid rounds.

 

 

Because there are never any offensive lineman, defensive ends or defensive backs that turn into busts.

[surferskin 30]

Sean Salsbury is an idiot...i'll wait til we get a credible source.

[Apu Nahasapeemapetilon 0]

Because there are never any offensive lineman, defensive ends or defensive backs that turn into busts.

 

 

Of course there are....but it seems less likely. The other positions don't require as much mental skills as QB, they mainly require physical skills. I think WR and offensive linemen (in certain offensive schemes) are also risky. But athletic positions such as CB, S, LB, DE have very few busts.

 

I think the question with every position except QB is whether or not the physical assets they succeeded on in college translate to the pro game, and if they have enough brainpower to remember/execute the plays correctly.

 

With QBs it's more mental than physical. Can they lead? Can they audible? Do they get flustered in the pocket? And that's something you can't determine from a Wonderlic score or in a 40 yard dash.

 

While I was only a 3rd string QB in college...one thing I know is that when I went from HS to college the speed you have to process things was unreal, and our playbook went from 17 plays in HS to over 80 in college. It has to be twice as hard to go from college to the pros. And I doubt it's a measureable trait.

[themorey 1]

Another ESPN article that contradicts Mr. Salisbury:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2380236

 

 

Here's a telling exerpt:

 

"According to the same scout, Young's overall workout was "fairly impressive," but the scout said that Young was not asked to make certain drops and throws that he would have to perform in a private team workout.

 

While Young completed all but five of more than 50 passes, a scout told Mortensen, 'That wasn't a remarkable achievement because he wasn't asked to make many tough throws and he waited a lot on his receivers to get out of their breaks. Teams that are curious about the guy are going to want to see more when they work him out.'"

 

 

Basically this scout was saying that Young was very reserved and conservative during the Pro Day. Later in the article it talks about how Cutler looked much more impressive while outside in swirling winds, whereas Young was inside.

 

I'm not trying to say that Young will be a bust because only time will tell. However, I'm not yet ready to jump on the bandwagon now only to find out its an onion cart in another year or 2. I only hope the Jets pass on him at #4. I agree with the post earlier that talked about only taking QBs in rounds 3-8 and save yourself a ton of money. I wish the Jets could find someone like Brady lurking in the later rounds.

[Timinator 0]

I think I prefer the Ron Wolf model when it comes to picking QBs. Grab two of them in rounds 3-8. Then you don't spend a boatload of cash on an unknown and you can avoid the pressure of playing them right away. If they don't develop the mentality needed to be an NFL QB, you just cut em.

 

 

I have to point out that Wolf was the "dumbass" who traded a 1.17 pick on a drunk, back-up QB drafted in th second round just 11 months earlier. Yeah, Favre turned out OK, but Wolf's first QB move was indeed a head scratcher.

 

Now, Vince Young appears to be a stud. Much like Favre, he's ripped for his mechanics. Young is a physical marvel who also has more intangibles than we've seen from a collge guy in a long time. I'm pulling for him.

[RLLD 4,230]

Have you ever seen this guy throw the rock? It's like watching a retard trying to copulate with a street sign...

 

Any team that takes a chance on this cat will not merely be overpaying for a mediocre QB, they will be practically burning their money.

 

They would be better served to just give it to Ryan Leaf instead.

[RoadLizard 73]

Might as well put him in the HOF right away.....

 

Oh yeah.... he actually has to play in a PRO style offense, not the shotgun, option, backyard crap he ran at Texas.

 

Oh yeah.... he will face REAL defenses unlike College where defenses just move out of the way for you and allow HUGE stats.

 

Oh yeah.... he'll have to complete passes quickly and accurately all the time.

 

Oh yeah..... He can run around and get on Sportscenter every night, but that doesnt make him a good QB.

 

He should just switch to RB or WR now and save us all the incessant knob-slobbering we'll have to put up with next season. The announcers are already having circle-jerks over this and their d!cks will be sore as the season moves on.

 

We already went trough this with Mick Vick.... now we get to do it all over again...

 

Great, just great....

[Timinator 0]

Might as well put him in the HOF right away.....

 

I don't think anyone said he should get a free pass to Canton.

 

Truth is he's excelled at the offense he was given. That doesn't mean he will or won't succeed in the NFL.

Truth is he's beaten college defenses like Ohio and USC that are BETTER than some NFL defenses.

Truth is he's thrown for 65% accuracy already in college--similar to a good-year Culpepper.

Truth is he's got as much chance to be the second coming of Steve Young or Fran Tarkenton--HOFers.

 

It's still a gamble. Just don't have hime sharing a room with Akili Smith just yet.

[Jwood 0]

Might as well put him in the HOF right away.....

 

 

Oh yeah.... he will face REAL defenses unlike College where defenses just move out of the way for you and allow HUGE stats.

 

Oh yeah.... he'll have to complete passes quickly and accurately all the time.

 

Oh yeah..... He can run around and get on Sportscenter every night, but that doesnt make him a good QB.

 

Same goes for EVERY quarterback that comes out of college. It's all relative. He's just done it at a higher level and better than 95% of the other college QBs.

[Deadpool 0]

Might as well put him in the HOF right away.....

 

Oh yeah.... he actually has to play in a PRO style offense, not the shotgun, option, backyard crap he ran at Texas.

 

Oh yeah.... he will face REAL defenses unlike College where defenses just move out of the way for you and allow HUGE stats.

 

Oh yeah.... he'll have to complete passes quickly and accurately all the time.

 

Oh yeah..... He can run around and get on Sportscenter every night, but that doesnt make him a good QB.

 

He should just switch to RB or WR now and save us all the incessant knob-slobbering we'll have to put up with next season. The announcers are already having circle-jerks over this and their d!cks will be sore as the season moves on.

 

We already went trough this with Mick Vick.... now we get to do it all over again...

 

Great, just great....

 

 

No one here outside of IAMWOOD is proclaiming that Young is the next HOFer. But alot of us see different things about Young's ability that give us reason to think that he will be pretty good as he matures into a NFL QB. Let's see if any news comes out of his private workouts with other teams the next few days.

 

And a parting shot here...............

 

I can't remember the last time a college QB was labeled "Clutch Performer" or consistently led his team from behind and that ability did not transcend into the NFL at some point in their careers.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Truth is he's beaten college defenses like Ohio and USC that are BETTER than some NFL defenses.

 

This one stuck out. NO WAY. What he did single handedly against USC will never even get close to be matched against an NFL defense, and they are better than some in the NFL? His athletic ability will keep him afloat for awhile, but defenses will adjust as much as they can to that and we'll see.

[surferskin 30]

Truth is he's beaten college defenses like Ohio and USC that are BETTER than some NFL defenses.

 

you lost me right there...what the hell are you talking about?

[CA_7 0]

Mort was on Mike & Mike this morning and both he and Golic said that all the reviews they hear were that Young did "alright". He did not improve his draft position but did not hurt it either. A lot of the throws were tailored to Young's strengths (who wouldn't) and he threw under ideal conditions (unlike Jay Cutler).

 

Kiper came on later in the show and added that while he thinks Youngs is one of three players in the draft he should get picked in the 6-10 range and could actually slip because teams after OAK and AZ have other needs to fill besides QB. Kiper said it could end up like Favre who Kiper projected for mid-1st but slipped to the 2nd and became a great NFL QB.

[Timinator 0]

you lost me right there...what the hell are you talking about?

 

I'm talking about Vince Young beating college defenses that are better than some current NFL defenses.

 

Last September, Young and the Longhorns beat a very good Ohio State defense, led by the linebacker law firm of Hawk, Schlegel and Carpenter. That LB trio is certainly better than my Packers and my now-hometown Vikings. Not even close.

[slash 0]

Another ESPN article that contradicts Mr. Salisbury:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2380236

Here's a telling exerpt:

 

"According to the same scout, Young's overall workout was "fairly impressive," but the scout said that Young was not asked to make certain drops and throws that he would have to perform in a private team workout.

 

While Young completed all but five of more than 50 passes, a scout told Mortensen, 'That wasn't a remarkable achievement because he wasn't asked to make many tough throws and he waited a lot on his receivers to get out of their breaks. Teams that are curious about the guy are going to want to see more when they work him out.'"

Basically this scout was saying that Young was very reserved and conservative during the Pro Day. Later in the article it talks about how Cutler looked much more impressive while outside in swirling winds, whereas Young was inside.

 

I'm not trying to say that Young will be a bust because only time will tell. However, I'm not yet ready to jump on the bandwagon now only to find out its an onion cart in another year or 2. I only hope the Jets pass on him at #4. I agree with the post earlier that talked about only taking QBs in rounds 3-8 and save yourself a ton of money. I wish the Jets could find someone like Brady lurking in the later rounds.

 

this is what i am hearing as well. I think in this case either salsa man maybe on the take. I think if i was a team, and the guy was doing simple things on his proday, then i would downgrade him... or bring him in and make him make the tough throws... and then tell everyone he looked great and not draft him...

[t.j 35]

Truth is he's beaten college defenses like Ohio and USC that are BETTER than some NFL defenses.

 

Are you high? This is the dumbest thing anyone has said in this thread, maybe on FFT since the board came back up.

[SigEp316 0]

Salsbury is a douche

[Timinator 0]

Are you high? This is the dumbest thing anyone has said in this thread, maybe on FFT since the board came back up.

 

Huh. Not for a second did I think you guys would jump on this point.

 

Is it that you over-value the poor NFL defenses? Or that you under-value the smokin' college defenses? Ohio State easily had an NFL-quality defense last season and Vince young beat them last September. Just stating truth. Don't shoot the messenger.