NFC North Discussion

[goodwj 0]

So lets hear projections- debates -opinions- draft talk.

 

lets keep it cool untill later, then it can turn into the battledomes as it usually does.

 

Lovie smith is now the longest tenured coach, a lot of personell changes in the north.

 

vikes are solid everwhere except the skill positions (baltimore-esqe?)

- prob loosing burleson, (big whoop)

 

bears are close to the same situation as the vikes, good Def, questions on offense..

- qb is a big ? i like griese, but well see how he is in the cold and bears system. but lovie is showing hes got it

 

packers are .... well......?'s all over need to get rogers some snaps in games that are lost or won with farve helping him, and def help. years away from competeing again,

 

Detroit, nice new coaches, roy williams and kevin jones need to be healthy all year martz is going to the air with kitna, who will play his heart out, ( ithought he was doing ok his last year in cincy)

 

 

copy of the signings:

NFC North

 

Chicago

- Roberto Garza - C (extended)

- Dante Wesley - DB (Car)

- Brian Griese - QB (TB)

- Israel Idonije - DE (Chi)

- John Gilmore - TE (Chi)

 

Detroit

- Shaun King - QB (Ari)

- Shawn Bryson - RB (Det)

- Victor Rogers - OG (Det)

- Eddie Drummond - WR (Det)

- Corey Bradford - WR (Hou)

- Jon Kitna - QB (Cin)

- Kalimba Edwards - DE (Det)

- Dan Cambell - TE (Dal)

- Josh McCown - QB (Ariz)

- Arlen Harris - RB (StL)

- Barry Stokes - OT (Atl)

- Paris Lenon - LB (GB)

- Rex Tucker - G (StL)

- Courtney VanBuren - OG (SD)

- Jared Devries - DE (Det)

- Levar Woods - LB (Det)

- Idrees Bashir - S (Car)

 

Green Bay

- Aaron Kampman - DE (GB)

- Marquand Manuel - S (Sea)

- Ahman Green - RB (GB)

- Ryan Pickett - DT (StL)

- Kevin Barry - OT (GB)

- Kenny Peterson - DE (GB)

- Rod Gardner - WR (GB)

- Cullen Jenkins - DT (GB)

- William Henderson - FB (GB)

- Tracy White - LB (Jax)

- Ben Taylor - LB (Cle)

- Billy Cundiff - K (Dal)

- Najeh Davenport - RB (GB)

- Marc Boerigter - WR (KC)

 

Minnesota

- Koren Robinson - WR (Min)

- Ryan Longwell - K (GB)

- Chester Taylor - RB (Bal)

- Ben Leber - LB (SD)

- Jason Whittle - OT (NYG)

- Steve Hutchinson - OG (Sea)

- Tony Richardson - FB (KC)

- DeQuincy Scott - DT (SD)

- Tank Williams - S (Ten)

- Mike McMahon - QB (Phi)

 

 

im thinking, depending on coaching and what not, that the pack will be at the bottom (bold statement i know..0

 

minnesota, det, and chtown will be at it for first just a few game around or above 500.

 

i dont want to be too much of a homer, but i think Minny has a good shot this year if johnson doesnt go down.

 

Signings:

vikes get a B- in my grade book got a few good keystone (richardson and hutch- richardson did block for preist and LJ) but leber? mcmahon? i dont know maybe even a C+. keeping K-rob is Key also.

 

pack= C+picked up a lot of defense, but madiocre players, kept kampman, which i like ( i was hoping we would get him last year) gave ahman and dvenpoop another shot after knees.

 

DET= B martz in charge of Offense is good. kept some guys not really any big standout guys. and two eager Qb's

 

CHI= B- didnt do much at all but got griese which is big i think. maybe need a reciever still mush is ok but aging

 

DRAFT:

vikes will go LB unless qb slips to early teens, ~this was in a thread earlier but lets congiel all this together, for the hell of it.

 

other guys chime in when you want

 

the vikes and bears are the 2 teams to do it, with detroit being a dark horse and pack are just playing football.

 

i know this is kinda sketchy post.

 

and Im still a fan on how we kept the Uniforms Classic so long, just thre that in there for you to chew on also.

 

but i hear the vikes are changing their unis, at least their helmets to a more "new age" horn

[hoffdaddy 1]

1. Bears

2. Vikings

3. Lions

4. Packers

[yostevo 0]

:popcorn:

 

Bears

Lions

Vikings

GB

[uubeee 0]

I think every team in this division is a real ?.

 

That being said, I see a real flat division this year. By that I mean not a lot of seperation from 1st place to last. Top team could have 8-9 wins. Bottom team could easily have 5 wins.

 

Gonna be one of those years when we only know what's going on when it is all finished.

 

I give Chicago the best bet. Simply because the coaching staff is the only one that isn't new and new coaches bring new schemes to learn which most often doesn't pan out early in the season.

 

My $.02

[MSU Bigtime 0]

Well I really think there is no question that this division is the worst in football. The Bears are probably the best in the division, and you put them in almost any other division and I think they are probably 3rd in it.

 

Team by team (and I will try to keep it fair):

 

Bears: Good defense, but how far can the defense carry them? It carried them to the playoffs last year with an extremely questionable offense. Thomas Jones had the best season of his career, but slowed down as the season went on IMO. However they have Benson there too. I still think they could use another WR. The entire team I figure will ride on the QB. Will it be Rex or Brian? I think the signing of Griese should help to push Rex some, and I still think they come out on top. Predicted record: 10-6

 

Lions: This team is probably the biggest unknown in the division. They have a history of looking good on paper and in the off season, and then blowing it during the season. Can they turn that around? I think they made some awesome signings as far as the coaching staff. Martz could really make this team exciting. The question is, can they turn this team around, and how quickly can they do it? It is hard to question the potential of this team, but can they finally get it going? If they shore up the offensive line some and add a LB and FS through the draft (another CB wouldn't hurt either), then they could be decent this year and really break out the next year once the system is fully instilled. Predicted record: 8-8

 

Minnesota: This team has taken an interesting path. They consistently underachieved with Tice, Culpepper and Moss. Cpep and Moss were their best players, and now they have gone a different direction. Johnson got them to start winning at the end of last year. The players they have at the skill positions aren't the most exciting types.... Johnson, Moore, Taylor, Williamson are all average so far. If they stay healthy, they should have a decent year. I really like Brad Childress and think he will do well. They will be an interesting team to watch. I still think the defense needs some help though, especially in the secondary. Predicted record: 8-8

 

Packers: Man this team has a long way to go. Holes are everywhere, and if Favre leaves they are really sunk. Even with Favre I think 5 or 6 wins is the best they can hope. The are losing their best WR in Walker, and when he went down last year, it really hurt them. It seems a lot of the talent has headed out of GB and not much has come back to replace it. The OLIne is still a big ? as is the secondary and LBs. Green is getting older too, but resigning Davenport should help, although Gado did well last year too. If I were a Pack fan, I wouldn't have much to be excited about this year. Predicted record: 5-11

 

Just my thoughts... Have at it.

[swamp dog 0]

i've sworn off predictions this year

 

i'll focus on team needs and the draft:

 

vikings: i disagree they are set everywhere but the skill positions. they have pressing needs (and/or questions) at linebacker, safety, wr, rb, and qb (depth). day 1 focus in the draft: linebacker, rb, maybe qb.

 

bears: they have pressing needs at cb, wr, te. the o-line is also getting long in the tooth. their draft will focus on those areas most likely.

 

packers: need to get the qb issue resolved (is he or isn't he?). pressing needs at linebacker, corner, wr (assumes the departure of walker), guard, d-line, linebacker, kicker...i feel like i'm missing something, but you get the idea. pick 5 will most likely be mario or hawk.

 

lions: pressing need at free safety (holt fans aside), guard. mlb is a ? as holmes is unlikely to return. de or a corner rusher still a priority despite the re-signing of kalimba. day 1 focus in the draft: secondary, guard, mlb (perhaps te in mid rounds).

 

that's off the top of my head.

 

keys to the season for each team (aside from injuries):

 

vikings: do the vikings additions (coaching staff) outweigh the departures these past two years (tice, culpepper, moss)?

 

bears: will a qb controversy erupt? does rex "have it"? this team needs to put together another strong season to silence the doubters.

 

packers: qb play (whether or not favre comes back). mccarthy: is this guy any good or the second coming of marty moronweg?

 

lions: will the players respond to marinelli? can marinelli elevate the games of the current core of players without having to purge the roster?

[Phurfur 70]

The division really sucks so I would say everyone has a chance. I have only looked at the Packers schedule but it is pathetic.

 

Home Away

Chicago Bears (11-5) Chicago Bears (11-5)

Detroit Lions (5-11) Detroit Lions (5-11)

Minnesota Vikings (9-7) Minnesota Vikings (9-7)

Arizona Cardinals (5-11) San Francisco 49ers (4-12)

St. Louis Rams (6-10) Seattle Seahawks (13-3)

New Orleans Saints (3-13) Philadelphia Eagles (6-10)

New England Patriots (10-6) Buffalo Bills (5-11)

New York Jets (4-12) Miami Dolphins (9-7)

 

They won't have to be that good to win 8 or 9 games. I would give the advanage to the Bears because they have the best coach and this division can be won a good defense.

[n_omarley 11]

The Bears have to be the favorite, due to the solid defense.

 

Vikes are always a question mark, but now they're a question mark with little offensive fire power

 

Not sure what to expect from Detroit, same as usual

 

The Pack: I am a homer. They do have many holes, and may be terrrible again. BUT, you could look at them as a real sleeper in the division. They entered last year as a playoff contender, were decimated by injuries, and still managed to hang in close games while using players they took off of the street that week. This year can't get any worse, can it? They are the only team in the division with a play-making QB (Yes, he is coming back), and their defense did finish in the top 10 statistically last year. Again; I'm a homer, they could suck again, but they really could be a sleeper.

[swamp dog 0]

The Bears have to be the favorite, due to the solid defense.

 

Vikes are always a question mark, but now they're a question mark with little offensive fire power

 

Not sure what to expect from Detroit, same as usual

 

The Pack: I am a homer. They do have many holes, and may be terrrible again. BUT, you could look at them as a real sleeper in the division. They entered last year as a playoff contender, were decimated by injuries, and still managed to hang in close games while using players they took off of the street that week. This year can't get any worse, can it? They are the only team in the division with a play-making QB (Yes, he is coming back), and their defense did finish in the top 10 statistically last year. Again; I'm a homer, they could suck again, but they really could be a sleeper.

 

a couple of corrections, and then after that you're entitled to your opinion:

 

--the packers weren't considered a playoff contender last year by anyone outside of green bay. yes, they were coming off of three-straight nfcn titles but it was obvious to many going into last year the packers were in for a bumpy ride.

 

--if you check stats, *most* bad teams in the nfl are still "in" a majority of their games and lose a lot of games by single-digit points. this is rather routine for poor teams and in no way indicates they are "close" to being respectable. Case in point, the 2002 Detroit Lions: they lost EIGHT games by 7 points or less (hmm, how'd that go for them in 2003?). 2005 Lions lost five games by 4, 1, 6 (overtime), 5, 3 (overtime) points respectively. So friggin what: good teams win those games, bad teams don't. That also applies to the Packers.

 

--the packers have the most overall team holes of any team in the division. by far.

 

now: none of the above guarantees anything as per where the packers will end up this year. just providing you some corrections to your theory.

 

cheers.

[SmartassBoiler 0]

Depending on who's available, the Bears need to take either a potential stud CB or a TE in the first round. Tye Hill or Leonard Pope would work well. The CBs were exposed against Carolina (most notably, but against other tough passing teams as well), and after losing Azumah to retirement they can't afford to go into the season with Tillman and Vasher as their only good CBs. Desmond Clark has been horrible and they badly need a TE to provide a threat in the passing game.

 

I wouldn't mind an additional WR, but with Muhammad anchored as the #1 option, the hopeful successful return of Bradley, and the continued development of Berrian I think the WRs aren't as bad, especially since they don't need to have a big vertical passing game to win ballgames.

 

I think they're a definite contender for the NFC North crown, but I'd like to see what they do in the draft first.

[Walter34 3]

Chi 10-6

Det 8-8

Min 7-9

GB 5-11

 

Minn is the hardest team to figure out because of the massive changeover in coaches and personel. A likely change in philosophy to a ground game as well.

 

The changes in Det at qb and coaching have to improve things somewhat. Sometimes there is adjustment periods where a step back before two forward is necessary.

 

GB is in the middle of a rebuild and the core players that made them good in the past are aged and on the downside.

 

Chi is the most complete team of the group but with some question marks at QB, WR and DB depth. Good team, but not a SB threat yet.

[n_omarley 11]

a couple of corrections, and then after that you're entitled to your opinion:

 

--the packers weren't considered a playoff contender last year by anyone outside of green bay. yes, they were coming off of three-straight nfcn titles but it was obvious to many going into last year the packers were in for a bumpy ride.

 

--if you check stats, *most* bad teams in the nfl are still "in" a majority of their games and lose a lot of games by single-digit points. this is rather routine for poor teams and in no way indicates they are "close" to being respectable. Case in point, the 2002 Detroit Lions: they lost EIGHT games by 7 points or less (hmm, how'd that go for them in 2003?). 2005 Lions lost five games by 4, 1, 6 (overtime), 5, 3 (overtime) points respectively. So friggin what: good teams win those games, bad teams don't. That also applies to the Packers.

 

--the packers have the most overall team holes of any team in the division. by far.

 

now: none of the above guarantees anything as per where the packers will end up this year. just providing you some corrections to your theory.

 

cheers.

 

1. I guess whether or not they were considered a contender is moot, considering everyone was putting the Vikings in the Super Bowl and thought the Bears would win about 2 games.

 

2. You're right about good teams winning games.

 

3. As I stated, they do have many holes. But they had those holes last year, still had a good defense, and are working on doing some plugging

 

4. I respect your ideas, but you didn't "correct" me on anything

 

again, they may end up sucking a$$. I'm just stating that if the defense is solid again, they stay remotely healthy, and Favre plays well they could pose problems for teams in the division. Hence, I consider tehm a sleeper.

 

cheers to you also! (I like this kinder, gentler forum stuff)

[swamp dog 0]

Chi 10-6

Det 8-8

Min 7-9

GB 5-11

 

Minn is the hardest team to figure out because of the massive changeover in coaches and personel. A likely change in philosophy to a ground game as well.

 

The changes in Det at qb and coaching have to improve things somewhat. Sometimes there is adjustment periods where a step back before two forward is necessary.

 

GB is in the middle of a rebuild and the core players that made them good in the past are aged and on the downside.

 

Chi is the most complete team of the group but with some question marks at QB, WR and DB depth. Good team, but not a SB threat yet.

 

i'm not going to get burned again by record predictions...but i do think your worded assessments here are pretty spot-on.

 

1. I guess whether or not they were considered a contender is moot, considering everyone was putting the Vikings in the Super Bowl and thought the Bears would win about 2 games.

 

2. You're right about good teams winning games.

 

3. As I stated, they do have many holes. But they had those holes last year, still had a good defense, and are working on doing some plugging

 

4. I respect your ideas, but you didn't "correct" me on anything

 

again, they may end up sucking a$$. I'm just stating that if the defense is solid again, they stay remotely healthy, and Favre plays well they could pose problems for teams in the division. Hence, I consider tehm a sleeper.

 

cheers to you also! (I like this kinder, gentler forum stuff)

 

thanks for the explanations. i do hope for a competitive division this year. much in minny, detroit, and green bay will hinge on how quickly those teams respond (or if they do at all) to the new coaching staffs. that's always a complete unknown.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

I think it's way too early to make any real predictions about the NFC North. There is not one dominant team in the division. They are all pretty mediocre at best. Hopefully this year we will find out if Green Bay and Chicago's defenses are really as good as they played last year. They both played weak offensive teams last year, which I think boosted their stats.

 

I think it is the popular choice to choose Green Bay as 5-11 or whatever. But if Brett Favre does come back, I expect them to be better than that. Their defense performed well last year, they've picked up Picket for their line, may get Charles Woodson, signed Manuel (Who is at least better than Roman), and may get AJ Hawk in the draft which would, at least on paper, give them a pretty decent Defense.

 

On offense, if they can get some line help, I think they'll surprise alot of people. Let's not forget how banged up their whole team was last year. With Walker gone, I expect their offense to continue to struggle, but if they can deal him for somebody decent, they might be ok.

[Sho Nuff 719]

I will get back to my predictions...but...to compare Minny to Chicago in that first post that way is laughable.

 

Chicago is the favorite. While their offense lacks firepower...their defense is great.

 

Minny's defense is not great...it might get to being "good" this year. But as others mentioned you have major questionmarks at LB, S...and even CB (Smoot is terrible)

[Sho Nuff 719]

Ok...as for the division.

 

As I said Chicago is the frontrunner obviously.

 

Still have little offense...even if Greise is the starter. The guy is a career backup...still only have one WR. Good running game...great defense. It should be enough to win this division and maybe a playoff game.

 

2-4....take your pick really. 3 new coaching situations...

 

in no order...

 

Detroit...yes the 2 QBs should be an improvement...but you have 2 new QBs in a new system. The line is still a weak spot...defense is decent...but nothing earth shattering. If the QBs gel with the WRs...and the line can hold up...Detroit can be the surprise team IMO. And I hate saying that.

 

Green Bay...Favre will return. Question is...will it be vintage Favre...or 2005 Favre. WRs are a big ? I like the resigning of Gardner as a solid big posession WR...too go along with the smaller posession guy in Driver. Still need someone to stretch the field...Boerigter could be that guy if he stays healthy. Im not holding my breath. MASH unit at RB...surely one will stay healthy this year? Lots of ? on the oline. Latest I heard had Klemm possibly moving to RT with Tauscher moving into guard. Who knows. Clifton and Tauscher are as solid as can be at T. Wells should be an adequate center. Whitticker...hopefully he improves some...and we will see about the other guard spot. Look for a guard in the 2nd round (Charles Spencer). Defense needs an LB...and possibly a corner to push Carrol to do better or be moved to nickel. (Woodson anyone?) Interior Dline is the strength with alot of youth there.

 

Minny...who knows...Secondary is still weak...LBs are weak...strong Dline. Oline should improve with Hutch...Im still not sold on McKin...and will Birk stay healthy? I like Taylor at RB...but will he get the carries. WRs are nothing to write home about...but not terrible.

[Lions_or_Die 0]

It is extremely early to even begin to project where any of these teams are headed. In Green Bay, we still don't know if Brett is staying or going. In Detroit, well it's Detroit and Matt Millen is still there and the draft is coming around again for him to show his football smarts once again. Minnesota is completely redone again so who knows. QB and RB in Chicago are the big question marks. Other than that, the Bears should remain the front runner.

 

We know one thing for sure. Kyle Orton's 15 minutes of fame are well past.

[bno70_1 0]

Bears looked real good against the Panthers in the playoffs last year...... Watch out for them!

[Bishop82 61]

Bears looked real good against the Panthers in the playoffs last year...... Watch out for them!

 

I'll take that as a sarcastic remark, however if you recall the Bear's offense in that game was doing rather well. If they can carry that kind of play over to the next season with Grossman and Bradley healthy they can do extremely well.

 

Predictions:

Bears 12-4

Lions 9-7

Vikings 7-9

Packers 5-11

 

Disagree with it if you like.

[Cdub100 3,401]

Lions 11-5

Vik's 8-8

Bears 7-9

Packers 5-11

[uubeee 0]

Lions 11-5

 

 

New QB, New Coach, New System, weak defense.....

[Cdub100 3,401]

New QB, New Coach, New System, weak defense.....

 

I wouldn't call the D weak. We've got good corners our Safeties are average (good if we draft Huff) and a good D-line

 

As for the new QB, Coach and systems those were problems last year that are hopefully fixed.

[uubeee 0]

I wouldn't call the D weak. We've got good corners our Safeties are average (good if we draft Huff) and a good D-line

 

As for the new QB, Coach and systems those were problems last year that are hopefully fixed.

 

My point being that new QB, new Coach, new system "generally" takes time to produce wins.

 

I wouldn't call that D strong either. Yes, Huff would help.

[Cdub100 3,401]

My point being that new QB, new Coach, new system "generally" takes time to produce wins.

 

I wouldn't call that D strong either. Yes, Huff would help.

 

So I wouldn't call it weak you wouldn't call that strong. Sound about average to me.

 

I see what you're saying but it's not like we're throwing a rookie QB in there. Matrz and Kitna have been around for a while so learning a new O should take as long. The WR might struggle a little bit.

[uubeee 0]

So I wouldn't call it weak you wouldn't call that strong. Sound about average to me.

 

I see what you're saying but it's not like we're throwing a rookie QB in there. Matrz and Kitna have been around for a while so learning a new O should take as long. The WR might struggle a little bit.

 

Tough to get 11 wins when learning a new offense with an average QB and an average D.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

The Lions will never win 11 games while Matt Millen is there. I hope they do really bad again, because it was fun watching all the Anti-Millen stuff going on.

[listen2me 23 1,549]

Bears 9-7

Vikings 8-8

Packers 8-8

Lions 6-10

 

assuming Favre comes back....is not id switch the Lions to 7-9 and the packers to 5-11

[Hagy34 0]

I think that the Vikes and Pack did the best job in FA. The lions added guys but people like Kitna and McCown haven't won much either. Jury is out on that I guess. As for predictions I think its a complete toss up. Any team in this division (pending the pack has favre) could take it this season. It really depends on injuries in my mind. Just for the hell of it though --

 

1. Vikes

2. Bears

3. Lions

4. Pack

 

But like I said I really have no idea what to think. As for the uniform thing some guy a star tribune message board claims hes seen the uniforms and that they have a little darker color purple and new style numbers. He wont say much else which I thought was kinda werid, but I'm just passing on what I know.

 

The draft in this division should be a good one. Teams really could go a bunch of ways depending on who goes off the board prior. Best case I see the Pack nabbing AJ Hawk, Lions nabbing Vernon Davis or Huff, the Vikes either go after a power back like Lendale, getting lucky and landing a falling QB or probably the smartest pick for this season taking a LB. As for the bears I was thinking the CArolina Kid that plays DB....can't remember his name. Might be a nice addition to an already tough D.

[swamp dog 0]

I think that the Vikes and Pack did the best job in FA. The lions added guys but people like Kitna and McCown haven't won much either. Jury is out on that I guess. As for predictions I think its a complete toss up. Any team in this division (pending the pack has favre) could take it this season. It really depends on injuries in my mind. Just for the hell of it though --

 

1. Vikes

2. Bears

3. Lions

4. Pack

 

But like I said I really have no idea what to think. As for the uniform thing some guy a star tribune message board claims hes seen the uniforms and that they have a little darker color purple and new style numbers. He wont say much else which I thought was kinda werid, but I'm just passing on what I know.

 

The draft in this division should be a good one. Teams really could go a bunch of ways depending on who goes off the board prior. Best case I see the Pack nabbing AJ Hawk, Lions nabbing Vernon Davis or Huff, the Vikes either go after a power back like Lendale, getting lucky and landing a falling QB or probably the smartest pick for this season taking a LB. As for the bears I was thinking the CArolina Kid that plays DB....can't remember his name. Might be a nice addition to an already tough D.

 

Just curious for clarification purposes: what have the Packers done in free agency that you like (enough so that they're one of the 2-best free agency teams you talk about here)? I'm not here to argue the point; I just want some elaboration on why you think that way.

 

Thanks.

[SmartassBoiler 0]

Just curious for clarification purposes: what have the Packers done in free agency that you like (enough so that they're one of the 2-best free agency teams you talk about here)? I'm not here to argue the point; I just want some elaboration on why you think that way.

 

Thanks.

 

I think he's talking about within the NFC North. The Lions and Bears only made QB moves and really not much else. However, I don't think either team needed to do much in FA and could use their spending money on the draft instead. GB and MIN had more holes to fill.

[donhaas 18]

Packers 11-5

Bears 6-10

Vikings 5-11

Lions 4-12

 

 

Give or take a game or two

[DrJ 0]

DET= B martz in charge of Offense is good. kept some guys not really any big standout guys. and two eager Qb's

 

Pretty generous. This is a team that got like $12 million extra in cap money this season, needed a QB, and went after a journeyman QB and a project - when there was a guy like Brees on the market.

 

This offseason has to be considered a failure for the Lions for that reason alone. To continue to horde their money rather than put forth the best effort to field a winning product is a disservice to those fans.

[Arsenal 3]

I honestly can't see the lions finishing better than .500, but it seems like every year people predict them to be better than they really are.

 

Overall I would say:

1. Bears 11-5

2. Vikings 8-8

3. Packers 6-10

4. Lions 5-11

 

 

I will say though that I think there is a good chance Favre won't end the season as a starter, and if this happens before the last couple games, they'll probably finish last. I think GB has to find a way to get Rodgers some playing time this season and they should be able to difinitively say at the end of the year of they need to find a new QB for the future.

 

 

 

 

 

PS. Lol@Donahas

[swamp dog 0]

Pretty generous. This is a team that got like $12 million extra in cap money this season, needed a QB, and went after a journeyman QB and a project - when there was a guy like Brees on the market.

 

This offseason has to be considered a failure for the Lions for that reason alone. To continue to horde their money rather than put forth the best effort to field a winning product is a disservice to those fans.

 

an argument can be made about who the lions should or shouldn't have targeted in free agency (and frankly, brees shoulder is a major concern--i'm glad they didn't take the chance).

 

that aside, looking at the qbs in the division, i'll gladly take a martz-coached tandem of kitna and mccown over any (yes ANY) qb tandem in the nfcn (assuming favre retires).

 

as i told walter, as late as last season minny and green bay clearly had the cream of the qbs in the division. not even close. now it's pretty much even across the board (at worst). that, coupled with the fact the harrington issue is definitively now resolved in detroit, puts the qb position in detroit in a much, much better place than it was--and furthermore puts it in a place, given the comings and goings elsewhere in the division, of being (arguably) the better of the tandems in the division. and martz is the best qb coach in the division. period.

 

what does that mean for the season? that's a different story. but the above contentions weren't even remotely arguable one short year ago.

 

there are still holes to be filled, for sure (most notably at guard). but i don't know any team that has completely fixed all their problems in this month of march. the bears surely haven't (and tell me why they're sitting on about TWICE the dough of the lions?). i think the additions outweight the subtractions so far in detroit this offseason: gone mooch, tollner, and jauron. in marinelli, martz, and henderson. gone harrington and garcia; in kitna and mccown. the lockerroom will benefit enormously just from those changes.

 

there's the "other side" of your spin

[LunaTick 29]

My recall of last preseason

 

1. Vikes were favored due to improvements in defense, and kicking game etc.

2. Detroit had much going for it on paper, but the question if it could occur on the football field.

3. Bears, it was known they had the defense. Question was their QB. Would he be healthy the full season.

4. Packers were on their way down.

If any from the NFC N were thought to be playoff or SB contenders it was due to the general lack of strength throughout the conference.

 

Outcome.

Vikes imploded early on. Onterio Smith and his detachable ######, Teams enter the season without an OC, Love Boat. Only good is Tice brought in consultants to turn around the season.

Bears, surprising play by a backup QB (orton factor).

Detroit, much promise again not realized. Harrington once again underachieved, but this time was the worst performance to date.

Packers, loss of their Oline and lack of depth (standard operating procedue in GB) at the wr position cost them. Favre, in a tight spot, still tries to carry the team on his own shoulders when he needs to depend upon others. Just cannot achieve when you have less,or believe you have less, around yourself.

 

The FA period to date.

Vikes - no future QB indentity. Surely an area needing to be addressed in the upcoming draft. Safety a major issue. Need to find a future CB. Chester Taylor, is he a starter. Will OSmith be on the roster, odd s are no. Biggest question is the direction of the coaching staff. Childress obsessions with a former player is disturbing to say the least.

Lions - Purge of Harrington, attempting to resurrect a team. Can a new coaching staff fix the Matt Millen experiment assembled. Can the wr's recently drafted be used as an option on the field and not just a threat on preseason paper rosters.

Packers - Slipped again this offseason. Most of the moves were resigning FA players on their own roster. Key loss is their kicker, or not replacing their kicker. GB fans are going to see what it feels to not have a dependeable FGk option. They did add a WR, but without Walker, they need to add 2 to replace him.

 

When in doubt,

Bears favored to repeat division champs.

Packers to repeat in last place.

Q or wildcards is Lions and Vikings. What can the new coaching staffs do with what they have.

At this point, will be somewhere in the middle.

[Walter34 3]

One thing that you should be leary of swamp is the adjustment period for new coaches and new qbs. It might take a full season before they get things running smoothly with the new system. There could be a step back before two steps forward situation.

 

I wouldnt go as far to say that Kitmna/McCown are the best tandem in the division, but your point is valid that there is not a clear better qb situation for any team, favre included.

 

For the upgrade at guard, which one (or is it both) should be replaced? Butler was also sub par and I hear mixed reviews on raiola.

[swamp dog 0]

One thing that you should be leary of swamp is the adjustment period for new coaches and new qbs. It might take a full season before they get things running smoothly with the new system. There could be a step back before two steps forward situation.

 

I wouldnt go as far to say that Kitmna/McCown are the best tandem in the division, but your point is valid that there is not a clear better qb situation for any team, favre included.

 

For the upgrade at guard, which one (or is it both) should be replaced? Butler was also sub par and I hear mixed reviews on raiola.

 

yes, the unknown is the adjustment period with the new coaches. yes, there could be the need of some purging and such. we don't know yet. i *hope* martz can have a positive impact on the offense immediately (and he has had the track record of having an immediate impact).

 

it sounds like woody is going to move to the guard spot next to backus, so that leaves the other guard spot in dire need. they've signed 3 in free agency but none of those guys should considered "the" answer but rather depth. butler was solid; i think criticisms of him are unfounded. raiola certainly underachieved. this will be a key year for him.

[Walter34 3]

So what happened to Demulling?

[swamp dog 0]

So what happened to Demulling?

 

he royally sucked last year. he was just putrid. there are rumors he could be cut. then again, martz and beightol might want to make up their own minds about things.

 

i hate saying this because it's a big copout, but it is stuff martz and beightol have been saying: the line schemes last year were clusterfocks. the new coaches claim they'll streamline it and make it work better. now talent is talent is talent (or the lack of, too). just reporting what they're claiming.

 

because of that, you might see some of these guys get a second look (like demulling)...but god was he terrible last year.

[SmartassBoiler 0]

he royally sucked last year. he was just putrid. there are rumors he could be cut. then again, martz and beightol might want to make up their own minds about things.

 

i hate saying this because it's a big copout, but it is stuff martz and beightol have been saying: the line schemes last year were clusterfocks. the new coaches claim they'll streamline it and make it work better. now talent is talent is talent (or the lack of, too). just reporting what they're claiming.

 

because of that, you might see some of these guys get a second look (like demulling)...but god was he terrible last year.

 

Wasn't he quite effective with the Colts? If so, maybe it was the scheme, at least for him.