2 Duke Lacrosse Players Surrender to Authorities

[Jeremy 0]

 

I'm saying I don't know if this incident has racial implications or not. But Jesse sticking his nose into situations like this (and in Fumbleweeds example) without all the facts just makes him look foolish and hurts his cause, which I ASSUME is an end to racism. I wonder sometimes if that is really what he's after.

[Electric Mayhem 35]

I'm saying I don't know if this incident has racial implications or not. But Jesse sticking his nose into situations like this (and in Fumbleweeds example) without all the facts just makes him look foolish and hurts his cause, which I ASSUME is an end to racism. I wonder sometimes if that is really what he's after.

 

It's all just reward response. As long as people buy into his tirades and applaud his actions he will continue to do it. If the black community started to criticize his tactics and/or message, he would change his tune right quick I'm sure.

[RLLD 4,232]

IMO, people like Jessie and Sharpton do far more to continue racism than to eliminate it. If racisim ever goes away, these guys no longer have a job. For them to constantly point out the racial lines in cases that were not racially motivated does nothing but make race the central issue. If they seriously wanted to elimiate racism, they would be trying hard to NOT make race the focal point. Blacks will hate whites when they are constantly told that the crime was based on race. Whites will constantly resent blacks when race is introduced into something that race played no part in.

The sooner the likes of Jackson and Sharpton go away, the sooner the issue of racism can be addressed.

 

 

Sharpton, Jackson, et al, feed on the notion of racism. Without racism they are meaningless, and since there are few true instances of racism they have to look for every opportunity to assert racism into an event in order to remain relevant. The summation of this effort is the misconception that racism is rampant, and any time something bad happens to a black person it is due to racism.

 

The Muslims aer master of this as well, but they got their people thinking the world is out to get them and if they off themselves they get bunch of virgins. Same principle, a few smart guys taking advantage of a large group of morons...

[pingpong 0]

Here is a decent timeline of the events of the case. If I am a defense attorney, I have tons of holes to poke, as well as a 911 call after the dancing outlining motive for raising the rape accusation. There is no chance these kids are convicted of rape.

 

 

2 p.m.: Bissey sees at least five men standing in the backyard of 610 Buchanan drinking beer.

 

4 p.m.: Bissey sees several young men drinking in the backyard.

 

8:30 p.m.: The accuser is called by her escort agency and told to report to the Buchanan Boulevard house that night.

 

11:30 p.m.: Bissey, after being out for a while, returns to his apartment . Several young men are gathered near the back door of 610 Buchanan.

 

11:50 p.m.: Bissey, on his porch, notices two women walk to the back of the house, where a man greets them.

 

Midnight: Bissey sees the two women go into the house.

 

12:20 TO 12:30 a.m.: Tuesday, March 14, Bissey hears voices in the alley beside the house. At least two men are discussing money, one saying, "It's only $100." Bissey sees a man leaning into the window of a car parked outside the house. One of the women he saw earlier gets out of the car and says she needs to get her shoe. She walks to the back door of the house.

 

Between 12:45 AND 1 A.M.: Bissey sees a car, which at least one of the women had been in earlier, speed away. One man standing across from the house, on the Duke campus, shouts, "... Thank your grandpa for my nice cotton shirt." Several men come out of the house; Bissey hears at least one of them say, "Guys, let's go," repeatedly. Within minutes, there is silence. The lights at 610 Buchanan are dim, and no one is outside.

 

12:53 a.m.: An unidentified woman calls 911 and says a man near 610 Buchanan called her and a friend a racial slur.

 

12:55 a.m.: Police arrive and see evidence of a party at the house, but no stragglers. No one answers the door, and police can't find the woman who called 911.

 

1:06 a.m.: Police leave.

 

1:22 a.m. A security guard calls 911, reporting that a woman is in a parked car at the Kroger grocery store on Hillsborough Road and won't get out. The guard says the woman appears to be intoxicated and is hardly speaking or moving.

 

1:32 a.m.: Police arrive at Kroger. They talk to the woman, who reports that she was raped at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd. She is taken to Duke Hospital for tests, and a nurse finds evidence consistent with an assault.

[Electric Mayhem 35]

I have tons of holes to poke

 

must be nice

[Jeremy 0]

Sharpton, Jackson, et al, feed on the notion of racism. Without racism they are meaningless, and since there are few true instances of racism they have to look for every opportunity to assert racism into an event in order to remain relevant. The summation of this effort is the misconception that racism is rampant, and any time something bad happens to a black person it is due to racism.

 

I disagree that there isn't much racism anymore. I think it's still fairly rampant. People are just not shouting it from rooftops so much anymore. I've seen plenty of it on this and other message boards. When people can hide behind their keyboards anonymously, you can see that there's still a lot of work to be done.

 

But I agree that Jesse Jackson makes it worse rather than better.

[hoytdwow 202]

Here is a decent timeline of the events of the case. If I am a defense attorney, I have tons of holes to poke, as well as a 911 call after the dancing outlining motive for raising the rape accusation. There is no chance these kids are convicted of rape.

2 p.m.: Bissey sees at least five men standing in the backyard of 610 Buchanan drinking beer.

 

4 p.m.: Bissey sees several young men drinking in the backyard.

 

8:30 p.m.: The accuser is called by her escort agency and told to report to the Buchanan Boulevard house that night.

 

11:30 p.m.: Bissey, after being out for a while, returns to his apartment . Several young men are gathered near the back door of 610 Buchanan.

 

11:50 p.m.: Bissey, on his porch, notices two women walk to the back of the house, where a man greets them.

 

Midnight: Bissey sees the two women go into the house.

 

12:20 TO 12:30 a.m.: Tuesday, March 14, Bissey hears voices in the alley beside the house. At least two men are discussing money, one saying, "It's only $100." Bissey sees a man leaning into the window of a car parked outside the house. One of the women he saw earlier gets out of the car and says she needs to get her shoe. She walks to the back door of the house.

 

Between 12:45 AND 1 A.M.: Bissey sees a car, which at least one of the women had been in earlier, speed away. One man standing across from the house, on the Duke campus, shouts, "... Thank your grandpa for my nice cotton shirt." Several men come out of the house; Bissey hears at least one of them say, "Guys, let's go," repeatedly. Within minutes, there is silence. The lights at 610 Buchanan are dim, and no one is outside.

 

12:53 a.m.: An unidentified woman calls 911 and says a man near 610 Buchanan called her and a friend a racial slur.

 

12:55 a.m.: Police arrive and see evidence of a party at the house, but no stragglers. No one answers the door, and police can't find the woman who called 911.

 

1:06 a.m.: Police leave.

 

1:22 a.m. A security guard calls 911, reporting that a woman is in a parked car at the Kroger grocery store on Hillsborough Road and won't get out. The guard says the woman appears to be intoxicated and is hardly speaking or moving.

 

1:32 a.m.: Police arrive at Kroger. They talk to the woman, who reports that she was raped at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd. She is taken to Duke Hospital for tests, and a nurse finds evidence consistent with an assault.

 

 

link?

[Toro 1]

I disagree that there isn't much racism anymore. I think it's still fairly rampant. People are just not shouting it from rooftops so much anymore. I've seen plenty of it on this and other message boards. When people can hide behind their keyboards anonymously, you can see that there's still a lot of work to be done.

 

But I agree that Jesse Jackson makes it worse rather than better.

 

While I can agree that there are more racist discussions, jokes and other racist behavior on the message boards and behind closed doors, actual racism that does not allow a certain race the same freedom and equality as others has been reduced significantly.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I love how both sides go back and forth when very little is known. This is why we have "innocent until proven guilty" and it applies to both the accused and the accuser.

 

We don't know anything at this point in time about what did and did not happen, so formulating opinions hurts the situation.

 

- There was not a DNA match. Means something here. The D.A. is saying that 75-80% of the time, there is no DNA match. That is crap. The fact of the matter is that they don't ask for a DNA many times because they don't need it and it is expensive. The D.A. is using misleading statistics to further his cause

 

- The defense is saying that pictures show that she was smiling and appeared to be drunk. Means nothing and may actually hurt their case if it is true that they incapicitated her by slipping something into her drink or getting her drunk.

 

- The defense is saying that the accused was a stripper with a sordid past. Pertinent to the trial, but should not be part of the "court of public opinion".

 

Let's let it play out and not assume that individual pieces with prove guilt or innocence at this time. Both the D.A. and defense are posturing to potentially sway a jury pool that has yet to be picked.

[surferskin 30]

link?

 

Duke Rape Timeline

[brinett9 0]

The whole thing is gonna hinge on testimony of others at the party, including the other dancer.

 

We know what the accuser is going to say and we know what the accused will say. They'll likely cancel each other out. It doesn't seem like there's much physical evidence that supports either side.

 

Of course we aren't privy to the evidence that was presented to the grand jury, so who knows what evidence may exist.

[pingpong 0]

link?

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/424229.html

[Strike 5,555]

I disagree that there isn't much racism anymore. I think it's still fairly rampant. People are just not shouting it from rooftops so much anymore. I've seen plenty of it on this and other message boards. When people can hide behind their keyboards anonymously, you can see that there's still a lot of work to be done.

 

But I agree that Jesse Jackson makes it worse rather than better.

 

A post on a message board that involves race is not racism. In the real world I see a lot more racism from blacks towards whites than the other way around. Jesse Jackson heads that list BTW. HTH

[RLLD 4,232]

While I can agree that there are more racist discussions, jokes and other racist behavior on the message boards and behind closed doors, actual racism that does not allow a certain race the same freedom and equality as others has been reduced significantly.

 

True. Though its so very easy to attribute ones troubles to skin color, much easier than accepting resposibility. We have been creating a society where nothing is "your fault" for years. This racism BS is jsut another facet to that emerging theme.

 

" I got bad service at a restaurant because I am black" ......

" I got pulled over because I am black" .....

 

Its the biggest bunch of BS. JMHO

[Four More Beers 0]

In the real world I see a lot more racism from blacks towards whites than the other way around.

 

Try moving to Florida. I hardly go a day without hearing some redneck spout his vile towards black people. Some folks in my neighborhood raise Confederate flags on their flagpoles every morning just so people know where they stand.

 

Back when I used to work in restaurants there were several that never had a black employee while I was there and I knew they never would. At one BBQ place I worked at in Pine Hills I found out that most of the staff was literally in the KKK.

 

If you think there is more black racism against whites than vice versa I think you lead a sheltered life. There's more white racists in America than there are black people.

[Mack 1 6]

I hear you, but couldn't "black folks" as you put it, choose someone to do that who is a little more rational and respectful of all people.........

The masses don't choose their "spokesmen" per se. Jesse has been "fighting the system" for about 40 years, so by default he's the man.

[Strike 5,555]

Try moving to Florida. I hardly go a day without hearing some redneck spout his vile towards black people. Some folks in my neighborhood raise Confederate flags on their flagpoles every morning just so people know where they stand.

 

Back when I used to work in restaurants there were several that never had a black employee while I was there and I knew they never would. At one BBQ place I worked at in Pine Hills I found out that most of the staff was literally in the KKK.

 

If you think there is more black racism against whites than vice versa I think you lead a sheltered life. There's more white racists in America than there are black people.

 

Yeah, I live a very sheltered life here in Los Angeles, probably the most diverse area in the country.

 

 

The masses don't choose their "spokesmen" per se. Jesse has been "fighting the system" for about 40 years, so by default he's the man.

 

The only "system" Jesse knows is the one where if there's a TV camera around he's involved; if there isn't he doesn't care. Ever notice how he never gets involved in an issue until it's major news. He's usually 2-3 days late as he watches things develop on TV and then all of a sudden he's on the scene. Yeah, he's a great role model for young black kids, no really he is.....LOL

[Jeremy 0]

A post on a message board that involves race is not racism. In the real world I see a lot more racism from blacks towards whites than the other way around. Jesse Jackson heads that list BTW. HTH

 

Yeah, I'm not just talking white towards black. Racism goes in all directions. I won't speculate on which group does it more. I also think most people who are racists don't realize or acknowledge that they are that way.

 

Not every post on a message board contain racist comments, but there many that do.

[Mack 1 6]

and since there are few true instances of racism.... the misconception that racism is rampant...

 

Wow, how naive. Fewer instances of racism? Racism is not rampant? Amazing. Spoken like someone in the know.

 

Racism is as rampant today as it was 20, 30 years ago. That Texas incident where a group of white guys dragged a black man to his death after tying him up to the back of their pick-up?

 

The sodomizing of the immigrant in New York by a couple of white NYPD cops?

 

An unarmed black man shot more than 40 times by overzealous cops in NYC?

 

The harrassment (myself included) of innocent young black guys driving nice cars or trucks through predominantly white neighborhoods? Etc., etc, etc.

 

Why, these situations are simply fig newtons of our imagination; racism's not rampant.

 

clueless

[Jeremy 0]

While I can agree that there are more racist discussions, jokes and other racist behavior on the message boards and behind closed doors, actual racism that does not allow a certain race the same freedom and equality as others has been reduced significantly.

 

I guess I was using racism is the generic sense that many believe one race to be superior to others. The discrimination that comes from racism has been reduced, I'll agree. But it's inevitable that racism will lead to some discrimination still.

[Strike 5,555]

The harrassment (myself included) of innocent young black guys driving nice cars or trucks through predominantly white neighborhoods? Etc., etc, etc.

 

wow, you're black? I never would have guessed

[Mack 1 6]

....actual racism that does not allow a certain race the same freedom and equality as others has been reduced significantly.

 

This statement would never be uttered by a black person, for they know and understand that we fight racism EVERYDAY. Just because you don't hear about an issue on the news doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

Significantly reduced. What a complete and utter joke. Yeah, sure blacks hold positions of power we probably couldn't imagine 25 years ago, but again, that doesn't mean racism is being reduced in the process.

 

I'd love for some of you white folks to walk in the shoes of a black man for a week. No, make that a month. I'd be interested to hear what your response would be relative to your encounter with racism and prejudice.

[RLLD 4,232]

Wow, how naive. Fewer instances of racism? Racism is not rampant? Amazing. Spoken like someone in the know.

 

Racism is as rampant today as it was 20, 30 years ago. That Texas incident where a group of white guys dragged a black man to his death after tying him up to the back of their pick-up?

 

The sodomizing of the immigrant in New York by a couple of white NYPD cops?

 

An unarmed black man shot more than 40 times by overzealous cops in NYC?

 

The harrassment (myself included) of innocent young black guys driving nice cars or trucks through predominantly white neighborhoods? Etc., etc, etc.

 

Why, these situations are simply fig newtons of our imagination; racism's not rampant.

 

clueless

 

 

Wow, a small list of instances of potential race-oriented activity = rampant

 

moronic

[Snuff 10]

I'd love for some of you white folks to walk in the shoes of a black man for a week. No, make that a month. I'd be interested to hear what your response would be relative to your encounter with racism and prejudice.

 

Maybe then we'll be able to get a good job ahead of a person who is actually qualified for it!

[Strike 5,555]

I'd love for some of you white folks to walk in the shoes of a black man for a week. No, make that a month. I'd be interested to hear what your response would be relative to your encounter with racism and prejudice.

 

I'd just love to have a black man's schlong for one night......

[D_House 0]

I'd just love to have a black man's schlong for one night......

HAHAHAHAHAHA h0m0!

[RLLD 4,232]

I'd just love to have a black man's schlong for one night......

 

[Mack 1 6]

Wow, a small list of instances of potential race-oriented activity = rampant

 

moronic

Sure, these instances aren't a cross-section of the epidemic as a whole; what on earth was I thinking.

[Toro 1]

This statement would never be uttered by a black person, for they know and understand that we fight racism EVERYDAY. Just because you don't hear about an issue on the news doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

Significantly reduced. What a complete and utter joke. Yeah, sure blacks hold positions of power we probably couldn't imagine 25 years ago, but again, that doesn't mean racism is being reduced in the process.

 

I'd love for some of you white folks to walk in the shoes of a black man for a week. No, make that a month. I'd be interested to hear what your response would be relative to your encounter with racism and prejudice.

 

I am not quite sure what you are getting at here. Can you please discuss some instances that are fairly widespread about how black people are systematically being repressed?

 

And don't start posting about crime here and crime there because for every one that you post, I can post one about a white person being attacked by a black person.

[Mack 1 6]

Maybe then we'll be able to get a good job ahead of a person who is actually qualified for it!

AA

[TerrySilver 0]

The harrassment (myself included) of innocent young black guys driving nice cars or trucks through predominantly white neighborhoods? Etc., etc, etc.

 

 

you may be shocked to hear this, but i'm white and cops have harassed me and pulled me over too when i'm driving around nice neighborhoods.

 

 

the fact is that cops harass everyone driving through a nice area that they dont know . thats just what they do

[Electric Mayhem 35]

Being racist is silly. If everyone grew up in a community with equak numbers of all races, no one would think twice about it. Those that live in diverse areas don't give a crap about race (for the most part). It's the areas where there is a geographical concentration of different races that it is the biggest problem, especially when coupled with intolerance and racism handed down from one geration to the next.

 

Every race has those that are violent, cruel, stupid as well as intelligent, caring and kind. Too many times traits of individuals are generalized to race rather than economic and sicial situations. It's ridiculous. i think the only way racism will end is when no one mentions it for a generation so no one has any reason to think anyone else is different. I don't see that happening any times in the future, thanks to both those like JJ that weild racism like a sword, and every Mother, Father or peer that teaches hatred based on race to those around them. It's really too bad.

[Strike 5,555]

Being racist is silly. If everyone grew up in a community with equak numbers of all races, no one would think twice about it. Those that live in diverse areas don't give a crap about race (for the most part). It's the areas where there is a geographical concentration of different races that it is the biggest problem, especially when coupled with intolerance and racism handed down from one geration to the next.

 

Every race has those that are violent, cruel, stupid as well as intelligent, caring and kind. Too many times traits of individuals are generalized to race rather than economic and sicial situations. It's ridiculous. i think the only way racism will end is when no one mentions it for a generation so no one has any reason to think anyone else is different. I don't see that happening any times in the future, thanks to both those like JJ that weild racism like a sword, and every Mother, Father or peer that teaches hatred based on race to those around them. It's really too bad.

 

Great Post

[Mack 1 6]

I am not quite sure what you are getting at here. Can you please discuss some instances that are fairly widespread about how black people are systematically being repressed?

 

And don't start posting about crime here and crime there because for every one that you post, I can post one about a white person being attacked by a black person.

 

Crime here and crime there , as you put it, is what this conversation is all about. Racism is not defined as a widespread systematic repression of people. It could be an encounter at the local watering hole that doesn't make the evening news, but still be considered "a racist incident." Or it could be something more sinister and widespread, like housing discrimination, racist hiring practices, and treatment from law enforcement officers, etc.

[KSB2424 3,148]

 

I don't care about racism or not with this case. A stripper with a criminal history said she was raped, but there is no DNA in or on her body, or under her fingernails. There is no trace of latex, spermicide, or any residue of a condom. the DA was overzealous in the beginning, implied race into the crime, got the media and local public all stirred up and now is out on a limb and can't find his way back.

 

This trial is a waste of tax money, and if I was those lax players, once this is done, I would sue the fock out of somebody.

[Jeremy 0]

Being racist is silly. If everyone grew up in a community with equak numbers of all races, no one would think twice about it. Those that live in diverse areas don't give a crap about race (for the most part). It's the areas where there is a geographical concentration of different races that it is the biggest problem, especially when coupled with intolerance and racism handed down from one geration to the next.

 

Every race has those that are violent, cruel, stupid as well as intelligent, caring and kind. Too many times traits of individuals are generalized to race rather than economic and sicial situations. It's ridiculous. i think the only way racism will end is when no one mentions it for a generation so no one has any reason to think anyone else is different. I don't see that happening any times in the future, thanks to both those like JJ that weild racism like a sword, and every Mother, Father or peer that teaches hatred based on race to those around them. It's really too bad.

 

There will always be prejudice of one sort or another no matter you do. People that don't think much of themselves have a hard time elevating themselves, so they'll take a group of people and say "at least I'm not _____________" (fill in the blank: gay, black, muslim, etc.). If you can't bring yourself up, bring another person down.

 

Gay people and Muslims make good targets right now.

[Toro 1]

Crime here and crime there , as you put it, is what this conversation is all about. Racism is not defined as a widespread systematic repression of people. It could be an encounter at the local watering hole that doesn't make the evening news, but still be considered "a racist incident." Or it could be something more sinister and widespread, like housing discrimination, racist hiring practices, and treatment from law enforcement officers, etc.

 

Housing descrimination? While I agree with you that there are instances of this sort of thing happening, typically, at least in my opinion, when purchasing a house, you only need good credit or money.

 

Racist hiring practices? Again, isolated instances of this occur, but they are usually under the scope of a single manager.

 

Treatment by law enforcement officers? Once again, I believe that this is more on the side isolated instances.

 

And for all of these, they can usually be attributed to a single person or small group of people doing something illegal and immoral.

[surferskin 30]

 

I don't care about racism or not with this case. A stripper with a criminal history said she was raped, but there is no DNA in or on her body, or under her fingernails. There is no trace of latex, spermicide, or any residue of a condom. the DA was overzealous in the beginning, implied race into the crime, got the media and local public all stirred up and now is out on a limb and can't find his way back.

 

This trial is a waste of tax money, and if I was those lax players, once this is done, I would sue the fock out of somebody.

[brinett9 0]

I agree that after the election the charges will be quietly dropped on this unprosecutable cluster fock.

 

Of course some kids are gonna spend time in jail and have their lives violently disrupted until then, but why would a politician give a crap about that if he can get a few extra votes?

[Guest xmann]

I agree that after the election the charges will be quietly dropped on this unprosecutable cluster fock.

 

Of course some kids are gonna spend time in jail and have their lives violently disrupted until then, but why would a politician give a crap about that if he can get a few extra votes?

 

They already made bail. No jail time yet....This case, as it is now, won't get past the prelim! And the other guy is right, these kids should sue everyone they can for their names being ruined by a gold digging hoe and vote mongering DA!