Spike Lee's "When the Levees Break"

[RLLD 3,563]

There is hilarity in this thread

[Recidivist 1]

There is hilarity in this thread

 

 

knottyhead = Seagram's Gin????

[wiffleball 4,686]

The one aspect that I'm sure Spike won't address at all is that the individuals themselves have to take a huge amount of responsibility for the situations they were in. Post-mortems have found that virtually all of those without transportation were offered transportation initially - and refused it. As a result, there was a much bigger humanitarian disaster than should ever have been.

[RLLD 3,563]

knottyhead = Seagram's Gin????

 

yeah

[torridjoe 39]

indecisive? that's nice...I would hope it is explained that the Gov of a state is in charge of such situations by law and therefore this apparent

'lack of response' is bullshat. The feds can give what she requests and they can't take over the situation unless she gives up her authority to them.

 

blame?

25% Blanco who would not let the feds take over sooner, took days to make critical(yet easy) decisions

25% for Nagin's pathetic planning and those who could have evacuated but didn't

20% local and state bureaucracy who ignored the pending doom for so many years

20% FEMA for such shatty organization and underestimating the destruction

10% Bush who while doing what he was supposed to, should have come in sooner and taken over whether that beyotch Blanco requested that or not

 

Blanco did it by the book, it was determined. The feds had both the authority and the request to move at any time. They did not.

 

Chertoff and Bush get 90% of the blame on Katrina's ultimate failure, which was not protecting against the storm but getting people tended to and helped. They were told help was needed, and they failed to provide it.

[Toro 1]

Blanco did it by the book, it was determined. The feds had both the authority and the request to move at any time. They did not.

 

Chertoff and Bush get 90% of the blame on Katrina's ultimate failure, which was not protecting against the storm but getting people tended to and helped. They were told help was needed, and they failed to provide it.

 

So it is the federal government's responsibility to evacuate people that refused to be evacuated?

[torridjoe 39]

Seagram's Gin? If so, I hadn't heard that expression in nearly 10 years

One other observation: Lee gives some credibility to the theory that the Feds blew up certain sections of the levee to flood poorer (black) neighborhoods and protect wealthier (white) neighborhoods. It seems he could have debunked this theory if he wanted to present the truth, but as I stated previously, no documentary is truly objective.

 

When? He didn't do it in last night's episodes. After all the interview segments on it, the impression I got from him was that there was nothing to it.

[RLLD 3,563]

So it is the federal government's responsibility to evacuate people that refused to be evacuated?

 

Well.....

 

Option 1 was evacuate everyone, spend millions of dollars, then have the people claim they were being forced from their homes because of their color.

 

Option 2 was spend no money, then have the people claim they were being forced to stay because of their color.

 

 

[torridjoe 39]

So it is the federal government's responsibility to evacuate people that refused to be evacuated?

 

In this case it was, yes. And that doesn't even address the responsibility to feed, shelter and otherwise assist those who sought temporary shelter.

[RLLD 3,563]

In this case it was, yes. And that doesn't even address the responsibility to feed, shelter and otherwise assist those who sought temporary shelter.

 

Welcome!

[Toro 1]

In this case it was, yes. And that doesn't even address the responsibility to feed, shelter and otherwise assist those who sought temporary shelter.

 

So you are in favor of forcably removing people from their homes using federal soldiers in times of crisis as determined by the president of the United States?

[RLLD 3,563]

So you are in favor of forcably removing people from their homes using federal soldiers?

 

Dood, why did you waste the money shot up front....

[Toro 1]

Dood, why did you waste the money shot up front....

 

 

sorry, I got excited.

[torridjoe 39]

So you are in favor of forcably removing people from their homes using federal soldiers in times of crisis as determined by the president of the United States?

 

the crisis wasn't determined by the President. The city was already under mandatory evacuation.

[RLLD 3,563]

the crisis wasn't determined by the President. The city was already under mandatory evacuation.

 

 

See, if you put it right out there he will never answer the question and you dont get one of those really crazy answers.

[Recidivist 1]

When? He didn't do it in last night's episodes. After all the interview segments on it, the impression I got from him was that there was nothing to it.

 

By showing more interviews of people who supported the theory than interviews of people who disputed it, one could get the impression that it was possible the US gov't. blew up portions of the levees. Also, Lee recounted the 1920s flood and how the levees were purposely demolished then (for the same reason). This in itself suggests that perhaps it happened againg in 2005.

 

If the theory is readily debunkable it would be better to present it as such than to give legs to a bogus conspiracy theory. But perhaps Lee's agenda is not to make an objective documentary.

[Toro 1]

the crisis wasn't determined by the President. The city was already under mandatory evacuation.

 

But you were just blaming the President for not evacuating the people?

[Bert 1,110]

But you were just blaming the President for not evacuating the people?

 

 

And round and round the Torrid-go-round goes.

[BMoney 0]

how long did it take before flood waters rose higher than mars blackmons head?...did he save Mike?

 

where u at, mike?...

 

if NO proved anything..is that the LA crew was not fit for a city like NYC, as guiliani was...

 

thankfully, guiliani was in charge when 9-11 hit..

 

in a perfect world, its true..people NEEDED to be removed..

 

but how do you dictate who wants to be moved and who wants to die with their homes?...

 

there were a lot of people on the weather channel the day before it hit, saying, im not movin, i gots to work tomarrah...

 

soldiers wouldnt have been able to forcefully remove many without gunfire returned..is that risk worth it?...

 

the people know the crime level..they knew if they left, theyd be robbed..of course life is more important..but we dealt with different people..

 

and the gators ate well that weekend...

[Cruzer 1,993]

Are you serious you don't think New Orleans wasn't worse? Hundreds of millions were displaced, thousands were killed. It crippled the economy of at least three states and the insurance industry. The list goes on and on.

Hundereds of millions displaced? Not according to this.

 

And it's quite possible Katrina was worse, but by no means was it 100% worse as you claim. Figures in the link provided suggest Katrina cost about $75 billion, 9/11 is estimated to be near $30 billion. But like Katrina, the ripple effects of 9/11 reached far and wide. If you remember, the entire country (and parts of the world) were economically crippled. And although people didn't have their homes destroyed, many lost them and everything else they had bcoz of the economic fallout. Then there's the social impact felt by 9/11 - not sure anybody outside the gulf coast has had their lives socially affected.

[torridjoe 39]

But you were just blaming the President for not evacuating the people?

 

What does that have to do with the crisis already being declared?

And I more accurately blamed the President for not ASSISTING the people.

[Toro 1]

And I more accurately blamed the President for not ASSISTING the people.

 

What? They didn't leave. What kind of assistance was he going to provide for someone that didn't want the assistance?

 

You say he should have got the people out but they didn't want to leave. What did you want him to do? Provide tax cuts to people who left?

[torridjoe 39]

thankfully, guiliani was in charge when 9-11 hit..

 

Guiliani had to deal with 16 blocks.

He got to go home at night to his own house.

Communications systems were operative.

While depleted, police and fire were active and coordinated.

The feds arrived almost immediately in response.

 

He had it a little easier.

[Bert 1,110]

You say he should have got the people out but they didn't want to leave. What did you want him to do? Provide tax cuts to people who left?

They already don't pay tax maybe bigger welfare checks?

[torridjoe 39]

What? They didn't leave. What kind of assistance was he going to provide for someone that didn't want the assistance?

 

You say he should have got the people out but they didn't want to leave. What did you want him to do? Provide tax cuts to people who left?

 

When did I say he should have gotten people out before the storm? Never.

 

Assistance--you know, food, shelter, clothing. Who are you saying was refusing assistance?

[kilroy69 1,032]

Spike lee is a piece of sh!t that gets away with being a blatant racist because he is black and we all know black folk can't be racist.

[Guest Davaco]

What? They didn't leave. What kind of assistance was he going to provide for someone that didn't want the assistance?

 

You say he should have got the people out but they didn't want to leave. What did you want him to do? Provide tax cuts to people who left?

 

the people that stayed did so becasue they couldnt leave. they dont have anywhere to go, nor the financial means to go to nowhere. this is why they rely on public transportation.

 

also, after the storm hit is when the federal government ended up with egg on its face. Bush stated "no one could anticipate the breach of the levies", bullcrap, the times picuneye anticipated the levies would break years ago, and they did a drill of the exact same thing happening.

 

plus it took 4-5 days before food and water showed up, all while condi rice was out shopping for shoes, and ###### cheney was out fly fishing. Bush was spinning on Iraq and Michael Chertoff was at the CDC

[Toro 1]

the people that stayed did so becasue they couldnt leave. they dont have anywhere to go, nor the financial means to go to nowhere. this is why they rely on public transportation.

 

Who's fault is that? (The answer is "their own".)

 

also, after the storm hit is when the federal government ended up with egg on its face. Bush stated "no one could anticipate the breach of the levies", bullcrap, the times picuneye anticipated the levies would break years ago, and they did a drill of the exact same thing happening.

 

So who's fault is it the levees didn't hold? Also, who the fock decides it's a good idea to live in a town below sea level that might get a hurricane. I am not saying the people shouldn't live there, but I also expect them to not act surprised when they lose everything. It's like the people who rebuild their houses after it floods without making any improvements and it floods again. What do you expect?

 

plus it took 4-5 days before food and water showed up, all while condi rice was out shopping for shoes, and ###### cheney was out fly fishing. Bush was spinning on Iraq and Michael Chertoff was at the CDC

 

This is just stupid.

[Guest tiki_gods]

Hundereds of millions displaced?

 

You ask this like you're not sure?

 

Then there's the social impact felt by 9/11...

 

Whatever the fock that means. Jews who lost their bagels in the debris?

 

- not sure anybody outside the gulf coast has had their lives socially affected.

 

Yeah...there wasn't an American exodus of people from the Gulf Coast having to relocate schools for their kids or find new jobs because of the massive damage to all the places they worked. Families of victims having to take them in.

 

Thank God Bush signed the "no child left behind" otherwise people like you would be FOCKED.

 

 

at least 1000 more americans were murdered on 9-11 that were killed as result of katrina.

 

HTH

 

Like the thousands politicians left to die in their homes and murdered by their own government? Oh yeah, the National Guard was over in Iraq restoring democracy to people who wipe their as$es with their hands.

[Bert 1,110]

the people that stayed did so becasue they couldnt leave. they dont have anywhere to go, nor the financial means to go to nowhere. this is why they rely on public transportation.

 

Why the hell didn't the Mayor of the city do anything about this problem? He should know his city and the population of the city better than anyone. Why is Ray not being held accountable? He knew these people had no transportation but he did nothing to have them removed prior to the storm.

 

also, after the storm hit is when the federal government ended up with egg on its face. Bush stated "no one could anticipate the breach of the levies", bullcrap, the times picuneye anticipated the levies would break years ago, and they did a drill of the exact same thing happening.

 

And why didn't the Mayor have shelters set up with food and water. He knew the levies could be breached by a hurricane and knew he had citizens that could not leave but he did nothing prior to the storm to prepare for the devastation other than order a delayed evacuation.

 

plus it took 4-5 days before food and water showed up, all while condi rice was out shopping for shoes, and ###### cheney was out fly fishing. Bush was spinning on Iraq and Michael Chertoff was at the CDC

 

And where was Ray? It wasn't NO because he got the hell out. I remember now he was on the radio lying and denying and blaming the whitey governor, the whitey president and every other whitey political official he could think of.

 

The federal government dropped the ball with out question but the situation was as bad as it was because of the piss poor planning by the corrupt local government.

[GettnHuge 1]

Blanco did it by the book, it was determined. The feds had both the authority and the request to move at any time. They did not.

 

September 5, 2005

 

In a harried, fast-moving interview with CNN’s Soledad O’Brien this morning, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin had many words of praise for President Bush, while pointing much blame at Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco:

 

Nagin>> I got promises too. I can't stand any more promises. I don't want to hear any more promises. I want to see stuff done. That's why I'm so happy the president came down here because I think they were feeding him a line of bull also. They were telling him things weren’t as bad as it was, he came down and saw it and he put a general on the field. His name is general Honore. When he hit the field, we started to see action. What the state was doing, I don't friggin' know but I tell you, I am pissed. It wasn't adequate. The president and the governor sat down. Air force one, I said, Mr. President, Madam governor, you two have to get in sync. If you don't get in sync, more people are going to die.

 

O’Brien>> What date was this?

 

N>> I don't know.

 

O>> When did you say that?

 

N>> Whenever air force one was here.

 

O>> Okay.

 

N>> And this is after I called him on the telephone two days earlier. And I said, Mr. President, madam governor, you two need to get together on the same page because the lack of coordination people are dying in my city.

 

That's two days ago? Easement I don't know the exact date. They both shook their head, said yeah. I said great. I said everybody in this room is getting ready to leave. There was senators and his cabinet people, you name it, they were there. Generals. I said everybody right now, we're leaving. These two people need to sit in a room together and make a doggone decision right now.

 

O>> Was that done?

 

N>> The president looked at me. I think he was a little surprised. He said, no, you guys stay here. We're going to another section of the plane and we're going to make a decision. He called me in that office after that and he said, Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor. I said -- I don't remember exactly what -- two options. I was ready to move today. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision.

 

O>> You told me the president told you the governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision?

 

N>> Yes.

 

O>> Regarding what? Bringing troops?

 

N>> Whatever they had discussed. As far as what the -- I was advocating a clear chain of command. So that we could get resources flowing in the right places.

 

O>> The governor said no?

 

N>> She said she needed 24 hours to make a decision. It would have been great if we could of left air force one, walked outside, and told the world that we had this all worked out. It didn't happen. And more people died.

 

 

HTH

[mighty_thor 115]

Torrid's response to this:

So it is the federal government's responsibility to evacuate people that refused to be evacuated?

 

was:

In this case it was, yes. And that doesn't even address the responsibility to feed, shelter and otherwise assist those who sought temporary shelter.

 

 

then he said:

 

When did I say he should have gotten people out before the storm? Never.

 

Assistance--you know, food, shelter, clothing. Who are you saying was refusing assistance?

 

isn't evacuating people the same as getting them out?

[Cruzer 1,993]

You ask this like you're not sure?

you said HUNDERED OF MILLIONS were displaced by katrina, i posed it in a question fishing for something substantial to support that claim. i have not found anything remotely close to that number - what is your source?

[mighty_thor 115]

you said HUNDERED OF MILLIONS were displaced by katrina, i posed it in a question fishing for something substantial to support that claim. i have not found anything remotely close to that number - what is your source?

 

Gotta agree with you there. I don't know how many were displaced but when you say hundreds of millions then you are talking about at least 200 milion people. I would bet that is a little exagerated.

[GettnHuge 1]

nothing yet, Meathead?

 

He called me in that office after that and he said, Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor. I said -- I don't remember exactly what -- two options. I was ready to move today. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision.

 

O>> You told me the president told you the governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision?

 

N>> Yes.

 

O>> Regarding what? Bringing troops?

 

N>> Whatever they had discussed. As far as what the -- I was advocating a clear chain of command. So that we could get resources flowing in the right places.

 

O>> The governor said no?

 

N>> She said she needed 24 hours to make a decision. It would have been great if we could of left air force one, walked outside, and told the world that we had this all worked out. It didn't happen. And more people died.

 

The Mayor is ready to move, the president is ready to move, the feds are ready to take control...

but they couldn't

because

the

governor

has

the authority

and

would not

give

it

up.

 

please explain to us how you now blame the president for lol...actually obeying the law.

[Snuff 10]

Spike Lee.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

So are some of you blaming Bush for not knowing the Levee would break?

If I recall correctly, it was known the Levee's could only withstand a level III Hurricane.

This was known waaay before the Bush administration. People try to hard to pin everything on Bush.

Every opportunity you get, you pick and choose facts to support your argument. The levee was a known problem before the Times Picayune published their report. The Clinton Admin, and Bush I and II did nothing.

[Cruzer 1,993]

Gotta agree with you there. I don't know how many were displaced but when you say hundreds of millions then you are talking about at least 200 milion people. I would bet that is a little exagerated.

not only that, the link i provided estimated the number of displaced people to be just over 1 million. not that this is still not horrible, but there is a huge difference between 1 million and 100 mil.

[BMoney 0]

Guiliani had to deal with 16 blocks.

He got to go home at night to his own house.

Communications systems were operative.

While depleted, police and fire were active and coordinated.

The feds arrived almost immediately in response.

 

He had it a little easier.

 

16 of the more important blocks in this country...

 

are u saying that 9-11 and the toppling of buildings and towers was a cakewalk because he could sleep in his own bed?...

 

im saying that amidst the chaos..NY had their crap in order...

 

NO was focked because of the local and state govt..they were too ignorant to care about their own landscape and how a flood couldnt escape the town..

 

many times, the NWS asks for people to leave and storms veer off to another area..crying wolf people think..well..you cant force people to leave..unless you are saying that arrests should be made if people dont leave when its mandatory...

 

either way..the govt wasnt set up for the aftermath...that isnt the White Houses fault...

[Chronic Husker 85]

Are you serious you don't think New Orleans wasn't worse? Hundreds of millions were displaced, thousands were killed.

 

I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about.

 

There's about 300 million people in the United States as a whole.