Starting a Franchise Tomorrow?

[kilroy69 994]

Great young player, but what do all these Top 10 All-Time RB's in NFL history have in common?

 

Barry Sanders

Earl Campbell

OJ Simpson

Eric Dickerson

Ladanian Tomlinson

 

None won a Superbowl.

True but if you are building a team I would say that a back that can run like AP would be one of the top things you would look for. You can develop a qb based around a great RB.

[cmkp0819 0]

Might Light is the only Pro-Bowl O-linemen on the Patriots this year. Somehow Brady did okay though.

 

Just because you don't have a Joe Thomas on your team doesn't mean you cannot have a average to above average offensive line. HTH

Do your homework next time. Mankins and Koppen are also Pro Bowlers. HTH

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8...mp;confirm=true

[KSB2424 3,083]

Do your homework next time. Mankins and Koppen are also Pro Bowlers. HTH

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8...mp;confirm=true

I looked at the 2007 Pro Bowlers Well okay, Jeff Saturday, a center, was the only pro bowl O-lineman for Peyton Manning this year. How in the world did they win so many games? I think you get the point: One great O-lineman doesn't make a great Offensive line. But one great QB makes...well....a great QB.

 

Some other pro-bowl O-lineman were Jason Peters and Jonathon Ogden. Why weren't the Buffalo QB's and Baltimore QB's very good?

[cmkp0819 0]

Some other pro-bowl O-lineman were Jason Peters and Jonathon Ogden. Why weren't the Buffalo QB's and Baltimore QB's very good?

Because their offenses sucked. I'm not saying either Brady/Manning wouldn't be good choices either.

[listen2me 23 1,544]

I don't know how anyone can pick anything other than a QB? In today's game if you have a great QB you are set. Screw D, screw a running game. Give me a QB. I love playing great D and running the ball but that is a thing of teh past.

 

Last few SB winners, Pats Colts, Pitt......all had a great O-line but not a Ogden/W. Jones type.

 

I never understood the whole Left Tackle thing, yes its a QBs blind-side, but don't you need 5 good Olinmen plus RBs that know how to pick up blitzers to really protect your QB?.....Having Joe Thomas isn't going to protect my QB from 6 guys rushing him.

 

The answer is Manning or Brady. Its pretty clear. They both should have 5-7 good years left. With at least 3 of those being great years.

[listen2me 23 1,544]

True but if you are building a team I would say that a back that can run like AP would be one of the top things you would look for. You can develop a qb based around a great RB.

 

Ryan Grant ran like mad for the whole 2nd half of the year. Westy wasn't exactly highly touted coming out, The last few SBs included, Addai(rookie)/rhodes, Willie Parker, Old Corey Dillon, M. Pittman/Allstott.

 

Screw the RB position that is the easiest position to fill.

[KSB2424 3,083]

Because their offenses sucked.

Exactly.

 

You are crazy not to think the Bills or Ravens would not trade their 1 Pro Bowl O-Lineman for Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. Hell they would trade a pro-bowl OL for Romo/Big Ben/Palmer/Brees as well if the salaries matched up in a heart beat.

[edjr 5,567]

The No.1 goal of every francise should be to win a World Championship. Here is a list of the QB's in the NFL that have won a Superbowl:

 

Bart Starr

Joe Namath

Len Dawson

Johnny Unitas

Roger Staubach

Bob Griese

Terry Bradshaw

Ken Stabler

Jim Plunkett

Joe Montana

Joe Theisman

Jim McMahon

Phil Simms

Doug Williams

Jeff Hostetler

Mark Rypien

Troy Aikman

Steve Young

Brett Favre

John Elway

Trent Dilfer

Tom Brady

Brad Johnson

Ben Rothlisburger

Peyton Manning

 

78% of all teams that won it all had a HOF type QB running the show. HTH

 

Phill Simms and Troy Aikman are not HOF QB's IMOH. They are up there with Mark Rypien

[Gepetto 988]

Phill Simms and Troy Aikman are not HOF QB's IMOH. They are up there with Mark Rypien

 

Rypien had one great year. Aikman had several great years and 3 super bowl victories, MVP, one of the most accurate (if not the most) passers in NFL history. It doesn't matter what you think, Troy Aikman IS in the Hall of Fame therefore he is a HOF QB.

[The Hood 9]

The No.1 goal of every francise should be to win a World Championship. Here is a list of the QB's in the NFL that have won a Superbowl:

 

Bart Starr

Joe Namath

Len Dawson

Johnny Unitas

Roger Staubach

Bob Griese

Terry Bradshaw

Ken Stabler

Jim Plunkett

Joe Montana

Joe Theisman

Jim McMahon

Phil Simms

Doug Williams

Jeff Hostetler

Mark Rypien

Troy Aikman

Steve Young

Brett Favre

John Elway

Trent Dilfer

Tom Brady

Brad Johnson

Ben Rothlisburger

Peyton Manning

 

78% of all teams that won it all had a HOF type QB running the show. HTH

Why is Len Dawson bolded?

[Willie McGee 0]

The answer is Brady or Manning. Anyone else would be downright foolish.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Rypien had one great year. Aikman had several great years and 3 super bowl victories, MVP, one of the most accurate (if not the most) passers in NFL history. It doesn't matter what you think, Troy Aikman IS in the Hall of Fame therefore he is a HOF QB.

 

You're just a Cowboys knob-slobbing waiting to happen...

 

However, as much disdain as I have for the Cowboys, you're right. I've never seen a QB put the ball in exactly the right spot the way Aikman did. If I ever feel the need to show my sons video of proper throwing mechanics, it will be video of Troy. That said, Troy also had the benefit of one of the most dominant offensive lines I've ever seen and I'm pretty sure that even an average QB would have been pretty successful in that spot. Aikman's abilities were far and away above both Simms and Rypien.

[jgcrawfish 232]

The answer is Brady or Manning. Anyone else would be downright foolish.

 

I figured the answer would be "you"

[KSB2424 3,083]

Why is Len Dawson bolded?

You are right. Dawson is in the HOF. I should have not bolded him. So that means 80% not 78% of all the SuperBowl winners had HOF type Quarterbacks.

[NewbieJr 540]

Phill Simms and Troy Aikman are not HOF QB's IMOH. They are up there with Mark Rypien

[VaTerp 0]

This is a great conversation piece but the reality is that it really doesnt matter all that much. The NFL is the ultimate team game and you can take whoever you want to start your franchise but if you dont surround them w/ several other good players then you're not gonna be successful.

 

You cant go wrong w/ Manning or Brady especially w/ the lack of quality QBs in the league now but they have to be in the right situation. Manning was considered a choke artist until his D played lights out in the playoffs last year. Many great QBs like Marino and Fouts never got a ring b/c they didnt have the defenses and running games to support them. Im not gonna aruge who should be in the HOF and what not but MANY of those HOF QBs are thy byproducts of being on great teams.

 

I mean Terry Brashaw only threw 2 more TDs than picks in his career. Aikman never had more than 23 Tds in a season and that was the ONLY time he topped 20. Joe Namath is one of the most overrated QBs in NFL history. The guy threw 47 more picks than TDs. I know its not all about the stats. Leadership and other intangibles are very important factors. But its a hell of a lot easier to display those intangible when you're surronded with talent and in great situations.

 

Same is true of all positions. A great cover corner like Champ, who is not overrated btw, can only do so much if his team cant get a pass rush or stop the run. Great pass rushers can be nuetralized easily w/o others to take off the pressure, great lineman still need skill players to make it happen, etc., etc.

 

That being said, if I had to pick one guy I do like the idea of Joe Thomas. At the end of the day, football is still won in the trenches. Thomas figures to be a premiere left tackle for the next decade at least. And like I said you cant go wrong w/ Brady or Manning either. They're on the other side of 30 but still have A LOT of great football left in them.

[edjr 5,567]

 

This coming from you? you haven't been right since baseball season.

[vlade21 0]

Vlade Divac

[edjr 5,567]

This is a great conversation piece but the reality is that it really doesnt matter all that much. The NFL is the ultimate team game and you can take whoever you want to start your franchise but if you dont surround them w/ several other good players then you're not gonna be successful.

 

You cant go wrong w/ Manning or Brady especially w/ the lack of quality QBs in the league now but they have to be in the right situation. Manning was considered a choke artist until his D played lights out in the playoffs last year. Many great QBs like Marino and Fouts never got a ring b/c they didnt have the defenses and running games to support them. Im not gonna aruge who should be in the HOF and what not but MANY of those HOF QBs are thy byproducts of being on great teams.

 

I mean Terry Brashaw only threw 2 more TDs than picks in his career. Aikman never had more than 23 Tds in a season and that was the ONLY time he topped 20. Joe Namath is one of the most overrated QBs in NFL history. The guy threw 47 more picks than TDs. I know its not all about the stats. Leadership and other intangibles are very important factors. But its a hell of a lot easier to display those intangible when you're surronded with talent or in great positions.

 

Same is true of all positions. A great cover corner like Champ, who is not overrated btw, can only do so much if his team cant get a pass rush or stop the run. Great pass rushers can be nuetralized easily w/o others to take off the pressure, great lineman still need skill players to make it happen, etc., etc.

 

That being said, if I had to pick one guy I do like the idea of Joe Thomas. At the end of the day, football is still won in the trenches. Thomas figures to be a premiere left tackle for the next decade at least. And like I said you cant go wrong w/ Brady or Manning either. They're on the other side of 30 but still have A LOT of great football left in them.

 

It's too much of a team game for anyone to ever accurately judge any of this.

[KSB2424 3,083]

It's too much of a team game for anyone to ever accurately judge any of this.

Very true, however if you polled all 32 active GM's this exact hypothetical question, I would be willing to wager that over 90% of them would say "Give me Tom Brady or Peyton Manning".

 

This actually pans out in the real NFL draft. If there is a bonafide superstud "can't miss" franchise QB in the draft he goes #1 every time. Over whatever best OL, RB, MLB, or CB is out there. Of course over time these don't always pan out, however it illustrates what NFL GM's covet most.

 

Out of 70 NFL drafts there have been 25 QB's picked first overall compared to 2 O-Lineman. I think that speaks volumns as to how much a NFL GM desperatly wants and needs a great signal caller and how that position is vital to success in the NFL. In this hypothetical scenario you get a chance to pick a proven, bonafide Top 10 All Time QB to build your team around. It really is a no-brainer.

[ratbastard1 0]

I'd go QB, DL, OL in first 3 rounds, no particular order. (Brady if i drafted 1st)

[Headslap75 0]

Why is Len Dawson bolded?

And Kurt Warner isn't even on the list............I knew that was a dream

[scherber830 0]

What about Randy Moss? With the exception of the Oakland season, Moss has been on the league's best offense (or near). I know receivers can be found later, but you gotta admit, defenses change the way they play when they play against him.

[KSB2424 3,083]

What about Randy Moss? With the exception of the Oakland season, Moss has been on the league's best offense (or near). I know receivers can be found later, but you gotta admit, defenses change the way they play when they play against him.

A 30 something WR? Not even close. They are the first ones to slow when age catches up. If I was picking strictly WR's to build a WR core for the future I would choose these guys first in this order:

 

Larry Fitzgerald

Baylon Edwards

Brandon Marshall

Marques Colston

[cmkp0819 0]

That said, Emmitt also had the benefit of one of the most dominant offensive lines I've ever seen and I'm pretty sure that even an average RB would have been pretty successful in that spot.

Not to change the subject, but......

[nobody 2,044]

The No.1 goal of every francise should be to win a World Championship. Here is a list of the QB's in the NFL that have won a Superbowl:

 

Bart Starr

Joe Namath

Len Dawson

Johnny Unitas

Roger Staubach

Bob Griese

Terry Bradshaw

Ken Stabler

Jim Plunkett

Joe Montana

Joe Theisman

Jim McMahon

Phil Simms

Doug Williams

Jeff Hostetler

Mark Rypien

Troy Aikman

Steve Young

Brett Favre

John Elway

Trent Dilfer

Tom Brady

Brad Johnson

Ben Rothlisburger

Peyton Manning

 

78% of all teams that won it all had a HOF type QB running the show. HTH

I could have sworn Kurt Warner won a Super Bowl.

 

And Ben Roethlisberger isn't a Hall of Fame type qb.

[KSB2424 3,083]

I could have sworn Kurt Warner won a Super Bowl.

 

And Ben Roethlisberger isn't a Hall of Fame type qb.

Congrats! I missed one.

 

As far a Ben goes the jury is still out either way. Considering he has made the pro-bowl, won a Superbowl, thrown for over 11,000 yards all at the age of 26 he could be well on his way. Remember he is 2 years younger than Romo and Palmer. Hell, he is younger than both Eli and Rivers.

[t.j 35]

Super Mario

[Walter34 3]

Personally I go with Manning or Brady. Its all about the qb and you build the rest around him. L Tackle may be important enough to spend your 2nd round pick though.

 

Here's 44 names that are potential 1st rounders:

 

Brady, A Thomas, Lynch, Vilma, R Brown,

Rothlisberger, Polamalu, J Thomas, Palmer, Romo, Ware,

Newman, Barber III, Landry, S Andrews, Hawk, Peterson, K Williams

Fitzgerald, Urlacher, T Harris, Hester, Jason Peters, B Edwards,

P Manning, Sanders, Addai, V Young, Merriman, Cromartie,

Samuel, Mario Williams, Freeney, Jared Allen, Derrick Johnson, Marcus McNeil,

Peppers, R Bush, P Willis, L Tatupu, Trufant, LT, S Jackson

 

Overall, I would want to get my qb however.

[TredH20 0]

Personally I go with Manning or Brady. Its all about the qb and you build the rest around him. L Tackle may be important enough to spend your 2nd round pick though.

 

Here's 44 names that are potential 1st rounders:

 

Brady, A Thomas, Lynch, Vilma, R Brown,

Rothlisberger, Polamalu, J Thomas, Palmer, Romo, Ware,

Newman, Barber III, Landry, S Andrews, Hawk, Peterson, K Williams

Fitzgerald, Urlacher, T Harris, Hester, Jason Peters, B Edwards,

P Manning, Sanders, Addai, V Young, Merriman, Cromartie,

Samuel, Mario Williams, Freeney, Jared Allen, Derrick Johnson, Marcus McNeil,

Peppers, R Bush, P Willis, L Tatupu, Trufant, LT, S Jackson

 

Overall, I would want to get my qb however.

 

Brady? Brady? Who would want a "system QB" like Brady? If you don't have a "system" in place - how is he going to succeed?

 

Haha...I'd take Brady too. Or Manning. The leadership skills/crunch time experience the two of them possess alone would be so valueable to building a team. Not to mention laser-rocket arms...

 

Would it make sense to also maybe go for a QB who has made more with less? One that doesn't currently have the stellar coaching or WR corp that these two have? One a little more off the radar? Someone like David Garrard - who has decent arm strength, decent vision, can scramble a bit if needed - especially if the o-line wouldn't be stellar to start, and doesn't turn the ball over a lot - and does all of this without Pro-Bowl WRs. Though - the running game of Jax does take some of the pressure off of him - he has shown that he can still play when the running game gets shut down.

[Ras66not99 0]

Might Light is the only Pro-Bowl O-linemen on the Patriots this year. Somehow Brady did okay though.

can't be serious with this comment....

[GhostofMeanMachine99 1]

Vlade Divac

 

"My face....no more irritating....."

[KSB2424 3,083]

Vlade Divac

I prefer to call him: The Godfather of Flop

[kgeorge78 0]

Matt Millen is the only GM I would want.

 

Player ..... David Carr

[Pimptaddy 0]

The only correct answer is a QB! You have to build your team around a top QB, and the top guys are hard to find. Don't give me that offensive line stuff, as I am well aware of the importance of a good line. A Tom Brady, or Joe Montana is much harder to find than guys for your offensive line. A top RB would be good as well, but they don't touch the ball as often as a QB and have less impact on the game. Face it, the QB is the most important position on the field and you have to have quality at that position if you want to win often.

 

My Pick:

 

Tom Brady

[redtodd 7]

Kevin Faulk

[murf74 461]

The Patriots offensive line....end of story. I know it's more than one player but that is what you build a team around, a brick wall.

[murf74 461]

Congrats! I missed one.

 

As far a Ben goes the jury is still out either way. Considering he has made the pro-bowl, won a Superbowl, thrown for over 11,000 yards all at the age of 26 he could be well on his way. Remember he is 2 years younger than Romo and Palmer. Hell, he is younger than both Eli and Rivers.

 

All we hear is how Eli is learning or Rivers is learning.

 

But Ben is being treated like a 7 year vet because of his early success.....I will say this, what he did this year with that horrible oline and injuries to Holmes and Ward off and on all year....outside of Brady I don't think another QB had as good a season. And you could see that Ben is learning when he has those great games (he has 3 with a perfect rating in his career already) and you can see when he slips back into his youthful mistakes like not throwing it away and trying to force a big play when none exists (see first half of Jags game)

 

NO, I am not saying to build a team around him, check back in 3 years and only if he stops with the why the he|| did he throw that one...balls

[scherber830 0]

not trying to commit a mortal sin or anything but,

 

do you guys think brady would have become the "no brainer" answer to this debate? how much does belichiek and the new england system have to do with brady's status as "the best qb"

 

what if carson palmer was in brady's place?

 

All I'm trying to say is that Brady has reached this larger than life status as the greatest player in the game, but in reality he can't do it without Bill and co.

[Pimptaddy 0]

not trying to commit a mortal sin or anything but,

 

do you guys think brady would have become the "no brainer" answer to this debate? how much does belichiek and the new england system have to do with brady's status as "the best qb"

 

what if carson palmer was in brady's place?

 

All I'm trying to say is that Brady has reached this larger than life status as the greatest player in the game, but in reality he can't do it without Bill and co.

 

Montana had Walsh, Bradshaw had Nolan. Give it a rest! Brady is kicking NFL arse and he is a special player. I call it like I see it, and Brady is the real deal.