Kevin Smith vs McFadden

[GEUH 2]

PPR league, and looks like these two will be available. Logic suggests you take K.Smith, as he has the least committee worries, but I have a sneaky suspicion (particularly after watching him break that 45 yarder yest) that McFadden transforms into a beast this year. Who do you take, and why?

[thesitedoc 5]

I like McFadden because he is supposedly lining up as a WR also and he just has more talent IMO. I also expect that his talent will win him the clear cut roll as starter soon enough.

 

Kevin Smith is a good choice but I see more upside with Dmac.

[GEUH 2]

I like McFadden because he is supposedly lining up as a WR also and he just has more talent IMO. I also expect that his talent will win him the clear cut roll as starter soon enough.

 

Kevin Smith is a good choice but I see more upside with Dmac.

That's my thinking as well. DMC's simply more talented, and explosive. Gotta love K.Smith's rookie performance though, esp in light of the general malaise of the Lions.

[busta30 0]

I would go Dmac just off the upside. If you are comparing him to Kevin Smith, I would say Dmac has much more upside. He is type of player that can change the game in one carry. I don’t see that play in Smith. Not to mention after a 0-16 season last year, I see similar mess this year which means a lot of passing. It’s nice to establish the run, but when you are trailing the whole game you can’t be burning the clock.

 

Also, I’m not going to pull the stats, but I believe OAK has been in top 10 the past three seasons with their running game.

 

I’m sure there are some K. Smith lovers out there, but I’d pick McFadden of Smith.

[We Tigers 71]

Have them very close but Smith a little higher. I would love to get both of them near the 3/4 turn in a 12-team or larger. McFadden has monstrous big play potential, but it's all about usage. Fargas is the best pass-protector and a completely acceptable if unremarkable between the tackles back, and Bush can be beastly when he gets opportunities. I'll keep watching in camp to see how the roles are shaking out, but Fargas has been a between-the-20s mainstay for the Raiders the past two seasons, and I get the sense he's going to have at least a modest role this year, too. Smith is better between the tackles than McFadden and should see better running lanes this year with the new TE and a likely improvement at QB. I guess I see Smith as more likely to come out of the season with something around 280 carries than McFadden, who I could see getting stuck around 200 because of how many runners Oakland has in the stable. I like both to get around 40-50 catches this year. If there are signs that Fargas will be phased out or see fewer than the 200-plus carries he has recently, Run DMC goes up my list.

[GEUH 2]

Great responses thus far guys, keep em coming.

 

Agreed that Smith is essentially more 'reliable', esp given role as a feature back. Guess the decision comes down to consistency vs upside. Interestingly, after yesterday's performance the buzz is Fargas will be phased out even more. Add that to Cable's clear statement that the team is better w/DMac on the field, and we could have a lot more clarity on this by the end of preseason.

[busta30 0]

but Fargas has been a between-the-20s mainstay for the Raiders the past two seasons, and I get the sense he's going to have at least a modest role this year, too.

 

Well McFadden really hasn't had a chance as he was a rookie last year and then was injured/saved most of the year. I see Fargus fading away this season and feeding the ball to McFadden more this year.

 

I do agree the guy to worry about is Bush. I think McFadden and Bush will be the RBBC that Oakland uses the most.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I'm going on the other side here and saying Smith. Smith reportedly has dropped 10 lbs this offseason and has looked great. He did so specifically because he believed he had problems getting around the corner at the higher weight. Smith is also a 3 down guy. Smith was great down the stretch last year whereas McFadden has proven himself in one preseason game.

 

McFadden has liabilities in the passing game because he isn't adept at picking up the blitz, blocking just isn't his thing. He's also not a goal line guy, he's going to lose carries to Bush. And I'm not sure that Bush isn't the superior talent anyway. In a PPR McFadden may make up some difference, especially if he's being used as a WR in some sets. But McFadden just isn't that great an RB in my opinion, he's more of a speed guy. At Arkansas I saw Felix as the RB with more talent, but that's just my opinion.

[FlaHawker 24]

At Arkansas I saw Felix as the RB with more talent, but that's just my opinion.

And since you were able to predict Zach Thomas's pro bowl career after only watching one play, I'd say that opinion must be spot on

[jgcrawfish 232]

And since you were able to predict Zach Thomas's pro bowl career after only watching one play, I'd say that opinion must be spot on

 

wow..you add so much to these discussions...your invaluable insight makes every thread you grace with your presence that much richer just for you having been there.

[Belushi 9]

I would say Smith. He really has not competition for carries, and he'll get the goal-line work. He might lose 3rd downs to Morris, but he won't lose his starting job. McFadden has potential, but he's still behind Fargas on the depth chart. Bush showed that he can be a very effective back (I think he should be the starter) last year, and he'll get the goal-line work.

 

Considering how bad the passing game will be in Oakland, I like Smith's situation allot better. CPep sucks, but at least they have Calvin Johnson to keep D's honest. Who do the Raiders have? Chaz Shiliens.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I would say Smith. He really has not competition for carries, and he'll get the goal-line work. He might lose 3rd downs to Morris, but he won't lose his starting job. McFadden has potential, but he's still behind Fargas on the depth chart. Bush showed that he can be a very effective back (I think he should be the starter) last year, and he'll get the goal-line work.

 

Considering how bad the passing game will be in Oakland, I like Smith's situation allot better. CPep sucks, but at least they have Calvin Johnson to keep D's honest. Who do the Raiders have? Chaz Shiliens.

 

I do not understand for the life of me...

 

1. Why the Raiders drafted McFadden when they had Bush (who I agree, is the better back) and Fargas to handle the load.

 

2. Why, if they chose to draft McFadden in spite of #1, why they have not tried to trade Fargas or Bush.

 

It just makes no damn sense. But there's the raiders for you.

[GEUH 2]

Great points all around. Belushi, I agree re: keeping defenses honest. The world now realizes who Mega is, and more importantly, that he can't be stopped despite who's tossing him the rock. K.Smith has apparently added power by focusing on his lower body training in the offseason.

 

I still think DMC is the better back, and IF he gets the carries, he'll be a guy many wish they drafted this year. I also suspect Russell is substantially better this year. But there are risks to both of those predictions. Tough to decide whether you go safe, or go with upside.

[We Tigers 71]

I do not understand for the life of me...

 

1. Why the Raiders drafted McFadden when they had Bush (who I agree, is the better back) and Fargas to handle the load.

 

2. Why, if they chose to draft McFadden in spite of #1, why they have not tried to trade Fargas or Bush.

 

It just makes no damn sense. But there's the raiders for you.

Because Darren McFadden is a GREAT PLAYAH! </aldavis>

 

McFadden and Bush will be an excellent duo if Fargas is phased out. Even with Fargas, the Raiders are actually still a pretty good running team. Just not that fun for fantasy...yet.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I'll take this moment to point out that Waldman had Smith rated higher than all but Stewart, Rice and Mendenhall in the 08 RSP. He had McFadden rated much lower. I don't necessarily think that Waldman is the end all be all of talent evaluation for FF purposes, but it is the dude's gig.

[mhaggy 0]

I'd take KSmith just over concerns about touches and the Raiders offense in general. I don't think the Lions offense will be great by any means, but at least they have an outstanding vertical threat with their big arm QB (whether its Staff or Culpepper) whereas the Oakland receiving corps is a joke and DHB is probably the biggest joke of all. Plus, as others above me have stated, Fargas is there to steal carries and Cable would be insane not to be giving Bush a decent % of the touches as well.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think DMC will have a pretty good year, but I feel that KSmith has a higher ceiling just because he's "the man" in Detroit and I expect the Oakland offense to be pretty pathetic this year.

[busta30 0]

Don't get me wrong, I think DMC will have a pretty good year, but I feel that KSmith has a higher ceiling just because he's "the man" in Detroit and I expect the Oakland offense to be pretty pathetic this year.

 

I have no doubts their offense will stink it up, just like it has in past years. But they always move the ball on the ground. They always have a running game and will establish it.

 

Rushing Ranking:

2008

OAK - 10th

DET - 30th

 

2007

OAK - 7th

DET - 31st

 

Last year they ranked 10th rushing the ball....detroit 30th. What did the Lions do to improve that rushing game...I don't think two rookies (QB and TE) are going to move that rushing attack into top 10. I didn't see any major changes in DET to tell me they will be able to run the ball effectively. Atleast not compared to OAK.

[bryce_paradyce 0]

Great conversation in this thread.

 

Be sure to check out K Smith's sched. Detroit has a ridiculous start to their season:

Wk1 @NO

Wk2 Minny

Wk3 Wash (w/ the Albert Haynesworth addition)

Wk4 @Chi

Wk5 Pitts

 

Wk 15 Ariz

Wk 16 @SF

 

If possible, go with Run DMC and try to trade for K Smith after wk 5.

 

Round 3 or 4? DMC's ADP is 4.08. K Smith is 3.11 Since you are PPR, some WR's might push them down a few spots more. Just throwing it out there...

[GEUH 2]

nice addition bryce. that's a reasonable call. raiders have kc, denver and houston early so this may be the diffmaker.

[swirvenirvin 25]

Let's see RBBC vs non RBBC this isn't even a question

[murf74 461]

Let's see RBBC vs non RBBC this isn't even a question

 

How bout a 3 headed RBBC vs. no RBBC

 

Any questions?

[swirvenirvin 25]

How bout a 3 headed RBBC vs. no RBBC

 

Any questions?

exactly...

[Gladiators 1,987]

How bout a 3 headed RBBC vs. no RBBC

 

Any questions?

 

This answer makes much more sense than the "Let's see RBBC vs non RBBC this isn't even a question" response. Based on the 2nd posters' logic, he would take Kevin Smith over Chis Johnson and D Will as well. I doubt many others would go that route.

 

The only reason the OP should be bringing this question up, is if he believes DMC is going to work his way into a bigger role this year. If DMC shows some big play ability along with some blocking ability, he may end up seeing 50% or more of the carries to go along with his looks in the passing game.

 

I'm not saying I'd take DMC over Kevin Smith, but jut trying to point out why the OP may be questioning it. Oakland's defense might surprise a few people this year by keeping them in the game going into the 4th quarter, which will allow them to run the ball more. Though that remains to be seen.

[Little Big Head 6]

I love Mcfadden and his potential in PPR, but i dont trust the oakland RB situation in redraft. KSmith looked great down the stretch and had over 600yds and 5TDs over the last 8 games on a team that couldnt win a game and was often trailing. I think KSmith will be a very good option in Linnehans system as the undisputed feature back so ill go with him

[mdm_1971 0]

ok remember this is preseason people......was it a great run yes but was against backups people.....lets see mcfadden do it agianst 1st teamers before making him the next barry sanders......i think he has great Potential but so did bush and what has he done??????/ Bush gets a lot of passes so in ppr he is good but as a runningback he is not.....mcfadden could be great but not sold on him till see more....i would go smith before mcfadden based on smith at least shopwed he could carry the load the whole season......just my take people!

[FlaHawker 24]

wow..you add so much to these discussions...your invaluable insight makes every thread you grace with your presence that much richer just for you having been there.

Do you really need me to spell out the obvious? Ok, you are slow so here goes:

 

If you like high upside and you like to take risks, take Run DMC. If you are conservative and like consistency, take Smith. Dilemma solved. Simple.

[Moe Money 4]

I have them both ranked very close to one another. In my opinion though, you have to go with Smith, especially in a PPR. The unquestioned starter in Detroit + Horrible team + playing from behind = GARBAGE TIME POINTS!!!

I love GTP's on all those short dump off passes on prevent defenses....

[Joey Gladstone 33]

Smith, Smith, Smith, Smith, Smith.

 

McFadden has bust written all over him. Bush is the best back on the Raiders, and the coaches love Fargas.

 

If Kevin Smith didn't play in Detroit he would be a 2nd round pick.

[49ers_suck 0]

i like Smith, simply because he is THE GUY in Detroit.

 

McFadden's upside is limited with Bush/Fargas takin carries.

[DamageIncVacc 6]

All being equal ( both starting and no RBBC) I would take DMC but Smith is a productive runner and does not really share carries. Will get the ball alot. My opinion is Smith.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Do you really need me to spell out the obvious? Ok, you are slow so here goes:

 

If you like high upside and you like to take risks, take Run DMC. If you are conservative and like consistency, take Smith. Dilemma solved. Simple.

 

no, i really don't need you spell anything out, i was simply pointing out that you add nothing, nada, zilch. You would rather throw out insults and jabs that to contribute. This might be the first reasonably constructive post I've seen out of you in months. I don't see McFaddens upside as any higher than Smiths, and will pretty much state right now that Smith will amass more yards and more TD's on the season barring injuries. At least I'll make a statement and not the bland and blazing generalities you love to spew out when you aren't playing your normal role of hemorrhoid. Aren't they missing you over in Oz right now? Get on back to clicking your ruby red slippers back together and chanting...

 

There's no better time to be a Seahawks fan...

There's no better time to be a Seahawks fan...

There's no better time to be a Seahawks fan...

 

[BirdBradyBobbyOrr 0]

Love both of them this year. I'd go with Kevin Smith for 3 reasons.

 

1 DMC worries me more with injuries than Kevin Smith

2 I think DMC will be there in the 4th and Kevin Smith won't be

3 Fargas and Bush

[HeirCoryell 0]

Guess the decision comes down to consistency vs upside.

 

Wasn't Smith just a rookie last year also? Why would you think he doesn't have any upside?

[swirvenirvin 25]

This answer makes much more sense than the "Let's see RBBC vs non RBBC this isn't even a question" response. Based on the 2nd posters' logic, he would take Kevin Smith over Chis Johnson and D Will as well. I doubt many others would go that route.

 

 

FALSE try using common sense. See the question was comparing who to take between two players. And if you have two players who you think are equal you take the one in no RBBC

 

DUMB

[Gladiators 1,987]

FALSE try using common sense. See the question was comparing who to take between two players. And if you have two players who you think are equal you take the one in no RBBC

 

DUMB

 

Your logic is flawed. If it were truly as simple as you put it, there wouldn't be a question, would there? You have to look at much more than just whether a player is in RBBC, or has the job to himself. For example, I believe the Lions are going to be playing from farther behind more often than the Raiders this season. I also think that DMC is going to get a fair share of the carries after the first few games. Based on this reasoning, I would argue that it's not as cut and dry as "one is in a RBBC and the other isn't". I still don't know whether I'd take DMC over Smith, but hopefully you can see there's a little more to making these types of decisions than you originally thought.

[swirvenirvin 25]

Your logic is flawed. If it were truly as simple as you put it, there wouldn't be a question, would there?

 

Exactly my point this shouldn't even be a question. Smith is 30-40 fantasy points ahead of McFadden

[Dice_Dominator 0]

kevin smith is better. He will be a stud while Mcfadden is unproven and most likely running in a three headed platoon.

[mhaggy 0]

I have no doubts their offense will stink it up, just like it has in past years. But they always move the ball on the ground. They always have a running game and will establish it.

 

Rushing Ranking:

2008

OAK - 10th

DET - 30th

 

2007

OAK - 7th

DET - 31st

 

Last year they ranked 10th rushing the ball....detroit 30th. What did the Lions do to improve that rushing game...I don't think two rookies (QB and TE) are going to move that rushing attack into top 10. I didn't see any major changes in DET to tell me they will be able to run the ball effectively. Atleast not compared to OAK.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that overall when you combine Fargas/DMC/Bush that KSmith will rush for more than the entire Oakland platoon. What people question is how big a piece of the Oakland rushing pie DMC will be getting. Will DMC end the year with 50% of the team's rushing yards? Seems doubtful at this point. Last year McFadden averaged 38.4 rushing ypg and KSmith averaged 61.0 rushing ypg (and that's including a few games where he was inexplicably benched as the starter). KSmith averaged 17.5 touches/game and DMC had only 10.9 touches/game. KSmith also had 34% more receptions than DMC. Those are huge differences. Huge.

 

I think if you're taking DMC over KSmith you're just over thinking things and you're setting yourself up for disappointment. KSmith is not in a timeshare, DMC is. KSmith's offense has a vertical aspect to the attack which should work to open up rushing lanes, DMC's offense does not. KSmith has had no injury issues, DMC has.

 

I also think it's silly to be looking at schedules to try and anticipate defensive matchups a month before the season starts. Injuries, scheme changes, luck, etc. all cause defensive ranks to shift considerably from year to year. I would caution against planning on drafting DMC to take advantage of the "easier" schedule and then trading for KSmith - there's just too many moving parts and everything would have to go perfectly for your plan to pan out. You're assuming that (a) DMC starts out the year great, ( KSmith starts slow, © the KSmith owner will be willing to trade him, (d) all the defenses will perform exactly like they did last year, (e) DMC doesn't get injured and (f) random luck prevents KSmith from getting a garbage TD here or there/having a fluke good game against a solid D/etc. or basically nothing will happen to give the KSmith owner a reason to hang onto him. Just too many things can go wrong. Stop trying to project defensive rankings and just take the better player... IMO.

[FlaHawker 24]

no, i really don't need you spell anything out, i was simply pointing out that you add nothing, nada, zilch. You would rather throw out insults and jabs

Kinda like the jab you threw out at me when talking about RTS? Pot meet kettle

[Dice_Dominator 0]

I don't think anyone is arguing that overall when you combine Fargas/DMC/Bush that KSmith will rush for more than the entire Oakland platoon. What people question is how big a piece of the Oakland rushing pie DMC will be getting. Will DMC end the year with 50% of the team's rushing yards? Seems doubtful at this point. Last year McFadden averaged 38.4 rushing ypg and KSmith averaged 61.0 rushing ypg (and that's including a few games where he was inexplicably benched as the starter). KSmith averaged 17.5 touches/game and DMC had only 10.9 touches/game. KSmith also had 34% more receptions than DMC. Those are huge differences. Huge.

 

I think if you're taking DMC over KSmith you're just over thinking things and you're setting yourself up for disappointment. KSmith is not in a timeshare, DMC is. KSmith's offense has a vertical aspect to the attack which should work to open up rushing lanes, DMC's offense does not. KSmith has had no injury issues, DMC has.

 

I also think it's silly to be looking at schedules to try and anticipate defensive matchups a month before the season starts. Injuries, scheme changes, luck, etc. all cause defensive ranks to shift considerably from year to year. I would caution against planning on drafting DMC to take advantage of the "easier" schedule and then trading for KSmith - there's just too many moving parts and everything would have to go perfectly for your plan to pan out. You're assuming that (a) DMC starts out the year great, ( KSmith starts slow, © the KSmith owner will be willing to trade him, (d) all the defenses will perform exactly like they did last year, (e) DMC doesn't get injured and (f) random luck prevents KSmith from getting a garbage TD here or there/having a fluke good game against a solid D/etc. or basically nothing will happen to give the KSmith owner a reason to hang onto him. Just too many things can go wrong. Stop trying to project defensive rankings and just take the better player... IMO.

 

 

Also, Kevin Smith will have space to run thanks to Megatron out there drawing double coverage. none of the raider wrs scare anyone and Dmac will get 60% of the carries at most while Kevin will get 80 % or more.