The Mike Martz Effect

[ricanrockers 39]

Having Mike Martz as their OC, which Chicago Bears will benefit the most.

 

Jay Cutler: We all know he can sling the ball but will the INT's double since he will be airing it out every game?

 

Matt Forte: Can he be the Marshall Fauk in this offense?

 

Chester Taylor: Will steal playing time. How much though?

 

Johnny Knox: Will he take the #1 spot from Devin Hester?

 

Earl Bennett: Will be the #3/#4 WR!

 

Devin Hester: Can he hold his #1 spot?

 

Devin Aromashodu: Nice Sleeper but can he be the WR Cutler goes to every game? Everyone seems to like him too much. Was gone in round #6 in one draft. Too high in my book.

 

Rashied Davies: #5 receiver!!

 

Greg Olsen: We all know TEs do not do well in Martz's system but he never really had a talent like Olsen. Could be the best receiver on the team. I feel he must be utilized!!

[madd futher mucker 36]

Having Mike Martz as their OC, which Chicago Bears will benefit the most.

 

Jay Cutler: We all know he can sling the ball but will the INT's double since he will be airing it out every game?

 

Matt Forte: Can he be the Marshall Fauk in this offense?

 

Chester Taylor: Will steal playing time. How much though?

 

Johnny Knox: Will he take the #1 spot from Devin Hester?

 

Earl Bennett: Will be the #3/#4 WR!

 

Devin Hester: Can he hold his #1 spot?

 

Devin Aromashodu: Nice Sleeper but can he be the WR Cutler goes to every game? Everyone seems to like him too much. Was gone in round #6 in one draft. Too high in my book.

 

Rashied Davies: #5 receiver!!

 

Greg Olsen: We all know TEs do not do well in Martz's system but he never really had a talent like Olsen. Could be the best receiver on the team. I feel he must be utilized!!

 

LOL - I hope you don't expect many responses to your post, because you summed the situation in Chicago up so well.

But I only know one psychic that even gets a FEW things right. And unfortunately she doesn't know Cutler from the butler.

[worm 34]

Greg Olsen: We all know TEs do not do well in Martz's system but he never really had a talent like Olsen. Could be the best receiver on the team. I feel he must be utilized!!

He had Vernon Davis in 2008. Davis' stats: 31/358/2

[jgcrawfish 232]

He had Vernon Davis in 2008. Davis' stats: 31/358/2

 

Well, in his defense (ricanrockers that is), David didn't have his head screwed on straight back then. However, Martz has done one thing consistently...and that is turn good TE talent into fantasy fodder. I think Cutler, Forte and Knox will all be great values and could all approach the lower end of top tier/upper 2nd tear at their respective positions.

[pffwc.com 0]

You can win your league following Mike Martz around. I really think Knox is the second coming of Mike Furrey. He's like Mike Furrey Jr. Expect a nice consistant 100 receptions from him and enjoy your constant 8-10 points a week from a WR you can draft in the 10th round.

 

Its the Mustache Sweater Man lock of the year!!!!

[RLLD 3,539]

The only thing I know for certain is that the running backs will be misused and the passing game will improve.

[dabears864 0]

Food for thought. From what I understand, the new playbook is 1000 pages. During the Bears' interview process for a new offensive coordinator, Cutler had picked up Martz from the airport in Tennessee and they went to Vanderbilt to discuss Martz's system. From Vandy they went out to dinner. They have been speaking glowingly of each other ever since. Cutler has been getting to mini-camp practice before practice and staying after practice with Martz breaking down film and bringing Cutler up to speed on Martz's system. Cutler already has his contract extension, he is not doing extra work for a new contract. It may be for self preservation. The offensive line is mediocre at best. If Cutler hesitates, he could be killed. It will really benefit him to make quick decisions in the pocket. I wonder if this is the reason why Martz wants an experienced back up so bad.

 

Forte supposedly was injured last year. I am not in the training room, but he supposedly had knee and hamstring issues last year. He has been working out with Frank Gore like an animal from what I understand. I think Forte understands how important this year is for his career. Both Forte and Taylor are very good receivers. This bodes well for both of thier numbers. Forte is not giving up his position without a fight. I watched him every game last year and I did not like what I saw. If his drop in production was because of injury, he could be a very nice value this year. If he still stinks, Taylor is there to take the carries. High risk, high reward. I would rate them both higher in a point per reception league.

 

In a recent interview, Cutler said that Martz prefers smaller and quicker receivers. This bodes well for Hester and Knox. I am not so sure that this is such a good thing for Aromashudo and Bennet. Olsen is supposedly intrigued by the opportunities he will get in this offense, I am going the opposite way on this. The tight end has to be able to block in this system to add extra protection because the receivers are running deeper routes. Olsen has a future as a matador, he could not hold a short block last year in Turner's offense and now he will be asked to hold a longer block for a 5 or 7 step quarterback drop, smells like a big, nasty dog house to me.

 

When asked if he was upset that the Bears did not make a stronger play for Brandon Marshall, Cutler did not seem bothered by that at all. He also stated in a very matter of fact fashion that this year the offense will be good. There was extreme confidence in the way he said it, no hesitation whatsoever in his voice. He seemed very disappointed in his play last year. I think he is motivated and working extremely hard. I will be keeping a very close eye on him in training camp. He could be a top 10 QB this year.

I am putting together a fantasy football co-op, each person will be expected to cover a team throughout the year. Each person will also visit the teams' training camp once or twice. I will be covering the Bears or the Colts. Most of the people involved so far will probably have better break downs than this. Let me know if you might want to cover a team.

[PackYourNut 47]

Talk about over valued, that's Mike Martz!

 

Other then being an OC on a team that had 4 future HOF players, what exactly has Martz done? I could have coached the greatest show on turf.

 

I mean seriously? He has sucked everywhere, with exception of 1 year in Detroit. He ruined Frank Gore's value in SF and he will do the same to any Bears RB. Don't even speak about the TE, that guy wont crack the top 15.

 

The one thing I will say that is positive, is that Cutler is a smart kid and he has a rocket arm, so he could have good value, as long as he keeps the INT's to a minimum. The WR's are a crap shoot, but I like Knox to have the best chance for a break out year.

 

I just don't see Martz as being so great, that he's going to install a new system, on a team with a terrible line and unproven WR's and all of a sudden turn everyone into fantasy juggernauts. Not buying it... 1 or 2 guys will be fantasy relevant and that's it.

[Bert 1,109]

Talk about over valued, that's Mike Martz!

 

Other then being an OC on a team that had 4 future HOF players, what exactly has Martz done? I could have coached the greatest show on turf.

 

I mean seriously? He has sucked everywhere, with exception of 1 year in Detroit. He ruined Frank Gore's value in SF and he will do the same to any Bears RB. Don't even speak about the TE, that guy wont crack the top 15.

 

The one thing I will say that is positive, is that Cutler is a smart kid and he has a rocket arm, so he could have good value, as long as he keeps the INT's to a minimum. The WR's are a crap shoot, but I like Knox to have the best chance for a break out year.

 

I just don't see Martz as being so great, that he's going to install a new system, on a team with a terrible line and unproven WR's and all of a sudden turn everyone into fantasy juggernauts. Not buying it... 1 or 2 guys will be fantasy relevant and that's it.

 

Martz system requires a smart and accurate QB. The QBs in San Fran and Detroit where worse than crap. Think Green Bay QBs prior to Favre type horrible.

[MDC 5,963]

I'd say Cutler is a good bet to shatter every INT record.

[Raider 84 29]

I'd say Cutler is a good bet to shatter every INT record.

 

I hope so!

[remote controller 136]

Cutler will have to be on his horse or he is gonna get killed.

[PATSSOX 22]

I like Cutler, Olsen and Forte this year.(as nice mid to late picks) Cutler needs to use both Forte and Olsen as saftey nets. Everyone knows what happens when Cutler tries to squeeze his 100 MPH heater into a tight spot. INT Maybe Martz can smack some sense into Cutler and get him to use his 2 major weapons. Not gonna reach for any of the 3 but will gladly take them later on in draft.

[Joey Gladstone 33]

I'd say Cutler is a good bet to shatter every INT record.

 

That's only if he can stay off the IR. That o-line is still horrible, and this is an offense that takes a lot of time for plays to develop.

 

Lovie and Martz will be unemployed at the end of the season.

[ricanrockers 39]

LOL - I hope you don't expect many responses to your post, because you summed the situation in Chicago up so well.

But I only know one psychic that even gets a FEW things right. And unfortunately she doesn't know Cutler from the butler.

 

[ricanrockers 39]

Food for thought. From what I understand, the new playbook is 1000 pages. During the Bears' interview process for a new offensive coordinator, Cutler had picked up Martz from the airport in Tennessee and they went to Vanderbilt to discuss Martz's system. From Vandy they went out to dinner. They have been speaking glowingly of each other ever since. Cutler has been getting to mini-camp practice before practice and staying after practice with Martz breaking down film and bringing Cutler up to speed on Martz's system. Cutler already has his contract extension, he is not doing extra work for a new contract. It may be for self preservation. The offensive line is mediocre at best. If Cutler hesitates, he could be killed. It will really benefit him to make quick decisions in the pocket. I wonder if this is the reason why Martz wants an experienced back up so bad.

 

Forte supposedly was injured last year. I am not in the training room, but he supposedly had knee and hamstring issues last year. He has been working out with Frank Gore like an animal from what I understand. I think Forte understands how important this year is for his career. Both Forte and Taylor are very good receivers. This bodes well for both of thier numbers. Forte is not giving up his position without a fight. I watched him every game last year and I did not like what I saw. If his drop in production was because of injury, he could be a very nice value this year. If he still stinks, Taylor is there to take the carries. High risk, high reward. I would rate them both higher in a point per reception league.

 

In a recent interview, Cutler said that Martz prefers smaller and quicker receivers. This bodes well for Hester and Knox. I am not so sure that this is such a good thing for Aromashudo and Bennet. Olsen is supposedly intrigued by the opportunities he will get in this offense, I am going the opposite way on this. The tight end has to be able to block in this system to add extra protection because the receivers are running deeper routes. Olsen has a future as a matador, he could not hold a short block last year in Turner's offense and now he will be asked to hold a longer block for a 5 or 7 step quarterback drop, smells like a big, nasty dog house to me.

 

When asked if he was upset that the Bears did not make a stronger play for Brandon Marshall, Cutler did not seem bothered by that at all. He also stated in a very matter of fact fashion that this year the offense will be good. There was extreme confidence in the way he said it, no hesitation whatsoever in his voice. He seemed very disappointed in his play last year. I think he is motivated and working extremely hard. I will be keeping a very close eye on him in training camp. He could be a top 10 QB this year.

I am putting together a fantasy football co-op, each person will be expected to cover a team throughout the year. Each person will also visit the teams' training camp once or twice. I will be covering the Bears or the Colts. Most of the people involved so far will probably have better break downs than this. Let me know if you might want to cover a team.

 

Like your breakdown of Cutler. I think if he's serious, he could have an AMAZING season in this offense. Guess time will tell.

[Boston Three Party 6]

I don't even want to touch any Chi player this year, regardless of maybe Forte.

 

The look-alike comparison to Cutler and Favre is laughable.

[Chargersin08 0]

Cutler will throw too many interceptions to improve on his numbers from last year. If your league only penalizes 1 point per pick, that's a little better, but I'd rather own one of the receivers, Knox or Aromashadu, Hester is a joke. Knox or Aromashadu won't break your team if they don't pan out, but Cutler might if relying on him as a low #1/high #2. As for Forte and Olsen, their fantasy value is dead.

[Chargersin08 0]

Food for thought. From what I understand, the new playbook is 1000 pages. During the Bears' interview process for a new offensive coordinator, Cutler had picked up Martz from the airport in Tennessee and they went to Vanderbilt to discuss Martz's system. From Vandy they went out to dinner. They have been speaking glowingly of each other ever since. Cutler has been getting to mini-camp practice before practice and staying after practice with Martz breaking down film and bringing Cutler up to speed on Martz's system. Cutler already has his contract extension, he is not doing extra work for a new contract. It may be for self preservation. The offensive line is mediocre at best. If Cutler hesitates, he could be killed. It will really benefit him to make quick decisions in the pocket. I wonder if this is the reason why Martz wants an experienced back up so bad.

 

Forte supposedly was injured last year. I am not in the training room, but he supposedly had knee and hamstring issues last year. He has been working out with Frank Gore like an animal from what I understand. I think Forte understands how important this year is for his career. Both Forte and Taylor are very good receivers. This bodes well for both of thier numbers. Forte is not giving up his position without a fight. I watched him every game last year and I did not like what I saw. If his drop in production was because of injury, he could be a very nice value this year. If he still stinks, Taylor is there to take the carries. High risk, high reward. I would rate them both higher in a point per reception league.

 

In a recent interview, Cutler said that Martz prefers smaller and quicker receivers. This bodes well for Hester and Knox. I am not so sure that this is such a good thing for Aromashudo and Bennet. Olsen is supposedly intrigued by the opportunities he will get in this offense, I am going the opposite way on this. The tight end has to be able to block in this system to add extra protection because the receivers are running deeper routes. Olsen has a future as a matador, he could not hold a short block last year in Turner's offense and now he will be asked to hold a longer block for a 5 or 7 step quarterback drop, smells like a big, nasty dog house to me.

 

When asked if he was upset that the Bears did not make a stronger play for Brandon Marshall, Cutler did not seem bothered by that at all. He also stated in a very matter of fact fashion that this year the offense will be good. There was extreme confidence in the way he said it, no hesitation whatsoever in his voice. He seemed very disappointed in his play last year. I think he is motivated and working extremely hard. I will be keeping a very close eye on him in training camp. He could be a top 10 QB this year.

I am putting together a fantasy football co-op, each person will be expected to cover a team throughout the year. Each person will also visit the teams' training camp once or twice. I will be covering the Bears or the Colts. Most of the people involved so far will probably have better break downs than this. Let me know if you might want to cover a team.

Stopped reading at 1000 page playbook. Cutler is too much of a simpleton to succeed in such a convoluted system.

[bull19007 0]

Stopped reading at 1000 page playbook. Cutler is too much of a simpleton to succeed in such a convoluted system.

Cutler carried a 3.7 GPA at Vanderbilt. Simpleton I think not.

[PackYourNut 47]

Cutler carried a 3.7 GPA at Vanderbilt. Simpleton I think not.

 

You must realize that the comment came from a Charger fan. And while Cutler is a crybaby biatch, he is not a simpleton at all.

[longlurker 0]

I think that it all depends on how quickly the team picks up the offense. In STL he (martz) had vets and a sharp QB, in DET and SF, he had young teams with issues from the top down. I think in CHI he's got a smart, strong armed QB, a couple of good RB's and some fast WR's who may or may not have it? They definitely aren't Holt and Bruce.

 

I think Forte is a bargain this year, seems like he's going no sooner than late 3rd round even in PPR leagues. If healthy he can and should be a top 10 rb. Taylor is a good back up and again the best handcuff in the league.

 

Cutler should have respectable numbers, if by nothing based on volume of pass attempts. If you can deal with the INTS, I think he's good for top 15 at the worse.

 

The WR's, no idea who's going to do what or when. Could be up 1 week and down another all season depending on the matchups.

 

The D. I wouldn't draft the defense of a MM team.

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

I think what people tend to forget about Mike Martz is that his offence requires a stellar offensive line to protect during those long developing pass patterns. The Rams had it in their Super Bowl years. The Lions and Niners? No.

 

From what I recall, Bears fans were down on their offensive line last year. Did they make significant improvements in the offseason?

[Joey Gladstone 33]

I think what people tend to forget about Mike Martz is that his offence requires a stellar offensive line to protect during those long developing pass patterns. The Rams had it in their Super Bowl years. The Lions and Niners? No.

 

From what I recall, Bears fans were down on their offensive line last year. Did they make significant improvements in the offseason?

 

I made that same point, and no, they didn't upgrade. The only time we have ever seen this offense work was with a stellar offensive line. This could be a train wreck. One of the WR's will probably exceed expectations (Knox is my guess) but thats about it. I'm also shocked Olsen hasn't been traded yet.

 

It'll be a weird year in Chicago, but at least they'll clean house and start over fresh when its all said and done. Martz should take his show to the college game.

[Houston Texans 10]

Talk about over valued, that's Mike Martz!

 

Other then being an OC on a team that had 4 future HOF players, what exactly has Martz done? I could have coached the greatest show on turf.

 

I mean seriously? He has sucked everywhere, with exception of 1 year in Detroit.

He has been an OC or HC for 10 years in the NFL.

 

Out of those 10 years, he has had 4 seasons where his QB threw for over 4,000 yards. He didn't just do this with a future HOF QB. He helped Jon Freakin' Kitna have consecutive 4,000 yard seasons. In addition to those 4 4,000 seasons, Bulger had 2 years where he threw for over 3,800 and 3,900 yards. Plus, in 3 separate years (due to injuries) Martz had QBBCs that threw for over 4,000 yards. In 2000, the Rams had 2 QBs who threw for a total of over 5400 yards; in 2002, the Rams had 3 QBs throw for a total of 4,473 yards; & in 2005, the Rams had 3 QBs who threw for over 4300 yards. So, 9/10 years as OC of HC, his QBs have thrown for AT LEAST 3800 yards.

 

In 1999, the Rams had the #1 ranked pass offense.

In 2000, the Rams had the #1 ranked pass offense.

In 2001, the Rams had the #1 ranked pass offense.

In 2002, the Rams had the #2 ranked pass offense.

In 2003, the Rams had the #3 ranked pass offense.

In 2004, the Rams had the #5 ranked pass offense.

In 2005, the Rams had the #4 ranked pass offense.

In 2006, the Lions had the #7 ranked pass offense.

In 2007, the Lions had the #9 ranked pass offense.

In 2008, the 49ers had the #13 ranked pass offense.

 

So, nine years out of 10 with a top-10 pass offense (based on passing yards). Yeah, he has sucked everywhere.

 

He had Warner, Faulk, Holt, and Bruce playing like HOFers for 3 years (99,00,01). After that, Warner got injured, and tailed off; Faulk didn't rush for 1000 yards or get over 1500 YFS after 2001, and after 2002, Bruce wasn't playing great, either. He had 900 yards in 03, 1200 in 04, and only 500 in 05.

 

Martz won't be great for his TEs, and he won't be great for the rushing totals of his RBs, and he may not even produce a single STUD WR (although I think he'll make at least one of the Bear WRs a viable FF WR2), but he should produce a viable FF QB1, especially if your league doesn't penalize INTs, or at least not too heavily.

[Agame 2]

He has been an OC or HC for 10 years in the NFL.

 

Out of those 10 years, he has had 4 seasons where his QB threw for over 4,000 yards. He didn't just do this with a future HOF QB. He helped Jon Freakin' Kitna have consecutive 4,000 yard seasons. In addition to those 4 4,000 seasons, Bulger had 2 years where he threw for over 3,800 and 3,900 yards. Plus, in 3 separate years (due to injuries) Martz had QBBCs that threw for over 4,000 yards. In 2000, the Rams had 2 QBs who threw for a total of over 5400 yards; in 2002, the Rams had 3 QBs throw for a total of 4,473 yards; & in 2005, the Rams had 3 QBs who threw for over 4300 yards. So, 9/10 years as OC of HC, his QBs have thrown for AT LEAST 3800 yards.

 

In 1999, the Rams had the #1 ranked pass offense.

In 2000, the Rams had the #1 ranked pass offense.

In 2001, the Rams had the #1 ranked pass offense.

In 2002, the Rams had the #2 ranked pass offense.

In 2003, the Rams had the #3 ranked pass offense.

In 2004, the Rams had the #5 ranked pass offense.

In 2005, the Rams had the #4 ranked pass offense.

In 2006, the Lions had the #7 ranked pass offense.

In 2007, the Lions had the #9 ranked pass offense.

In 2008, the 49ers had the #13 ranked pass offense.

 

So, nine years out of 10 with a top-10 pass offense (based on passing yards). Yeah, he has sucked everywhere.

 

He had Warner, Faulk, Holt, and Bruce playing like HOFers for 3 years (99,00,01). After that, Warner got injured, and tailed off; Faulk didn't rush for 1000 yards or get over 1500 YFS after 2001, and after 2002, Bruce wasn't playing great, either. He had 900 yards in 03, 1200 in 04, and only 500 in 05.

 

Martz won't be great for his TEs, and he won't be great for the rushing totals of his RBs, and he may not even produce a single STUD WR (although I think he'll make at least one of the Bear WRs a viable FF WR2), but he should produce a viable FF QB1, especially if your league doesn't penalize INTs, or at least not too heavily.

 

Damn. Suddenly, I high on Cutler

[Chronic Husker 85]

You must realize that the comment came from a Charger fan. And while Cutler is a crybaby biatch, he is not a simpleton at all.

Not just any Charger fan. Jahrasta. I thought Mike banned his ass two years ago. Somehow, he's fallen through the cracks to post more garbage.

 

[PackYourNut 47]

He has been an OC or HC for 10 years in the NFL.

 

Out of those 10 years, he has had 4 seasons where his QB threw for over 4,000 yards. He didn't just do this with a future HOF QB. He helped Jon Freakin' Kitna have consecutive 4,000 yard seasons. In addition to those 4 4,000 seasons, Bulger had 2 years where he threw for over 3,800 and 3,900 yards. Plus, in 3 separate years (due to injuries) Martz had QBBCs that threw for over 4,000 yards. In 2000, the Rams had 2 QBs who threw for a total of over 5400 yards; in 2002, the Rams had 3 QBs throw for a total of 4,473 yards; & in 2005, the Rams had 3 QBs who threw for over 4300 yards. So, 9/10 years as OC of HC, his QBs have thrown for AT LEAST 3800 yards.

 

In 1999, the Rams had the #1 ranked pass offense.

In 2000, the Rams had the #1 ranked pass offense.

In 2001, the Rams had the #1 ranked pass offense.

In 2002, the Rams had the #2 ranked pass offense.

In 2003, the Rams had the #3 ranked pass offense.

In 2004, the Rams had the #5 ranked pass offense.

In 2005, the Rams had the #4 ranked pass offense.

In 2006, the Lions had the #7 ranked pass offense.

In 2007, the Lions had the #9 ranked pass offense.

In 2008, the 49ers had the #13 ranked pass offense.

 

So, nine years out of 10 with a top-10 pass offense (based on passing yards). Yeah, he has sucked everywhere.

 

He had Warner, Faulk, Holt, and Bruce playing like HOFers for 3 years (99,00,01). After that, Warner got injured, and tailed off; Faulk didn't rush for 1000 yards or get over 1500 YFS after 2001, and after 2002, Bruce wasn't playing great, either. He had 900 yards in 03, 1200 in 04, and only 500 in 05.

 

Martz won't be great for his TEs, and he won't be great for the rushing totals of his RBs, and he may not even produce a single STUD WR (although I think he'll make at least one of the Bear WRs a viable FF WR2), but he should produce a viable FF QB1, especially if your league doesn't penalize INTs, or at least not too heavily.

 

 

 

I think I see your point, he gets his QB's killed.

 

This is fantasy football and adding up different players stats at the same position is entirely irrelevant. You basically confirmed EXACTLY what I said.

 

He had great years, with future hall of fame players. He had 2 good years out of Kitna(i said 1) and the rest of the time he has sucked, because his QB's get slaughtered when throwing 8000 times a season. And 3800 yards isnt squat. 11 QB's threw for 3800+ last year, including Kyle Orton!

 

You can paint it however you want, however, my statement still holds true... 1 or 2 people on this ENTIRE team will be fantasy relevant this year. That *should* be Cutler, but he could also end up injured like 30% of his QB's have.

[Houston Texans 10]

I think I see your point, he gets his QB's killed.

 

This is fantasy football and adding up different players stats at the same position is entirely irrelevant. You basically confirmed EXACTLY what I said.

No, I didn't. You said:

Other then being an OC on a team that had 4 future HOF players, what exactly has Martz done?

AND

I mean seriously? He has sucked everywhere, with exception of 1 year in Detroit.

 

Nowhere in there did you even imply that Martz' system was dangerous to QBs, since that seems to be what you are taking from my post. You said Martz hasn't done anything. I proved that you were wrong, and he has had top 10 passing offenses 90% of the time he was an OC or HC. That's "doing something."

 

He had great years, with future hall of fame players. He had 2 good years out of Kitna(i said 1) and the rest of the time he has sucked, because his QB's get slaughtered when throwing 8000 times a season.

He has had ONE future HOFer-Warner. (And some people might debate him as a HOFer, although I wouldn't). Before he coached Warner, he was a NOBODY! Maybe, that has to do with the offense Martz ran?

 

But since you said "this is fantasy football," let's look at FF.

 

Martz has been the OC or HC for NFL teams for 10 seasons. In 1/2 of those seasons, his QB has been a top-12 (ie-FF QB1). Warner in 99 & 01. Bulger in 03 & 04. Kitna in 06. In addition, Warner was QB14 in 2000 (with his back-up, Trent Green finishing as QB23). You could have very easily "hand-cuffed" Warner with Green and had top-10 FF QB numbers from you QB spot. Also, Kitna just missed being a FF QB1 in 2007, finishing as QB13.

 

So you have 5/10 years where Martz has produced a FF QB1, a sixth year where you would've gotten a QB1 out of Martz' system by using Green as your hand-cuff, and a seventh where he just missed.

Again, I'd say that's "doing something."

 

And 3800 yards isnt squat. 11 QB's threw for 3800+ last year, including Kyle Orton!

Again, since you said "this is fantasy football," let's look at FF.

72 times since 99 (when Martz first was a OC or HC), a QB has thrown for over 3800 yards.

68 OF THOSE 72 TIMES THOSE QBS HAVE BEEN FF QB1s!!!!!!!!!!!

When it comes to FF, 3800+ passing yards definitely is important. It gives that QB a 94% chance of being a QB1.

 

Furthermore, since you seem to think a QB being a HOFer negates the importance of his OC/HC, I eliminated the 3800+ seasons of likely HOF QBs (Favre, Manning, Brady, Warner, Brees, and McNabb accounted for 30 of the 72 seasons) since 99. That leaves us with 42 3800+ seasons from non-HOFer QBs since 1999. Warner had 2 of them under Martz, so that means Martz has coached 7 of the 42 3800+ passing yard seasons by non-HOFer QBs since 1999. No other OC/HC has more than 4 in that span!

 

 

You can paint it however you want, however, my statement still holds true.

I didn't paint it, at all. I just gave you facts. And those facts PROVE, without a doubt, that your original statement of

what exactly has Martz done?....He has sucked everywhere, with exception of 1 year in Detroit.

most definitely DOES NOT hold true.

 

1 or 2 people on this ENTIRE team will be fantasy relevant this year. That *should* be Cutler, but he could also end up injured like 30% of his QB's have.

Read my post, genius. That's exactly what I said: Cutler should be a viable FF QB1, and there might be a viable WR2 on Chicago next year.

 

BTW-what QBs, other than Favre and Manning, don't get banged up? It's not uncommon for QBs to get hurt and miss games.

 

You might want to check your facts and stats and, you know, ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, next time.

[PackYourNut 47]

LOL... You can't polish a turd, buddy! Regardless of how hard you try!

[Houston Texans 10]

LOL... You can't polish a turd, buddy! Regardless of how hard you try!

I'm not trying to. I've used facts and stats to prove that you're wrong and Martz is very likely to help his QB (Cutler) be a FF QB1.

 

You on the other hand have proved nothing, except that you are slightly dumber than dirt.

[swamp dog 0]

the bears have arguably a crappier o-line right now than what the lions had when martz was in detroit...and they don't have the overall weapons the lions did when martz was in detroit (save maybe cutler over kitna).

 

how'd that turn out again? remind me.

 

i can't believe we're having this discussion. the bears are gonna suck this year. their o-line blows chunks. cutler will be dead by october.

[PackYourNut 47]

I'm not trying to. I've used facts and stats to prove that you're wrong and Martz is very likely to help his QB (Cutler) be a FF QB1.

 

You on the other hand have proved nothing, except that you are slightly dumber than dirt.

 

Dude, you're just like all the other self proclaimed know-it-all's. You take bits and pieces of information and twist them to suite your needs.

 

In my original post, I stated that Cutler could have good value, but for some reason you want to suck Martz's balls so bad that you go an dig up a bunch of situational data and twist it to fit your point. Which strangely enough, is the same exact point I had already made.

 

Pontificate away if makes you feel less like a douche, but the reality is that while Martz may be good for the passing game, there is more to an OFFENSE then passing stats. So, go ahead and take your arbitrary data and blow smoke up other peoples asses. However, I don't see it from such a narrow and ignorant view point and thus your entire logic or lack thereof is laughable to me.

[Houston Texans 10]

Dude, you're just like all the other self proclaimed know-it-all's. You take bits and pieces of information and twist them to suite your needs.

 

In my original post, I stated that Cutler could have good value, but for some reason you want to suck Martz's balls so bad that you go an dig up a bunch of situational data and twist it to fit your point. Which strangely enough, is the same exact point I had already made.

 

Pontificate away if makes you feel less like a douche, but the reality is that while Martz may be good for the passing game, there is more to an OFFENSE then passing stats. So, go ahead and take your arbitrary data and blow smoke up other peoples asses. However, I don't see it from such a narrow and ignorant view point and thus your entire logic or lack thereof is laughable to me.

 

This is your original post:

 

Talk about over valued, that's Mike Martz!

 

Other then being an OC on a team that had 4 future HOF players, what exactly has Martz done? I could have coached the greatest show on turf.

 

I mean seriously? He has sucked everywhere, with exception of 1 year in Detroit. He ruined Frank Gore's value in SF and he will do the same to any Bears RB. Don't even speak about the TE, that guy wont crack the top 15.

 

The one thing I will say that is positive, is that Cutler is a smart kid and he has a rocket arm, so he could have good value, as long as he keeps the INT's to a minimum. The WR's are a crap shoot, but I like Knox to have the best chance for a break out year.

 

I just don't see Martz as being so great, that he's going to install a new system, on a team with a terrible line and unproven WR's and all of a sudden turn everyone into fantasy juggernauts. Not buying it... 1 or 2 guys will be fantasy relevant and that's it.

 

Pay attention to the lines I bolded. Those are the asinine statements you made that I disagreed with, and I showed you real NFL stats (passing yardage-usually a good measure of passing offense) that demonstrated just how stupid your statements were. Passing stats that showed his TEAMS were good passing teams, and individual passing stats that showed his QBs produced good passing numbers.

 

Then you said, "this is fantasy football," and "3800+ yards doesn't mean squat." So I provided you FF stats that demonstrated that he still produced FF QB1s a majority of the time out of his QBs, AND that 3800+ passing yards does "mean squat," in fact it almost guarantees a QB1 finish.

 

Then you said, "keep polishing a turd," which demonstrates that you're either dumber than dirt, or a 12 year old who refuses to admit when he/she is wrong.

 

And, show me ANYWHERE, please where I said Martz is going to make all the Chicago Bears "fantasy relevant?" You won't be able to do it, because I never said it.

 

You made a stupid statement, and you were called on it. Live with it.

[PackYourNut 47]

This is your original post:

 

 

 

Pay attention to the lines I bolded. Those are the asinine statements you made that I disagreed with, and I showed you real NFL stats (passing yardage-usually a good measure of passing offense) that demonstrated just how stupid your statements were. Passing stats that showed his TEAMS were good passing teams, and individual passing stats that showed his QBs produced good passing numbers.

 

Then you said, "this is fantasy football," and "3800+ yards doesn't mean squat." So I provided you FF stats that demonstrated that he still produced FF QB1s a majority of the time out of his QBs, AND that 3800+ passing yards does "mean squat," in fact it almost guarantees a QB1 finish.

 

Then you said, "keep polishing a turd," which demonstrates that you're either dumber than dirt, or a 12 year old who refuses to admit when he/she is wrong.

 

And, show me ANYWHERE, please where I said Martz is going to make all the Chicago Bears "fantasy relevant?" You won't be able to do it, because I never said it.

 

You made a stupid statement, and you were called on it. Live with it.

 

Sigh... some people.

 

Mike Martz teams in TOTAL OFFENSE since he left STL.

 

2006 - 22nd

2007 - 19th

2008 - 23rd

 

He cant even do better then 50% of the teams in the league! Yeah, he is a focking Godsend. Wait no he isnt, he focking SUX! And unlike your arbitrary data, those really are the FACTS... not bits and pieces, but the entire body of work.

 

READ AGAIN! 22nd, 19th, 23rd

[Gepetto 1,006]

Sigh... some people.

 

Mike Martz teams in TOTAL OFFENSE since he left STL.

 

2006 - 22nd

2007 - 19th

2008 - 23rd

 

He cant even do better then 50% of the teams in the league! Yeah, he is a focking Godsend. Wait no he isnt, he focking SUX! And unlike your arbitrary data, those really are the FACTS... not bits and pieces, but the entire body of work.

 

READ AGAIN! 22nd, 19th, 23rd

 

It's up to Cutler, not Martz. Obviously Martz is a great offensive coordintor as his teams were setting records in St. Louis. Alex Smith or whoever else started in SF aren't gonna get it done no matter how well Martz coached 'em.

[Chargersin08 0]

It's up to Cutler, not Martz. Obviously Martz is a great offensive coordintor as his teams were setting records in St. Louis. Alex Smith or whoever else started in SF aren't gonna get it done no matter how well Martz coached 'em.

Ya, it was all Martz setting records in St Louis. I'm sure having 2 HOF receivers had nothing to do with that era.

 

Alex Smith or whoever...you mean the Alex Smith or whoever that recorded a better QB rating than Jay Cutler last year? That Alex Smith or whoever?

 

What a dork.

[Houston Texans 10]

the bears have arguably a crappier o-line right now than what the lions had when martz was in detroit

You could argue that, but the 2005 Lions (the year before Martz installed his O) had the 19 most sacks (32), and had the 25th best YPC (3.6). The 2009 Bears had the 14th most sacks (35), and had the 25th best YPC (4.0). It seems that those numbers are fairly even.

 

and they don't have the overall weapons the lions did when martz was in detroit (save maybe cutler over kitna).

Seriously???? The Bears have Forte, and Chester Taylor. The Lions had Kevin Jones at RB. At worst, I'd call that a push. The Bears have Hester, Bennett, Knox, & Aromashodu. The Lions had Roy Williams, Mike Furrey, & Az-Zahir Hakim. Williams and Furrey produced their best seasons in Martz' offense (with over 1300 & 1000 yards respectively) & neither EVER amassed over 836 yards in any other season. You call those "weapons?" Again, I'd call it a push, at worst.

 

how'd that turn out again? remind me.

2006>Kitna-QB6, Roy Williams-WR10, Furrey-WR19, K Jones-RB23(**mostly due to his career high, 62 receptions for 500+ yards)

So, a FF QB1, WR1, WR2, and RB2.

2007>Kitna-QB13, Shaun Mcdonald-WR23, Williams-WR33 (12 games), Calvin Johnson-WR35 (rookie year)

So, a FF QB2, WR2, and 2 WR3s (assuming a 12-team league).

 

2006 was obviously the better year, but Martz' offense produced FF worthy players BOTH years. Williams has NEVER even been a WR2 since 2006, Kitna had 2 of his best 3 (FF) years under Martz, and Furrey, McDonald, and Kevin Jones each had their best seasons in Martz' system.

 

Remember now?

[Houston Texans 10]

Sigh... some people.

 

Mike Martz teams in TOTAL OFFENSE since he left STL.

 

2006 - 22nd

2007 - 19th

2008 - 23rd

 

He cant even do better then 50% of the teams in the league! Yeah, he is a focking Godsend. Wait no he isnt, he focking SUX! And unlike your arbitrary data, those really are the FACTS... not bits and pieces, but the entire body of work.

 

READ AGAIN! 22nd, 19th, 23rd

I guess the Jets weren't a good rushing offense last year then. Their offense was ranked 20th in the NFL, WORSE THAN 50% OF THE TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE.

 

But, wait, they were the best rushing team in 2009! How's that possible?

 

Oh, yeah, because TOTAL OFFENSE stats don't determine if they had a great rushing O and crappy passing O, just like it doesn't differentiate between a great passing O and a crappy rushing O, like Martz' offenses tend to be. Dumbass.

 

Reading is your friend. You should try it. I never said Martz was a Godsend. You said "what's he ever done?" I provided the stats that showed he's produced starting caliber FF QBs. I never said he was going to help the running game, in fact I said that Martz wouldn't be great for the rushing totals of the Bears RB.

 

So, who cares what his total offense ranks were? That has NOTHING to do with my point that Martz makes his QBs valuable in FF. It's not arbitrary data, its data that is RELEVANT to the discussion at hand, unlike your data about total offense.

[Bert 1,109]

So, who cares what his total offense ranks were? That has NOTHING to do with my point that Martz makes his QBs valuable in FF. It's not arbitrary data, its data that is RELEVANT to the discussion at hand, unlike your data about total offense.

 

[/Thread]