Did Tebow just change everything?

[chroniciguana 13]

Tim Tebow 14 yd TD pass to Brandon Lloyd (4 pts)

Tim Tebow 6 yd TD pass to Eric Decker (4 pts)

Tim Tebow 6 yd rushing TD (6 pts)

Tim Tebow 94 total yards rushing (9 pts)

Tim Tebow 205 yards passing (8 pts)

 

This one came against the Chargers, a real NFL team. Three weeks. I think he just became one of my three keepers. Regardless, where does he now rank among FF QBs going into the 2011 draft?

 

Might as well start the debate now. We'll still be hashing it out in August.

[Gepetto 999]

I am in a 2 keeper league and I can keep Vick and Tebow for 19th and 20th round picks. We only start one QB but Vick is injury prone and Tebow might be worth a backup spot at that price. I'd have to give up Mike Williams Tampa for a 17th round pick if I did that though so I'll probably just let go of Tebow since Mike Williams Tampa would start every week for me most likely.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,631]

my current plan for next year is a Tebow/Freeman combo

 

Denvers Def wont be fixed over night, and even in bad passing games Tebow can still score you some points on the ground. I am a believer.

 

As of right now I go

 

Vick

Rodgers

Rivers

Brady

Manning

Brees

Romo

Tebow

Schaub

Roethlisberger

Eli

Freeman

Cutler

Ryan

 

There are so many options at QB next year its sick. I think Tebow can easily challenge for a top 5 spot though (considering what we know now)

 

if you play in one of those scoring out of position type leagues it gets even better

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,631]

Stafford, I completely forgot about too, is another guy I might target to go with Tebow

 

then you got guys like Fitzpatrick, Palmer, Flacco, Cassell, Garrard who are all fantasy options that dont even crack my top 15

[IGotWorms 3,396]

Meh. Add him to the mix as yet another middle tier QB2/borderline QB1, but I wouldn't sell the farm for him or anything.

[murf74 461]

If he has a preseason like he is playing now....he very well could be a top 10 fantasy QB for sure....with the rushing TDs he will be getting too? Not as electrify as Vick, but fantasy doesn't care about that.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

You'll have to pay a price to get him as your #2 next year. I don't think anyone's all the comfortable with him as their #1 but someone will like him enough to draft him early because of his upside potential.

[jocstrap 8]

this is why you don't take a qb in the early rounds. Vick wasn't even drafted in any league this year, and I bet a ton of people took a flier on Kolb before the 8th round. I'll happily take the 12 qb off the bored anyday and roll with that. I'll stock up on rb's and wr's early, and build my team around them in the first 6/7/8 rounds.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

this is why you don't take a qb in the early rounds. Vick wasn't even drafted in any league this year, and I bet a ton of people took a flier on Kolb before the 8th round. I'll happily take the 12 qb off the bored anyday and roll with that. I'll stock up on rb's and wr's early, and build my team around them in the first 6/7/8 rounds.

Give it a rest. If you spent an early pick on Peyton, Rivers, Brees, or Brady you were probably just fine this year.

 

A guy in our league spent a 1st rounder on Peyton, and his RB's were Foster and McCoy, while his WR's were D Jax, Wallace, and Wayne. He took a Manning/Wayne combo in the 1st/2nd.

[lguero1 4]

vick off of waivers is a once every 5 year phenomenon. look around the fantasy playoff teams, you'll see lots of rivers, brees, brady, vick, rodgers, and payton. tebow is a freeman type, he shoud be a steady 20 points with the possibility of a big game.

 

take a QB early, take your backup late.

[jocstrap 8]

vick off of waivers is a once every 5 year phenomenon. look around the fantasy playoff teams, you'll see lots of rivers, brees, brady, vick, rodgers, and payton. tebow is a freeman type, he shoud be a steady 20 points with the possibility of a big game.

 

take a QB early, take your backup late.

 

 

Thigpen won titles a few years ago off the WW

I plugged in Kerry focking Collins this year and won the championship

 

this year, I believe you can give an example for every strategy. They all were successful if you had the right guys.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

this year, I believe you can give an example for every strategy. They all were successful if you had the right guys.

Agree with this. Could have gone many different ways. And that's the way it should be.

[Gepetto 999]

Thigpen won titles a few years ago off the WW

I plugged in Kerry focking Collins this year and won the championship

 

this year, I believe you can give an example for every strategy. They all were successful if you had the right guys.

 

Another example is if you hadn't picked up Orton in our league you might have missed the playoffs.

[jocstrap 8]

Give it a rest. If you spent an early pick on Peyton, Rivers, Brees, or Brady you were probably just fine this year.

 

A guy in our league spent a 1st rounder on Peyton, and his RB's were Foster and McCoy, while his WR's were D Jax, Wallace, and Wayne. He took a Manning/Wayne combo in the 1st/2nd.

 

I played in 3 leagues this year - here are the starting rosters in the finals

 

Collins

Hillis

Charles

BJGE

Bowe

Lloyd

 

 

Vick

Foster

Snelling

Branch

AJ

CJ

 

 

Schaub

Charles

Turner

Britt

Roddy

Marshall

 

not one of the championship teams has a qb you mentioned in the finals. It was a focking crap shoot in all positions this year

[jocstrap 8]

Another example is if you hadn't picked up Orton in our league you might have missed the playoffs.

 

 

Orton was on fire for a while - no doubt

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

not one of the championship teams has a qb you mentioned in the finals. It was a focking crap shoot in all positions this year

Owners of Brees, Manning, Rivers, Vick, Rodgers, and Brady were all in our playoffs. Last week the Manning owner defeated the Rivers owner.

[Cstriker 2]

Dont go spending that round 5 pick on tebow. That would be unwise. I believe he has talent, but there is not enough film on him right now for Defenses to scheme against him. That wont be the same next year. If he is there around round 7-8 maybe.

[jocstrap 8]

Owners of Brees, Manning, Rivers, Vick, Rodgers, and Brady were all in our playoffs. Last week the Manning owner defeated the Rivers owner.

 

 

Exactly, somebody posted a topic on what did you learn this 2010 season. I think I personally learned that any strategy will work. I haven't had a high profile qb on my ff team since I took Favre in 1999. I'm of the RB philosophy, and probably won't easily be budged from this thinking. I am scared to death though when I play against Brady's and Manning's and Vick's. I just hope my opponents are equally as scared when they see me with a CJ2K and Charles in the lineup. That's what makes this game so fun - so many combinations that can bring you the title

[IGotWorms 3,396]

Tim Tebow 58.2 QB rating

 

 

Let's make sure this guy can successfully play QB at the pro-level before blowing an early pick on him, huh?

[Joey Gladstone 33]

I never draft two quarterbacks. Next year, I'll be falling over myself to take Tebow as my backup.

[kmbryant09 1]

In a 3-keeper, 2-QB league next year (in which I'll be taking Manning 1st overall), I'd definitely love to take a flier on Tebow in the middle of the drafts. I can't really imagine him being ranked as a top15 QB this offseason, even with some decent success to end the season. Which all means he should be available in rounds 7-12.

 

I've been the biggest Tebow supporter over the past few years, but let's be honest - it's never going to be pretty with him. He'll likely complete only 55-60% of his passes, throw his fair share of INT's, miss his fair share of open receivers. But at the same time, he's like Mike Vick, Jr., fantasy-wise.

 

He's clearly shown that he won't be overwhelmed by the NFL. He could be the hardest worker in the NFL, so you know he'll continue to get better. I honestly think he'll scramble/wildcat for ~40 yards per game. Even if he's only throwing for 3,200 yards and 20 TD's...That's 200 passing yards, 40 rushing yards, 1+ passing TD and an occasional rushing TD (maybe 6-8 on the season). He has some talented WR's - B. Lloyd, J. Gaffney (serviceable), Eddie Royal, Demaryious Thomas. He could very well end up with 3,500 passing yards, 500 rushing yards, and 25 total TD's.

 

I know it's just a phrase, but I don't think it's ever been more accurate in describing a single player: The dude just makes plays.

[IGotWorms 3,396]

You guys are all assuming Tim Tebow will be the starter in Denver next season. He may start out the season starting, but I'd be surprised if he finishes it in that capacity. Put another way: if he's playing, Tebow could put up some decent fantasy stats...but if he's playing, the Broncos probably won't win a ton of games.

[chroniciguana 13]

Every league is likely going to have at least one owner who is absolutely convinced Tebow will be the 2011 version of Vick. If there are two or more owners who feel Tebow = Vick and is a must-have, drafting Tebow becomes a game of chicken that could artificially bump him into the early rounds.

 

If this happens in enough leagues, Tebow's average draft position (aka collective wisdom) in the early drafts will obviously go up. Which could prompt other owners to follow, further inflating his ADP and potentially creating more converts. And so on.

 

Jon Gruden prior to the 2010 draft noted "somebody that really wants Tim in their locker room, that wants him on their football team, that can see down the road and have a vision for him, they will take him and take him earlier than some people expect." Gruden, of course, was and is in the bag for Tebow, but he was right.

 

On draft day it's going to be hard for a lot of owners to shake the suspicion that Tebow is a pure points machine that somebody, if not them, is going to ride into the playoffs. I predict a lot of draft room groans when his name goes flying off the board in the third round. Or earlier.

[listen2me 23 1,563]

Um, Tebow sucks. He may not even be starting next year. If he does start he may not finish starting.

 

He should punch himself in front of his family. And dog.

[listen2me 23 1,563]

You guys are all assuming Tim Tebow will be the starter in Denver next season. He may start out the season starting, but I'd be surprised if he finishes it in that capacity. Put another way: if he's playing, Tebow could put up some decent fantasy stats...but if he's playing, the Broncos probably won't win a ton of games.

 

Hey at least 1 guy has common sense.

[edjr 5,643]

Denver should rehire Josh McDaniels, he is a genius for drafting this guy.

[p00h 85]

this is why you don't take a qb in the early rounds. Vick wasn't even drafted in any league this year, and I bet a ton of people took a flier on Kolb before the 8th round. I'll happily take the 12 qb off the bored anyday and roll with that. I'll stock up on rb's and wr's early, and build my team around them in the first 6/7/8 rounds.

 

 

vick off of waivers is a once every 5 year phenomenon. look around the fantasy playoff teams, you'll see lots of rivers, brees, brady, vick, rodgers, and payton. tebow is a freeman type, he shoud be a steady 20 points with the possibility of a big game.

 

take a QB early, take your backup late.

 

 

 

 

this year, I believe you can give an example for every strategy. They all were successful if you had the right guys.

 

 

Owners of Brees, Manning, Rivers, Vick, Rodgers, and Brady were all in our playoffs. Last week the Manning owner defeated the Rivers owner.

 

 

couple of points that need to be made here. First off, using Vick as an example to prove a point that there are always qbs available on the WW might be the dumbest thing I've read on this board. Think about it for a minute. 80% of the stuff posted on this board is biased nonsense, incomprehensible complaining because a particular player didn't go for 180 and 2 tds a given weekend when someone needed him to, or just plain 'your momma' discourse. Seriously??? Are you seriously going to use Vick as an example to not draft a qb early??? THe 'Vick situation' doesn't come around even once every 5 years. Comes around once every 20 years, if that. Last time something like this happened with a qb was when Kurt Warner took over for a hurt Trent Green after week 1. It's really dumb to use this logic, please stop...

 

Secondly, people continue to make a point that there are viable qb options available later in the draft. THIS APPLIES FOR EVERY POSITION!!! Did foster and Hillis teach you nothing. And saying 'this year, any strategy would ahve worked' is not completely accurate. EVERY YEAR, any strategy can work. Taking a qb early, or rb early, or whatever is not hte only defining moment of a team. You could have waited till the 4th round to grab a rb this year, like I did in 1 league, and end up with foster, mccoy, bradshaw, and hillis, like I did. And that is not exclusive to this year. EVERY YEAR there are rbs gems in teh later rounds, the same as there are qb gems, and WR gems, and everything else. Is this really news to anyone. If you want to say that the need for 2 quality rbs puts them at a far greater premium than qbs because you only need 1 in most leagues, that is a valid logical statement. Saying you can grab a vick off the ww any given year is really really dumb. I mean mind boggling dumb!

 

Lastly, if you analyze number year of year, 1 thing always sticks out: Top end QBs ALWAYS earn their keep. Meaning the top tier qbs will rarely not produce, even when they're on shite teams. RBs, not so much. QUite the opposite actually. Like clockwork, more than 1/2 the top ranked rbs don't produce to their projections, with some actually producing so poorly that they can ruin a team. So let me explain to you what you get if you draft a qb early. You not only get a stud qb that you know will give you the numbers that he's projected to give you, but you also avoid the 50% minefield of ending up with a rb that can literally ruin your season singlehandedly. So taking this year for example, grabbing a rodgers, brees or manning would have not only given you a solid anchor in your lineup week in and week out, but would have also helped you avoid grabbing a ray rice, or a deangelo, or a gore, or even far worse a shonn greene, or a ryan matthews, or a randy moss, or a ryan grant. Add in the fact that rbs are far more likely to get hurt than qbs, and you have a strong case for taking a top qb fairly early in the draft...

 

This doesn't have anything to do with what tebow might end up doing next year, but I just had to make these points, for like the 14th time on this board. You can still choose to stick to your rb-rb-rb-wr-blahblahblah strategy, no one really cares what anyone else does with their draft or pickups mid season or whatever. But if you're going to have a decent logical conversation about things on the interwebs, atleast bring some logic to the table. Or else it just feels like edjr talking to himself allover the board, and no one wins in that scenario...

[edjr 5,643]

couple of points that need to be made here. First off, using Vick as an example to prove a point that there are always qbs available on the WW might be the dumbest thing I've read on this board. Think about it for a minute. 80% of the stuff posted on this board is biased nonsense, incomprehensible complaining because a particular player didn't go for 180 and 2 tds a given weekend when someone needed him to, or just plain 'your momma' discourse. Seriously??? Are you seriously going to use Vick as an example to not draft a qb early??? THe 'Vick situation' doesn't come around even once every 5 years. Comes around once every 20 years, if that. Last time something like this happened with a qb was when Kurt Warner took over for a hurt Trent Green after week 1. It's really dumb to use this logic, please stop...

 

Secondly, people continue to make a point that there are viable qb options available later in the draft. THIS APPLIES FOR EVERY POSITION!!! Did foster and Hillis teach you nothing. And saying 'this year, any strategy would ahve worked' is not completely accurate. EVERY YEAR, any strategy can work. Taking a qb early, or rb early, or whatever is not hte only defining moment of a team. You could have waited till the 4th round to grab a rb this year, like I did in 1 league, and end up with foster, mccoy, bradshaw, and hillis, like I did. And that is not exclusive to this year. EVERY YEAR there are rbs gems in teh later rounds, the same as there are qb gems, and WR gems, and everything else. Is this really news to anyone. If you want to say that the need for 2 quality rbs puts them at a far greater premium than qbs because you only need 1 in most leagues, that is a valid logical statement. Saying you can grab a vick off the ww any given year is really really dumb. I mean mind boggling dumb!

 

Lastly, if you analyze number year of year, 1 thing always sticks out: Top end QBs ALWAYS earn their keep. Meaning the top tier qbs will rarely not produce, even when they're on shite teams. RBs, not so much. QUite the opposite actually. Like clockwork, more than 1/2 the top ranked rbs don't produce to their projections, with some actually producing so poorly that they can ruin a team. So let me explain to you what you get if you draft a qb early. You not only get a stud qb that you know will give you the numbers that he's projected to give you, but you also avoid the 50% minefield of ending up with a rb that can literally ruin your season singlehandedly. So taking this year for example, grabbing a rodgers, brees or manning would have not only given you a solid anchor in your lineup week in and week out, but would have also helped you avoid grabbing a ray rice, or a deangelo, or a gore, or even far worse a shonn greene, or a ryan matthews, or a randy moss, or a ryan grant. Add in the fact that rbs are far more likely to get hurt than qbs, and you have a strong case for taking a top qb fairly early in the draft...

 

This doesn't have anything to do with what tebow might end up doing next year, but I just had to make these points, for like the 14th time on this board. You can still choose to stick to your rb-rb-rb-wr-blahblahblah strategy, no one really cares what anyone else does with their draft or pickups mid season or whatever. But if you're going to have a decent logical conversation about things on the interwebs, atleast bring some logic to the table. Or else it just feels like edjr talking to himself allover the board, and no one wins in that scenario...

 

p00h just took a dump on jocstrap.

[surferskin 30]

You could have waited till the 4th round to grab a rb this year, like I did in 1 league, and end up with foster, mccoy, bradshaw, and hillis, like I did.

 

Your league blows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...and so does your mom.

[p00h 85]

Your league blows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...and so does your mom.

 

 

well played. I expected nothing more from you, and you fully delivered. Your mom is probably the proudest in her trailer park. Bet her cousin is gonna get some good lovin tonite!!! If you're lucky they might even let you watch...

 

 

:overhead:

[jocstrap 8]

couple of points that need to be made here. First off, using Vick as an example to prove a point that there are always qbs available on the WW might be the dumbest thing I've read on this board. Think about it for a minute. 80% of the stuff posted on this board is biased nonsense, incomprehensible complaining because a particular player didn't go for 180 and 2 tds a given weekend when someone needed him to, or just plain 'your momma' discourse. Seriously??? Are you seriously going to use Vick as an example to not draft a qb early??? THe 'Vick situation' doesn't come around even once every 5 years. Comes around once every 20 years, if that. Last time something like this happened with a qb was when Kurt Warner took over for a hurt Trent Green after week 1. It's really dumb to use this logic, please stop...

 

Secondly, people continue to make a point that there are viable qb options available later in the draft. THIS APPLIES FOR EVERY POSITION!!! Did foster and Hillis teach you nothing. And saying 'this year, any strategy would ahve worked' is not completely accurate. EVERY YEAR, any strategy can work. Taking a qb early, or rb early, or whatever is not hte only defining moment of a team. You could have waited till the 4th round to grab a rb this year, like I did in 1 league, and end up with foster, mccoy, bradshaw, and hillis, like I did. And that is not exclusive to this year. EVERY YEAR there are rbs gems in teh later rounds, the same as there are qb gems, and WR gems, and everything else. Is this really news to anyone. If you want to say that the need for 2 quality rbs puts them at a far greater premium than qbs because you only need 1 in most leagues, that is a valid logical statement. Saying you can grab a vick off the ww any given year is really really dumb. I mean mind boggling dumb!

 

Lastly, if you analyze number year of year, 1 thing always sticks out: Top end QBs ALWAYS earn their keep. Meaning the top tier qbs will rarely not produce, even when they're on shite teams. RBs, not so much. QUite the opposite actually. Like clockwork, more than 1/2 the top ranked rbs don't produce to their projections, with some actually producing so poorly that they can ruin a team. So let me explain to you what you get if you draft a qb early. You not only get a stud qb that you know will give you the numbers that he's projected to give you, but you also avoid the 50% minefield of ending up with a rb that can literally ruin your season singlehandedly. So taking this year for example, grabbing a rodgers, brees or manning would have not only given you a solid anchor in your lineup week in and week out, but would have also helped you avoid grabbing a ray rice, or a deangelo, or a gore, or even far worse a shonn greene, or a ryan matthews, or a randy moss, or a ryan grant. Add in the fact that rbs are far more likely to get hurt than qbs, and you have a strong case for taking a top qb fairly early in the draft...

 

This doesn't have anything to do with what tebow might end up doing next year, but I just had to make these points, for like the 14th time on this board. You can still choose to stick to your rb-rb-rb-wr-blahblahblah strategy, no one really cares what anyone else does with their draft or pickups mid season or whatever. But if you're going to have a decent logical conversation about things on the interwebs, atleast bring some logic to the table. Or else it just feels like edjr talking to himself allover the board, and no one wins in that scenario...

 

 

Do you feel better? There is a 100% difference in philosophy's here. Take your Brady, Manning's, and Brees' all day long. You can try to explain your views all you want, but I'm not buying into it. Here is a fact though from a Geek league here on this board (MFFL). The last 4 years champions

 

2007 FamousB - Westy, Edge, Tjones

2008 FamousB - Westy, Edge, Marshall

2009 Jocstrap - Cj, Slaton, Pierre Thomas

2010 Hellothere - Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Steve Smith

 

HOW'S THAT FOR LOGIC? No qb's in the first 3 rounds here. Please explain to me all mighty one - HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? Maybe your theory is flawed perhaps?

[p00h 85]

Do you feel better? There is a 100% difference in philosophy's here. Take your Brady, Manning's, and Brees' all day long. You can try to explain your views all you want, but I'm not buying into it. Here is a fact though from a Geek league here on this board (MFFL). The last 4 years champions

 

2007 FamousB - Westy, Edge, Tjones

2008 FamousB - Westy, Edge, Marshall

2009 Jocstrap - Cj, Slaton, Pierre Thomas

2010 Hellothere - Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Steve Smith

 

HOW'S THAT FOR LOGIC? No qb's in the first 3 rounds here. Please explain to me all mighty one - HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? Maybe your theory is flawed perhaps?

 

 

so thats your logic??? 4 years in your 1 league. That is the logic you bring to the table. Thats your sample size, and you're asking me, in bold letters no less, HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? Well played. It's almost as bad as using vick as an example that there are stud qbs always laying around on the WW late into the season. Obviously there is a difference in philosophy here, the only difference being that I'm giving you some logical thinking behind mine, you're blindly sticking to 'qbs suck, rbs rule!' More power to you, if it works it works, why change it. I fully acknowledge that going rb early is not always going to backfire, where as you're adamant that thats the only way to do things. Again, there's going to be as many opinions as there are people posting on this board, and there's nothing wrong with that. But when you state things matter of factly with very little supporting fact, it makes for poor discussion...

[jocstrap 8]

so thats your logic??? 4 years in your 1 league. That is the logic you bring to the table. Thats your sample size, and you're asking me, in bold letters no less, HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? Well played. It's almost as bad as using vick as an example that there are stud qbs always laying around on the WW late into the season. Obviously there is a difference in philosophy here, the only difference being that I'm giving you some logical thinking behind mine, you're blindly sticking to 'qbs suck, rbs rule!' More power to you, if it works it works, why change it. I fully acknowledge that going rb early is not always going to backfire, where as you're adamant that thats the only way to do things. Again, there's going to be as many opinions as there are people posting on this board, and there's nothing wrong with that. But when you state things matter of factly with very little supporting fact, it makes for poor discussion...

 

 

the 4th example was a wr-wr-wr draft. So how do you keep coming up with I'm a rb only guy? I play in 3 leagues a year that's all. I was giving you example from this board as my sample size - since we are on this board.

 

so how is this little supporting facts? The past 4 champions from this board, did not draft a qb in the first 3 rounds. Why can't you accept this?

[p00h 85]

the 4th example was a wr-wr-wr draft. So how do you keep coming up with I'm a rb only guy? I play in 3 leagues a year that's all. I was giving you example from this board as my sample size - since we are on this board.

 

so how is this little supporting facts? The past 4 champions from this board, did not draft a qb in the first 3 rounds. Why can't you accept this?

 

 

where did I say I can't accept this??? Let me spell out my theory for you. THERE IS NO THEORY. The draft is a moving target, and at any given time, you have to factor in a multitude of variables to make the best decision. What you CAN'T ACCEPT is the simple fact that top tier qbs always produce at a high level, and they do so with consistency. This is not the case with top tiered rbs and wrs. And you try to back this up by using Vick as an example, which is really assinine, and also the fact that in the past 4 years the champs of your leagues didn't take a qb in the 1st 3 rounds. I gave you a ton of examples that support my perspective. If you need more, you can go ahead and look up past years. I'm giving you examples in general, not telling you how things played out in my leagues the past 4 years, which is a small sample size. Look at FF as a whole, that is a large sample size. There is no denying that half the top 2 round rbs fail miserably every year. WRs not so much, but guys like moss and wayne this year actually make the point for me. That also in itself tells you indirectly that there are rbs and wrs in teh later rounds that produce damn well. This again debunks the whole, 'there's always qbs left later that are servicable.' Yeah there are, but so are rbs, and wrs, and TEs, so explicitly using that as an arguement to wait for qbs is illogical, and reeks of being stuck in your ways and using roundabout logic to fit that theory. And I also provided ample examples of how top qbs consistently produce stud numbers, year after year. That is the simple basis of my arguement. I don't get stuck on, ALWAYS GRAB A QB EARLY! or NEVER TAKE A QB TILL THE 8TH ROUND! There are gems to be had in the later rounds for any position, and there are duds to be had for any position in MOST rounds as well, with the ONLY exception being top qbs in early rounds. You can't deny that. That is the only thing that is a guarantee in FF, top qbs consistently producing.

 

You want to sit there and say you'll never draft a qb early, that is absolutely your prerogative. Do what makes you happy, what works for you. I'm not saying you'll always lose with this ideology. I'll repeat myself, you can win with any draft strategy, ANY YEAR NOT JUST THIS. And the best way to approach a draft is to not have any strategy at all, and flow with whats happening in the draft. However, when you blindly say things that aren't backed up by any real logic, that is a detriment to the discussion at hand, thats what I'm saying...

[jocstrap 8]

where did I say I can't accept this??? Let me spell out my theory for you. THERE IS NO THEORY. The draft is a moving target, and at any given time, you have to factor in a multitude of variables to make the best decision. What you CAN'T ACCEPT is the simple fact that top tier qbs always produce at a high level, and they do so with consistency. This is not the case with top tiered rbs and wrs. And you try to back this up by using Vick as an example, which is really assinine, and also the fact that in the past 4 years the champs of your leagues didn't take a qb in the 1st 3 rounds. I gave you a ton of examples that support my perspective. If you need more, you can go ahead and look up past years. I'm giving you examples in general, not telling you how things played out in my leagues the past 4 years, which is a small sample size. Look at FF as a whole, that is a large sample size. There is no denying that half the top 2 round rbs fail miserably every year. WRs not so much, but guys like moss and wayne this year actually make the point for me. That also in itself tells you indirectly that there are rbs and wrs in teh later rounds that produce damn well. This again debunks the whole, 'there's always qbs left later that are servicable.' Yeah there are, but so are rbs, and wrs, and TEs, so explicitly using that as an arguement to wait for qbs is illogical, and reeks of being stuck in your ways and using roundabout logic to fit that theory. And I also provided ample examples of how top qbs consistently produce stud numbers, year after year. That is the simple basis of my arguement. I don't get stuck on, ALWAYS GRAB A QB EARLY! or NEVER TAKE A QB TILL THE 8TH ROUND! There are gems to be had in the later rounds for any position, and there are duds to be had for any position in MOST rounds as well, with the ONLY exception being top qbs in early rounds. You can't deny that. That is the only thing that is a guarantee in FF, top qbs consistently producing.

 

You want to sit there and say you'll never draft a qb early, that is absolutely your prerogative. Do what makes you happy, what works for you. I'm not saying you'll always lose with this ideology. I'll repeat myself, you can win with any draft strategy, ANY YEAR NOT JUST THIS. And the best way to approach a draft is to not have any strategy at all, and flow with whats happening in the draft. However, when you blindly say things that aren't backed up by any real logic, that is a detriment to the discussion at hand, thats what I'm saying...

 

 

I disagree with you here. AP, CJ2k, MJD produced at a high level - they were the top tier rb's with a huge gap to #4 IMO this year. I don't even want to get into the Shuan Alexanders', Terrell Davis', Faulks, LT's, Westy's, Portis' and so forth. There has been a shift in the past few years to RBBC so there might not be as many studs as in the past. But to say top tier rb's don't produce consistently is not correct. The previous names put up very consistent numbers while they were top tiered. Their longevity at the top is a much shorter stay than a qb though.

 

Vick and Orton were great WW guys this year at the QB position. Next year I'll throw out a couple of new names for you as well.

 

Brees, Brady, Manning, Rodgers produce consistently

ADP, CJ2K, MJD produce equally as consistent - will they last as long at the top compared to qb's? Not a chance

[The Moz 69]

every year there's 1 WW player that blows up if not multiple. This year it was Vick and Hillis , In Years past -- last year it was Jamal Charles and Jerome Harrison , in other years -- Ryan Brant , A. Boldin , Dom Davis , Rudi Johnson , B. WEstbrook I could go on. Vick was not a once in 5 year WW find there's 1 or 2 every year that are found on the wire and become a 1-2 round pick the next year.

[Fumbleweed 437]

It was a focking crap shoot in all positions this year

 

I would disagree with this at QB. Aside from Vick, the top QBs were exactly who they were supposed to be. The stud QB in the league are the surest things in fantasy football. QB scoring, again aside from Vick and Orton for a while, went according to script.

[p00h 85]

I would disagree with this at QB. Aside from Vick, the top QBs were exactly who they were supposed to be. The stud QB in the league are the surest things in fantasy football. QB scoring, again aside from Vick and Orton for a while, went according to script.

 

 

thats the point I've been making over and over again, but most people are so set in their stud rb theory, or 'no qb till the 9th round' theory they can't see past it. Not only can they not acknowledge this point, which is backed up by years and years and years of data, but they also can't get through their heads that top ranked rbs for any given year flop to the tune of 50%. It's not just this year, its every year! And every year there are tons of rbs that can be had in the later rounds as well as the WW, same as any other position(though there's more wrs to be had on WWs every year than any other position). And a lot of people actually go as far as to say the FF game is the same as it ever was, so the same theories apply. Really??? THe rbbc thing has always been there??? There are like 5 rbs in this league that stay in for ALL downs. Even ADP goes out on 3rd downs. It's absurd to get stuck on a theory, FF changes much like everything else in life does. It's like there's a bunch of grumpy 70 year olds playing FF. Back in my days, a rb was a rb, and we took him in the 1st round. Jim brown won me 4 straight years in my 1 keeper league, and since then I haven't drafted a qb till the 14th round. It's highly amusing actually. You try to open someone's eyes to different thinking and they get defensive. Not even trying to change anyone's minds, just to have some logical discussion, and rarely do you get a decent one going. Terrible state of affairs on this website and others like it...

[jocstrap 8]

I would disagree with this at QB. Aside from Vick, the top QBs were exactly who they were supposed to be. The stud QB in the league are the surest things in fantasy football. QB scoring, again aside from Vick and Orton for a while, went according to script.

 

Going by fftoday's year end rankings...

 

Yes the studs were at the top Manning-Rivers-Brees-Rodgers (where did Kolb and Romo go?)- - - but the qb's ranked right behind them, taken in the 6th round and later ala Eli, Garrard, Freeman, and Palmer respectively put up 31, 28, 25, & 26 td's each. Where do you draw the line dividing studs from the so so's? I also suppose it comes down to yardage totals. Peyton with 17 interceptions, and Drew with 22 interceptions also killed some owners those particular weeks. They went for negative points some weeks in one of my leagues.

 

We are arguing philosophy's here. To each his own, and I will continue to be happy with taking a qb in later rounds. There is not that much that seperates a Peyton Manning from an Eli Manning. Same can be argued for a Ray Rice vs Ahmad Bradshaw.

 

we are going in circles here

[jocstrap 8]

thats the point I've been making over and over again, but most people are so set in their stud rb theory, or 'no qb till the 9th round' theory they can't see past it. Not only can they not acknowledge this point, which is backed up by years and years and years of data, but they also can't get through their heads that top ranked rbs for any given year flop to the tune of 50%. It's not just this year, its every year! And every year there are tons of rbs that can be had in the later rounds as well as the WW, same as any other position(though there's more wrs to be had on WWs every year than any other position). And a lot of people actually go as far as to say the FF game is the same as it ever was, so the same theories apply. Really??? THe rbbc thing has always been there??? There are like 5 rbs in this league that stay in for ALL downs. Even ADP goes out on 3rd downs. It's absurd to get stuck on a theory, FF changes much like everything else in life does. It's like there's a bunch of grumpy 70 year olds playing FF. Back in my days, a rb was a rb, and we took him in the 1st round. Jim brown won me 4 straight years in my 1 keeper league, and since then I haven't drafted a qb till the 14th round. It's highly amusing actually. You try to open someone's eyes to different thinking and they get defensive. Not even trying to change anyone's minds, just to have some logical discussion, and rarely do you get a decent one going. Terrible state of affairs on this website and others like it...

 

 

It's been a good discussion Pooh. I'm not giving in, nor buying what you're selling

 

You take Peyton Manning and Ahmad Bradshaw

I'll take Eli Manning and Chris Johnson

 

I'll see you in the finals