Eagles to put franchise tag on Vick; trade Kolb

[IGotWorms 4,060]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6073930

 

Personally, I think Vick was something of a flash in the pan this year. He started off having a monster year but really fizzled out down the stretch. Now I guess we could speculate as to the reasons for that, but I think it's because NFL defenses had figured him out (again). I'd be surprised if he played at nearly as high of a level next year.

 

Not to mention that Vick is four years older than Kolb (which is significant since he heavily relies on his legs to play). But Philly probably will get a fair amount for trading Kolb. Maybe a first and third or something along those lines?

[FlaHawker 24]

I think Kolb might be traded to the Moon.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

I think Kolb might be traded to the Moon.

 

That's hilarious. Are you going to be here all week?

[JT 137]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6073930

 

Personally, I think Vick was something of a flash in the pan this year. He started off having a monster year but really fizzled out down the stretch. Now I guess we could speculate as to the reasons for that, but I think it's because NFL defenses had figured him out (again). I'd be surprised if he played at nearly as high of a level next year.

 

Not to mention that Vick is four years older than Kolb (which is significant since he heavily relies on his legs to play). But Philly probably will get a fair amount for trading Kolb. Maybe a first and third or something along those lines?

 

Don't be so quick with the "trade Kolb" headline. The article says they'll listen to offers; why wouldn't they? Reports are that they already have, but haven't found anyone willing to pay their hefty asking price.

 

Unless someone steps up with a crazy offer for Kolb, he'll be an Eagle next year. His salary is a pittance for a backup QB, especially for one that could be your starter going forward.

 

They're in a great position. You certainly can't afford to let Vick walk with nothing in return, not after the performance he put on this season. But age and injury, not to mention fame and it's pitfalls, are legitimate concerns with Vick. My guess is they'll end up keeping both, Vick will come into next year as the starter, and at the end of next season they'll be making the same decision, just a year later and a year better informed.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

Unless someone steps up with a crazy offer for Kolb, he'll be an Eagle next year. His salary is a pittance for a backup QB, especially for one that could be your starter going forward.

 

Good point. How long do they have Kolb under contract though? Because if next year is his last year, then wouldn't it make sense to trade him while you still could?

[MDC 7,590]

I'd be kind of surprised if the Eagles can get a first rounder for Kolb. He's looked good in limited action but he's barely played and the Eagles have really good weapons around him. Teams may be concerned that he's a product of the system. Then again, teams are so starved for quarterbacks that somebody might pull the trigger. Philly got a 2nd round pick for AJ Feeley so why not?

 

I'm okay with franchising Vick and giving him another year in the system. I don't think teams figured out Vick so much as they figured out the Eagles predictable offense. By the end of last season every opponent was dropping 7 into coverage and playing safeties a mile off the LOS to take away the deep ball. The total lack of a running game is what hurt Vick more than anything. That and the fact that the Eagles' OL is terrible.

 

I'm not sure how the labor impasse is going to affect free agency but I think the Eagles need a pretty big upgrade at talent at CB $2 and along the right side of the OL, particularly the right tackle spot. They could also use a pass rush. It's really unfortunate that Brandon Graham got injured so late in the season. Overall this team is not too far off talent wise but the offense is predictable and they're soft along both lines.

 

Edit: I think JT is right. Trading Kolb for a high 2nd rounder is a total wash since he's now a 5-year vet and the team invested a lot in coaching him up. They need to get at least a 1st rounder + to make a trade worthwhile but I seriously doubt any team is going to pay such a steep price. He'll end up playing backup this season and the Eagles will give Vick another audition year before deciding on a long-term deal.

[worm 36]

Good point. How long do they have Kolb under contract though? Because if next year is his last year, then wouldn't it make sense to trade him while you still could?

Yeah, he's a free agent after 2011, so if they want to get something for him now's the time.

[JT 137]

Yeah, he's a free agent after 2011, so if they want to get something for him now's the time.

 

If he sits next year and is primarily Vick's backup, nobody is going to come beating down the door with a long term deal. But the Eagles may want to.

 

Conversely, if he plays next year, for whatever reason, and looks as good as the Birds seem to think he is, then you give him the long term deal. Yes, he could try to hold them up or test the waters of free agency, but I think it's absolutely a chance you have to take. Odds are, if he has played well for Philly, they'll be willing to pay whatever anyone else would. They'll have flexibility at the QB spot financially.

 

They're going to give one of these QB a long term contract, it just won't be until next year. Makes no sense to do it now with the CBA looming, and with the means to keep both at a great rate. The Eagles are in position to control this process, and I think they have a strategy laid out to do it.

[Joey Gladstone 33]

I'd hang onto Kolb. No guarantees Vick keeps the good times rolling. He really got beat up last year and isnt getting any younger. Kolb gives them a nice insurance policy in 2011, and they can re-evaluate everything again in 2012.

 

In a perfect world I'd love to see them trade Kolb only to have police find dead pitbulls on Vick's property. Reid/Lurie are then forced to beg McNabb into coming back. That would be awesome!

[IGotWorms 4,060]

If he sits next year and is primarily Vick's backup, nobody is going to come beating down the door with a long term deal. But the Eagles may want to.

 

Conversely, if he plays next year, for whatever reason, and looks as good as the Birds seem to think he is, then you give him the long term deal. Yes, he could try to hold them up or test the waters of free agency, but I think it's absolutely a chance you have to take. Odds are, if he has played well for Philly, they'll be willing to pay whatever anyone else would. They'll have flexibility at the QB spot financially.

 

They're going to give one of these QB a long term contract, it just won't be until next year. Makes no sense to do it now with the CBA looming, and with the means to keep both at a great rate. The Eagles are in position to control this process, and I think they have a strategy laid out to do it.

 

I'm just not sure they can wait until after the 2011 season to make a determination. First of all, Kolb has made it clear that he wants to start somewhere in 2011. So if you keep him on as a backup, he will not be pleased. And if Vick stumbles at all you have an instant QB controversy. I think it'd be a huge distraction and maybe end up being bad for the team. Second, let's say they keep Kolb as a backup and franchise Vick and Vick starts all year. Then when Kolb is a free agent they lose him for nothing in return. SOME team will be willing to pay Kolb a lot of money (even if he spends 2011 on the bench) and the Eagles will not be willing to pay a backup nearly that much money.

 

I think the Eagles need to make a choice. Either you hand the reigns over to Kolb or you trade him away (assuming that you can get at least a second round pick for him). It's a tough spot to be in but I don't think they are going to be able to have their cake and eat it too.

[Puddleglum 0]

On the other hand, if you're franchise tagging Vick instead of giving him a contract, it's because you're worried he's an injury risk or won't be able to continue the high level of play. But if that's the case trading away Plan B (Kolb) doesn't seem like such a great idea. Vick's agent and potential Kolb suitors alike will call the Eagles on this during negotiations.

 

My assumption is they would franchise tag him with the intention to sign him long-term.

[Natetradomus 0]

Good point. How long do they have Kolb under contract though? Because if next year is his last year, then wouldn't it make sense to trade him while you still could?

 

Probably will ride it out this next season like the chargers did with Brees and Rivers. Brees had his shoulder thing i think if i remember correctly and vick is well vick. I think they are thinking boom or bust and if their starter gets hurt the team is screwed without a quality backup.

[WhiteWonder 2,824]

Mike Vick as a starting QB is perfect for Philly.

 

Defenses got used to him again at the end of last season which is evidence by the fact he began turning the ball over in the final 5 weeks he played.

 

He set career highs in most major passing categories, which isn't saying much.

 

Best part is, we have seen how this story plays out and the Eagles seem fooled into thinking Vick is the type of QB who can lead them to a title.

[Dan 66]

On the other hand, if you're franchise tagging Vick instead of giving him a contract, it's because you're worried he's an injury risk or won't be able to continue the high level of play. But if that's the case trading away Plan B (Kolb) doesn't seem like such a great idea. Vick's agent and potential Kolb suitors alike will call the Eagles on this during negotiations.

 

My assumption is they would franchise tag him with the intention to sign him long-term.

 

I think the franchise tag probably has as much to do with the labor impasse as anything. It may prove foolish - right now - to sign Vick to a long term contract, given the turbulent fiscal waters ahead. The franchise tag secures him long enough to see what is going to happen with the CBA.

[edjr 6,684]

Bad idea.

 

The league has figured out Vick now.

 

He won't be able to stay healthy for an entire season.

[Phurfur 70]

I guess all the Vick backers believe that he is going to be much better next year because the great season they are raving about this year got them a 1 and done in the playoffs coming out of a weak division. Good luck with that Vick backers.

[Bert 1,128]

Cunningham, McNabb, Vick the song remains the same. You would think Philly ownership would be tired of this painful tune.

[Stewburtx8 67]

I guess all the Vick backers believe that he is going to be much better next year because the great season they are raving about this year got them a 1 and done in the playoffs coming out of a weak division. Good luck with that Vick backers.

 

 

One and done in the playoffs has everything to do with the Eagles TEAM and not just Michael Vick. First off, the Eagles defense was terrible. Their secondary couldn't cover anyone, and their front 4 couldn't provide consistent pressure on the QB.

 

As others have pointed out, their offense was completely predictable. Andy Reid refuses to run the ball. Teams were willing to just drop guys back and take away the deep pass. They forced the Eagles to move down the field by moving the chains. Unfortunately, Reid and Morningweg lacked the patience with the playcalling to sustain many long drives. Vick made some mistakes and receivers dropped too many passes. It all led to a lot of inconsistency on offense later in the season.

 

As for putting the franchise tag on Vick, does it really matter? Until there is a new CBA, there is no free agency. So Vick can't sign anywhere else until there is a new CBA. And the new CBA may do away with the franchise tag. So the Eagles have to take a wait and see approach, and they may not even have a franchise tag available to put on Vick for 2011.

[Stewburtx8 67]

Cunningham, McNabb, Vick the song remains the same. You would think Philly ownership would be tired of this painful tune.

 

1999-2011 the song remains the same........Andy Reid

[Gepetto 1,389]

I guess all the Vick backers believe that he is going to be much better next year because the great season they are raving about this year got them a 1 and done in the playoffs coming out of a weak division. Good luck with that Vick backers.

 

They lost to the Packers who are in the Super Bowl meaning the Eagles may be the 2nd or 3rd best team in the league. Wow, that was a relly dumb comment you made.

[Phurfur 70]

They lost to the Packers who are in the Super Bowl meaning the Eagles may be the 2nd or 3rd best team in the league. Wow, that was a relly dumb comment you made.

 

No they are not the second or third best team. Wow, that was a relly dumb comment you made.

[Phurfur 70]

One and done in the playoffs has everything to do with the Eagles TEAM and not just Michael Vick. First off, the Eagles defense was terrible. Their secondary couldn't cover anyone, and their front 4 couldn't provide consistent pressure on the QB.

 

As others have pointed out, their offense was completely predictable. Andy Reid refuses to run the ball. Teams were willing to just drop guys back and take away the deep pass. They forced the Eagles to move down the field by moving the chains. Unfortunately, Reid and Morningweg lacked the patience with the playcalling to sustain many long drives. Vick made some mistakes and receivers dropped too many passes. It all led to a lot of inconsistency on offense later in the season.

 

As for putting the franchise tag on Vick, does it really matter? Until there is a new CBA, there is no free agency. So Vick can't sign anywhere else until there is a new CBA. And the new CBA may do away with the franchise tag. So the Eagles have to take a wait and see approach, and they may not even have a franchise tag available to put on Vick for 2011.

 

Their offense was completely predictable because of Vick's inability to read defenses limited what they could do.

 

Unfortunately, Vick lacked the talent to sustain many long drives.

 

Talk to me next year Philly.

[MDC 7,590]

Their offense was completely predictable because of Vick's inability to read defenses limited what they could do.

 

Unfortunately, Vick lacked the talent to sustain many long drives.

 

Talk to me next year Philly.

 

Assuming you're not just being a troll:

 

1. Defenses figured out the Eagles offense moreso than Vick. By the end of the year every team they faced was dropping 7 back in coverage with the safeties a mile deep. I don't care who you have at QB, no one is going to beat that with a porous offensive line and a coach who's never heard of this thing called the "running play."

 

2. Vick is still the best QB in the NFC East.

[Phurfur 70]

Assuming you're not just being a troll:

 

1. Defenses figured out the Eagles offense moreso than Vick. By the end of the year every team they faced was dropping 7 back in coverage with the safeties a mile deep. I don't care who you have at QB, no one is going to beat that with a porous offensive line and a coach who's never heard of this thing called the "running play."

 

2. Vick is still the best QB in the NFC East.

 

 

Aaron Rodgers didn't have a running game. Rodgers was GB's leading rusher in a number of games this year. The problem with Vick is that he needs too much time to find an open WR, you will need an All Pro O-line to protect this guy in the passing game. Next year pay attention to how he reads the defenses before you crown him king.

 

Edit: I am not being a troll, I don't think Vick is a very good QB. If Vick spends his off season watching defenses and learning his reads I could be proven wrong. I just don't think that will happen.

[Cstriker 2]

I think they are rushing into it. I'd pay kolb his money and keep him around for one more year to really gauge what vick is about. But then again , it might be prohibitively expensive.

[MDC 7,590]

Aaron Rodgers didn't have a running game. Rodgers was GB's leading rusher in a number of games this year. The problem with Vick is that he needs too much time to find an open WR, you will need an All Pro O-line to protect this guy in the passing game. Next year pay attention to how he reads the defenses before you crown him king.

 

Edit: I am not being a troll, I don't think Vick is a very good QB. If Vick spends his off season watching defenses and learning his reads I could be proven wrong. I just don't think that will happen.

 

Nobody is crowning Vick king. In fact, we're saying the opposite: the Eagles should franchise him because it gives them another year to evaluate him. His QB rating was over 100 and for most of the year the Eagles offense with Vick at the helm was carrying a terrible D. So maybe holding onto him for another season might be smart, call me crazy.

 

You might have noticed this Rodgers kind is among the top 4-5 quarterbacks in all of football, so saying that Vick isn't on his level isn't much of a shock to anyone.

[Gepetto 1,389]

Aaron Rodgers didn't have a running game. Rodgers was GB's leading rusher in a number of games this year. The problem with Vick is that he needs too much time to find an open WR, you will need an All Pro O-line to protect this guy in the passing game. Next year pay attention to how he reads the defenses before you crown him king.

 

Edit: I am not being a troll, I don't think Vick is a very good QB. If Vick spends his off season watching defenses and learning his reads I could be proven wrong. I just don't think that will happen.

 

Well, the fact of the matter is that Michael Vick has proven he is one of the best QBs.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

They lost to the Packers who are in the Super Bowl meaning the Eagles may be the 2nd or 3rd best team in the league. Wow, that was a relly dumb comment you made.

 

[drobeski 3,061]

the eagles signed sucking to a life time contract 20 years ago

[Eagles Green 34]

the eagles signed sucking to a life time contract 20 years ago

That's almost english you no-neck wrench turner.

 

Come unclog my toilet

[giraldi02 476]

For anyone that regularly watched the Philadelphia Eagles this season, and from some of these posts you can clearly see who did and did not, the main problem was the inconsistency from one game to another. Same ol' story that has remained under Andy Reid's tenure as HC. Onr game they look unstoppable (Jax, Washington) and the next they look confused, lethargic, and slow (Minn, Green Bay both times)

 

The fact that Vick's inconsistencies emerged more prevalent later in the season came as a direct result of the game against the Chicago Bears. The Bears have an outstanding defensive line that allows both their linebackers and secondary to roam in coverage and prevent the deep throws. The O-Line was a mess as well, but that was constant for the entire season. Vick ran for his life against Detroit early on in the year just as much as he did against a team like Dallas. But after that game against Chicago, the rest of the season teams began to use more players staying in coverage and see if Vick really was an accurate passer who could read defenses or whether he was the beneficiary of blown coverages early on due to organized chaos. When teams were downfield with exotic coverages, Vick often stopped looking at multiple options and rushed his decisions. Credit that to both the opposing defensive coordinators and to Andy/Marty's stubbornness.

 

For next season, both Kolb and Vick should be in Eagles green barring a king's ransom for Kolb. McNabb netted a 2nd and a 4th. I'd say that Kolb's asking price will be a 2nd and a conditional first. The Eagles are not going to admit a mistake on this, and nor should they. Kolb's contract next season is dirt cheap, and he is a potential starter in this league given the right set of circumstances. Following the 2011 season the Eagles can make a decision in regards to which QB they want to keep long term...but that is a lot of injuries and games away. And with Vick's health always a question mark, it sets the birds up nicely to have a cheap insurance policy waiting in the wings (no pun intended).

 

I for one don't see Vick having quite the success he had this season next season in terms of fantasy production. I think that the Eagles are going to target the lines, particularly the right OL/C, in the draft as well as find defensive playmakers in FA. Asomugha is the name that everyone wants to speak of this offseason, but I think a player like Cromartie is a reasonable option and allows financial flexibility elsewhere. Depending on how the Eagles attack their O-Line issues this offseason, I'd expect them to attempt to further balance the offense with more designed running plays and screen passes. Vick should be a good fit for a dynamic offense, but if they're not going to protect him by getting the ball out of his hands more often, he...and the Eagles are going to really suffer.

[Doozer 0]

What has Kolb done to prove he is worth anymore than a third or fourth round pick? Donovan, a proven above average QB gets a 2nd and a 4th... Yet Kolb should get more than this because he is turning 27 and has done nothing in this league outside of being highly valued by the Eagles management?!

 

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease. Kolb's done nothing, any team that gives up more than a second is foolish imo, and no team will imo.

 

Kolb is the second coming of Brady Quinn, captain checkdown with a noodle arm.

 

Kolb (2010) 6.3 Y/A

Vick (2010) 8.3 Y/A

 

Adjusted yards per attempt:

Kolb 5.4

Vick 8.5

[drobeski 3,061]

For anyone that regularly watched the Philadelphia Eagles this season, and from some of these posts you can clearly see who did and did not, the main problem was the inconsistency from one game to another. Same ol' story that has remained under Andy Reid's tenure as HC. Onr game they look unstoppable (Jax, Washington) and the next they look confused, lethargic, and slow (Minn, Green Bay both times)

 

The fact that Vick's inconsistencies emerged more prevalent later in the season came as a direct result of the game against the Chicago Bears. The Bears have an outstanding defensive line that allows both their linebackers and secondary to roam in coverage and prevent the deep throws. The O-Line was a mess as well, but that was constant for the entire season. Vick ran for his life against Detroit early on in the year just as much as he did against a team like Dallas. But after that game against Chicago, the rest of the season teams began to use more players staying in coverage and see if Vick really was an accurate passer who could read defenses or whether he was the beneficiary of blown coverages early on due to organized chaos. When teams were downfield with exotic coverages, Vick often stopped looking at multiple options and rushed his decisions. Credit that to both the opposing defensive coordinators and to Andy/Marty's stubbornness.

 

For next season, both Kolb and Vick should be in Eagles green barring a king's ransom for Kolb. McNabb netted a 2nd and a 4th. I'd say that Kolb's asking price will be a 2nd and a conditional first. The Eagles are not going to admit a mistake on this, and nor should they. Kolb's contract next season is dirt cheap, and he is a potential starter in this league given the right set of circumstances. Following the 2011 season the Eagles can make a decision in regards to which QB they want to keep long term...but that is a lot of injuries and games away. And with Vick's health always a question mark, it sets the birds up nicely to have a cheap insurance policy waiting in the wings (no pun intended).

 

I for one don't see Vick having quite the success he had this season next season in terms of fantasy production. I think that the Eagles are going to target the lines, particularly the right OL/C, in the draft as well as find defensive playmakers in FA. Asomugha is the name that everyone wants to speak of this offseason, but I think a player like Cromartie is a reasonable option and allows financial flexibility elsewhere. Depending on how the Eagles attack their O-Line issues this offseason, I'd expect them to attempt to further balance the offense with more designed running plays and screen passes. Vick should be a good fit for a dynamic offense, but if they're not going to protect him by getting the ball out of his hands more often, he...and the Eagles are going to really suffer.

that's a lot of words to point out a team sucks

[Stewburtx8 67]

Aaron Rodgers didn't have a running game. Rodgers was GB's leading rusher in a number of games this year. The problem with Vick is that he needs too much time to find an open WR, you will need an All Pro O-line to protect this guy in the passing game. Next year pay attention to how he reads the defenses before you crown him king.

 

Edit: I am not being a troll, I don't think Vick is a very good QB. If Vick spends his off season watching defenses and learning his reads I could be proven wrong. I just don't think that will happen.

 

 

You're entitled to your opinion. I used to think Michael Vick was a terrible QB. But watching him every game this season, he has shown A LOT of improvement. You don't go from a QB rating in the mid 70's to over 100 by not improving your ability to play the QB position. You don't go from a career completion % below 55% to one that is above 62% but not improving your ability to read defenses. Michael Vick is a much better QB now than he's ever been, and that was behind a pretty poor offensive line this season. Has he figured it all out? No, he hasn't. But I think there is still plenty of room for continued improvement. With the weapons he has in Philly, there is no reason a player with Vick's talent and ability can't continue to flourish. As you said, the big question is he willing to continue to put in the time studying opposing defenses and improving his craft.

 

Comparing him to Aaron Rodgers is foolish in my opinion. Rodgers might be the best QB in the NFL right now, and certainly top 3 or 4. To say Vick is not in that class as a QB is not a knock on Vick at all.

[Phurfur 70]

Nobody is crowning Vick king. In fact, we're saying the opposite: the Eagles should franchise him because it gives them another year to evaluate him. His QB rating was over 100 and for most of the year the Eagles offense with Vick at the helm was carrying a terrible D. So maybe holding onto him for another season might be smart, call me crazy.

 

You might have noticed this Rodgers kind is among the top 4-5 quarterbacks in all of football, so saying that Vick isn't on his level isn't much of a shock to anyone.

 

I can agree with that but I never compared Rodgers and Vick. People were complaining that Vick does not have a running game and I was trying to show that great QBs don't have to have a running game.

[Phurfur 70]

Well, the fact of the matter is that Michael Vick has proven he is one of the best QBs.

 

 

Link?

[Gepetto 1,389]

Link?

 

You want a link to every NFL game of the 2010 season? You should have paid attention when the games were on.

[Phurfur 70]

You want a link to every NFL game of the 2010 season? You should have paid attention when the games were on.

 

I thought so!

 

1st and 10, 40+ seconds left and your QB "goes out swinging".

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs8FBTLipI0

 

 

What a terrible pass. If you noticed, Vick had all day to pass.

[Gepetto 1,389]

I thought so!

 

1st and 10, 40+ seconds left and your QB "goes out swinging".

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs8FBTLipI0

 

 

What a terrible pass. If you noticed, Vick had all day to pass.

 

That's your proof that Vick is not elite? One play, huh. OK then. Tom Brady has thrown an interception to end the Patriots year when down by less than 7 late in the 4th quarter in the playoffs before too.

[Phurfur 70]

That's your proof that Vick is not elite? One play, huh. OK then. Tom Brady has thrown an interception to end the Patriots year when down by less than 7 late in the 4th quarter in the playoffs before too.

 

vick is not elite!