HOF discussion

[Vikings4ever 496]

Cris Carter passed over again.

 

Dumbfocks.

[Vikings4ever 496]

Dent, Faulk, Sabol, Sanders, Sharpe

[Joey Gladstone 33]

I'm still baffled on Carter. Maybe the lord doesnt want him in Canton?

 

I was surprised Sharpe didn't make it his first year. Clearly the best pass-catching TE of his era.

 

Sanders and Faulk were no-brainers.

 

indifferent on Dent. Hopefully Cortez Kennedy can slip in like he did at some point.

 

Good overall class beyond Carter getting shafted for a 3rd year.

 

*edit to add*

 

Holy sh!t! Carter wasn't one of the 10 finalists and Andre Reed was?!?

[Saint Elistan 106]

It's ###### Mikes&Mikes fault. Feel sooo bad for Carter.

[zmanzzzz 1]

carter was like the best nfl reciever ever.

[drobeski 3,061]

Cris Carter passed over again.

 

Dumbfocks.

Would have to blame the kunt factor

[Portis26 0]

Karma is a ###### lol he'll get in (Carter) but he is paying for his early career

[Dashow28 6]

It's ###### Mikes&Mikes fault. Feel sooo bad for Carter.

 

What did Mike&Mike do/say?

[MicktheGreat 1]

My five votes would've been:

1. Marshall Faulk

2. Cris Carter

3. Shannon Sharpe

4. Deion Sanders

5. Curtis Martin

 

I definitely could entertain an argument for Ed Sabol, Richard Dent, or Tim Brown for the #5 spot instead of Martin. The fact that Cris Carter still didn't get in is absolutely baffling to me. He's one of the top 10 WRs to ever play the game, in my opinion. I know that the Hall of Fame finalist pool this year was particularly deep, but how can Carter not be voted in? Based on the numbers and the quality of his career, he definitely deserves to be in. It must be some other factor that's keeping people from casting votes in his favor...

 

 

[Joey Gladstone 33]

My five votes would've been:

1. Marshall Faulk

2. Cris Carter

3. Shannon Sharpe

4. Deion Sanders

5. Curtis Martin

 

 

 

 

 

 

In order of most deserving:

 

1. Deion

 

 

 

2. Faulk

3. Sharpe

4. Carter

5. Dent

[Saint Elistan 106]

What did Mike&Mike do/say?

 

Was watching...Thursday I think it was...

 

Carter was on and Greenburg was talking to him. He says "I don't wanna jinx you like we did last year when we said you were a lock so I'm not going to bring it up...but Saturday is the HoF annoucenement..." and Carter's like "Well...guess you just brought it up."

 

 

Meh, gotta blame someone.

[IronCity Steel 0]

I see a weak 2012 HOF class. Chris Carter, Curtis Martin, and Jerome Bettis will likely be up for election in 2012. I don't see many first-time eligibles coming up in 2012 except for maybe Bill Parcells and Bill Cowher. I don't see them inducting two Steelers in the same year either. Dermonti Dawson was one of the top centers in his era and deserves consideration in the HOF.

 

The 2011 candidates were a good group to chose from, but unfortunately, only so many can get in.

[Thornton Melon 544]

I never used to understand the mindset that a guy was good enough for the Hall of Fame, but not in his first year. I always thought - if you think he belongs, vote him in as soon as he's eligible. Deion Sanders changed my opinion. Yeah, was one of the best cover guys ever, and a great return man. But he couldn't tackle worth a fock. I want my Hall of Fame defensive players to be able to master the art of tackling the ballcarrier. Yeah, he should be in the Hall, but I wouldn't have picked him this year. Make him wait to pay for his shortcomings.

[Kilroy 0]

I'm disappointed Jerome Bettis didn't get in (outside of Reggie White, Bettis and Drew Bledsoe are my favorite players of my lifetime). I guess he loses some acknowledgement because he wasn't an all-purpose back, but to me that's part of his allure.

 

For the type of back he was, and considering the era he played in, it's very impressive to me that he lasted as long as he did as a relevant player in the NFL and ranks 5th all-time on the NFL rushing list with 13,662 yards compiled on the ground. He also ranks 11th all-time with his 91 rushing touchdowns, which is nothing to sneeze at.

 

I can't say I'm shocked he wasn't voted in this year considering the other players that were eligible, but I sure hope he makes it in there soon. He deserves it.

 

My 5 votes probably would have gone something like this:

 

1. Marshall Faulk

2. Richard Dent

3. Chris Carter

4. Tim Brown

5. Jerome Bettis

[msudavedawg 5]

I'm disappointed Jerome Bettis didn't get in (outside of Reggie White, Bettis and Drew Bledsoe are my favorite players of my lifetime). I guess he loses some acknowledgement because he wasn't an all-purpose back, but to me that's part of his allure.

 

For the type of back he was, and considering the era he played in, it's very impressive to me that he lasted as long as he did as a relevant player in the NFL and ranks 5th all-time on the NFL rushing list with 13,662 yards compiled on the ground. He also ranks 11th all-time with his 91 rushing touchdowns, which is nothing to sneeze at.

 

I can't say I'm shocked he wasn't voted in this year considering the other players that were eligible, but I sure hope he makes it in there soon. He deserves it.

 

He's a fat Notre Dame turd. Hope he never makes it.

 

Okay, and I'm still bitter when he vultured all those TDs from FWP that one season.

[Kilroy 0]

He's a fat Notre Dame turd. Hope he never makes it.

 

Okay, and I'm still bitter when he vultured all those TDs from FWP that one season.

 

I remember that year.

 

But seriously, I love the way he ran the ball. There's only been a handful of guys that have ran it like that since - Marion Barber comes to mind, and lets face it, he's already shown signs of breaking down as a result and proven he can't sustain as the primary back over a full season.

 

Jerome Bettis did and lasted a long time in the NFL. It's pretty impressive considering the type of rusher he was.

[Kopy 491]

I see a weak 2012 HOF class. Chris Carter, Curtis Martin, and Jerome Bettis will likely be up for election in 2012. I don't see many first-time eligibles coming up in 2012 except for maybe Bill Parcells and Bill Cowher. I don't see them inducting two Steelers in the same year either. Dermonti Dawson was one of the top centers in his era and deserves consideration in the HOF.

 

The 2011 candidates were a good group to chose from, but unfortunately, only so many can get in.

 

This was my thinking also. 2012 is a very weak class.

Maybe Will Shields But other wise, it's gonna be a year where alot of the guys that are owed the trip in, will finally make it.

[Joey Gladstone 33]

This was my thinking also. 2012 is a very weak class.

Maybe Will Shields But other wise, it's gonna be a year where alot of the guys that are owed the trip in, will finally make it.

 

So Carter and Tez should get in!

[Cuse9 128]

Deion was the no brainer. Best cover corner and game changer I've ever seen, simply phenomenal!!

 

Shannon Sharpe was second on my list. When he retired he was the best statistical TE ever and owned three rings.

 

Marshall Faulk was a very good back who turned into amazing with the Greatest Show on Turf, easily in.

 

Cris Carter was a pass catching machine. One of the greatest possession wr's to ever play.

 

Tim Brown is right there with Carter as far as deserving. Not quite the wr numbers, but he evens things out with his outstanding punt return abilities during his early career.

 

Curtis Martin. Isn't he third or fourth on the all-time rushing list?! Doesn't that speak for itself?

 

I'm not a big Richard Dent fan. I think he was a solid player on fantastic defense. That defense was schematically great. Everyone had a job to do and they did it. Not trying to bash Dent by any means, I just think he filled his role in that defense.

 

--------------------------------------

I don't know when Warren Sapp is up, but I hope he's a first ballot HOFer. He's the greatest influential defensive player I've ever seen. Ability alone set him apart, but his mindset of "this ain't the old Buccs" catapulted a joke of a franchise into a yearly contender. I still remember on draft day he kept saying all the bad stuff about the Buccs was "BS"...."Before Sapp" and he went out and proved it. He's probably my most respected defensive player of all-time, not the greatest, but I've never seen a player refuse to lose like him!

[Pavlov 0]

I see a weak 2012 HOF class. Chris Carter, Curtis Martin, and Jerome Bettis will likely be up for election in 2012. I don't see many first-time eligibles coming up in 2012 except for maybe Bill Parcells and Bill Cowher. I don't see them inducting two Steelers in the same year either. Dermonti Dawson was one of the top centers in his era and deserves consideration in the HOF.

 

The 2011 candidates were a good group to chose from, but unfortunately, only so many can get in.

 

At this point, we're due for a catch-up year. Let Brown, Carter, and Dawson in. All those guys are overdue. Martin edges out the Bus this time around.

[RoadLizard 73]

Cris Carter passed over again.

 

Dumbfocks.

 

Yep - and that focking one-big-catch, do-nothing-else except play on a good team Lynn Swann is in the HOF. That alone totally delegitimizes the whole thing. There are plenty of others who are in there and shouldnt be. Its almost like the pro-bowl and ends up being a popularity contest versus actual stats and career accomplishments. baseball is just as bad if not worse.

 

The whole thing is a farce.

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

I don't dsagree with anyone who made it but

 

Curtis Martin is 4th in career rushing, has 100 career TD's and is the oldest player to ever win a rushing title at age 31. He is also 7th in total yards form scrimmage.

 

he should make it in 2012.

[Guest anotherday]

I don't dsagree with anyone who made it but

 

Curtis Martin is 4th in career rushing, has 100 career TD's and is the oldest player to ever win a rushing title at age 31. He is also 7th in total yards form scrimmage.

 

he should make it in 2012.

He must make it in 2012/

[nobody 2,043]

Was Jerome Bettis even in the top 4 runningbacks in the league more than maybe once his entire career? I'd put a lot of people in before him.

[Gepetto 988]

Was Jerome Bettis even in the top 4 runningbacks in the league more than maybe once his entire career? I'd put a lot of people in before him.

 

Bettis had plenty of that level of years. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BettJe00.htm

[Guest anotherday]

Was Jerome Bettis even in the top 4 runningbacks in the league more than maybe once his entire career? I'd put a lot of people in before him.

So do I.

[nobody 2,043]

Bettis had plenty of that level of years. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BettJe00.htm

 

 

Really?

 

Just sizing up his typical good years, here are the players by year who were better than him that year and also outshined his typical good year. For most of these there are probably a few people i even left off since I basically just stopped putting people in after a while.

 

1993

1. Emmit Smith

2. Thurman Thomas

3. Jerome Bettis

 

1994

1. Emmit Smith

2. Barry Sanders

3. Marshall Faulk

4. Chris Warren

5. Natrone Means

6. Jerome Bettis

 

1995

1. Emmit Smith

2. Barry Sanders

3. Curtis Martin

4. Ricky Watters

5. Marshall Faulk

6. Chris Warren

 

1996

1. Terrell Davis

2. Ricky Watters

3. Eddie George

4. Curtis Martin

5. Barry Sanders

6. Jerome Bettis

 

1997

1. Barry Sanders

2. Terrell Davis

3. Dorsey Levens

4. Jerome Bettis

 

1998

1. Terrell Davis

2. Jamal Anderson

3. Barry Sanders

4. Marshall Faulk

5. Garrison Hearst

6. Curtis Martin

7. Emmitt Smith

8. Eddie George

 

1999

1. Marshall Faulk

2. Edgerrin James

3. Eddie George

4. Curtis Martin

5. Emmit Smith

6. Stephen Davis

 

2000

1. Edgerrin James

2. Marshall Faulk

3. Eddie George

4. Robert Smith

5. Stephen Davis

6. Ricky Watters

7. Charlie Garner

8. Ahman Green

9. Tiki Barber

10. Corey Dillon

11. James Stewart

12. Mike Anderson

 

2001

1. Priest Holmes

2. Marshall Faulk

3. Ahman Green

4. Tomlinson

5. Curtis Martin

6. Ricky Williams

7. Stephen Davis

 

2002

1. Ricky Williams

2. Priest Holmes

3. Tomlinson

4. Travis henry

5. Deuce McAllister

6. Tiki Barber

7. Ahman Green

8. Michael Bennett

9. Shaun Alexander

10. Jamal Lewis

 

2003

1. Priest Holmes

2. Jamal Lewis

3. Deuce McAllister

4. Ahman Green

5. Shaun Alexander

6. Stephen Davis

7. Clinton Portis

8. Curtis Martin

9. Tiki Barber

 

2004

1. Tomlinson

2. Curtis Martin

3. Shaun Alexander

4. Edgerrin James

5. Ahman Green

6. Corey Dillon

7. Tiki Barber

8. Clinton Portis

 

2005

1. Shaun Alexander

2. Tiki Barber

3. Tomlinson

4. Shaun Alexander

5. Larry Johnson

6. Rudi Johnson

 

So basically he cracked the top 5 at his position 3 times in his career and was never even close to being the best at his position for any one year, and we're supposed to be shoehorning him into the HOF? Nah. That's rewarding longevity way too much. I'd rather put Terrell Davis in there than Bettis.

[kmbryant09 1]

I was originally on the fence about Bettis, but after looking at the stats, I'd hafta agree with 'nobody'.

 

Sure, Bettis rushed for 1,000 yards 8 times, but he averaged <3.8 ypc in 4 of those 8 years.

 

Like you've said, he was rarely, if ever, an 'elite RB'. I know he scored a bunch of TD's late in his career, but he averaged slightly less than .5 career TD's per game. That's not very impressive for a big, goalline RB. Throw in the fact that he was never much of a receiving threat out of the backfield (an understatement), and I'm struggling to find a solid argument as to why he would be in the Hall of Fame.

[LunaTick 29]

Problem for Carter is an issue with a few WR's from the period just prior to him having not been put in yet.

It seems in protest for these few not getting in, they have begun blocking others who should have made it in by their second ballot.

 

Either these others guys need to get in, or the protest/block votes need to cave and let Carter and others in as they deserve to be.

 

As a Vikes fan, I found it odd that John Randle made it in first ballot and not Carter.

[JT 137]

Problem for Carter is an issue with a few WR's from the period just prior to him having not been put in yet.

It seems in protest for these few not getting in, they have begun blocking others who should have made it in by their second ballot.

 

Either these others guys need to get in, or the protest/block votes need to cave and let Carter and others in as they deserve to be.

 

As a Vikes fan, I found it odd that John Randle made it in first ballot and not Carter.

 

I believe the real problem is that HOF voters are rejecting WR stats amassed after the rules changes began to swing things decidedly in favor of the passing game.

 

Doesn't seem fair, as I'm not sure they'll apply the same standards to QB. But it appears to be the reality.

[Gepetto 988]

Really?

 

Just sizing up his typical good years, here are the players by year who were better than him that year and also outshined his typical good year. For most of these there are probably a few people i even left off since I basically just stopped putting people in after a while.

 

1993

1. Emmit Smith

2. Thurman Thomas

3. Jerome Bettis

 

1994

1. Emmit Smith

2. Barry Sanders

3. Marshall Faulk

4. Chris Warren

5. Natrone Means

6. Jerome Bettis

 

1995

1. Emmit Smith

2. Barry Sanders

3. Curtis Martin

4. Ricky Watters

5. Marshall Faulk

6. Chris Warren

 

1996

1. Terrell Davis

2. Ricky Watters

3. Eddie George

4. Curtis Martin

5. Barry Sanders

6. Jerome Bettis

 

1997

1. Barry Sanders

2. Terrell Davis

3. Dorsey Levens

4. Jerome Bettis

 

1998

1. Terrell Davis

2. Jamal Anderson

3. Barry Sanders

4. Marshall Faulk

5. Garrison Hearst

6. Curtis Martin

7. Emmitt Smith

8. Eddie George

 

1999

1. Marshall Faulk

2. Edgerrin James

3. Eddie George

4. Curtis Martin

5. Emmit Smith

6. Stephen Davis

 

2000

1. Edgerrin James

2. Marshall Faulk

3. Eddie George

4. Robert Smith

5. Stephen Davis

6. Ricky Watters

7. Charlie Garner

8. Ahman Green

9. Tiki Barber

10. Corey Dillon

11. James Stewart

12. Mike Anderson

 

2001

1. Priest Holmes

2. Marshall Faulk

3. Ahman Green

4. Tomlinson

5. Curtis Martin

6. Ricky Williams

7. Stephen Davis

 

2002

1. Ricky Williams

2. Priest Holmes

3. Tomlinson

4. Travis henry

5. Deuce McAllister

6. Tiki Barber

7. Ahman Green

8. Michael Bennett

9. Shaun Alexander

10. Jamal Lewis

 

2003

1. Priest Holmes

2. Jamal Lewis

3. Deuce McAllister

4. Ahman Green

5. Shaun Alexander

6. Stephen Davis

7. Clinton Portis

8. Curtis Martin

9. Tiki Barber

 

2004

1. Tomlinson

2. Curtis Martin

3. Shaun Alexander

4. Edgerrin James

5. Ahman Green

6. Corey Dillon

7. Tiki Barber

8. Clinton Portis

 

2005

1. Shaun Alexander

2. Tiki Barber

3. Tomlinson

4. Shaun Alexander

5. Larry Johnson

6. Rudi Johnson

 

So basically he cracked the top 5 at his position 3 times in his career and was never even close to being the best at his position for any one year, and we're supposed to be shoehorning him into the HOF? Nah. That's rewarding longevity way too much. I'd rather put Terrell Davis in there than Bettis.

 

 

4 times he was top 6. And that rookie year, Emmitt barely edged him out for the rushing title which is the elite year compared to one of the all time greats. And that is not even looking at all the touchdowns he scored and first downs and wearing down the defense because he could both juke and power over defenders...not many backs did that, in fact for that entire time span that Bettis played he was the only running back with such a unique combination of great agility/cutting ability/moves and power.