Greene vs. Ingram vs. B. Wells

[Fearsome 22]

Ingram, Greene and Beanie Wells seem identical. What are your thoughts on production this year and who you would grab if you were drafting now and/or which one of these would you start as a RB2?

 

I think all are 4th-5th round guys and could be in the 800-900 yard range with 5-7 TD's. Pretty mediocre but decent RB2 numbers.

 

Drafting tonight and am looking at these three pretty hard.

[Portis26 0]

Greene - % of touches

Ingram - still have PT & ivory

Wells - he just plain ol stinks IMO

[Mike Nice 40]

Greene - % of touches

Ingram - still have PT & ivory

Wells - he just plain ol stinks IMO

 

 

Honestly i think Wells will have the best year out of the group

[themorey 1]

Honestly i think Wells will have the best year out of the group

 

Jets and Saints have significantly better lines than Arizona.

 

Ingram has to contend with PT and Sproles. He showed flashes in the pre-season but PT has been a pretty good back when healthy (don't get me started on last years debacle).

 

Greene should be the main man for the Jets. Sure LT will get some looks and maybe, maybe Joe McKnight but Greene should be a lock for close to 300 touches, to include about 20 receptions.

 

Go with Greene.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Wells

Greene

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Ingram <--when was the last time a SAINTS running back punched out 1,100 rushing yards and 8+ TD?

[Joey Gladstone 33]

Wells

Greene

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Ingram <--when was the last time a SAINTS running back punched out 1,100 rushing yards and 8+ TD?

 

Duece!

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Duece!

 

Bingo! Pre Payton!

2003.

[Criper 24]

Bingo! Pre Payton!

2003.

Just for the sake accuracy, in 2003 Duece did run for over 1600 yards, however he only ran for 8 td's. In 2006, in Payton's first year, Deuce ran for a shade under 1100 yards with 10 td's on the ground.

 

Back to OP's original post,I rank them this way simply due to the projected amount of touches each could get:

 

Greene

Beanie

Ingram

[giantwarrior 1]

I like Wells and have a feeling the Cards will surprise people this year. So for me, it would be Wells and then Greene, no thanks on Ingram.

[Maroon Bells 18]

Wells

Greene

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Ingram <--when was the last time a SAINTS running back punched out 1,100 rushing yards and 8+ TD?

 

 

The Saints didn't trade away their 2012 first round draft choice in order take a timeshare guy. They want Ingram to be THE guy. He'll start out just getting a share and most of the goal line carries. But I'd be surprised if he weren't the bell cow by mid year. That's the kind of back he is.

[FeelingMN 273]

Bingo! Pre Payton!

2003.

 

To be fair, the Saints RBs always seem to be gimpy....and they drafted Reggie #2, which meant the economics dictated he receive a good chunk of playing time at the expense of some other RB.

 

[Durka Durka? 2]

The Saints didn't trade away their 2012 first round draft choice in order take a timeshare guy. They want Ingram to be THE guy.

 

Yeah, eventually. I doubt it happens this season.

 

They didn't go out and get sproles for no reason either.

[Canadianfan 76]

The Saints didn't trade away their 2012 first round draft choice in order take a timeshare guy. They want Ingram to be THE guy. He'll start out just getting a share and most of the goal line carries. But I'd be surprised if he weren't the bell cow by mid year. That's the kind of back he is.

 

If they wanted him to be THE guy why did they re sign Thomas and bring in Sproles? To watch him? All 3 will be a part of the offence in an offence that will always be pass first. I could see him getting 8 td's because he's the goal line back, but don't expect a lot of yards. Next year might be a different story though.

[mgs316 14]

Pretty obvious Greene has the most opportunity and as long as he moves the chains he's the man, you can plug him into the lineup and not worry. Comes down to talent, do you think he has it or not? At worst he's would seem to be a 1000/7 guy, at best Mendenhall last year.

[montana 89]

Didn't Ivory get cut?

[holleratme 0]

To be fair, all the people saying that the last 1100yds 8td+ rusher for the Saints were pre-Payton: well there hasn't been a back as talented as Ingram since then.

 

Also, to the people saying "Why did they re-sign Thomas, then?": teams do re-sign backups and non-starters, you know.

 

[Durka Durka? 2]

Also, to the people saying "Why did they re-sign Thomas, then?": teams do re-sign backups and non-starters, you know.

 

 

Yes, teams do re-sign backups and non-starters. They also re-sign non-backups and starters.

 

I think the better questions, with regard to preseason, are "Why is Pierre Thomas splitting carries with Ingram, then?" And "Why do the Saints use Darren Sproles on passing downs, then?"

[holleratme 0]

Yes, teams do re-sign backups and non-starters. They also re-sign non-backups and starters.

 

I think the better questions, with regard to preseason, are "Why is Pierre Thomas splitting carries with Ingram, then?" And "Why do the Saints use Darren Sproles on passing downs, then?"

 

 

Okay, so you responded to my point, with the point I responded to...

 

As to your first question, they're splitting carries because they're going to split carries. But that doesn't always mean a 50/50 split. J. Charles and Thomas Jones "split" carries, but we all know who the man is there.

 

Your second question is not so black/white. Of course they're going to use Sproles on 3rd/passing downs, but he's not going to be the only one out of the three RBs that is solely used in those situations. He could line up in the slot, used as a decoy... basically we all know he's going to take R. Bush's old role. Plus, they can't possibly ask wee-man to pass protect and pick up blitzes on every 3rd/passing down, that would be a disaster.

[Maroon Bells 18]

If they wanted him to be THE guy why did they re sign Thomas and bring in Sproles? To watch him? All 3 will be a part of the offence in an offence that will always be pass first. I could see him getting 8 td's because he's the goal line back, but don't expect a lot of yards. Next year might be a different story though.

 

Well they certainly didn't bring Sproles in to compete with Ingram. It almost sounds like that's what you're suggesting. Thomas is Thomas. He'll get a lot of carries. As will the change up Sproles. But Ingram will be getting the bulk of the carries by mid year if not sooner.

[Fantasy Noob 10]

Wells, Greene, Ingram is my order of preference mostly based on ADP.

 

By ADP Greene is gone typically in 3rd/4th and in my ppr leagues Ingram consistently goes in the 4th round.

Wells can be had in the 6th-7th of 12 team ppr leagues consistently. Thats value and in all likely hood at this spot he will be your 3rd/4th RB.

 

Greene-he has never done it and the Jets are dying for him to step up and be the man, that O-line has been shuffled and could take a couple weeks to get going but has some great talent on it. I just don't trust him.

 

Wells-only a believer due to the situation, there is no other RB that is a threat at the moment, Kolb should dramatically improve the offense. Wells knows he needs to deliver this year if he wants a new contract and be seen as a RB#1 if he doesn't he will bounce around for a couple years as a #2RB and fade away. I hope his agent was smart enough to tell him this is his year to cash in.

 

Ingram-hes a rookie and a between the tackle banger, the SCC is a tough conference, but he is going to take a beating like he has never taken before in his life and play a 1/3 more games in the regular season than he did in college. If he does not get injured by week 12 he will hit the wall. His biggest contribution if they do stick to the time share might be during the playoffs. Not what I want from my 4th rounder. But I would give strong consideration to coming back and snagging him as a throw in on a trade in week 10 if he underperforms and the Saints stick with RBBC. His talent will win out but likely not till next season or late this season if he survives that long.

[Boilermaker04 11]

I don't understand how you can think Howling and Taylor are not significant hurdles to Wells being a fantasy starter. I don't see the opportunity for him to be a stud unless he blows up early in the season and takes touches away from the other two, and also learns how to pass protect, not fumble, and stay healthy.

 

Greene and Ingram were both nice if you drafted a few weeks ago, but I'm not buying Greene in the 3rd and have too many Mathews flashbacks to take Ingram in the 4th. I do think both have a good situation and Greene in particular will put up decent numbers ala Benson.

[Durka Durka? 2]

Okay, so you responded to my point, with the point I responded to...

 

What I was getting at was that neither point advances the argument in any way. Of course teams re sign both backups and starters.

[DexterMorgan 5]

I don't understand how you can think Howling and Taylor are not significant hurdles to Wells being a fantasy starter. I don't see the opportunity for him to be a stud unless he blows up early in the season and takes touches away from the other two, and also learns how to pass protect, not fumble, and stay healthy.

 

Greene and Ingram were both nice if you drafted a few weeks ago, but I'm not buying Greene in the 3rd and have too many Mathews flashbacks to take Ingram in the 4th. I do think both have a good situation and Greene in particular will put up decent numbers ala Benson.

 

Taylor is worthless and S-H is the 3rd down back. If Wells is healthy he'll get 75%+ of the 1st and 2nd down carries.

[Boilermaker04 11]

Taylor is worthless and S-H is the 3rd down back. If Wells is healthy he'll get 75%+ of the 1st and 2nd down carries.

 

Yeah he can't run, but Taylor is one of the best pass protect RB around and until I see Wells do it in the real season on a regular basis, I don't think he can do it. This really limits his upside in my mind. If he had really improved in this area, why bring in Taylor? I agree that ARI didn't need his 2.4 ypc.

[DexterMorgan 5]

Yeah he can't run, but Taylor is one of the best pass protect RB around and until I see Wells do it in the real season on a regular basis, I don't think he can do it. This really limits his upside in my mind. If he had really improved in this area, why bring in Taylor? I agree that ARI didn't need his 2.4 ypc.

 

Insurance. That's the only reason he's there.

[Bones40 0]

AP didn't start as a rookie either, but was still a very good fantasy back to have. I think Ingram will have a good year (not saying he's AP or anything). I would rate them Ingram > Greene > Wells.

[holleratme 0]

What I was getting at was that neither point advances the argument in any way. Of course teams re sign both backups and starters.

 

Which was exactly my point...

[Durka Durka? 2]

Also, to the people saying "Why did they re-sign Thomas, then?": teams do re-sign backups and non-starters, you know.

 

While that may have been your intention, this original post makes it sound like you think Pierre Thomas was re-signed to be a backup. Otherwise, why even point it out? My bad that you don't explain yourself well.

[holleratme 0]

While that may have been your intention, this original post makes it sound like you think Pierre Thomas was re-signed to be a backup. Otherwise, why even point it out? My bad that you don't explain yourself well.

 

I pointed it out, because people were making redundant arguments. People were asking "Why did they re-sign Thomas?" in response to some speculation that Ingram will be "the man." So in other words, what they were asking was "Why did they re-sign Thomas if he's just going to be a back-up?"

 

Hence, my response.

 

I don't think there was a need for any explanation. If you didn't pick up on where the conversation was going, that's fine. But don't try to place some sort of blame on me because you weren't following what I was saying.

[rocco91 0]

While that may have been your intention, this original post makes it sound like you think Pierre Thomas was re-signed to be a backup. Otherwise, why even point it out? My bad that you don't explain yourself well.

 

Pierre Thomas was signed BEFORE the draft.. at the draft the Saints KNEW they were not picking a RB in the 1st round with their pick(they went DE) when the opportunity to move back up late in the 1st to pick Ingram was there they took it because Ingram was not picked to last that long....

 

Bottom line is Thomas will get carries because he has proven himself and Peyton likes him(a dude that was not drafted high, worked his butt off and became the starter for a SB team)

Imgram will get carries too because he is a beast, a 1st rd pick and the fans want to see him

Sproles will get carries and catches because he is dam good with the ball in space and Peyton will get him in space!!

 

So to answer your question it will be a RBBC unless Pierre or ingram get hurt then the other becomes a viable ff starter

 

Wells, Greene, Ingram

[DAAA_BEARS 0]

Greene by a mile! I wouldn't even put him in the same group as Wells or Ingram.

[Kent 228]

Didn't Ivory get cut?

 

No. Still recovering from injury. PUP list, back week 7.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

I've got Ingram and Greene as my 2/3 RB's. Matchup plays. Yippee

[da_mane_man 1]

i think greene is ahead just cause he has the opportunity and the committment from the coaching staff to RUN as well as a very good o-line.

 

beanie is next cause he's the only guy there and that offense might move the ball some if kolb can prove to be somewhat competent. their o-line is TERRIBLE however so i have my reservations. i'm also not sure how his hands are out of the backfield. stephens-howling might get 3rd down work.

 

ingram is last. that team spreads the wealth around and is SUPER frustrating. now take into account that this is a rookie RB, there are 2 other RBs that WILL get touches, AND that this is a team that relies on the pass HEAVILY ... and you have someone who should be going around where jacobs is going.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

ingram is last. that team spreads the wealth around and is SUPER frustrating. now take into account that this is a rookie RB, there are 2 other RBs that WILL get touches, AND that this is a team that relies on the pass HEAVILY ... and you have someone who should be going around where jacobs is going.

You may be right but I have a feeling the past may be the past in NO. Don't assume that NO will always be the same style of team. They've been attempting to build a dominant defense for a while now and the addition of Ingram could mean they would like to balance out their team a little.

[throttlers 0]

Ingram.....and it's not even close IMO. Yes, I am a Saints homer. I have watched the stable of running backs. Yes they have a number of guys.....but almost every team does these days. Ingram is a clear standout among the stable of backs. If you watch these guys in real life, it is a totally different feel when Ingram carries the ball. They got him to solve the issue of having to throw all the time on third and short because they often didn't have confidence in their RB's to get the tough yards. That is not the case with Ingram. He is on a much better offence than Greene or Wells and he will get the goal line carries. I also think he is a good bit more talented than either of the other 2. While Ingram may not get the yards of some of the other top backs, I think his TD production could be very good. I will go out on a limb and project 900-1000 yards and around 12 TDs.

[parrot 789]

You may be right but I have a feeling the past may be the past in NO. Don't assume that NO will always be the same style of team. They've been attempting to build a dominant defense for a while now and the addition of Ingram could mean they would like to balance out their team a little.

 

Payton has come right out and said openly that they want to balance the offense more and take some of the pressure off Brees, who they felt like was just asked to do too much last year. I have to think Ingram is intended as an important cog in that strategy.

[da_mane_man 1]

Payton has come right out and said openly that they want to balance the offense more and take some of the pressure off Brees, who they felt like was just asked to do too much last year. I have to think Ingram is intended as an important cog in that strategy.

 

you guys are right, they WANT to balance it more. but when it comes down to it, in those BIG moments, are they going to put the ball in a rookie rb's hands or in drew brees' hands? every team says they want more balance, but they always end up stitcking to what has worked for them in the past. the saints won the superbowl with brees throwing and i don't think there's a problem with putting the load on his shoulders every game. he can handle it.

 

i'm not saying ingram isn't SUPER talented. i'm not saying he's not their best back. the situation is what i don't like. if he was going to get 20 carries a game, i'd be the first one throwing my shoulder out to reach for him. remember all the hype for PT at the beginning of last year?

[Fantasy Noob 10]

For all you Ingram lovers out there are you at all concerned that he is playing a 17game schedule over a 12 game schedule for the first time and is not considered an elusive back (meaning he is going to get hit alot)?

 

The difference between 17 and 12 sounds stupidly small but these guys are getting hit by some of the largest, strongest, fastest men on the planet anywhere from 10-20 times a game just counting the tackle that brings him down. Ingram is widely praised for shrugging off first contact, so maybe his hit total doubles.

 

Is it just me or does this kind of pounding to a rookie sound like trouble? The RBBC is the only chance I see for him making it through the full first season, but I am really worried he hits the wall in week 12.

 

All my drafts are in the books and I avoided Ingram, but if he starts out slow is he worth targeting in a trade?

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

you guys are right, they WANT to balance it more. but when it comes down to it, in those BIG moments, are they going to put the ball in a rookie rb's hands or in drew brees' hands? every team says they want more balance, but they always end up stitcking to what has worked for them in the past. the saints won the superbowl with brees throwing and i don't think there's a problem with putting the load on his shoulders every game. he can handle it.

It sounds like you're over-analyzing. The ball will be in Brees' hands when it counts, but Brees may choose to hand it off to Ingram too if it's the wiser choice.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the NO Offense the most balanced it's been under Payton's watch in the year they won the SB? It stands to reason that they would not want to have a 70-30 pass/run percentage.

 

For all you Ingram lovers out there are you at all concerned that he is playing a 17game schedule over a 12 game schedule for the first time and is not considered an elusive back (meaning he is going to get hit alot)?

 

The difference between 17 and 12 sounds stupidly small but these guys are getting hit by some of the largest, strongest, fastest men on the planet anywhere from 10-20 times a game just counting the tackle that brings him down. Ingram is widely praised for shrugging off first contact, so maybe his hit total doubles.

 

Is it just me or does this kind of pounding to a rookie sound like trouble? The RBBC is the only chance I see for him making it through the full first season, but I am really worried he hits the wall in week 12.

 

Adrian Peterson went RBBC in his rookie year and did just fine. Plus, the Minny Offense was not as good then as the NO Offense is now. More opportunity for Ingram to succeed.