What's with Mike Wallace?

[crowes 1]

...does it need a #1 and a deal to take him from a capped out steeler team? anyone sniffing

[IronCity Steel 0]

Wallace signed one-year tender for $2.7m. Since he is a restricted FA, he can negotiate a long-term deal during the RFA period with any team, including Pittsburgh. If another team attempts to sign Wallace, Pittsburgh has the option to match that offer or receive a first round draft pick from the team that signs him.

 

If no team offers Wallace a long-term deal, he'll play for the $2.7m in 2012, then become a UFA after the 2012 season.

[murf74 461]

Marshall only got 2 third rounders...nobody will give up a 1st rounder for Wallace

[IGotWorms 3,315]

I bet the Pats would do a 2nd rounder...but of course the Steelers would never trade Wallace to one of their top competitors in the AFC.

[Dimenally 1]

The issue isn't about PIT trading Wallace. I'm not sure that's been a realistic scenario in all the talk that's started since he got the 1st round tender offer.

 

I think murf was using a similar, but different, situation with Marshall to express the strength of the WR market.

 

As stated above, PIT has Wallace for $2.7 million this year. Another team may decide that they are willing to give up their 1st rounder to sign Wallace to a free agent contract, IF he chooses to agree to the contract offer from that team AND the contract is set up such that PIT can't (or won't) match it to keep him.

 

Murf's contention is that with Marshall only garnering 2x3rd rounders, it's unrealistic to think that anyone will make a free agent offer to Wallace knowing they will have to give up their 1st rounder to PIT if he signs and they don't match.

 

Personally, I think there are some teams that would be willing to do so, especially with the WR market shrinking quickly. VJax, Colston, Garcon, Wayne, and others are already snagged. If one of the teams at the bottom of the 1st round and need WR help, Wallace is a young stud entering his prime who can be locked up for the forseeable future for the cost of basically an early 2nd round pick.

[420allstars 13]

The issue isn't about PIT trading Wallace. I'm not sure that's been a realistic scenario in all the talk that's started since he got the 1st round tender offer.

 

I think murf was using a similar, but different, situation with Marshall to express the strength of the WR market.

 

As stated above, PIT has Wallace for $2.7 million this year. Another team may decide that they are willing to give up their 1st rounder to sign Wallace to a free agent contract, IF he chooses to agree to the contract offer from that team AND the contract is set up such that PIT can't (or won't) match it to keep him.

 

Murf's contention is that with Marshall only garnering 2x3rd rounders, it's unrealistic to think that anyone will make a free agent offer to Wallace knowing they will have to give up their 1st rounder to PIT if he signs and they don't match.

 

Personally, I think there are some teams that would be willing to do so, especially with the WR market shrinking quickly. VJax, Colston, Garcon, Wayne, and others are already snagged. If one of the teams at the bottom of the 1st round and need WR help, Wallace is a young stud entering his prime who can be locked up for the forseeable future for the cost of basically an early 2nd round pick.

 

so tell me who NE or NY are going to draft in the 30's of this years draft that is close to wallace in skill and potential

 

is he not worth a last first and say 7-10mil for 4 years?

[redtodd 7]

Marshall only got 2 third rounders...nobody will give up a 1st rounder for Wallace

 

As a Pats fan, I would gladly give up the #31 pick for him. Who could they possibly get at #31 that would compare to Wallace?

 

Plus, as far I am aware of Wallace doesn't punch women so I wouldn't compare him to Marshall.

[murf74 461]

As a Pats fan, I would gladly give up the #31 pick for him. Who could they possibly get at #31 that would compare to Wallace?

 

Plus, as far I am aware of Wallace doesn't punch women so I wouldn't compare him to Marshall.

We would but NFL drastically overrates their draft picks.

 

I stand by my comments in past that he is 2nd best wr on Pit

[Pecos Rattlers 5]

I agree that he's worth the 31st pick, but the Pats also have the 27th pick. Anyone know which they would have to give up?

 

SF has the 30th pick & is also in huge need of good wr. Signing an aging Randy Moss shouldn't prevent them from considering this move: they are only a few pieces away from a Super Bowl.

[mrmcgibblets 0]

I agree that he's worth the 31st pick, but the Pats also have the 27th pick. Anyone know which they would have to give up?

 

Pats would have to give up the 31st (their pick). Picks acquired in trades do not get traded on the tender. A team like the Bengals would give up their pick not the one they got from the Raiders for Palmer.

[Pavlov 0]

I agree that he's worth the 31st pick, but the Pats also have the 27th pick. Anyone know which they would have to give up?

 

SF has the 30th pick & is also in huge need of good wr. Signing an aging Randy Moss shouldn't prevent them from considering this move: they are only a few pieces away from a Super Bowl.

 

They have to give up their own pick (not a pick acquired via trade), so it would be the 31st. It's the same rule that got everyone upset when they had to give up the pick for SpyGate.

 

While Wallace had the second-best season of any Pittsburgh WR last season, I wouldn't go so far as to say he's the second-best receiver on the team. Brown looks great (I say this as a guy who lives in Pittsburgh and follows the team closely, even if I don't root for them), but Wallace's body of work over time wins out for me. Down the road Brown might be better but right now, I'm sticking with Wallace.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

As a Pats fan, I would gladly give up the #31 pick for him. Who could they possibly get at #31 that would compare to Wallace?

 

Plus, as far I am aware of Wallace doesn't punch women so I wouldn't compare him to Marshall.

I dont get the wallace to the pats deal. The pats need defense, not offense. I understand that with wallace their core of wr/te would be almost impossible to stop, but i still think that with as horrible a secondary as they have they need either a solid pass rush or more db help.

[Matt Mueller 146]

Ok enough with Wallace is the second best receiver on Pitt talk. A brown is great young receiver, and does many things better, but he caught 2 tds last year.

 

Wallace has 18 over 2 seasons.

[redtodd 7]

We would but NFL drastically overrates their draft picks.

 

I stand by my comments in past that he is 2nd best wr on Pit

 

Really? How so?

[jgcrawfish 232]

We would but NFL drastically overrates their draft picks.

 

I stand by my comments in past that he is 2nd best wr on Pit

 

I'm not sure I agree here, but I will say it's definitely close. I think Brown benefits from Wallace pulling safety coverage over to prevent the big TD.

 

Really? How so?

 

I think murf views Wallace as more of a one-trick-pony (although, his one trick is REALLY good). Brown is, despite having considerably less time on the field, a more polished runner, much better in traffic and has much better hands. He's a much better overall possession receiver. As I said, I'm not sure he's superior, or even equal, to Wallace at this point, but I fully expect his TD's to pick up this year and he'll definitely catch more balls than Wallace. When it's all said and done at the end of the season it wouldn't surprise me to see Brown with more FF points than Wallace, particularly in PPR leagues.

 

I think a lot of this discussion is moot. The Steelers cleared money under cap and are really just waiting to see if the market for Wallace is going to be set by another team, in fact I think everybody is waiting. If someone like NE was to come in and offer a contract, all it takes is somebody picking 1 pick ahead to offer the same contract and trump them. And all that while the Steelers sit and wait to see how it plays out. I don't believe they have any intention of letting him go, if they did they wouldn't have endeavored to clear so much cap space. Someone is going to have to put probably over $7-8 million a season on the table to pry Wallace away.

[shovelheadt 62]

Marshall only got 2 third rounders...nobody will give up a 1st rounder for Wallace

 

Multiple teams would do this. That's wishful thinking.

[nobody 2,044]

Marshall only got 2 third rounders...nobody will give up a 1st rounder for Wallace

 

 

Yeah but Wallace probably doesn't punch chicks in the face.

[Dimenally 1]

so tell me who NE or NY are going to draft in the 30's of this years draft that is close to wallace in skill and potential

 

is he not worth a last first and say 7-10mil for 4 years?

 

I'm pretty sure we're in agreement on this issue? I'm not sure if you're trying to agree with me or think I hold the opposite position.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Someone is going to have to put probably over $7-8 million a season on the table to pry Wallace away.

 

Given what we've seen from the market thus far in free agency, I'd say Wallace is probably worth at least the 11 million per year that VJax got. So it's not hard to believe that someone would offer 8 or more

[nobody 2,044]

If you're the Ravens, don't you try to sign him for about 6 million, just to make the Steelers have to pay him extra this year to keep him?

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

If you're the Ravens, don't you try to sign him for about 6 million, just to make the Steelers have to pay him extra this year to keep him?

 

I think the Bungles should make an offer.

 

Its a win win. If the steelers match, you cost them some money. If they don't, you get a great young receiver to pair with AJ Green, and you weaken a rival.

 

Or the focking dumb sh!t browns for that matter. God knows they could use a decent offensive player.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Or the focking dumb sh!t browns for that matter. God knows they could use a decent offensive player.

 

Hey, what did Mike Wallace ever do to you?!

[jgcrawfish 232]

Given what we've seen from the market thus far in free agency, I'd say Wallace is probably worth at least the 11 million per year that VJax got. So it's not hard to believe that someone would offer 8 or more

 

I'm not sure he's going to command the #'s that Jackson got, although he likely should. The Bucs had a lot of cap room and were in desperate need of a WR, so I think his situation is a bit unique. I posted my 7-8 million estimate before DJax (Eagles) signed his deal, clearly Wallace is worth more than that. The Steelers also just restructured Casey Hampton's contract to clear a little more cap room. I'm not sure it will matter though, at 9-11 million a season, they can't afford Wallace if that's what his value is.

[murf74 461]

Multiple teams would do this. That's wishful thinking.

 

Multiple teams? Mot one has stepped forward yet.

 

Not wishful thinking its history on my side. Teams RARELY give up 1st rounder for a current player.

 

Would I? In a heartbeat but NFL owners are he'll bent in overvalue of all draft picks. If I were Rams I would rather have Wallace who us proven over that WR from osu.

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

There is no rush for a team to sign Wallace. It makes sense for teams to wait until the draft gets closer.

 

 

I think Wallace stays in Pittsburgh, but if he does get signed away i bet it is within a week of the draft.

[mgs316 14]

The Vikings are a couple years away obviously and I wouldn't waste time with free agency this season and save the money but...

 

I'd throw a good chunk of money to lock up this kid for the long term. Let him and Ponder get used to each other this season. Then once AP is 100% the following season you can start filling in the pieces with other free agents. I'd imagine with his speed on the turf he could be deadly. Kind of how they got Jared Allen and locked up the position for the past 4 years.

 

Assuming Ponder isn't a complete bum: Ponder, Peterson, Wallace, Harvin, Carlson, Rudolph ain't too bad. Not sure what kind of space they have post Carlson signing.

 

Edit: Then they can grab Kalil and start moving forward with the secondary.

 

Edit 2: so wait, would the bikes have to give up this years number 1 pick? Guess I'm not clear. If yes, ignore everything I just said.

[sirensong 111]

As a Pats fan, I would gladly give up the #31 pick for him. Who could they possibly get at #31 that would compare to Wallace?

 

you're forgetting the financial equation. given the new rookie scale, the #31 pick is probably going to come cheaper than a new contract for wallace, and would therefore give better cap value.

 

so it's more complicated than you suggest.

[murf74 461]

Just read an article on this subject. Writer suggested that an offer for Wallace wouldn't come until later in the process. One factor is that you can get these other FA (like Vjax) outright without giving up a draft. Wallace you would need to offer him so good a contract that Steelers wouldn't match (which would probably include a ton of upfront cash) and then end up giving away a prized #1 pick. and after you offer him that contract you have to wait probably a week to see if you get him. that right there probably kept teams from offering during this first week.

 

but I still don't think anyone is going to break the bank AND give up a #1 pick. It is a double edged sword

[Fantasy Noob 10]

If I had to guess several teams are just waiting to see how the WR market shakes out. I would speculate that no one drafting before 20th would give up a pick for a current WR. Silly considering he is a star and your getting an semi-unknown but I think GM's overvalue those mid to late 1st round picks a bit much. They all point the the handful of stars drafted late and journeymen at positions of need, but alot depends on cap room too.

 

I think 49ers, Patriots, Bengals all will make offers. In all likelyhood so will Denver if Manning decides to sign there, god knows they have the cap space. Not sure the 49ers have the cap space and their recent moves at WR, but boy would that be a nice addition.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

If I had to guess several teams are just waiting to see how the WR market shakes out. I would speculate that no one drafting before 20th would give up a pick for a current WR. Silly considering he is a star and your getting an semi-unknown but I think GM's overvalue those mid to late 1st round picks a bit much. They all point the the handful of stars drafted late and journeymen at positions of need, but alot depends on cap room too.

 

I think 49ers, Patriots, Bengals all will make offers. In all likelyhood so will Denver if Manning decides to sign there, god knows they have the cap space. Not sure the 49ers have the cap space and their recent moves at WR, but boy would that be a nice addition.

 

I do not think there will be multiple offers. One team might step up but I don't see a multi-team bidding war with a first round pick thrown into the mix.

 

Which is exactly why it might make sense for a team like the Pats to make an offer. You're only bidding against the Steelers, not 31 other teams.

[IronCity Steel 0]

If I had to guess several teams are just waiting to see how the WR market shakes out. I would speculate that no one drafting before 20th would give up a pick for a current WR. Silly considering he is a star and your getting an semi-unknown but I think GM's overvalue those mid to late 1st round picks a bit much. They all point the the handful of stars drafted late and journeymen at positions of need, but alot depends on cap room too.

 

I think 49ers, Patriots, Bengals all will make offers. In all likelyhood so will Denver if Manning decides to sign there, god knows they have the cap space. Not sure the 49ers have the cap space and their recent moves at WR, but boy would that be a nice addition.

 

The Pats are out of the picture now, since the Pats signed B Lloyd and gave Welker a new contract. For the 9ers, they need to sign a QB, whether it's P Manning or Alex Smith, also a UFA. After that, SF may not have cap space. Teams have only until April 20 to sign RFAs. The Steelers have cleared a significant amount of cap space, so they're in a better position to match another team's offer.

 

I'll speculate here that no team will attempt to sign Wallace as a RFA, The Steelers could offer him a long-term deal after the draft. Since the new Megatron deal, the price of elite receivers has gone way up.

[murf74 461]

The Pats are out of the picture now, since the Pats signed B Lloyd and gave Welker a new contract. For the 9ers, they need to sign a QB, whether it's P Manning or Alex Smith, also a UFA. After that, SF may not have cap space. Teams have only until April 20 to sign RFAs. The Steelers have cleared a significant amount of cap space, so they're in a better position to match another team's offer.

 

I'll speculate here that no team will attempt to sign Wallace as a RFA, The Steelers could offer him a long-term deal after the draft. Since the new Megatron deal, the price of elite receivers has gone way up.

 

49ers signing Manningham to go with Moss and Crabtree has eliminated 49ers from the Wallace watch list too!

 

That huge contract PLUS a number one pick is too much a price to pay.

[Pecos Rattlers 5]

Yep, looks like he is most likely remaining in Pittsburg now.

 

Denver (if they win the Manning derby) is the only team I can see making an offer now & I think that's pretty unlikely.

 

Their young wide receivers developed a fair amount last year & Manning should instantly make them a much bigger threat.

 

If Denver does sign Manning, I'd think they would rather upgrade the OLine to protect Manning more.

[Raider 84 29]

No team is willing to tie up their money until it gets closer to the deadline to sign restricted free agents. I'm sure a team will likely try to get Wallace closer to April. I believe there is an article about him on CBS sportsline.

[Pecos Rattlers 5]

Earlier in the off-season I would have agreed with you, but most of the teams that had a glaring need at WR & a low first rounder already acquired at least one WR.

 

Which teams do you think are likely to want to give up a #1 and just needs a #1 WR to put them into championship contention? It doesn't make much sense for a rebuilding team to give up a #1 pick when they can get a younger WR and pay them less.

 

Here are teams picking in the second half of the first round:

• 17: Cincinnati. NA, acquired via trade.
  
• 18: San Diego. The Lord of No Rings almost always builds through the draft & already signed Meacham for 6M a year. I don't see SD splurging in FA.
  
• 19: Chicago. Already traded for Brandon Marshal.
  
• 20: Tennessee. Have #1 WR in Kenny Britt & Nate Washington is a decent #2. They do have 28M in cap space, but still this seems unlikely. This only happens if Manning makes it a condition of signing with Tenesse (Hey Bud Adams said he'd do anything ...)
  
• 21: Cincinnati. Have #1 WR in Green and & other young promising WRs. They have the #17 as well, so it makes sense to add more rookie talent to their incredible rookie nucleus from last year.
  
• 22: Cleveland. NA, acquired via trade.
  
• 23: Detroit. No need.
  
• 24: Pittsburgh. NA
  
• 25: Denver. Somewhat of a need, but they have two young promising WRs in Decker and Thomas. They are 40M under the cap, so I suppose they could sign Wallace & Manning & other players. If they get Manning ..
  
• 26: Houston. AJ is getting pretty old, but Houston doesn't have cap space for this. They need a cheap rookie.
  
• 27: New England. NA, this is their trade pick
  
• 28: Green Bay. No need.
  
• 29: Baltimore. Somewhat of a need, but Boldin and Torrey Smith could be enough for them. They are currently only 10M under the cap as well.
  
• 30: San Francisco. Acquired Moss and Manningham.
  
• 31: New England. Acquired Lloyd, Gonzalez and will retain Welker.
  
• 32: Giants. No need.
  

 

edit: updated cleveland's pick as it is not their actual pick

[murf74 461]

Earlier in the off-season I would have agreed with you, but most of the teams that had a glaring need at WR & a low first rounder already acquired at least one WR.

 

Which teams do you think are likely to want to give up a #1 and just needs a #1 WR to put them into championship contention? It doesn't make much sense for a rebuilding team to give up a #1 pick when they can get a younger WR and pay them less.

 

Here are teams picking in the second half of the first round:

• 17: Cincinnati. NA, acquired via trade.
  
• 18: San Diego. The Lord of No Rings almost always builds through the draft & already signed Meacham for 6M a year. I don't see SD splurging in FA.
  
• 19: Chicago. Already traded for Brandon Marshal.
  
• 20: Tennessee. Have #1 WR in Kenny Britt & Nate Washington is a decent #2. They do have 28M in cap space, but still this seems unlikely. This only happens if Manning makes it a condition of signing with Tenesse (Hey Bud Adams said he'd do anything ...)
  
• 21: Cincinnati. Have #1 WR in Green and & other young promising WRs. They have the #17 as well, so it makes sense to add more rookie talent to their incredible rookie nucleus from last year.
  
• 22: Cleveland. Need, but they are rebuilding, so it makes no sense to give up a pick and pay that much.
  
• 23: Detroit. No need.
  
• 24: Pittsburgh. NA
  
• 25: Denver. Somewhat of a need, but they have two young promising WRs in Decker and Thomas. They are 40M under the cap, so I suppose they could sign Wallace & Manning & other players. If they get Manning ..
  
• 26: Houston. AJ is getting pretty old, but Houston doesn't have cap space for this. They need a cheap rookie.
  
• 27: New England. NA, this is their trade pick
  
• 28: Green Bay. No need.
  
• 29: Baltimore. Somewhat of a need, but Boldin and Torrey Smith could be enough for them. They are currently only 10M under the cap as well.
  
• 30: San Francisco. Acquired Moss and Manningham.
  
• 31: New England. Acquired Lloyd, Gonzalez and will retain Welker.
  
• 32: Giants. No need.
  

 

Great analysis as I don't see anyone giving up a top 16 pick.

 

Can't see Baltimore giving Steelers a draft pick or going after Wallace because Torrey Smith is Baltimore's Wallace already.

 

So it's down to Denver really. BTW i don't think that Cleveland pick is tradeable. Their real pick is much higher.

[Pecos Rattlers 5]

Good point on the similarities of Smith & Wallace. Between that and the Baltimore's lack of cap space, they are probably not interested.

 

If Oakland had a first round pick & Davis was still alive, all bets are off ... but they don't and he's not.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

The Pats are out of the picture now, since the Pats signed B Lloyd and gave Welker a new contract. For the 9ers, they need to sign a QB, whether it's P Manning or Alex Smith, also a UFA. After that, SF may not have cap space. Teams have only until April 20 to sign RFAs. The Steelers have cleared a significant amount of cap space, so they're in a better position to match another team's offer.

 

I'll speculate here that no team will attempt to sign Wallace as a RFA, The Steelers could offer him a long-term deal after the draft. Since the new Megatron deal, the price of elite receivers has gone way up.

 

Well the Pats are out with the signing of Lloyd, but they have not given Welker a new contract (yet).

 

Peter King is hypothesizing in the MMQB that the 49'ers are a long-shot to go after Wallace.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/03/19/signings/index.html

Mike Wallace. In the category of "remember where you heard this one,'' if the Niners save $8 million a year by not signing Smith and by paying Johnson a low 2012 cap number, I believe they'd consider making a offer for Pittsburgh's restricted free agent. San Francisco knows it would have to surrender the 30th pick plus a contract in the neighborhood of $8 million a year to get the speedy Wallace, because Pittsburgh would have the chance to match any deal offered to Wallace. This is a longshot, but don't be stunned to see it happen -- if Manning jilts San Francisco and Smith runs off too.

[JT 137]

He hasn't been the same since Andy Rooney died.

[murf74 461]

Quick Summary:

 

You guys: "oh it's a given someone would give up a first rounder for Wallace"

 

Me "nobody gives up first round picks"

 

You guys "wishfull thinking"

 

Fast forward April 20th times up

 

Me "I TOLD YOU SO"

 

Not even one sniff for the 2nd best WR on the Steelers (you can revisit this in January for that I told you so)