Straight White Male

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

The M part of SWM is in trouble. Every level of higher education is majority female. You know how women always say "The world will be better if we were in charge?" Well boys, we're gonna find out soon.

[MDC 7,225]

Although I'd probably agree with the premise that on the whole, exceptions notwithstanding, straight white males have an easier time in life for a variety of reasons, I think this is a really dumb, trite way to present that argument and the kind of blog post that's easily mocked and dismissed by anyone who isn't part of the choir already. And I say that as a straight white male who's led a mostly charmed life and feels lucky as hell for it.

[naomi 356]

I sure as fock wouldn't change sides. You guys can complain about how we can't say nigger and wimmens get all the scholarship money, but I'll take the pros v cons in this one every single time.

 

"Oh noooooo, there's a gay man on every sitcom! It's soooooo hard being me in America." Uh huh. We're the only group on the planet that complains when people level the playing field. It's almost sad, but it's way more hilarious.

 

What are the pros? I don't really think SWMs have anything on non SWMs in CA (efforts to level the playing field might actually translate into having less....kind of like Voltaire's story). Maybe in KY though

[IGotWorms 4,057]

Is this the thread where we all bemoan how hard it is to be a white man? Poor us

[Me_2006 14]

What are the pros? I don't really think SWMs have anything on non SWMs in CA (efforts to level the playing field might actually translate into having less....kind of like Voltaire's story). Maybe in KY though

 

I think they're almost invisible to us at this point, and it starts early on. If education serves as the means of advancement in this country, then control of it essentially makes you the gatekeeper. Elementary schools most closely model the white, middle class household as far as the routine, the way people communicate, the rules, etc. The authority/subject model is patriarchal too, even if it's mostly women that incorporate it.

 

Then on the collegiate level, it's more of the same. While it's flooded with liberalism and all that, the very language of Academia is straight, white and male. Entrance standards are based on long-established measurements that have been built around evaluations from upper class white guys from the very start. Papers are graded based on that same language. It's all basically learning how to play the game and sound like those old, rich, white guys want you to sound. How does your writing sound? What are the arguments you use? What are the philosophies you base them upon? Where does your research come from? All SWM dominated.

 

I obviously always had a much easier time with it than a lot of people do because that's the environment I was raised in. It weeds out 'other' dialects and discourse communities, so your options are either exclusion or assimilation. Again, it's almost invisible to us because it's existed for so long and is so entrenched, but I think it's there.

 

With that in place, you have to look/sound/act/think like a white male in order to succeed/advance/graduate/whatever and the education level is typically tied to success, money, etc. so it's already playing a role in that regard, but then I think business typically operates under many of the same guises. Hierarchal, patriarchal, the jargon, the attire, etc.

 

We're seeing a lot of it start to change due to the influx of more women, minorities, gays, etc. but there's a looooong history of it all being white male dominated that isn't going to shift overnight. We're also seeing more change as a result of that, so there's a certain duality to it. Basically, there's an obvious movement to get more people who ARENT SWM's into Academia and Business, so things are being arranged to help acclimate them, and then with the increase of them, Academia and Business are starting to more closely resemble an entity that has those groups present within it.

 

Short version of what I'm saying is that Western culture is created with the SWM as the default, and everyone else is sort of operating as an 'other.' Their success essentially depends on their ability to remove that otherness and perform in accordance with the default. Being default by default is an intrinsic leg up as a general rule because it's one less filter you have to force yourself through. It obviously doesn't guarantee success, it just means there's fewer barriers to overcome on the way there.

 

 

Again, all as a general rule, of course.

[naomi 356]

I think they're almost invisible to us at this point, and it starts early on. If education serves as the means of advancement in this country, then control of it essentially makes you the gatekeeper. Elementary schools most closely model the white, middle class household as far as the routine, the way people communicate, the rules, etc. The authority/subject model is patriarchal too, even if it's mostly women that incorporate it.

 

Then on the collegiate level, it's more of the same. While it's flooded with liberalism and all that, the very language of Academia is straight, white and male. Entrance standards are based on long-established measurements that have been built around evaluations from upper class white guys from the very start. Papers are graded based on that same language. It's all basically learning how to play the game and sound like those old, rich, white guys want you to sound. How does your writing sound? What are the arguments you use? What are the philosophies you base them upon? Where does your research come from? All SWM dominated.

 

I obviously always had a much easier time with it than a lot of people do because that's the environment I was raised in. It weeds out 'other' dialects and discourse communities, so your options are either exclusion or assimilation. Again, it's almost invisible to us because it's existed for so long and is so entrenched, but I think it's there.

 

With that in place, you have to look/sound/act/think like a white male in order to succeed/advance/graduate/whatever and the education level is typically tied to success, money, etc. so it's already playing a role in that regard, but then I think business typically operates under many of the same guises. Hierarchal, patriarchal, the jargon, the attire, etc.

 

We're seeing a lot of it start to change due to the influx of more women, minorities, gays, etc. but there's a looooong history of it all being white male dominated that isn't going to shift overnight. We're also seeing more change as a result of that, so there's a certain duality to it. Basically, there's an obvious movement to get more people who ARENT SWM's into Academia and Business, so things are being arranged to help acclimate them, and then with the increase of them, Academia and Business are starting to more closely resemble an entity that has those groups present within it.

 

Short version of what I'm saying is that Western culture is created with the SWM as the default, and everyone else is sort of operating as an 'other.' Their success essentially depends on their ability to remove that otherness and perform in accordance with the default. Being default by default is an intrinsic leg up as a general rule because it's one less filter you have to force yourself through. It obviously doesn't guarantee success, it just means there's fewer barriers to overcome on the way there.

 

 

Again, all as a general rule, of course.

 

 

The one thing this thought is missing is that the SWM has to become 'the' SWM you're talking about too. There are lots of white kids who aren't born into situations where by absorbing their parents ways, other family members, and friends, it means they'll automatically fit in in the ways you're mentioning.

 

One group setting the mode doesn't mean that something in the nature of others who happen to share the traits that unify the mode setters, will find everything naturally resonates more as they go along with it. That's a cultural/nurturing thing that begins right after you're born.

 

For example, you have had to learn the ways of this society just as much as me. Even though you have the M thing going on.

 

Straight white guys who aren't primed to function successfully in light of the ways of this society may be exceptions to the general rule, even so the nurturing is the determining factor in coming to understand how you should navigate through things.

 

Deferential treatment because of identity is another issue though, but that doesn't seem like one you're talking to.

[naomi 356]

With that in place, you have to look/sound/act/think like a white male in order to succeed/advance/graduate/whatever and the education level is typically tied to success, money, etc. so it's already playing a role in that regard, but then I think business typically operates under many of the same guises. Hierarchal, patriarchal, the jargon, the attire, etc.

 

The little SWM kid has to begin absorbing this stuff too at some point. I'll just work with the clothes angle (as a SWF ), but the sound, act, and think can (to varying extents) be used too. Anyway, he'll learn the business world seems to translate into wearing suits. It's not in his blueprint to know that.

 

You could argue it's easier for a guy to roll with the business world because of personality/functional style differences that are generally constant between the sexes. But I'd argue that if a little girl was nurtured with the expectation that she would be going into business*, or just had how that world works on her radar from critical thinking age onward, she would acclimate the same as the boy. She'll find herself reaching for the blazer, crisp button down and the sleek pencil skirt just like the guy will find himself reaching for the suit. They both need to meet the lines standard his sex was responsible for setting.

 

*I wouldn't argue the above to the absolute. I think sharing some of the mode setters traits does matter as far as natural affinity with the mode itself--especially with sex differences, it's just a factor that's overblown in comparison to the role nurturing has.

 

None of that (again) touches on how deferential treatment because of identity influences outcomes though. That's the kicker.

[Brad GLuckman 519]

I think they're almost invisible to us at this point, and it starts early on. If education serves as the means of advancement in this country, then control of it essentially makes you the gatekeeper. Elementary schools most closely model the white, middle class household as far as the routine, the way people communicate, the rules, etc. The authority/subject model is patriarchal too, even if it's mostly women that incorporate it.

 

Then on the collegiate level, it's more of the same. While it's flooded with liberalism and all that, the very language of Academia is straight, white and male. Entrance standards are based on long-established measurements that have been built around evaluations from upper class white guys from the very start. Papers are graded based on that same language. It's all basically learning how to play the game and sound like those old, rich, white guys want you to sound. How does your writing sound? What are the arguments you use? What are the philosophies you base them upon? Where does your research come from? All SWM dominated.

 

I obviously always had a much easier time with it than a lot of people do because that's the environment I was raised in. It weeds out 'other' dialects and discourse communities, so your options are either exclusion or assimilation. Again, it's almost invisible to us because it's existed for so long and is so entrenched, but I think it's there.

 

With that in place, you have to look/sound/act/think like a white male in order to succeed/advance/graduate/whatever and the education level is typically tied to success, money, etc. so it's already playing a role in that regard, but then I think business typically operates under many of the same guises. Hierarchal, patriarchal, the jargon, the attire, etc.

 

We're seeing a lot of it start to change due to the influx of more women, minorities, gays, etc. but there's a looooong history of it all being white male dominated that isn't going to shift overnight. We're also seeing more change as a result of that, so there's a certain duality to it. Basically, there's an obvious movement to get more people who ARENT SWM's into Academia and Business, so things are being arranged to help acclimate them, and then with the increase of them, Academia and Business are starting to more closely resemble an entity that has those groups present within it.

 

Short version of what I'm saying is that Western culture is created with the SWM as the default, and everyone else is sort of operating as an 'other.' Their success essentially depends on their ability to remove that otherness and perform in accordance with the default. Being default by default is an intrinsic leg up as a general rule because it's one less filter you have to force yourself through. It obviously doesn't guarantee success, it just means there's fewer barriers to overcome on the way there.

 

 

Again, all as a general rule, of course.

 

 

Man, your professors have done a number on you!

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I think they're almost invisible to us at this point, and it starts early on. If education serves as the means of advancement in this country, then control of it essentially makes you the gatekeeper. Elementary schools most closely model the white, middle class household as far as the routine, the way people communicate, the rules, etc. The authority/subject model is patriarchal too, even if it's mostly women that incorporate it.

 

Then on the collegiate level, it's more of the same. While it's flooded with liberalism and all that, the very language of Academia is straight, white and male. Entrance standards are based on long-established measurements that have been built around evaluations from upper class white guys from the very start. Papers are graded based on that same language. It's all basically learning how to play the game and sound like those old, rich, white guys want you to sound. How does your writing sound? What are the arguments you use? What are the philosophies you base them upon? Where does your research come from? All SWM dominated.

 

I obviously always had a much easier time with it than a lot of people do because that's the environment I was raised in. It weeds out 'other' dialects and discourse communities, so your options are either exclusion or assimilation. Again, it's almost invisible to us because it's existed for so long and is so entrenched, but I think it's there.

 

With that in place, you have to look/sound/act/think like a white male in order to succeed/advance/graduate/whatever and the education level is typically tied to success, money, etc. so it's already playing a role in that regard, but then I think business typically operates under many of the same guises. Hierarchal, patriarchal, the jargon, the attire, etc.

 

We're seeing a lot of it start to change due to the influx of more women, minorities, gays, etc. but there's a looooong history of it all being white male dominated that isn't going to shift overnight. We're also seeing more change as a result of that, so there's a certain duality to it. Basically, there's an obvious movement to get more people who ARENT SWM's into Academia and Business, so things are being arranged to help acclimate them, and then with the increase of them, Academia and Business are starting to more closely resemble an entity that has those groups present within it.

 

Short version of what I'm saying is that Western culture is created with the SWM as the default, and everyone else is sort of operating as an 'other.' Their success essentially depends on their ability to remove that otherness and perform in accordance with the default. Being default by default is an intrinsic leg up as a general rule because it's one less filter you have to force yourself through. It obviously doesn't guarantee success, it just means there's fewer barriers to overcome on the way there.

 

 

Again, all as a general rule, of course.

 

What a phag. :shakeshead:

 

 

 

 

 

[Phurfur 70]

Is this the thread where we all bemoan how hard it is to be a white man? Poor us

 

We got us a White Man filled with guilt!

[NewbieJr 541]

We got us a White Man filled with guilt!

So if a white man doesn't think life is hard or things are stacked against him, he's full of guilt? Are you getting Alzheimer's?

[TimmySmith 2,782]

So if a white man doesn't think life is hard or things are stacked against him, he's full of guilt? Are you getting Alzheimer's?

What he is saying is that IGW gave the pat answer, and obviously did not read a word of the thread. Nobody had turned this into "the white man's burden thread" until he (and now you) came along. I understand that it is a provocative debate, and certain PCers just can't handle it.

[NewbieJr 541]

What he is saying is that IGW gave the pat answer, and obviously did not read a word of the thread. Nobody had turned this into "the white man's burden thread" until he (and now you) came along. I understand that it is a provocative debate, and certain PCers just can't handle it.

The entire thread was a discussion about the advantages/disadvantages of being a white male. It's not like Worms was the first to mention it. It wasn't until Phufur came in with his retarded comment about white guilt that it veered off of actual discussion.

[Phurfur 70]

So if a white man doesn't think life is hard or things are stacked against him, he's full of guilt? Are you getting Alzheimer's?

 

Affirmative Action moron! It is the law.

[Phurfur 70]

The entire thread was a discussion about the advantages/disadvantages of being a white male. It's not like Worms was the first to mention it. It wasn't until Phufur came in with his retarded comment about white guilt that it veered off of actual discussion.

 

 

Why else would a white man support Affirmative Action? Why do you support it? Please tell me.

[NewbieJr 541]

Why else would a white man support Affirmative Action? Why do you support it? Please tell me.

Please point me in the direction of the post where I said I supported Affirmative Action. I'll wait.

[KSB2424 3,148]

With that in place, you have to look/sound/act/think like a white male in order to succeed/advance/graduate/whatever and the education level is typically tied to success, money, etc. so it's already playing a role in that regard, but then I think business typically operates under many of the same guises. Hierarchal, patriarchal, the jargon, the attire, etc.

It has nothing to do with skin color. Educated people speak normal english and no slang in their college class or profession. Educated people dress in 'non-hipster' attire in a business environment. Educated people operate in that way, not 'white' people.

 

I'm from North Carolina, if I started my college Economics 101 presentation with "Hey Cuz, if you sell a boat load of them dadgum widgets, you'd make a ton of money." Or talked all ingnorant redneck, I'd be looked at like an idiot.

 

For the first time ever I think, you've really shown your immaturity and lack of worldly experience. I'll give you a mulligan on this one.

[Phurfur 70]

Please point me in the direction of the post where I said I supported Affirmative Action. I'll wait.

 

This is your post.

 

So if a white man doesn't think life is hard or things are stacked against him, he's full of guilt?

 

Affirmative Action stacks things against the White Male; that is a fact. If it isn't guilt why else would a White Man support this?

[NewbieJr 541]

This is your post.

 

 

 

Affirmative Action stacks things against the White Male; that is a fact. If it isn't guilt why else would a White Man support this?

You're backpedaling. You said that I supported affirmative action. And I never did. I simply accused you of being an assdart for implying Worms had 'white guilt' simply because he doesn't pity himself for being a white male. If you want to make ridiculous leaps like that, be ready to explain yourself.

[The Next Generation 10]

Affirmative Action stacks things against the White Male; that is a fact. If it isn't guilt why else would a White Man support this?

 

I thought Affirmative Action was to "level the playing field" so to speak so that minorities couldn't be discriminated against? So..if you are saying it's a FACT that it "stacks things against the white male" aren't you also saying that you agree with the whole SWM premise?

[Phurfur 70]

You're backpedaling. You said that I supported affirmative action. And I never did. I simply accused you of being an assdart for implying Worms had 'white guilt' simply because he doesn't pity himself for being a white male. If you want to make ridiculous leaps like that, be ready to explain yourself.

 

You sure are avoiding giving your opinion on Affirmative Active. I believe it is a racist law, what do you think?

[KSB2424 3,148]

I think most everyone, even minorities and liberals believe Affirmitave Action has run its course. There was a time in our history where it was warranted. Howver that time has since passed. Most everyone I know of all skin colors and political parties pretty much say that.

[Phurfur 70]

I thought Affirmative Action was to "level the playing field" so to speak so that minorities couldn't be discriminated against? So..if you are saying it's a FACT that it "stacks things against the white male" aren't you also saying that you agree with the whole SWM premise?

 

That is the BS they threw at us. So inorder to show discrimination is wrong we made it law that stated we had to discriminate against one group. Brilliant!

 

We are the Great Society!

[Phurfur 70]

I think most everyone, even minorities and liberals believe Affirmitave Action has run its course. There was a time in our history where it was warranted. Howver that time has since passed. Most everyone I know of all skin colors and political parties pretty much say that.

 

 

 

All Affirmative Action did was lower all the standards in this country and it ensured that the best people would not be put in the most important positions. Brilliant!

 

We are the Great Society.

[NewbieJr 541]

You sure are avoiding giving your opinion on Affirmative Active. I believe it is a racist law, what do you think?

I don't like it in theory, but I understand why it's neccessary.

 

 

I'd compare it to minimum wage. In theory, that's unconstitutional. A business owner should be able to pay anyone anything he feels the person deserves. And if the worker doesn't like it, they are free to work elsewhere. But unfortunately, there's a thing called greed out there that makes it neccessary for the government to implement such measures. Millionaires driving Jaguars and spending their weekends on yachts, would love nothing more than to pay unskilled workers #2.00 per hour.

Same with affirmative action. It's also unconstitutional. Unfortunately, in this instance, the word we have to deal with is racism instead of greed. The obvious by-product is the fact that sometimes a better qualified white person is left without the job. The alternative would be that sometimes a better qualified black person would be overlooked. And knowing the mindset of this country, particularly business owners, I think that whites get hurt less than blacks would if we didn't have it.

[The Next Generation 10]

All Affirmative Action did was lower all the standards in this country and it ensured that the best people would not be put in the most important positions. Brilliant!

 

We are the Great Society.

 

So, if AA is a racist policy that " made it law that stated we had to discriminate against one group",white males, and " it ensured that the best people would not be put in the most important positions", then what you're saying is ONLY white males are best qualified to hold "the most important positions" in this country?

[NewbieJr 541]

So, if AA is a racist policy that " made it law that stated we had to discriminate against one group",white males, and " it ensured that the best people would not be put in the most important positions", then what you're saying is ONLY white males are best qualified to hold "the most important positions" in this country?

That's EXACTLY what he's saying. He's from the old school, as many gray-haired conservatives are. They still have that 1800's mindset.

[phillybear 366]

If a man ends up in court for a divorce, he is a second class citizen for the rest of his life.

[KSB2424 3,148]

So, if AA is a racist policy that " made it law that stated we had to discriminate against one group",white males, and " it ensured that the best people would not be put in the most important positions", then what you're saying is ONLY white males are best qualified to hold "the most important positions" in this country?

Back in the day racism against minorities being hired due to skin color was a WRONG. So AA was instituted to correct said WRONG. However AA, by its own nature, is also 'discriminatory' to non-minorites. Which, in theory is also a WRONG.

 

What did mama always teach us? Two wrongs never make a RIGHT.

[drobeski 3,061]

I think they should make it law to discriminate against orange people. After all, they have been scientifically proven to be the lowest form of the human race on the planet and are to dumb too realize they are getting focked anyway.

[Phurfur 70]

So, if AA is a racist policy that " made it law that stated we had to discriminate against one group",white males, and " it ensured that the best people would not be put in the most important positions", then what you're saying is ONLY white males are best qualified to hold "the most important positions" in this country?

 

Not even close you moron!

[The Next Generation 10]

Not even close you moron!

 

[Strike 5,340]

So, if AA is a racist policy that " made it law that stated we had to discriminate against one group",white males, and " it ensured that the best people would not be put in the most important positions", then what you're saying is ONLY white males are best qualified to hold "the most important positions" in this country?

 

That's not what he said at all. Giving preferential treatment to any group is by definition going to result in some less qualified people getting hired. It doesn't mean there aren't any fully qualified people from that group. That's why many blacks are opposed to AA. They are qualified and don't want anyone thinking they got hired due to AA instead of their qualifications.

[Phurfur 70]

That's EXACTLY what he's saying. He's from the old school, as many gray-haired conservatives are. They still have that 1800's mindset.

 

In the old world cops had to score over 92 to become an officer. Now in some communities you have to score a 58 if you are not white and the white guy with a 90 misses out. This is cheating the white cop and society. HTH See Dayton Police force.

 

I cannot believe lefties are arguing for forced discrimination.

[NewbieJr 541]

I think they should make it law to discriminate against orange people. After all, they have been scientifically proven to be the lowest form of the human race on the planet and are to dumb too realize they are getting focked anyway.

I agree. Also short, chubby, no-neck people with low intelligence.

[Phurfur 70]

That's not what he said at all. Giving preferential treatment to any group is by definition going to result in some less qualified people getting hired. It doesn't mean there aren't any fully qualified people from that group. That's why many blacks are opposed to AA. They are qualified and don't want anyone thinking they got hired due to AA instead of their qualifications.

 

[Phurfur 70]

That's EXACTLY what he's saying. He's from the old school, as many gray-haired conservatives are. They still have that 1800's mindset.

 

 

I know we've come a long way

We're changing day to day

But tell me, where do the children play?

- Yusuf Islam aka ,Cat Stevens aka, Steven Demetre Georgiou

[NewbieJr 541]

In the old world cops had to score over 92 to become an officer. Now in some communities you have to score a 58 if you are not white and the white guy with a 90 misses out. This is cheating the white cop and society. HTH See Dayton Police force.

 

I cannot believe lefties are arguing for forced discrimination.

After begging me for ten minutes about my thoughts on AA, you didn't even bother to comment on what I wrote. Or, I guess I should say, pick out a quote/song lyric to reply with.

[Phurfur 70]

After begging me for ten minutes about my thoughts on AA, you didn't even bother to comment on what I wrote. Or, I guess I should say, pick out a quote/song lyric to reply with.

 

 

It was too bigoted for me to comment on it. It is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

[NewbieJr 541]

It was too bigoted for me to comment on it. It is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

So I'm a bigot against white people? :cuckoo: