Musings on the election

[MedStudent 56]

I ended up up voting for Obama, not so much that I thought Romney was that different from Obama, but I was concerned that the republicans would get a hold of the senate and push Romney further to the right.

 

Hispanics (along with women) really won the election for Obama. I think Obama will really push for an amnesty poogram for illegals and it will be interesting to see how the republicans in congress react. The republicans could risk alienating the latinos further and getting dominated in future elections.

 

I tuned into Fox after I saw a skids post about them rethinking Ohio: My mind was just blown away by the thinking of Krautheimer who called Romney a liberal and thinks the only way the republicans can win is to nominate a staunch conservative. ----Is he paying attention to the shifting demographics of the country? Obama won Nevada, a huge mormon state, because of the minority voters. Other republican states are now suddenly in play with the changing of the population.

 

James Carville had it right when he said the republicans are in a quandry with the tea party because they can't live without em and they can't live with them. The tea party blew the republican chances for taking over the senate. He's right. They gift wrapped Indiana which should have been a slam dunk for the republicans.

 

Nate Silver is the only analyst of polls you need to read. He may be a democrat but he analyzes the numbers and sees the truth. To dismiss him as biased is the equivalent of putting your head in the sand.

 

I'll be interested in hearing the fallout from the Romney organization. After McCain lost, there were a lot of grumblings that came out. I think Romney had a better organization than McCain but they did seem to make some missteps at teh end. Many are blaming one of their own ads in Ohio for their downfall there. Apparently (I don't know the full details) he had an ad that said the Jeep factory in Ohio was moving to China if Obama was re-elected and it pissed a lot of people off in Ohio because it was discredited and just thought of as a scare tactic.

[RLLD 4,275]

I felt that Romney made a great sure near the end, and was getting out a much better message toward the end of the campaign. In the end it was not enough, if he could have had a few more weeks who knows how it might have turned out.

 

Bottom line is that there are far more people aligned with the view of Obama and the Democrats, and the voters made the call.

 

I think Romney was not someone people felt they could trust. he had mistakenly given out too much of his true self over time, and could not overcome that in the end.

[MedStudent 56]

Ryan added nothing to the republican ticket. He didn't take anything away from it like Palin did but he didn't help either. Total non factor IMO. I was not impressed with Ryan's campaigning and doubt he will emerge from the 2016 republican primary unless he makes some big improvements. In the end it might have been a learning experience for him but he has a lot more learning to do.

[Bruce Benedict 0]

What happened is that ever since 1992 and the dawn of 24 hour cable coverage, the election has gone to the better media personality. That trend, of course, is now skyrocketing ever more drastically upward since Internet coverage plays such a huge role.

 

Bubba slaughtered Bush and Dole, who didn't have a half of a personality between them.

 

W. stomped Gore and Kerry, who were as stiff and camera-unfriendly as cardboard cutouts.

 

Now Obama has lapped the laughable McCain and the reject from the 1950's Mort Romney.

 

The winner next time around, unless he's such a trainwreck that he intentionally alienates a majority of special interest groups, will be the media darling...the speechmaker...the personality. We live in a country where a percent or two can define a landslide. The popularity contest demographic is the real deciding factor, every election.

[DankNuggs 305]

Very interested how targeted special interests and racial divide can eke out a win... Impressive... CNN was running through all the favors he's going to have to pay back over the next 4 years... Single women, latinos, blacks, etc... Divide and conquer barely won out, and the strategy seems sound as demographic shifts will make this type of play ever more viable...

 

I think this election really spoke most to how the republican party has been crippled by the religious right. Have to let the fat from the gravy rise, so you can skim it off... The libertarian stances coupled with conservative economic policy would have been a winner. Having people talk about rape babies and overturning Roe v Wade as any kind of a legitimate conversation was crushing.

 

Social issues are very secondary to the prime issues this country faces, and to lose what should have been an easy election given the circumstances speaks to what needs to change rather clearly... Upsetting to hear Krauthammer say it was because the republicans needed to be more establishment minded...

 

 

Its a sad day because solving our problems has been pushed back another 4 years when we need to be further along in the recovery to allow increased tax revenues to solve our money problems. Can't fight interest rates forever, and can't keep the market propped up by lending out banks $$$ for free...

[hoytdwow 202]

 

Nate Silver is the only analyst of polls you need to read.

He is so right it's almost scary. He basically predicted exactly what happened last night months ago.

 

Until the GOP can nominate a fiscal conservative and a social liberal/moderate, they aren't going to win. They have got to push the bible thumpers to the rear. Either that, or split into two parties. I think Romney understood this, but in order to get the nomination he had to be all things to all people, a changeling, and people don't like that. It shows a fundamental lack of integrity. Like Voltaire said in another thread, by last night, Romney had lied to everybody once, and maybe twice.

 

Romney's third pivot, at the Denver debate, was the last straw for me, and I assume for a lot of people. He proposed to suddenly be likeable, moderate Mitt, after the spring and summer of severely conservative Mitt.

[hoytdwow 202]

eke out a win...

dude, it wasn't close. HTH

Romney won no swing states and got fewer votes than McCain

[Phurfur 70]

The TV population picked the President the TV told them to vote for.

 

MK-Ultra

 

People voted to have someone else fix their problems rather than do it themselves. They still don't understand that it will not work.

[JT 137]

I felt all along that an Obama win would mark the beginning of the end of the Republican party as we know it. Aligning themselves with the religious right may make for good marketing, but it alienates a growing portion of the population. And as noted before me, their affiliation with the Tea Party has done nothing to encourage me to consider their candidates and policies.

 

Unlike some here, I'm not a voracious consumer of the political scene. Also, unlike many here, I've voted conscience instead of party line all my life. In the case of the current Republican party I can see extremism a mile away, and I immediately run a mile in the other direction.

 

In the end, I thought Romney's campaign was far too focused on "what's wrong with that guy" instead of "this is what we can do to improve the country". And whether his doing or not, the overwhelmingly negative tone was to his detriment. Over-the-top personal attacks by cartoon characters like Trump, Colter, Limbaugh and the like may prove popular on reality shows and talk radio, but I don't believe they sway any truly undecided voters.

[DankNuggs 305]

dude, it wasn't close. HTH

Romney won no swing states and got fewer votes than McCain

OH, FL, VA were very close.

[BLS 314]

With all of the things that Obama has done, and hasn't done; many of which are negative, he still won because the Republicans put up a rich dude who has no understanding what it's like to be a 'normal' joe.

 

I thought it was odd that Obama didn't seem to even be trying in the debates; as if he was giving up and conceding. Now I know it was because he already knew he had it in the bag.

 

The Republicans also lost a good chunk of fervent voters by dissing the Libertarians.

 

 

Social issues aren't what they used to be, and the Republicans need to learn that being fiscally conservative but socially liberal isn't such a bad thing. Everybody who works or saves for retirement knows our debt is a huge problem and it can't continue. Obama's spending policies have been HORRIBLE, and yet he still won over a fiscal conservative.

 

I personally don't expect Obama to cut any spending; most likely it'll be just the opposite. The goal IMO will be redistribution of wealth. I could be wrong.

 

The Republicans would be wise to start looking at a Rand Paul for the next election. Someone who brings some common sense to the table and ditches all the political BS and bipartisanship.

 

I'm not holding my breath. I just ordered another 3k rounds of ammo......and will be able to sell it for double what I paid for it in probably 5 months.

 

investment tip: Buy stocks in ANY gun manufacturer.

 

Here's just a sample: Ruger stock https://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:RGR

 

Did you know that Ruger STOPPED taking orders for 2012 because they couldn't keep up with demand? And they stopped taking those orders in April.

 

It'll be twice as bad this time around.

[DankNuggs 305]

The TV population picked the President the TV told them to vote for.

 

MK-Ultra

 

People voted to have someone else fix their problems rather than do it themselves. They still don't understand that it will not work.

The point is that they don't care... Their ideology resigns themselves to beleiving they will never get ahead, so whether other people pay more taxes, or the country has more debt, they really could care less... Its the dependancy trap... Its the mark of a nation in decline. Roman decadance.

[MedStudent 56]

OH, FL, VA were very close.

 

In the end, he could have lost all those states and still would have won.

[Voltaire 5,388]

We're going to learn something from this fiscal cliff debate that's coming up.

 

Finally the rubber will meet the road for the GOP. We'll see if the GOP is really the party of tax cuts over all or if they're actually concerned about the deficit. I've been operating under the assumption that they don't really give a sh*t about the deficit, that's it's just a hoax and all they really care about is tax cuts. I make that assumption because they showed zero hesitancy to gleefully run up the deficit during the Bush years. Maybe the Tea Party changed them.

 

The fiscal cliff means it's time to choose one or the other. Obama will have a strong hand to play in the negotiations. Of course he did that last time in December 2010 and he sent Geither to negotiate a deal with the GOP that blew up the deficit and you all will remember my head exploding.

 

That's another thing to watch with Obama. He's been talking a good game but he hasn't done a damn thing about the deficit. See if he sends that focktard Geithner packing and replaces him with Jack Lew or Erskine Bowles then we'll know Obama has turned the corner on deficits. If Geithner sticks around, I'll interpret that as Obama dosn't really doesn't give a sh*t about fiscal responsibility. He's still trying to pump up the economy with borrowed money.

[tikigods 76]

I was surprised Warren upset Brown in Massachusetts.

 

Very shocked Hassan beat the fock out of Lamontange in the NH governor race.

 

Romney lost because the Republicans never really got behind him until that first debate. After that first debate people started to believe that Romney was Presidential material. Too little, too late.

 

I've come to the realization that Republicans have no choice but to abandon the fundamental wing and embrace the libertarians. Until they agree to legalize pot and go pro-choice, they have zero chance of winning the White House. Moral highground doesn't work anymore.

[Franknbeans 46]

The GOP throated some donkey hog

[IGotWorms 4,060]

The Republicans are now paying for the Southern Strategy they've employed ever since the Civil Rights Act of 1964. They reliably carried the South and enough other states by using race as a wedge issue. Now that minorities play a much greater role in the electoral process all those years of racially divisive politics are really coming back to haunt the Republicans.

 

It'll be interesting to see what they'll do to change this dynamic, or if they even can change it. I'm sure many in the party would like to see them adopt a soft stance towards immigration, maybe even push stuff like the Dream Act and amnesty. But if they do that then they risk alienating their white southern base. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

We're going to learn something from this fiscal cliff debate that's coming up.

 

Finally the rubber will meet the road for the GOP. We'll see if the GOP is really the party of tax cuts over all or if they're actually concerned about the deficit. I've been operating under the assumption that they don't really give a sh*t about the deficit, that's it's just a hoax and all they really care about is tax cuts. I make that assumption because they showed zero hesitancy to gleefully run up the deficit during the Bush years. Maybe the Tea Party changed them.

 

The fiscal cliff means it's time to choose one or the other. Obama will have a strong hand to play in the negotiations. Of course he did that last time in December 2010 and he sent Geither to negotiate a deal with the GOP that blew up the deficit and you all will remember my head exploding.

 

It'll be interesting to see what congressional Republicans will do. On the one hand, they seemingly HAVE to accept revenue increases at this point - the hardline "not one red cent" stance has become a clear liability for them.

 

But on the other hand, they have all sworn an oath to His Majesty Grover Norquist that they will never ever raise taxes under any circumstances. Breaking that promise has historically meant doom for anyone on the right.

 

So what's going to give? I bet they'll try to figure out some way of raising taxes while trying to call it something else. Time will tell.

[Little Rusty 18]

America finds Gay Marriage, Killing Babies & Free stuff more important than Freedom, Liberty & Strength.

 

Fockin' Idiots!!!

[Chronic Husker 85]

America finds Gay Marriage, Killing Babies & Free stuff more important than Freedom, Liberty & Strength.

 

Fockin' Idiots!!!

 

It took about 30 hours from the announcement Obama is your president, but welcome back. Your sour grapes post has been duly noted.

[Voltaire 5,388]

The TV population picked the President the TV told them to vote for.

 

MK-Ultra

 

People voted to have someone else fix their problems rather than do it themselves. They still don't understand that it will not work.

 

It told them the choices were between the pinko-Communist Islamic frontman Barack Obama and the job-exporting, tax evading, corporate raider Mitt Romney. It told them this 8000 times each day.

 

It never mentioned Gary Johnson.

[shotsup 833]

Who Won ??

 

 

 

I didnt want a repeat and the same ole ole for the next 4 years but I also did(do) not trust MR - seems very shady. OH Well - thats why I do not vote nor complain.

 

This is as political as I get... Enjoy it

[NewbieJr 541]

Romney didnt win one single swing state and lost his birth state and home state. And also Ryan's home state.

 

It was an ass kicking of epic proportions.

[MedStudent 56]

 

So what's going to give? I bet they'll try to figure out some way of raising taxes while trying to call it something else. Time will tell.

 

I saw lyndsey Graham on tv and he was adamant that they would not raise taxes. He said they would get rid of deductions but not raise taxes. whatever you want to call it. Getting rid of deductions will result in paying more taxes. So, if they don't want to call it a tax increase to appease the t party that's fine but we all know it is. I think the democrats will want to make sure that any deduction eliminations end up falling on the wealthy and will make an effort to keep taxes the same for the middle and lower incomes. What I think will happen is deductions for everything except charities and home interest will be eliminated and tax rates for the middle and lower incomes will be lowered to try to balance off the tax hit for them.

[hoytdwow 202]

Romney didnt win one single swing state and lost his birth state and home state. And also Ryan's home state.

 

It was an ass kicking of epic proportions.

don't forget NH, the state where his vacation home is

[MDC 7,652]

Musings on the election:

 

Just based on demographics the GOP is going to have to shift focus. About the only demographic they won was white men, and even that wasn't by a huge margin. Meanwhile they lost women - who make up more of the electorate than men - every minority group and young voters. The trends aren't looking very good.

 

Social issues really hurt the GOP in this eleciton. They don't need to go pro choice but adopting seriously hardline outside the mainstream views on abortion is not going to win over female voters. The party should also consider working out a fair compromise on immigration reform. We're not going to build a 500-mile wall or deport 11 million people so the extremist views are hurting.

 

I think the tea party has really outlived its usefulness. Mostly they're just the loudest and dumbest fringe of the party and they've arguably lost more congressional seats than they've won these past few years. Most of the tea party's favored candidates are social (rather than fiscal) conservatives, so the general public is not falling for it.

 

Overall I think the GOP should really focus on tone too.

 

At the heart of true conservatism is IMO a belief that there are limits to what the government can or should do. I think this is a belief that many people across the political spectrum can get behind. But the party on the whole has taken this to such an extreme and couched it in such disdain for the poor, minorities, etc. it's really backfired on them.

 

It's one thing to say it's beyond the government's scope to eradicate poverty. It's another thing to portray all of your political opponents as failures, whiners and victims. That's a fine line that today's GOP has trampled all over. Reagan knew better and I expect the next generation of Republicans are going to know better too.

 

There you go.

[Voltaire 5,388]

LOL @ Karl Rove and all his Conservitard American Crossroads Super PAC contributors that tried to buy America's electorate.

 

Cleaerly your Brewster's Millions problem was not enough money. Need to give more generously next time.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

America finds Gay Marriage, Killing Babies & Free stuff more important than Freedom, Liberty & Strength.

 

Fockin' Idiots!!!

 

Don't forget legal weed. Next up is to get taxpayer funded legal weed.

[Phurfur 70]

America does exactly what the media wanted.

 

MK-Ultra

[Bruce Benedict 0]

America does exactly what the media wanted.

 

MK-Ultra

I'm going to need another Fox News link to back this claim up.

[Phurfur 70]

LOL @ Karl Rove and all his Conservitard American Crossroads Super PAC contributors that tried to buy America's electorate.

 

Cleaerly your Brewster's Millions problem was not enough money. Need to give more generously next time.

 

Yup, the MSM succeeded and won.

 

MK-Ultra

[donhaas 18]

I think the tea party has really outlived its usefulness. Mostly they're just the loudest and dumbest fringe of the party and they've arguably lost more congressional seats than they've won these past few years. Most of the tea party's favored candidates are social (rather than fiscal) conservatives, so the general public is not falling for it.

 

 

Tea Party Vows to Hijack GOP in Time for Next Election

 

 

Conservative leaders on Wednesday lashed out at Mitt Romney for failing to secure the presidency, calling him a “weak moderate” and vowing to wage a war to put the Tea Party in charge of the Republican Party by the time it nominates its next presidential candidate.

 

“The battle to take over the Republican Party begins today and the failed Republican leadership should resign,” said Richard Viguerie, a top activist and chairman of ConservativeHQ.com, adding that the GOP must “never again” nominate a “big government established conservative for president.”

 

“Conservatives and Tea Partiers are just sick and tired of Republican leaders compromising on the state and national level with Democrats that grow the size of government,” Viguerie said. “We are going to hold their feet to the fire.”

 

“Tea Partiers will take over the Republican party in the next four years,” Viguerie vowed.

 

Jenny Beth Martin of Tea Party Patriots, one of the most prominent organizations within the fiscally conservative tea party movement, described Romney as a “weak, moderate candidate hand-picked by the country club elite Republican establishment,” who failed to make the kind of strong case for conservatism that would have won the election.

 

“This is not the death of the Tea Party,” asserted Martin.

 

"For those of us who believe that America, as founded, is the greatest country in the history of the world – a 'Shining city upon a hill' – we wanted someone who would fight for us," Tea Party Patriots co-founder Jenny Beth Martin wrote in an e-mail, quoting 40th president and conservative hero Ronald Reagan. "We wanted a fighter like Ronald Reagan who boldly championed America's founding principles... What we got was a weak moderate candidate, hand-picked by the Beltway elites and country-club establishment."

 

Romney made concerted efforts during the campaign to reach out to the far-right Tea Party, most noticeably in choosing Paul Ryan as his running mate. His efforts, however, proved to fall short of securing the presidency and satisfying members of the extreme right.

 

The Tea Party Patriots said it had to work harder going forward to stop the "mushy-middle" members of the GOP from "getting rolled" by the left.

 

The group also told followers that they were "not going away," despite losses Tuesday night by tea party congressmen Allen West in Florida and Joe Walsh in Illinois, as well as a near-loss by Rep. Michele Bachmann in Minnesota, according to U.S. News and World Report.

[Frank M 181]

 

Tea Party Vows to Hijack GOP in Time for Next Election

 

 

Conservative leaders on Wednesday lashed out at Mitt Romney for failing to secure the presidency, calling him a "weak moderate" and vowing to wage a war to put the Tea Party in charge of the Republican Party by the time it nominates its next presidential candidate.

 

 

And in the process, get their asses handed to them again.

[Bruce Benedict 0]

"THE ONLY WAY TO GOVERN A NATION, LIVE YOUR LIFE, OR WIPE YOUR ASS IS SPECIFICALLY AS INSTRUCTED BY MEN WHO WORE POWDERED WIGS AND THOUGHT TOILETS WERE SCIENCE FICTION -- AND FIE ON ANY LIBERAL WHO DENIES THE INFALLIBILITY OF A 225 YEAR OLD DOCUMENT THAT WAS HASTILY HAMMERED OUT IN COMMITTEE BY PISSY BRITISH EXPATS!"

[donhaas 18]

And in the process, get their asses handed to them again.

 

 

For the life of me, I can't understand why these tea party idiots are invoking and praising Ronald Reagan in their press release (and every other chance they get)....

 

You mean the guy that taxed our precious "job creators" at a variable rate much higher than Obummer?

You mean the guy that raised taxes 11 times?

You mean the guy that is the inventer, King, and Godfather of massive deficit spending and fiscal carelessness?

You mean the guy that frequently (and on tape) cried that our busdrivers were paying far more taxes than our millionaires and billionaires? [Today we call that "socialism and/or 'punishing success'"

You mean the guy that invented the program that is now used to get ObamaPhones ?

 

 

 

etc., etc. etc....

[Phurfur 70]

"THE ONLY WAY TO GOVERN A NATION, LIVE YOUR LIFE, OR WIPE YOUR ASS IS SPECIFICALLY AS INSTRUCTED BY MEN WHO WORE POWDERED WIGS AND THOUGHT TOILETS WERE SCIENCE FICTION -- AND FIE ON ANY LIBERAL WHO DENIES THE INFALLIBILITY OF A 225 YEAR OLD DOCUMENT THAT WAS HASTILY HAMMERED OUT IN COMMITTEE BY PISSY BRITISH EXPATS!"

You aren't very good at this.

 

That document created the most economically powerful and successful country in the history of the Planet Earth. It took less 150 years to blow away other countries that have been around for thousands of years. As we are turning away from that document we are becoming a poorer and a less Influential nation but that is the goal. .

 

The New World Order.

[Phurfur 70]

For the life of me, I can't understand why these tea party idiots are invoking and praising Ronald Reagan in their press release (and every other chance they get)....

 

You mean the guy that taxed our precious "job creators" at a variable rate much higher than Obummer?

You mean the guy that raised taxes 11 times?

You mean the guy that is the inventer, King, and Godfather of massive deficit spending and fiscal carelessness?

You mean the guy that frequently (and on tape) cried that our busdrivers were paying far more taxes than our millionaires and billionaires? [Today we call that "socialism and/or 'punishing success'"

You mean the guy that invented the program that is now used to get ObamaPhones ?

 

 

 

etc., etc. etc....

 

Talk about spin. To show you how clueless you are:

 

Soon after taking office in 1981, Reagan signed into law one of the largest tax cuts in the postwar period.

 

That legislation -- phased in over three years -- pushed through a 23% across-the-board cut of individual income tax rates. It also called for tax brackets, the standard deduction and personal exemptions to be adjusted for inflation starting in 1984. That would reduce "bracket creep" since the high inflation of the 1970s and early 1980s meant incomes rose very fast, pushing taxpayers into ever higher brackets even though the real value of their income hadn't changed.

 

The 1981 bill also made certain business deductions more generous.

 

In 1986, Reagan lowered individual income tax rates again, this time in landmark tax reform legislation.

 

As a result of the 1981 and 1986 bills, the top income tax rate was slashed from 70% to 28%

 

Here is my link, please provide yours.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/08/news/economy/reagan_years_taxes/index.htm

 

[IGotWorms 4,060]

Maybe it's just me, but I think Michelob Ultra tastes like piss flavored water.

[MDC 7,652]

 

Tea Party Vows to Hijack GOP in Time for Next Election

 

 

Conservative leaders on Wednesday lashed out at Mitt Romney for failing to secure the presidency, calling him a “weak moderate” and vowing to wage a war to put the Tea Party in charge of the Republican Party by the time it nominates its next presidential candidate.

 

So the fact that Romney was too moderate is what sunk him? Aaaaalrighy then.

 

These people are really living under the delusion that a majority of Americans are interested in their wingnut extremist policies.

[donhaas 18]

Talk about spin. To show you how clueless you are:

 

 

 

Here is my link, please provide yours.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/08/news/economy/reagan_years_taxes/index.htm

 

 

"Much higher" was a bit of hyperbole.... We'll just settle on higher [Conservative non-teabagged icons MaoEisenhower and MaoNixon were much, much higher than Obummer]

 

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/185847/fact-tax-rates-are-at-a-30-year-low-under-obama/

 

 

 

Can you combat the other points?

 

Did RR raise taxes 11 times?

Is he NOT the Godfather, inventer, king of massive deficit spending?

 

 

If so, why is he an almighty icon of the tea party?

 

 

I'll take your answers off the air