***The Official Seattle Seahawks 2013 Offseason Thread***

[phillybear 366]

Good views,

If this does happen, then this is when we should move on from DT and hit LB or something of value.

Then try like heck to land B. Williams in the 3rd. I like this kid. I could even see us reaching for him in the 2nd as they will have good tape on him. He did very well in the Sr. practice and game though. He looks powerful, and if I remember right had some good production even if it was a small school. I saw some bits and pieces of him and I liked what I saw.

 

I think Jenkins is still a good fit in the 2nd too.

 

And I also think some of those guy's you mentioned will drop a little bit further then what you expect.

I think S. Williams is going in the 2nd round somewhere, which then could push Short, etc. down to us. Although I'm not that big of a fan on J. Williams.

Maybe I'm wrong where they go?

 

Greene and S. Moore would be my fall back plan and go LB instead. There could also be some good CB's too.

 

DT go early and often, but maybe one or two will drift. We will see. But I think the teams out there that want a DT will see the same early tier and drop off and know that if they want one, they have to grab one very early in the draft.

 

The second round seems to have more depth at corner and WR than any other positions, which sucks because those are two areas I'd rather not address in the 2nd round. I think there is so much capital invested in the secondary right now with some young guys currently on the roster that could contribute that might not even make the team, I'd prefer DT, OLB, and especially Offensive Guard, but these will be scarce in this round I believe. So, I would advocate a trade down if possible. If no opportunity presents itself, best player available with common sense. So no punters, QBs. If it's WR or corner or safety, eh, what can you do?

[FlaHawker 24]

 

Patton is probably another example (Like Michael, like M. Scott) that are being overvalued and linked to our 2nd round pick, when in fact he could be a target in the 3rd or even 4th if he drops.

I don't think his value is 2nd round, and rather 3rd.

 

This is where you guys lose me. You talk about value but unless you know all 32 teams draft boards you have no idea about value. If one team takes Patton in the 2nd round that was his value. You may not like it but that was his value. Plus you guys do know that JS & PC set up their draft based on the current roster and not in relation to the rest of the league right? Therefore, values will not translate.

[phillybear 366]

This is where you guys lose me. You talk about value but unless you know all 32 teams draft boards you have no idea about value. If one team takes Patton in the 2nd round that was his value. You may not like it but that was his value. Plus you guys do know that JS & PC set up their draft based on the current roster and not in relation to the rest of the league right? Therefore, values will not translate.

 

There is no easy answer. Sure, some teams fall in love with players and move heaven and earth to make sure they get them in a draft. And then there are teams that allow those players to fall into their laps while they acquire other key pieces with earlier picks and not overreach for a player.

 

To simplify my philosophy, putting into fantasy football terms for the many years when I competed in leagues. I would create projections for players, tier them off in value amongst the position, compile average draft positions, trending/buzz of players moving up and down, etc. As drafts progressed, and I didn't have a no doubt about which guy I was taking, I'd study the tiers, study what my opponents needs were, maybe letting WR slide because I had 4 left in my top tier so I could take the final RB in a tier, and then take the WR on the way back. That's a rather simplistic explanation, but I like to gamble a bit to maximize value, rather than grabbing a DT in 2nd round when a guy that I projected with nearly the same numbers will probably be there in the 4th. Probably. That's the key. You can't expect a Jax to take a punter in the 3rd round. Wild card picks happen, and that's the risk you take.

 

John Schneider loved Russell Wilson last year, clearly. He wanted to take him in the 2nd round. Pete Carroll talked him out of it. Pete wanted to get more value. So they let him slide another round, and still got their guy, along with Bobby Wagner. They knew Wilson was a consensus 4th round pick at best. Yeah, there is no blanket answer I can give you. Sometimes you have to take a chance, sometimes you can figure out what other teams are thinking about a player, where he is probably going to get selected, sometimes you lose out on a guy you like. It's all poker, at it's heart. Sometimes teams have medical information that us draft geeks don't. Sometimes teams don't study players that we've seen play 30 times. Outlier picks happen too. But many teams have the same players in similar tiers, so the value is more universal than you think. You are just playing percentages. That was a lot of words and I hope it made a smidgen of some sense.

 

It's all meant to be an enjoyable experience, in the end.

[phillybear 366]

This is where you guys lose me. You talk about value but unless you know all 32 teams draft boards you have no idea about value. If one team takes Patton in the 2nd round that was his value. You may not like it but that was his value. Plus you guys do know that JS & PC set up their draft based on the current roster and not in relation to the rest of the league right? Therefore, values will not translate.

 

(Let me try that again...)

 

It's an educated guess as to their value.

[Hawkfin 32]

This is where you guys lose me. You talk about value but unless you know all 32 teams draft boards you have no idea about value. If one team takes Patton in the 2nd round that was his value. You may not like it but that was his value. Plus you guys do know that JS & PC set up their draft based on the current roster and not in relation to the rest of the league right? Therefore, values will not translate.

Value VS his peers at WR.... It doesn't matter what other teams do OR where he's picked.

In my eyes, he's not better then a 3rd round prospect value wise. Basically a G. Tate worth of WR.

 

Also Value VS need.... WR does not seem to be that big of a need now with Harvin. Where a LB for example could come right in and start for us and replace Hill.

 

Patton IMO is not the cream of the crop at WR. He's 6'0 and a very good wr. WR core is also deep. We could draft a "Similar" WR deeper down in the draft. Maybe somebody with better size.

 

I like Patton. He would be on my list in the 2nd. But, far down it and he would make me more happy with my 3rd rounder.

[Groundhog 24]

This is where you guys lose me. You talk about value but unless you know all 32 teams draft boards you have no idea about value. If one team takes Patton in the 2nd round that was his value. You may not like it but that was his value. Plus you guys do know that JS & PC set up their draft based on the current roster and not in relation to the rest of the league right? Therefore, values will not translate.

 

Every team on draft day closely tracks other teams' perceived needs, who they have already taken and which holes remain to be plugged, which gives each team some rough probabilities that their targeted guys might last until their next pick. It's not an exact science of course, and then different teams will have different individual needs based on scheme, character filters, what have you. But if your goal is to obtain as many of your targeted players as you can (targeted before the draft), then you need to play this game. Doing an after-the-fact assessment of value is too late to meet this objective.

 

PC and JS liked Russell Wilson more than most teams. JS almost takes him in the 2nd, but PC convinces him that he'll still be there in the 3rd. PC proves to be correct, we get Wagner in the 2nd, and RW in the 3rd. So it's not that they are simply tuning out all the other teams altogether.

[Hawkfin 32]

There is no easy answer. Sure, some teams fall in love with players and move heaven and earth to make sure they get them in a draft. And then there are teams that allow those players to fall into their laps while they acquire other key pieces with earlier picks and not overreach for a player.

 

To simplify my philosophy, putting into fantasy football terms for the many years when I competed in leagues. I would create projections for players, tier them off in value amongst the position, compile average draft positions, trending/buzz of players moving up and down, etc. As drafts progressed, and I didn't have a no doubt about which guy I was taking, I'd study the tiers, study what my opponents needs were, maybe letting WR slide because I had 4 left in my top tier so I could take the final RB in a tier, and then take the WR on the way back. That's a rather simplistic explanation, but I like to gamble a bit to maximize value, rather than grabbing a DT in 2nd round when a guy that I projected with nearly the same numbers will probably be there in the 4th. Probably. That's the key. You can't expect a Jax to take a punter in the 3rd round. Wild card picks happen, and that's the risk you take.

 

John Schneider loved Russell Wilson last year, clearly. He wanted to take him in the 2nd round. Pete Carroll talked him out of it. Pete wanted to get more value. So they let him slide another round, and still got their guy, along with Bobby Wagner. They knew Wilson was a consensus 4th round pick at best. Yeah, there is no blanket answer I can give you. Sometimes you have to take a chance, sometimes you can figure out what other teams are thinking about a player, where he is probably going to get selected, sometimes you lose out on a guy you like. It's all poker, at it's heart. Sometimes teams have medical information that us draft geeks don't. Sometimes teams don't study players that we've seen play 30 times. Outlier picks happen too. But many teams have the same players in similar tiers, so the value is more universal than you think. You are just playing percentages. That was a lot of words and I hope it made a smidgen of some sense.

 

It's all meant to be an enjoyable experience, in the end.

YEP - I agree completley.

 

That said, there's always merit to take a guy you really love. Had we lost out on Wilson, we would not have our franchise QB right now probably. But, at the same time you don't need to reach either.

 

Patton is not a reach. I don't think I ever said that. Philybear agreed that he's around a 2nd round value.

But, if there are other guys (And there are to me) that we can get later, then we could fill a more important position first then come back to the depth at WR that there is.

 

I don't think Patton is a "must have" guy IMO.

S. Baily might be just as good or better and is close in height. Swope is one of my fav's that blew the doors off speed wise and catches everything. Hunter might fall because of his thin frame and injury stuff. Dopson is not talked about much, but solid. Harrison is well over 6'2 and stretches the field.

There is talk even Patterson falls out of the first round now.

 

Taking Patton in the 2nd just doesn't feel like "value". I think he's being targeted as a later prospect personally.

[Groundhog 24]

Let me thrown out a quick thought, and maybe I'll be able to get more in depth on some of this other stuff with you folks when time permits. Anyway, it's probably going to be a bad idea to draft a DT in the 2nd round if we stand pat at #56.

 

It is expected that DTs that will be taken in the first round: S Floyd, S Lotulelei, S Richardson, S Williams, J Hankins.

It is exmpected that J Williams and K Short will be taken end of the 1st round or very early in the 2nd.

 

Then, you have a major cliff fall off in prospects and value. If one of those early guys drifts down to the Seahawks, great. But realistically, I don't see any other DT going before the 3rd round. Early third round John Jenkins is probably more suited to play nose tackle in a 3-4 scheme. Mid third round Brandon Williams is from Missouri Southern State, so it's hard to say what his competition level was at and the amount of film available to study. Then, I have nothing until the mid 4th round, around where we would pick.

 

So, unless you move up and grab one of those top 7 DT prospects, you will be reaching. I think it might be more prudent to grab best available. DT won't fit best available. This is probably why we signed Tony Daniels at DT. As insurance in case the DT doesn't break right for us in the draft.

 

I agree with you that it's a bit of a reach, but I wouldn't say it is a huge reach. I don't think he would be there at #87, and I don't think my preferred 3rd rounder, Quessenberry, would be there in the 4th. I also agree that the best value at that point in the draft is probably WR and then DB, but I too don't want to spend picks there on those areas, I'd rather stick with the lines. I'm also not convinced that Jenkins has to be in a 3-4 to be productive. Better-suited? Maybe.

 

So I too would rather trade down from #56 into early 3rd and maybe pick up a pick next year, but once you start projecting trades, you can go around the bend.

[Hawkfin 32]

I agree with you that it's a bit of a reach, but I wouldn't say it is a huge reach. I don't think he would be there at #87, and I don't think my preferred 3rd rounder, Quessenberry, would be there in the 4th. I also agree that the best value at that point in the draft is probably WR and then DB, but I too don't want to spend picks there on those areas, I'd rather stick with the lines. I'm also not convinced that Jenkins has to be in a 3-4 to be productive. Better-suited? Maybe.

 

So I too would rather trade down from #56 into early 3rd and maybe pick up a pick next year, but once you start projecting trades, you can go around the bend.

I agree with this and disagree... I think DT might have value right there at #56. I'm not convinced all those DT's fly off the board. Those that take them early, won't be taking them in the 2nd round also. I think a flew slip through the cracks, and all we need is 1 of them.

 

I agree CB's might have value, but I could see them also fly off the board in the first and early 2nd rounds.

 

WR probably holds value, but that is because they are SO deep. There will be value in the 4th too.

 

I disagree we should trade down! (UNLESS it's a small 5 spot move) We need quality player over quantity of more draft picks. We aleady have a ton of later picks. Everytime you trade down, your losing some value of quality of players.

 

Now IF you trade for future picks that are of a higher round. That's always worth it. NE is a master at that. But, that usually means losing the pick all together also. But, if not, I'm always up for this move.

 

I agree about the Jenkins comment. I like him.

 

I think there will be some real good players for us at DT or LB.

[Kopy 572]

You guys think we do anything thursday? Or are we taking the night off.

[Hawkfin 32]

You guys think we do anything thursday? Or are we taking the night off.

I don't think so.... I would be a little shocked if we did, and I'd hate to see us give away so much to move up into the first. Unless we landed Richardson/DT some how. But still, it would cost us way to much. I don't think it's really possible even.

 

Should see Harvin flashed for us and talked about a bit though.

 

Day off as far as picks I'd say.

[phillybear 366]

2013 just released. Some notes.

 

Open season at Carolina.

Week 12, bye.

Week 14, at San Fran.

Finish season hosting Arizona and St Louis

 

TV

Week 2, Sunday Night hosting San Fran. There will be blood.

Week 7, Thursday Night at Arizona.

Week 8, Monday Night at St Louis.

Week 13, Monday Night, hosting New Orleans.

 

All non division road games are 1:00 PM EST starts. 5 games. The league butt focked us, really hard.

[Groundhog 24]

2013 just released. Some notes.

 

Open season at Carolina.

Week 12, bye.

Week 14, at San Fran.

Finish season hosting Arizona and St Louis

 

TV

Week 2, Sunday Night hosting San Fran. There will be blood.

Week 7, Thursday Night at Arizona.

Week 8, Monday Night at St Louis.

Week 13, Monday Night, hosting New Orleans.

 

All non division road games are 1:00 PM EST starts. 5 games. The league butt focked us, really hard.

 

things that bug me about this schedule:

- the 1pm road games

- the week 15 game @ NYG is East Coast at 1pm, after a road game @SF, and likely in cold weather.

- tough games @ HOU and @ ATL.

 

things I like about this schedule:

- no three-game road trips

- only three games in the Eastern Time Zone - could be worse.

- bye week late in the season - good (just my opinion, I would rather have it after injuries pile up, not before)

- last 2 games of season at home.

 

The weird thing is, even though 5 of the first 8 games are on the road, I can still make a case for entering the halfway mark with a 7-1 record. Lose @ HOU, beat everyone else. We will beat SF at home and none of the other road games scare me. Someone please bring me another glass of the Koolaid.

[Groundhog 24]

You guys think we do anything thursday? Or are we taking the night off.

 

JS will take the night off. PC will be working on really obscure hints about his plans for #56 overall and drive everyone crazy.

[phillybear 366]

You guys think we do anything thursday? Or are we taking the night off.

 

Thursday will be uneventful for this team.

 

But you can create your own entertainment. For every Defensive Tackle that gets selected, you have to drink a beer and a shot and then yell "FOCK!!".

[Joey Gladstone 33]

Holy sh!t!! No game in Chicago? I was starting to enjoy that trip.

[FlaHawker 24]

Holy sh!t!! No game in Chicago? I was starting to enjoy that trip.

Yea that yearly assraping has kept a certain derelict off the boards.

[phillybear 366]

Hauschka resigned as the kicker. Eh, whatever.

 

And in case you missed it, Dexter Davis cut. He was a draft pick of Pete and John's that never panned out.

 

Cameron Morrah signed with the Niners. He showed some flashes, especially memorable catch and rumble in the BeastQuake game, but just too hurt and too much dropping of the ball. He's a natural for the Niners.

[FlaHawker 24]

Hauschka resigned as the kicker. Eh, whatever.

 

And in case you missed it, Dexter Davis cut. He was a draft pick of Pete and John's that never panned out.

 

Cameron Morrah signed with the Niners. He showed some flashes, especially memorable catch and rumble in the BeastQuake game, but just too hurt and too much dropping of the ball. He's a natural for the Niners.

Ok, so who are your projecting to the Hawks at 56?

[phillybear 366]

Ok, so who are your projecting to the Hawks at 56?

 

Best guess:

 

TE, Zach Ertz, Stanford

Dt, Brandon Williams, Mizz Southern St

[FlaHawker 24]

Best guess:

 

TE, Zach Ertz, Stanford

Dt, Brandon Williams, Mizz Southern St

Here are some names I have seen mocked to Seattle at #56:

 

Quinton Patton, Sam Montgomery, Keenan Allen,WILLIAM GHOLSTON

[phillybear 366]

Here are some names I have seen mocked to Seattle at #56:

 

Quinton Patton, Sam Montgomery, Keenan Allen,WILLIAM GHOLSTON

 

As far as Patton and Allen, the reason to draft a WR this year is to groom a replacement for G Tate or S Rice in the event they are let go/walk away from the team next season. While Patton is likely to be available at #56, Allen, despite the off field issues during drug testing, probably won't slide all the way down to Seattle's 2nd round pick. If he does, is that too much of a red flag that everybody else is passing on one of the top WR prospects in the draft? He's go early to mid 2nd most likely. As for Patton, there is a lot to like about him. If he is selected, I will give a thumbs up.

 

Sam Montgomery is a guy that is very likely to be drafted around pick #56. He's like the opposite of Irvin. He has technique, very strong vs the run and holds his ground. Has room to grow in learning additional pass rushing skills. I suppose he would be a best player available pick, as he doesn't figure to get a heck of a lot of playing time this season.

 

William Gholston is a guy that I am having a hard time justifying putting in the top 100 picks, and apparently others do to. If this was our pick in the 4th round, I'd be disappointed as I have him going lower than that. Has some raw ability, but very unpolished and needs work as a project player. His progress slowed during his senior year, where he was somewhat inconsistent. He is probably best suited for a 3-4 defense, so scheme wise may not be a fit. The best thing about him is that he is 6'7", and you can't teach height. If this team is going to reach for this guy, use a 3rd or 4th. Definitely not a 2nd.

[FlaHawker 24]

 

Sam Montgomery is a guy that is very likely to be drafted around pick #56. He's like the opposite of Irvin. He has technique, very strong vs the run and holds his ground. Has room to grow in learning additional pass rushing skills. I suppose he would be a best player available pick, as he doesn't figure to get a heck of a lot of playing time this season.

 

The more research I do, the more I don't like this player. http://bustedcoverage.com/2012/12/29/did-lsu-strength-coach-tommy-moffitt-just-ruin-sam-montgomerys-draft-status/

 

[Hawkfin 32]

The more research I do, the more I don't like this player. http://bustedcoverage.com/2012/12/29/did-lsu-strength-coach-tommy-moffitt-just-ruin-sam-montgomerys-draft-status/

 

I don't like any of those picks mentioned. Although, Patton I do like even though I don't think we should go WR there. I don't see us taking a WR anyway.

 

I want no part of Montgomery, Gholston or Allen for lots of reasons.

[phillybear 366]

I don't like any of those picks mentioned. Although, Patton I do like even though I don't think we should go WR there. I don't see us taking a WR anyway.

 

I want no part of Montgomery, Gholston or Allen for lots of reasons.

 

I color coded players that were confirmed to have visited with Seattle coaches prior to the draft on my board. Sure, half of them I didn't have listed in my top 350. Some were there...

 

Tyrann Matthieu, CB, 3rd rounder

 

Matt Scott, QB, 5th rounder

Duke Williams, SS, 5th rounder

Zac Dysert, QB, 5th rounder

 

Mike Catapano, DE, 6th rounder

 

Michael Williams, TE, 7th rounder

Quinn Sharp, P, 7th rounder

 

Well, I'm not seeing much as far as OG/OT, which worries me. Sure, there were WR and CB and assorted deep sleeper prospects, but it troubles me that we may not be looking strongly at adding players to the offensive line competition, which I think is the team's biggest weakness right now. You have Okung, Unger, and an hell of a lot of question marks cobbled together to face the relentless defenses of SF, StL, and Arizona. Um, maybe we are all getting enamored with the skill positions, and need to focus on helping the offensive line. Not that rookies do all that well thrown into the fire offensive line fire their first year; very few exceptions. Oh, yeah, I think that Pete Carroll in a recent interview alluded to the fact that James Carpenter is having trouble moving around. That surgery and/or talent worked out.

[phillybear 366]

Kam Chancellor just inked an extension. I had assumed talks got rocky on a new deal, and he might walk at the end of the season. Now, it seems, safety is deprioritized somewhat on draft day.

[FlaHawker 24]

I color coded players that were confirmed to have visited with Seattle coaches prior to the draft on my board. Sure, half of them I didn't have listed in my top 350. Some were there...

 

Tyrann Matthieu, CB, 3rd rounder

 

Matt Scott, QB, 5th rounder

Duke Williams, SS, 5th rounder

Zac Dysert, QB, 5th rounder

 

Mike Catapano, DE, 6th rounder

 

Michael Williams, TE, 7th rounder

Quinn Sharp, P, 7th rounder

 

Well, I'm not seeing much as far as OG/OT, which worries me. Sure, there were WR and CB and assorted deep sleeper prospects, but it troubles me that we may not be looking strongly at adding players to the offensive line competition, which I think is the team's biggest weakness right now. You have Okung, Unger, and an hell of a lot of question marks cobbled together to face the relentless defenses of SF, StL, and Arizona. Um, maybe we are all getting enamored with the skill positions, and need to focus on helping the offensive line. Not that rookies do all that well thrown into the fire offensive line fire their first year; very few exceptions. Oh, yeah, I think that Pete Carroll in a recent interview alluded to the fact that James Carpenter is having trouble moving around. That surgery and/or talent worked out.

I disagree about the OL. I'm not ready to write off Carpenter yet and I think Breno Giacomini gets a bad wrap. That being said, you can never draft too many linemen.

[FlaHawker 24]

Kam Chancellor just inked an extension. I had assumed talks got rocky on a new deal, and he might walk at the end of the season. Now, it seems, safety is deprioritized somewhat on draft day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-unD33mV8Os

[Hawkfin 32]

I disagree about the OL. I'm not ready to write off Carpenter yet and I think Breno Giacomini gets a bad wrap. That being said, you can never draft too many linemen.

I agree! I really like our Oline right now. I thought Carpenter would make a better guard then LT, or maybe a RT. But, I think once he gets settled in he'll be fine. I like Moffit. Breno is not bad at all other then a few untimely penalties. But, he battles hard. We have some other talent around too. The Dline converted Oline was really stepping up too.

 

I would like to add one late in the draft, but NOT ANOTHER early one.

 

LOVE that we resigned Chanchellor! This is big.

[Fantasy Noob 10]

I am pretty sure they love Sweezy at guard. I can't find any links now but Cable and Carrol have come out in his support in several articles.

 

Which gives us a rotation of Moffit, Carpenter, Sweezy at guard and set at center and left tackle and only right tackle as spot of obivous need to upgrade. I hate to say it but I still think Schnieder envisions Carpenter taking over at right tackle, which scares me. He's meh as a guard but he was hideous as a right tackle in his rookie season.

[phillybear 366]

I am pretty sure they love Sweezy at guard. I can't find any links now but Cable and Carrol have come out in his support in several articles.

 

Which gives us a rotation of Moffit, Carpenter, Sweezy at guard and set at center and left tackle and only right tackle as spot of obivous need to upgrade. I hate to say it but I still think Schnieder envisions Carpenter taking over at right tackle, which scares me. He's meh as a guard but he was hideous as a right tackle in his rookie season.

 

Not picking on your response specifically, just reading over the last few...

 

They prefer Sweezey at guard because Moffitt can't play. A rookie 7th round pick beat him out and played over him down the stretch. I mean, really? A guy that never played O-line before last year won the job?

 

Carpenter is at LG because he can't play on the right side, can't play tackle, and can't move enough to even get penciled into the starting lineup. Okung is saving his butt right now by lending support. Carpenter could be cut this year in preseason.

 

Giacomini, McQuistan. Both are signed to short team inexpensive deals which lend us to believe these veterans may be not be resigned next season because the cap dictates cheaper alternatives.

 

I suggest all of us collectively need to take a deep breath and really look hard at the situation. Our outlook at offensive line is not rosy, with only two entrenched starters, one of them a Ruskell pick for fock's sake, and I'm getting more and more concerned by the situation by the day. Hey, we've filled in so many other holes, you have to focus somewhere.

[phillybear 366]

Let me just add, I think our line is as deep as it's been in many years. Watching all the abuse Hasselbeck and Wallace took behind some real sieves was just uncomfortable to watch. But I think overall offensive line is one of the biggest positions of need for talent. He have some fill in guys, guys that try, and some guys that have flashed some potential. That's just not good enough.

 

Higher expectations lead to higher results.

[phillybear 366]

Let me throw out a couple of random thoughts, as a result of the Revis trade.

 

Percy Harvin is dealt for #25 and next year's 3rd rounder (and a 7th).

Darrell Revis is dealt for #13 and next year's 3rd rounder.

 

I just thought that was interesting, certainly considering Idzik the GM of the Jets is freshly out of the Seattle organization. So, a questionable knee Revis goes for that package, Harvin went for what he did. Are we thinking Seattle did OK on the Harvin value in the trade, in that, again, Revis is still untested health wise? And the #13 is much more expensive than #25. I kind of feel that much better about the Harvin trade, knowing what type of player gets moved for that value in today's NFL.

 

Of course, the player to keep an eye on is Tavon Austin. He is currently a borderline top 10 draft pick, the #1 WR prospect, and a guy I think the front office liked a long time ago. Once he started to climb the draft boards of a lot of teams, to land a guy with that type of talent, we weren't going to get him in the draft, you go ahead and trade for Harvin. And, without any doubt in my mind, I would much rather have Harvin than Austin. Yet, it's probably going to cost sooooo much less to land Harvin than Austin. What a weird, weird, draft world. The difference being contract money, as Harvin will make more than Austin for the foreseeable future. I sometimes wonder if we are the only team bidding for a player (Whitehurst) and outsmart ourselves.

 

OK. Let's summarize. The Harvin trade is looking better and better by the day. As far as how much better, pay attention to how early Austin gets picked.

[Joey Gladstone 33]

Just dropped in to over 1/4th of the LOB signing an extension.

 

I'm sure you've all seen these vids, if not check out all 3 parts. Good stuff.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2prLBf7w44

[Hawkfin 32]

Not picking on your response specifically, just reading over the last few...

 

They prefer Sweezey at guard because Moffitt can't play. A rookie 7th round pick beat him out and played over him down the stretch. I mean, really? A guy that never played O-line before last year won the job?

 

Carpenter is at LG because he can't play on the right side, can't play tackle, and can't move enough to even get penciled into the starting lineup. Okung is saving his butt right now by lending support. Carpenter could be cut this year in preseason.

 

Giacomini, McQuistan. Both are signed to short team inexpensive deals which lend us to believe these veterans may be not be resigned next season because the cap dictates cheaper alternatives.

 

I suggest all of us collectively need to take a deep breath and really look hard at the situation. Our outlook at offensive line is not rosy, with only two entrenched starters, one of them a Ruskell pick for fock's sake, and I'm getting more and more concerned by the situation by the day. Hey, we've filled in so many other holes, you have to focus somewhere.

These guy's are all young and drafted recentley though... They are ALL going to get better. If your not happy with them, maybe this is not our strength in drafting. Why keep investing more?

 

I personally see them all getting better though.

 

Maybe there comes a time, where we need to hit free agency to fix any issues here.

I agree we could use some Oline help still, but just not with #56. It really needs to be later I think.

I'm sure it's an option for them though. The 4 positions I see us going at #56 is DT, LB, TE, Oline.

 

I really like Moffit personally. I never liked Carpenter much, but I don't see how he can't make a good guard. Both have been hurt a lot which has set them back in development. It took Okung awhile too.

If anything, I agree with one of the posts above that possibly RT the position to be looking at.

[Hawkfin 32]

Just dropped in to over 1/4th of the LOB signing an extension.

 

I'm sure you've all seen these vids, if not check out all 3 parts. Good stuff.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2prLBf7w44

[phillybear 366]

These guy's are all young and drafted recentley though... They are ALL going to get better. If your not happy with them, maybe this is not our strength in drafting. Why keep investing more?

 

I personally see them all getting better though.

 

Maybe there comes a time, where we need to hit free agency to fix any issues here.

I agree we could use some Oline help still, but just not with #56. It really needs to be later I think.

I'm sure it's an option for them though. The 4 positions I see us going at #56 is DT, LB, TE, Oline.

 

I really like Moffit personally. I never liked Carpenter much, but I don't see how he can't make a good guard. Both have been hurt a lot which has set them back in development. It took Okung awhile too.

If anything, I agree with one of the posts above that possibly RT the position to be looking at.

 

Since the front office finally addressed the defensive line this year, I'll probably need to be patient and hope they focus on the offensive line next year. Admittedly, after taking Carpenter and Moffitt early a couple of years ago, they may not want to give up on them as quickly as I am, but frankly the mantra of open competition at every position would contradict clinging to high draft picks. I'm not convinced that all young players get better. Sometimes they just aren't good enough or just don't fit right in the system for whatever reason.

 

I think you are correct that the probable targets in the 2nd round would be DT, LB, TE, O Line, no particular order. I've reconsidered the WR need. Sidney Rice has an escalating contract that would make him hard to keep next year, with an 11 million cap cost. Golden Tate is a free agent next season and you have to make a decision on whether he deserves a big contract to keep. There will be WR prospects available.

 

As far as DT, seems that there is a mini tier of prospects forming at the bottom of the 2nd based on recent trending.

Jonathan Hankins (sliding down), Jesse Williams (sliding down), John Jenkins (moving up) might be available at that slot. Nearly there is Brandon Williams.

 

I'm rethinking our target in the 2nd round. Justin Pugh OG/OT is bottom of the 2nd round value. Experienced, very mobile, versatile, and a natural fit in a zone blocking scheme. This might be the guy we get.

 

So, I'm thinking we might grab from a pool of Zach Ertz TE, Justin Pugh OG/OT, Quinton Patton WR, or a DT from Jonathan Hankins, Jesse Williams, John Jenkins, Brandon Williams.

[FlaHawker 24]

Since the front office finally addressed the defensive line this year, I'll probably need to be patient and hope they focus on the offensive line next year. Admittedly, after taking Carpenter and Moffitt early a couple of years ago, they may not want to give up on them as quickly as I am, but frankly the mantra of open competition at every position would contradict clinging to high draft picks. I'm not convinced that all young players get better. Sometimes they just aren't good enough or just don't fit right in the system for whatever reason.

 

I think you are correct that the probable targets in the 2nd round would be DT, LB, TE, O Line, no particular order. I've reconsidered the WR need. Sidney Rice has an escalating contract that would make him hard to keep next year, with an 11 million cap cost. Golden Tate is a free agent next season and you have to make a decision on whether he deserves a big contract to keep. There will be WR prospects available.

 

As far as DT, seems that there is a mini tier of prospects forming at the bottom of the 2nd based on recent trending.

Jonathan Hankins (sliding down), Jesse Williams (sliding down), John Jenkins (moving up) might be available at that slot. Nearly there is Brandon Williams.

 

I'm rethinking our target in the 2nd round. Justin Pugh OG/OT is bottom of the 2nd round value. Experienced, very mobile, versatile, and a natural fit in a zone blocking scheme. This might be the guy we get.

 

So, I'm thinking we might grab from a pool of Zach Ertz TE, Justin Pugh OG/OT, Quinton Patton WR, or a DT from Jonathan Hankins, Jesse Williams, John Jenkins, Brandon Williams.

A couple points here:

 

1- RE: Carpenter/Moffit: Well, I agree with Hawkfin in that injuries have derailed their productivity. I think both can be solid guards when healthy. These guys were both Tom Cable approved picks so I think Cable will get the max out of them when they are healthy and ready to compete.

 

2- Zach Ertz. Heard this morning on NFL radio that he is expected to be gone by pick #39.

[FlaHawker 24]

Where do you guys rank DT Sylvester Williams from North Carolina?

[phillybear 366]

A couple points here:

 

1- RE: Carpenter/Moffit: Well, I agree with Hawkfin in that injuries have derailed their productivity. I think both can be solid guards when healthy. These guys were both Tom Cable approved picks so I think Cable will get the max out of them when they are healthy and ready to compete.

 

2- Zach Ertz. Heard this morning on NFL radio that he is expected to be gone by pick #39.

 

Great. Maybe someday Carpenter and Moffit will eventually be able to compete with whomever we draft that can actually contribute. I'm not holding my breath on Moffit and have zero expectations for Carpenter right now. I don't think this team can count of either guy right now. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

Zach Ertz was originally projected as a possible first round pick. And steadily has slowly slid down to mid 2nd round range and now even lower. Sure, he could go #39. I don't think he goes that high. Tyler Eifert is the first TE off the board, in the mid first round. Ertz is the 2nd round TE. Third round TsE are likely Vance McDonald, Gavin Escobar, Travis Kelce. The #39 ranking I feel is outdated, not realistically watching him slide lower in team rankings. Ertz is a solid TE with speed, great route running and excellent hands. He had some injury problems last year and is inconsistent in blocking which pushes his value down somewhat. But the biggest issue with Ertz is lack of potential upside. He isn't going to get that much better. He's already a solid package, but he isn't going to take a giant leap forward at the NFL level. Without that upside, more teams may let him slide. However, he fits with what Seattle is going want out of him as a 2nd TE for the next few years. Miller's contract becomes much more cap friendly the next two years, so you are going to pair him with Miller for a couple of years. Again, I could be wrong, but I think there is a good chance he is available at #56. If not, there is no real point in going TE until the 5th or 6th round, targeting a guy like Nick Kasa.