The Official Seattle Seahawks 2013 Offseason Thread

DrG · April 28, 2013

You're going to wait for A.H.

After Harbaugh.

But you are the second best team on the west coast.

phillybear · April 28, 2013

You're going to wait for A.H.

After Harbaugh.

But you are the second best team on the west coast.

Jim Harbaugh is retarded. And I don't mean that he is a dumb ass or a clown. I mean, he is literally retarded. A drooling mongoloid. A man that would have trouble putting his name in the correct spot on a Wonderlic. A man that would look at a bowl of oatmeal, and ponder how his brains fell out into a bowl. 'Ole Pudding Head throws his clipboard around the room if his sh!t tastes funny. Because he eats his sh!t. Did I mention that he is a retard? Retards watch Jim Harbaugh bumble his way down the street, point at him, and say, "Geez, what a retard".

And he's not good.

DrG · April 28, 2013

I was mistaken about Harbaugh. NFC title game his first year, Super Bowl the second.

Philly you have climbed out of the toolbox by genius alone. Not.

phillybear · April 28, 2013

I was mistaken about Harbaugh. NFC title game his first year, Super Bowl the second.

Philly you have climbed out of the toolbox by genius alone. Not.

42-13.

Let me explain. San Fran had just eeked out a come from behind win over Seattle at home despite Seattle's offense looking like crap. Seattle's offense was terrible at that point in time and Russell Wilson wasn't Russell Wilson yet; it was early in the year. After the game, mega jock meat head Jim Harbaugh took his car and drove past the Seattle team bus, blaring his car horn and waving. Seattle made a big deal about his incident in preparation for the rematch in Seattle. And what happened? 42-13. Harbaugh wrote a check his ass will never cash. All he had to do was behave like a regular coach, humble after a big win. But, he decided to rub some salt in the wound. Meat head.

42-13.

Chasers Dawg · April 28, 2013

from another forum

Gonna be very hard to predict the NFC West this year Giz. I expected Sea and StL
to take a small step up and SF to take a small step back for a complete logjam.

However Sea got screwed by the schedule and SF got major breaks. Not sure about

StL, but I believe they are in the central time zone so road kickoff should not

effect them as much

 I am refering to the non-div opponents sched. These are decided years in advance other than 2 opponents each year, so nothing is rigged here by any means. However this is how it worked out for Sea and SF

. Home and away Opp win % Sea home ~ 40% - road ~ 65% SF home ~ 65% - road ~ 40% SF has the home field for the toughest part of their sched, while Sea homefield is wasted this year. Not sure about Stl. Believe they are close to even/mostly like Sea Kickoff Times 

This is where the NFL really screwed Sea and gave SF a big legup. 5 of Sea 8 road games are at 1:00est kickoff (against the toughest part of their sched) while only 1 of SF 7 road games (not counting the England game against Jax). I don't believe the time shift has near the effect on StL but not sure. SF and Sea have a much tougher time historically dealing with this issue I will not be at all suprised to see Sea drop a few (2/3) games from last years standings with SF staying about = to last year. StL I have not looked at as deep, But they are a definate wildcard in this race for div/wc spot

e-factor · April 28, 2013

You have that wrong. We zoomed by San Fran by crushing them at the end of the year, having a killer free agency, and San Fran flopping in free agency. We are way ahead. The real question, is whether San Fran gained enough in the draft to pass St Louis for 2nd best team in the division, and whether they added enough to be able to compete with Seattle for the division. Dubious.

Wow, I know you're disappointed how the draft turned out, but don't compound it with crazy talk.

Calm down and take a deep breath. Tomorrow is another day..................

e-factor · April 28, 2013

from another forum

That's a copy and paste from Sports Outlaw that you posted yourself. :rolleyes:

Why don't you just post it here instead of trying to give it credibility as coming from an outside source?

Plus, you always claim to be a Packer fan over there.............. :shocking:

Chasers Dawg · April 28, 2013

That's a copy and paste from Sports Outlaw that you posted yourself.

Why don't you just post it here instead of trying to give it credibility as coming from an outside source?

Plus, you always claim to be a Packer fan over there..............

LOL, I am a Packesr Fan. Have been since I was about 8 years old. '66. But I am a Hawks homer. and I go by a Dif name over there and use this 1 on FBG as well

e-factor · April 28, 2013

LOL, I am a Packesr Fan. Have been since I was about 8 years old. '66. But I am a Hawks homer. and I go by a Dif name over there and use this 1 on FBG as well

Just giving you some grief my man. Good to see you............. :music_guitarred:

Saint Elistan · April 28, 2013

42-13

Thought we were talking about Harbaugh's record as 49ers HC for a second...

He's 24-7-1 though. So I guess he's on pace for 48-14-2. Close enough. :cheers:

I haven't researched the incident you're so butt hurt about, Philly, but it's entirely possible he was waving to Richard Sherman and Doug Baldwin - former players of his. But keep bein' mad.

FlaHawker · April 28, 2013

Yup, 49er fans are nervous. :wave:

FlaHawker · April 28, 2013

6.26 Spencer Ware, RB LSU.

I guess we are building a dorm for former SEC players this offseason. Let's see, Spencer Ware, a guy that was a QB in high school, lost his starting college RB job after his sophomore season, the 2nd best LSU running back in the draft and the other guy is still available, runs like a bowling ball straight ahead will absolutely no chance to change directions. I guess that makes him Mike Alstott. Has a lot of trouble not being a fatso and tested positive for drugs. Yep, he'll do nicely with the other felons we've drafted. Other than that...who am I kidding? How is this Rosie O'Donell without a d!ck going to even make the roster? He won't. So why bother drafting him? Seriously. A complete waste of a pick.

Worst pick of the draft.

Draft Analyst Matt Waldman of the Rookie Scouting Report. He wrote, earlier this offseason:

"Ware isn't a breakaway threat; he's a hot-running, helmet-crunching, break-your-back, ball-carrying warrior. He's rugged, smart, and technically sound in most aspects of the game. If Seattle didn't have a Robert Turbin, Ware is the back I'd want backing up Marshawn Lynch."

Waldman added:

Quick feet. Pad level. Balance. Strength. Second effort. All components of an excellent short-yardage runner against one of the best defenses in college football. My colleague Ryan Lownes mentioned on Twitter that he sees an athlete of Rudi Johnson's ilk - not a breakaway runner, but a player capable of grinding it out as a bell cow back. I think if you combine the styles of BenJarvus Green-Ellis and Marshawn Lynch, it captures a lot of the good that in Spencer Ware's game. Of course, name-dropping Marion Barber may suffice.

Ryan Riddle, former NFL player and now-analyst, is also very high on Ware. He wrote,

Ware is an extremely hard runner with strong leg drive. He's incredibly tough and was willing to put his head down and run over SEC linebackers. For a bigger back, Ware hits the hole fast while always running north-to-south. He's a one-cut runner with good vision, balance and will run through arm-tackles like they're wet noodles.

Sounds right.

Naturally, after the Hawks picked Michael, I had figured that Ware was out the window. Guess not. With the backfield getting a bit crowded with Lynch, Turbin, Michael and Michael Robinson, Robinson's role and cap hit begins to come into question. Ware is a logical fullback convert, a role he played at times at LSU. Ware is a fantastic pass-catcher out of the backfield and as a former HS Quarterback, has been schooled in reading defenses, similar to Robinson.

Here is Derek Stephens' scouting report on Ware:

Spencer Ware

RB

LSU

#11

0510 228 4.63

Princeton High School

Cincinnati, Ohio

Positives: Committed, decisive runner who doesn't waste time stepping to the hole. Trusts his line and doesn't do a lot of analyzing before making his cut. Loves contact and keeps the pads forward with churning legs. Balanced runner through contact, who gets low in tight spaces and adjusts his body nicely to thread the tighter creases. Looks for opportunities laterally when in the open field and approaching a defender, and possesses better-than-expected agility for his size. Good hands as a receiver.

Negatives: Lacks elite straight-line speed and a 2nd gear to pull away from secondaries at the next level. Doesn't always spot cutback opportunities and will drop his head on contact rather than leading with his shoulder. Had a reduced role in '12 due to LSU having more explosive options out of the backfield. Very capable blocker in pass protection but looks sloppy and a bit loose at times as he tends to drop his shoulder or head, rather than setting his feet and extending his arms.

Summary: Ware is a simple one-cut runner who does the majority of his damage after contact, as he possesses natural power to move the pile and break tackles. His reduced playing time in '12 prompted him leaving for the NFL but some question his judgement in doing so, being that he's choosing to leave on a low note. Potential nice fit in a zone blocking system where his decisiveness, strong initial burst and physical style of play could earn him reps early in his career.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-draft/2013/4/27/4276012/nfl-draft-results-seahawks-select-rb-spencer-ware-in-the-6th

DrG · April 28, 2013

Phillybear,

By itself the horn blaring bit wouldn't be the best move - but there is simply a lot of chatter between two teams that don't like each other.

I'd say both teams have a tough schedule. I appreciate the explanation instead of a rant

Kopy · April 28, 2013

http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-draft/2013/4/27/4276012/nfl-draft-results-seahawks-select-rb-spencer-ware-in-the-6th

Carrolls press conference said that Ware was moving to fullback.

Might be the reason why we havn't signed Robinson to a long deal.

I believe Robinson has alot of stuff he wants to do outside of football also. I do like the switch to FB.

FlaHawker · April 28, 2013

Jordan Hill:

Joey Gladstone · April 29, 2013

Is anybody else here not getting tired of watching Michael's highlight vids over and over?

:shocking:

Groundhog · April 29, 2013

Carrolls press conference said that Ware was moving to fullback.

Might be the reason why we havn't signed Robinson to a long deal.

I believe Robinson has alot of stuff he wants to do outside of football also. I do like the switch to FB.

Robinson is on the wrong side of 30. We need someone to take the reins at FB and keep opening holes for our three-headed hydra of Lynch, Turbin and Michael to keep running through. Ware fits that need pretty well. Whether he does that this season or simply plays special teams for a year before doing that next year, doesn't really matter. What matters is that there is now continuity at that position over a 2-3 year timeframe.

Hawkfin · April 29, 2013

Ok,

Here is my full draft thoughts finally if interested to here my final non-scout review of things:

I always give the benefit of who's picked, and go back and do full review of each guy after the fact.

(Well, IF I can find anything on them that is

First,

Let me say the below guy's were all somewhere on my personal board. Which is to say, I reviewed them, and I felt they were good players, and somebody that I liked. If I hated them, they were eliminated from it completely usually, or marked as such. These guy's did not fall into that category. I valued the below guy's.

Somebody like the honey badger did not make my list.

I rated them into a round based on there peers per position, but that doesn't always mean they should be drafted at that round. Just, my personal preference where they should be. I mean I had R. Wilson as a 4-5th rounder, but that's not to say he wasn't worthy of a 3rd or higher. I really liked him! Tannehill was not on my board at all though and I still don't like him today.

Anyway here is that list:

-C. Michael/RB - We had a 3rd round grade on him. (Film=boom / Stats=risk / Character=not worried about)

-J. Hill/DT - 4th round grade on him. (But, added a "high like mark" on him)

-J. Williams/DT - 2nd round grade

-T. Simon/CB - 5th-6th grade. (Didn't give like mark at the time, but he was grouped with others that did)

The rest were not graded by us nor would have made the cut.

So overall, I can't say I don't like these players listed. These 4 were on the upper tier groups and not folks that I didn't like, marked off, or downgraded. I liked them.

However, an overall evaluation of the draft left me feeling unsatisfied and disappointed.

Free agency was an A+. But, the draft was far less for me. I liked these four guy's, but I couldn't get over the RB pick in the 2nd. Why take a RB in the 2nd, with a deep class, and Lynch and Turbin who I really like for a guy that runs slower then Turbin, some troubles and injuries, low stats and carries, and has not shown a workload one year yet?

This pick just didn't make sense one bit? Still doesn't really?

But, I loved the trade down with the DT's off the board. This was sweet.

I was pissed at the time with the RB, but then we go two really good DT's later. SO even though the guy's seemed all mixed up for me, it kind of worked out somewhat. I did want to add a RB like Knile Davis around the 4-5th anyway.

Then the next problem happened. I hated the WR pick in the 4th. I do not like Harper! He was eliminated off my list. Patton was on the freaking board at the time too! I'm still pissed about this! I'm even more pissed that S.F ended up getting him! They just landed there version of P. Harvin. And I'm also ticked we kept passing on K. Greene/LB. (Who by the way will fill in at LB for Chicago and be a STUD)

Harper might try to be our version of Boldin, but I think he's a version of M. Williams or B. Edwards at best.

I was happy again when we landed J. Williams that late. Couldn't believe he was still there for us, and even more shocked we still picked him after taking Hill first. And then I liked Simon the corner too.

NOTE: Once again, our best drafting was done around the 5th round. I think J. Williams & Simon were maybe our best picks of this draft. For value and player.

Then after this, it all went south for me again. BUT, very typical of this FO and how they draft. They take combine/measurable/speed players that are "reaches" and see if any stick. I like this theory, but I feel they should wait on this until the 6th and 7th round or even non drafted players. I feel these ARE non drafted players. But, it felt like we started this in the 5th round starting with the TE and on.

I did like that we moved back up in the 5th though. Nailed that corner. Thought we should have tried to move up again rather then keep all these undrafted player hopefuls.

Hated the TE and beyond. They go on to draft another RB as if C. Michael wasn't enough already.

But, of course I didn't know them really? SO time to review them:

This is my latest reviews after the fact: (The above was first impressions)

-C. Michael/RB: Still hate that we picked him here. I'm worried IF he can really take on a full load based on stats and carries. BUT, I love the player myself. I think he's explosive, great cutting and vision. looks fast on tape and decent speed at the combine. Amazing jumper and really performed well at every combine drill. Looked great in the shrine game. He can catch, even though he didn't prove it. I NOW see that he is way more skilled then Turbin. He can hit a hole quick and explode through, he can power and run over people.

All that being said, he always runs in a shotgun draw play. This is really concerning to me.

And hell, we could have had Lacy one more pick up. I would have never made this pick, and go with a Stacy or K. Davis later. Davis has productivity just the same and injury history.

I like the player overall though - I don't understand it.

(Grade B- for player with A potential / Grade F for position of choice and risk)

-J. Hill/DT: So going back to the tape, I would NOW say he should be in the same round as J. Williams. I would give him a 2nd or 3rd round grade instead of a 4th. He's actually a more all around better DT then Williams, because I think he can hold against the run AND pressure the QB. 38 bench. My original notes had him as a pressure guy, and I still saw this on tape. He's got some major potential at DT. Sometimes I see a little weak at the point of attack, but he's got a high motor. 64 tackels. The problem I see is he's only 6'1 303. He's not big, and we usually get big long armed guy's? So again, I'm confused. Not much room to grow.

I'm not in love with Hill, but I see some good potential. I think he's a perfect replacement for

"pass rushing DT" that we need and future replacement.

(Grade B+ for player / Grade A+ for position of choice)

-C. Harper/WR: Spent a lot of time on him again rewatching tape. Ok, so I was still like Ah, I don't really like him. And when I watched Patton again, I got pissed again. That dude is SO much better overall WR IMO. Also, R. Swope was out there too. Another WR I love and another div foe (Arizona) got. They got a Welker type pick with him too. I can't get over this so I'll probably always hate this pick. I also liked Harrison way more too. Harper CAN NOT separate. His stats suck, and not even a huge school. He seems way to heavy and like 220+ and only 6'1. I would label him at best as maybe a B. Edwards or M. Williams. They liked them, so this make sense for them to like Harper. I think a mistake.

The hope is he'll be our version of Boldin. In fact, he ran way faster then Boldin. But, I don't think he can catch like him and I don't think he shields off defenders like him, and not great route runner to form separation. He can jump up there, but he'll drop it. I don't really see a red zone threat that much.

But, he's surprisingly fast. This is where I have hope. If he can be our mussel at WR and with that speed and at least 6'1, maybe there is hope? I just don't see it translate on to the field though.

He seems more like a Baldwin then a Boldin, and I wonder if he would even beat him out. But, there is some hope. He's fast and big. He's something we don't have, even though I wanted a 6'3+ type guy. I can see why they wanted a different player, as Patton fits a mold like Harvin and Tate. But, I can't believe they passed on him for Harper. Maybe he'll be a really good run blocking WR for us too. I can see that.

I'm still not a fan. He's not worth a 4th to me. 6th is the highest I can see. I don't think he'll be taking over as a starting WR someday.

(D+ for player / B+ for position of choice / F for who they passed on)

-J. Williams/DT: Love this pick. The player, the value. I don't need to say much more. He'll replace our run stuffing DT and plug right in. He's the opposite of Hill somewhat, and between the two of them we really filled the hole at DT. He's not a great pass rusher, but when I went back to the tape, I actually think he's got potential. He's got some push. I kept mixing him up with J. Hawkins who is ONLY a run stuffer. J. Williams I think is a bit more, MAYBE. This is why I originally had him in the 2nd. I could see some push up the middle with him. Regardless, this is a sweet pick. I think our best pick.

(A for player / A- for position of choice / A++ for value) *Best plug and start pick

-T. Simon/CB: After a re-review, I'm not sure what we were thinking. I LOVE this guy. My original grade of 5th-6th round was off. I think the low stats threw us off or we got tired, or because he was originally ranked low on the sheet we started with. BUT, love this guy. I see Sherman all over again. OR at least a Browner replacement. He stands 6'3, 187, and runs fast. Decent PD's with 8, low tackles. But, he is a coverage CB. He's is great at bump and run which is rare, when you add in his height and speed. He can hang with the deep wides. He works hard and is a fighter. SO much better then the honey badger from LSU who went way to freaking early. We got the better deal on this one finally. (Sorry Arizona)

I had him as a thin frame originally, but I actually think he looks pretty solid. I love his aggressiveness and coverage skills, etc. Only negative I can see is in run support. Does some arm tackles and sometimes misses. But, he also sometimes explodes into folks and hits hard. So I think it's a non issue really.

I thought we might need a more shifty, nickel corner. But, this is a Browner replacement IMO.

I think this is a great pick! One of my favorites now. I really like S. Commings, but this is just as good. I would give him a 3rd round grade or maybe even higher now. We nailed these two 5th round picks.

(B+ for player with A potential / A+ for position of choice, player, value of potential)

-L. Wilson/TE: Come on now. Rice? 2nd string TE? This is a undrafted free agent if I ever saw one. You just landed two studs IMO who could plug right in, at during this same round. I guess I should be forgiving or realize I'm just a nobody, but this pick is garbage in comparison. 5th round waist. He's no better then the TE we signed off the street in free agency. 9 catches last year is laughable. His other years are not much better.

Ok, I see the potential in measurable. Timed well, was the statement about him. There's still studs out there though. Wait on this. That's my problem with this pick. There was great WR's on the board here.

We could do that, and something else like a LB in the 4th instead of Harper.

(We could have K. Greene and Swope)

To be honest, I can't find much tape. But, I didn't even like there starter much. J. Fauria would have made some sense of we went TE late.

(F for player / We will still need a TE so F for position of choice at that point/Very weak class.

S. Ware/RB: So now I'm really confused. If C. Michael was SO good to not pass up, then why are you taking another one now? A RB pick here would have been a great pick and good enough for what we already have on the roster. We didn't need to spend a 2nd rounder on Michael. This is all we really needed. That being said, who was he? Looking at stats - They SUCK. Another reach.

But, looking at tape: I liked him. Another mold in the Lynch/Turbin role. He's a pounder and hits folks and runs hard. He looks good. But, he's also a 1 cut pony. Then I find out he'll be our FB most likely.

SO now, the pick makes some sense. I always thought, we needed a FB and replacement for Robinson soon.

However, it would have been nice to get an actual one. Can this guy block? He can hit, so maybe?

I'm ok with this pick now that I know what's going on. If they can turn him into a FB, it will be a great pick.

We'll see? I feel better now though. I see the potential. Good round to try it in. Good potential. Still a free agent signing to me.

(C- for RB, B+ for FB that can run, A+ if he can be converted fully, D- for "true FB". A+ for position choice)

R. Seymour/OG: I didn't rate Oline, but I have to say I love going Oline late in the draft. Especially, after all the picks we've spent over the last few years.

I went back on the tape for him - WOW, I love this guy! I may have rated him in the 3rd round or something. He looks way better then Carpenter ever did. He is amazing to me. Almost 6'5 300 and ran decent. He does not get moved. He usually pushes people forward in fact, even on passing downs as impressive as that sounds. He can pull and is dam good in supporting the run. I see no flaws personally. I like his character too. He looks to always work hard on tape, and he's a healthy guy (unlike a lot of our other picks). He'll even help out on multiple guy's. He plays all over the line too/guards. I really, really like this pick. I wonder if he can even play RT. He's my fav late pick easy. I think he could plug right in. It's pretty cool to watch some highschool too, as he was blowing them back 10 yards and planting them. Reminded me of that movie.

I actually saw it a few times in college too.

I guess 2 issues if I had to find something: Competition level? And sometimes he had a hard time with a speed guy in the open area. Or if they put on some kind of special crazy fast stunt where he got confused at late. SO lateral catchup speed maybe? But, it was rare. And I find just as much he helped save his QB coming back. But what I saw, if he get his paws on you your not moving him and usually going back. LOVE THIS PICK. He might be the steel the more I think about it.

(I'm just going to say A+ all around)

T. Powell/Harding & J. Smith/New Hampshire - DE-LB Tweeners.

I can't really rate I guess. I can't find good tape. But, small schools, etc.

I just think they are free agents. And who cares if you can't get them. I'd rather have picked a Harrison/6'5 WR with 4.4 speed who's probably better then Harper then these kind of guys. Or Chase Thomas/LB and try and fill a need/depth.

I'll say this: I can't remember now which one, maybe J. Smith, but I think it was one of the free agents that we also reviewed, but one of them reminded me completely of Irvin. He was a pure "light" DE and rushed the passer really well. Carbon copy of Irvin I thought. I don't think it was these two, I think it was a free agent. He was close to 260. His tape looked real good though.

Personally, these two, I feel like rating both F for player/value/position.

I'd rather have got a kicker somewhere or GEEZ - Give me any QB. There was some great depth at QB. These are undrafted free agent types.

M. Bowie/OT: I like this pick. He's got potential too. This is solid pick. I'm kind of forgetting now what he's like, and i'm tired of writing, but I liked him. Value good. Player choice good. Another small school though. Why the small school guy's? Ugh

Last note: LOVE at least 4 of the free agents. We got 1 solid LB who I'm forgetting his name, there's one guy like Irvin/DE, a very nice Safety. Really like the safety. I'm very excited about him!

I don't understand no QB and lack of wanting a LB. These 2 areas bug me.

Overall draft not including Harvin: hmmmm, hard to say, you do my math?

Maybe B- overall? I think they hit on a few again. I like the RB and we still fixed our DT issues. Reached on the bottom half, but also maybe hit on guards.

I wanted to solve DT, and I think that happened or hopefully. The best we could do I think. I'm not sure we got a stud rushing DT, but that's near impossible anyway. We got way better for sure. RB got better, and who knows? Maybe they trade Lynch before he falls off? Future corner starter, Guard got a starter or two, maybe a future FB, like the free agent safety. We'll see on LB. I do have hope for one of the undrafted free agents, but I wanted a stud high draft pick there.

I think we missed on WR with Harper with that important 4th pick, missed on backup QB, really missed hard on LB with K. Greene especially, TE will be a huge need someday soon still.

When you add in our free agency and Harvin - I'm happy!

Go Hawks.

P.S.

-Love the 9ers draft. Scary with Patton. A

-Love the Rams draft. Scary with Austin and Bailey. A

-Hated Arizona draft, but they nailed R. Swope. Best pick. F other then Swope.

WR's got really really good in our Div.

FlaHawker · April 29, 2013

Ok,

Here is my full draft thoughts finally if interested to here my final non-scout review of things:

I always give the benefit of who's picked, and go back and do full review of each guy after the fact.

(Well, IF I can find anything on them that is

First,

Let me say the below guy's were all somewhere on my personal board. Which is to say, I reviewed them, and I felt they were good players, and somebody that I liked. If I hated them, they were eliminated from it completely usually, or marked as such. These guy's did not fall into that category. I valued the below guy's.

Somebody like the honey badger did not make my list.

I rated them into a round based on there peers per position, but that doesn't always mean they should be drafted at that round. Just, my personal preference where they should be. I mean I had R. Wilson as a 4-5th rounder, but that's not to say he wasn't worthy of a 3rd or higher. I really liked him! Tannehill was not on my board at all though and I still don't like him today.

Anyway here is that list:

-C. Michael/RB - We had a 3rd round grade on him. (Film=boom / Stats=risk / Character=not worried about)

-J. Hill/DT - 4th round grade on him. (But, added a "high like mark" on him)

-J. Williams/DT - 2nd round grade

-T. Simon/CB - 5th-6th grade. (Didn't give like mark at the time, but he was grouped with others that did)

The rest were not graded by us nor would have made the cut.

So overall, I can't say I don't like these players listed. These 4 were on the upper tier groups and not folks that I didn't like, marked off, or downgraded. I liked them.

However, an overall evaluation of the draft left me feeling unsatisfied and disappointed.

Free agency was an A+. But, the draft was far less for me. I liked these four guy's, but I couldn't get over the RB pick in the 2nd. Why take a RB in the 2nd, with a deep class, and Lynch and Turbin who I really like for a guy that runs slower then Turbin, some troubles and injuries, low stats and carries, and has not shown a workload one year yet?

This pick just didn't make sense one bit? Still doesn't really?

But, I loved the trade down with the DT's off the board. This was sweet.

I was pissed at the time with the RB, but then we go two really good DT's later. SO even though the guy's seemed all mixed up for me, it kind of worked out somewhat. I did want to add a RB like Knile Davis around the 4-5th anyway.

Then the next problem happened. I hated the WR pick in the 4th. I do not like Harper! He was eliminated off my list. Patton was on the freaking board at the time too! I'm still pissed about this! I'm even more pissed that S.F ended up getting him! They just landed there version of P. Harvin. And I'm also ticked we kept passing on K. Greene/LB. (Who by the way will fill in at LB for Chicago and be a STUD)

Harper might try to be our version of Boldin, but I think he's a version of M. Williams or B. Edwards at best.

I was happy again when we landed J. Williams that late. Couldn't believe he was still there for us, and even more shocked we still picked him after taking Hill first. And then I liked Simon the corner too.

NOTE: Once again, our best drafting was done around the 5th round. I think J. Williams & Simon were maybe our best picks of this draft. For value and player.

Then after this, it all went south for me again. BUT, very typical of this FO and how they draft. They take combine/measurable/speed players that are "reaches" and see if any stick. I like this theory, but I feel they should wait on this until the 6th and 7th round or even non drafted players. I feel these ARE non drafted players. But, it felt like we started this in the 5th round starting with the TE and on.

I did like that we moved back up in the 5th though. Nailed that corner. Thought we should have tried to move up again rather then keep all these undrafted player hopefuls.

Hated the TE and beyond. They go on to draft another RB as if C. Michael wasn't enough already.

But, of course I didn't know them really? SO time to review them:

This is my latest reviews after the fact: (The above was first impressions)

-C. Michael/RB: Still hate that we picked him here. I'm worried IF he can really take on a full load based on stats and carries. BUT, I love the player myself. I think he's explosive, great cutting and vision. looks fast on tape and decent speed at the combine. Amazing jumper and really performed well at every combine drill. Looked great in the shrine game. He can catch, even though he didn't prove it. I NOW see that he is way more skilled then Turbin. He can hit a hole quick and explode through, he can power and run over people.

All that being said, he always runs in a shotgun draw play. This is really concerning to me.

And hell, we could have had Lacy one more pick up. I would have never made this pick, and go with a Stacy or K. Davis later. Davis has productivity just the same and injury history.

I like the player overall though - I don't understand it.

(Grade B- for player with A potential / Grade F for position of choice and risk)

-J. Hill/DT: So going back to the tape, I would NOW say he should be in the same round as J. Williams. I would give him a 2nd or 3rd round grade instead of a 4th. He's actually a more all around better DT then Williams, because I think he can hold against the run AND pressure the QB. 38 bench. My original notes had him as a pressure guy, and I still saw this on tape. He's got some major potential at DT. Sometimes I see a little weak at the point of attack, but he's got a high motor. 64 tackels. The problem I see is he's only 6'1 303. He's not big, and we usually get big long armed guy's? So again, I'm confused. Not much room to grow.

I'm not in love with Hill, but I see some good potential. I think he's a perfect replacement for

"pass rushing DT" that we need and future replacement.

(Grade B+ for player / Grade A+ for position of choice)

-C. Harper/WR: Spent a lot of time on him again rewatching tape. Ok, so I was still like Ah, I don't really like him. And when I watched Patton again, I got pissed again. That dude is SO much better overall WR IMO. Also, R. Swope was out there too. Another WR I love and another div foe (Arizona) got. They got a Welker type pick with him too. I can't get over this so I'll probably always hate this pick. I also liked Harrison way more too. Harper CAN NOT separate. His stats suck, and not even a huge school. He seems way to heavy and like 220+ and only 6'1. I would label him at best as maybe a B. Edwards or M. Williams. They liked them, so this make sense for them to like Harper. I think a mistake.

The hope is he'll be our version of Boldin. In fact, he ran way faster then Boldin. But, I don't think he can catch like him and I don't think he shields off defenders like him, and not great route runner to form separation. He can jump up there, but he'll drop it. I don't really see a red zone threat that much.

But, he's surprisingly fast. This is where I have hope. If he can be our mussel at WR and with that speed and at least 6'1, maybe there is hope? I just don't see it translate on to the field though.

He seems more like a Baldwin then a Boldin, and I wonder if he would even beat him out. But, there is some hope. He's fast and big. He's something we don't have, even though I wanted a 6'3+ type guy. I can see why they wanted a different player, as Patton fits a mold like Harvin and Tate. But, I can't believe they passed on him for Harper. Maybe he'll be a really good run blocking WR for us too. I can see that.

I'm still not a fan. He's not worth a 4th to me. 6th is the highest I can see. I don't think he'll be taking over as a starting WR someday.

(D+ for player / B+ for position of choice / F for who they passed on)

-J. Williams/DT: Love this pick. The player, the value. I don't need to say much more. He'll replace our run stuffing DT and plug right in. He's the opposite of Hill somewhat, and between the two of them we really filled the hole at DT. He's not a great pass rusher, but when I went back to the tape, I actually think he's got potential. He's got some push. I kept mixing him up with J. Hawkins who is ONLY a run stuffer. J. Williams I think is a bit more, MAYBE. This is why I originally had him in the 2nd. I could see some push up the middle with him. Regardless, this is a sweet pick. I think our best pick.

(A for player / A- for position of choice / A++ for value) *Best plug and start pick

-T. Simon/CB: After a re-review, I'm not sure what we were thinking. I LOVE this guy. My original grade of 5th-6th round was off. I think the low stats threw us off or we got tired, or because he was originally ranked low on the sheet we started with. BUT, love this guy. I see Sherman all over again. OR at least a Browner replacement. He stands 6'3, 187, and runs fast. Decent PD's with 8, low tackles. But, he is a coverage CB. He's is great at bump and run which is rare, when you add in his height and speed. He can hang with the deep wides. He works hard and is a fighter. SO much better then the honey badger from LSU who went way to freaking early. We got the better deal on this one finally. (Sorry Arizona)

I had him as a thin frame originally, but I actually think he looks pretty solid. I love his aggressiveness and coverage skills, etc. Only negative I can see is in run support. Does some arm tackles and sometimes misses. But, he also sometimes explodes into folks and hits hard. So I think it's a non issue really.

I thought we might need a more shifty, nickel corner. But, this is a Browner replacement IMO.

I think this is a great pick! One of my favorites now. I really like S. Commings, but this is just as good. I would give him a 3rd round grade or maybe even higher now. We nailed these two 5th round picks.

(B+ for player with A potential / A+ for position of choice, player, value of potential)

-L. Wilson/TE: Come on now. Rice? 2nd string TE? This is a undrafted free agent if I ever saw one. You just landed two studs IMO who could plug right in, at during this same round. I guess I should be forgiving or realize I'm just a nobody, but this pick is garbage in comparison. 5th round waist. He's no better then the TE we signed off the street in free agency. 9 catches last year is laughable. His other years are not much better.

Ok, I see the potential in measurable. Timed well, was the statement about him. There's still studs out there though. Wait on this. That's my problem with this pick. There was great WR's on the board here.

We could do that, and something else like a LB in the 4th instead of Harper.

(We could have K. Greene and Swope)

To be honest, I can't find much tape. But, I didn't even like there starter much. J. Fauria would have made some sense of we went TE late.

(F for player / We will still need a TE so F for position of choice at that point/Very weak class.

S. Ware/RB: So now I'm really confused. If C. Michael was SO good to not pass up, then why are you taking another one now? A RB pick here would have been a great pick and good enough for what we already have on the roster. We didn't need to spend a 2nd rounder on Michael. This is all we really needed. That being said, who was he? Looking at stats - They SUCK. Another reach.

But, looking at tape: I liked him. Another mold in the Lynch/Turbin role. He's a pounder and hits folks and runs hard. He looks good. But, he's also a 1 cut pony. Then I find out he'll be our FB most likely.

SO now, the pick makes some sense. I always thought, we needed a FB and replacement for Robinson soon.

However, it would have been nice to get an actual one. Can this guy block? He can hit, so maybe?

I'm ok with this pick now that I know what's going on. If they can turn him into a FB, it will be a great pick.

We'll see? I feel better now though. I see the potential. Good round to try it in. Good potential. Still a free agent signing to me.

(C- for RB, B+ for FB that can run, A+ if he can be converted fully, D- for "true FB". A+ for position choice)

R. Seymour/OG: I didn't rate Oline, but I have to say I love going Oline late in the draft. Especially, after all the picks we've spent over the last few years.

I went back on the tape for him - WOW, I love this guy! I may have rated him in the 3rd round or something. He looks way better then Carpenter ever did. He is amazing to me. Almost 6'5 300 and ran decent. He does not get moved. He usually pushes people forward in fact, even on passing downs as impressive as that sounds. He can pull and is dam good in supporting the run. I see no flaws personally. I like his character too. He looks to always work hard on tape, and he's a healthy guy (unlike a lot of our other picks). He'll even help out on multiple guy's. He plays all over the line too/guards. I really, really like this pick. I wonder if he can even play RT. He's my fav late pick easy. I think he could plug right in. It's pretty cool to watch some highschool too, as he was blowing them back 10 yards and planting them. Reminded me of that movie.

I actually saw it a few times in college too.

I guess 2 issues if I had to find something: Competition level? And sometimes he had a hard time with a speed guy in the open area. Or if they put on some kind of special crazy fast stunt where he got confused at late. SO lateral catchup speed maybe? But, it was rare. And I find just as much he helped save his QB coming back. But what I saw, if he get his paws on you your not moving him and usually going back. LOVE THIS PICK. He might be the steel the more I think about it.

(I'm just going to say A+ all around)

T. Powell/Harding & J. Smith/New Hampshire - DE-LB Tweeners.

I can't really rate I guess. I can't find good tape. But, small schools, etc.

I just think they are free agents. And who cares if you can't get them. I'd rather have picked a Harrison/6'5 WR with 4.4 speed who's probably better then Harper then these kind of guys. Or Chase Thomas/LB and try and fill a need/depth.

I'll say this: I can't remember now which one, maybe J. Smith, but I think it was one of the free agents that we also reviewed, but one of them reminded me completely of Irvin. He was a pure "light" DE and rushed the passer really well. Carbon copy of Irvin I thought. I don't think it was these two, I think it was a free agent. He was close to 260. His tape looked real good though.

Personally, these two, I feel like rating both F for player/value/position.

I'd rather have got a kicker somewhere or GEEZ - Give me any QB. There was some great depth at QB. These are undrafted free agent types.

M. Bowie/OT: I like this pick. He's got potential too. This is solid pick. I'm kind of forgetting now what he's like, and i'm tired of writing, but I liked him. Value good. Player choice good. Another small school though. Why the small school guy's? Ugh

Last note: LOVE at least 4 of the free agents. We got 1 solid LB who I'm forgetting his name, there's one guy like Irvin/DE, a very nice Safety. Really like the safety. I'm very excited about him!

I don't understand no QB and lack of wanting a LB. These 2 areas bug me.

Overall draft not including Harvin: hmmmm, hard to say, you do my math?

Maybe B- overall? I think they hit on a few again. I like the RB and we still fixed our DT issues. Reached on the bottom half, but also maybe hit on guards.

I wanted to solve DT, and I think that happened or hopefully. The best we could do I think. I'm not sure we got a stud rushing DT, but that's near impossible anyway. We got way better for sure. RB got better, and who knows? Maybe they trade Lynch before he falls off? Future corner starter, Guard got a starter or two, maybe a future FB, like the free agent safety. We'll see on LB. I do have hope for one of the undrafted free agents, but I wanted a stud high draft pick there.

I think we missed on WR with Harper with that important 4th pick, missed on backup QB, really missed hard on LB with K. Greene especially, TE will be a huge need someday soon still.

When you add in our free agency and Harvin - I'm happy!

Go Hawks.

P.S.

-Love the 9ers draft. Scary with Patton. A

-Love the Rams draft. Scary with Austin and Bailey. A

-Hated Arizona draft, but they nailed R. Swope. Best pick. F other then Swope.

WR's got really really good in our Div.

How do you grade a draft when the picks have not even played a down yet? :dunno:

Hawkfin · April 29, 2013

How do you grade a draft when the picks have not even played a down yet?

People always want to try and "project" things. You maybe shouldn't read it if you have a problem with it. But, you probably did because you were "Interested to hear a person's take" And that's the only point to it. It's for fun. And why not give my views, since I've spent so much time evaluating and looking at tape and my team personally. Take it or leave it. Harper could be a stud, who knows until it's all said and done?

And the Seahawks do an amazing job at giving young guy's a real good shot and opportunity to play and start.

Of course it's just projections and best guesses based on "what I think". How do you play F.F. and rate guy's when they haven't even played a new year yet or rookies enter the season? Just fun and projections.

Groundhog · April 29, 2013

Overall I like what the Hawks did on draft day, with one exception. I really think they needed more re-tooling on the OL. This draft to me says that PC/JS think that Breno at RT is not easily replaced, nor is Carpenter at LG. And they like either Sweezy or Moffitt at RG. I think I can sign on to Moffitt or Sweezy at RG, but I think Carp was a mistake and that Breno could be improved upon.

Everywhere else? I like what they did. Michael will probably allow Lynch to keep to 200 carries this season instead of maybe 275-300 carries. This means fresher legs which maybe adds 2-3 seasons to his career lifespan. Ware is either a short-term or long-term replacement for Michael Robinson. Jordan Hill can be a disruptive force inside which we clearly need. Jesse Williams can help spell Red Bryant to keep him healthy - notice how badly the run D fell apart after he got injured last year. Chris Harper is a big, physical receiver who won't mind getting dirty in the running game and can outmuscle CBs for balls when called on. Simon is more help at the back line which is a plus if we start running more 4-2-5 type schemes.

It's also interesting to me that we seem to be going further down the road of 'we will out-physical you', and more of an emphasis on the running game, at a time when most other teams are going the opposite, focusing on speed and the passing game. Fortunately, we have not turned into the Bears of the 1970s, because if you sell out to stop the run, then Wilson, Harvin etc. will burn you.

Maybe our approach will become unique to the point that many other teams can't or won't have the right personnel to deal with it. We come in, we mash the ball down your throats, and we take away your willingness to fight.

FlaHawker · April 29, 2013

People always want to try and "project" things. You maybe shouldn't read it if you have a problem with it. But, you probably did because you were "Interested to hear a person's take" And that's the only point to it. It's for fun. And why not give my views, since I've spent so much time evaluating and looking at tape and my team personally. Take it or leave it. Harper could be a stud, who knows until it's all said and done?

And the Seahawks do an amazing job at giving young guy's a real good shot and opportunity to play and start.

Of course it's just projections and best guesses based on "what I think". How do you play F.F. and rate guy's when they haven't even played a new year yet or rookies enter the season? Just fun and projections.

FF and real football are two different beasts. In FF guys have a track record (past stats); rookies, the highly regarded rookies, have a a preseason that is used for analysis. I know you enjoy what you do and I don't mean to rain on your parade, but seriously, guys like you comment and grade players when all you have done is watched a few youtube videos. I mean even Rob Staton refused to comment on the a lot of the late round picks because he didn't have enough info and he is about as connected to this stuff as anyone.

Hawkfin · April 29, 2013

FF and real football are two different beasts. In FF guys have a track record (past stats); rookies, the highly regarded rookies, have a a preseason that is used for analysis. I know you enjoy what you do and I don't mean to rain on your parade, but seriously, guys like you comment and grade players when all you have done is watched a few youtube videos. I mean even Rob Staton refused to comment on the a lot of the late round picks because he didn't have enough info and he is about as connected to this stuff as anyone.

Every year is different in FF. If you go by last years stats, I'm crushing you. just saying.

I know it's different. But, you don't think there is a "track record" in college/film/big schools vs small schools too?

You seem to listen to Rob Staton a whole lot considering he does the exact same stuff as me IMO. You quote that site often. I love what they do over there. And they project just as much or more with no real proof of anything. It's all there personal views based on film too. They throw out lots of stuff, so something will always stick. They do a better job of hitting on seahawk likes and what they typically draft though, to where I stick to my board and best players regardless IF it's a seahawky pick. But, they do a very good job!

And what exactly did the Seahawks view with 9 catches last year from a backup TE from Rice. It's clear and I think they said as much, that they got him for measurables and ability to get down field. (basically he can run)

I say that's a waist with a 5th round pick. Get that in a non drafted free agent. That's not how they found Sherman or Chanchellor. Those guy's all had tape behind them. R. Wilson had tape behind him.

I also did not really put big reviews of those lower round guy's anyway. I admitted I could not find tape on the 7th rounders, but again, there's a reason there's not much. I think I said, I "want" to give the picks a F.

I think my review was still a pretty good and fair one and it showed a lot of the good picks the Hawks made. If you want to blow steam up the Hawks butts and say everything is peachy and A+ that's cool. But, IMO, half the picks won't make this team in 3 years and were basically small school, reach, free agent type picks.

But, they also did really well with the other half including some of the late round picks that I gave glowing reviews about.

To each is own. I figured you wouldn't want to hear it.

Hawkfin · April 29, 2013

FF and real football are two different beasts. In FF guys have a track record (past stats); rookies, the highly regarded rookies, have a a preseason that is used for analysis. I know you enjoy what you do and I don't mean to rain on your parade, but seriously, guys like you comment and grade players when all you have done is watched a few youtube videos. I mean even Rob Staton refused to comment on the a lot of the late round picks because he didn't have enough info and he is about as connected to this stuff as anyone.

Oh also,

I do a WHOLE lot more then a few you tube video's or highlight videos. That's part of it of course, but I will actually pull up games (NOT RELATED TO THE PLAYER) and then watch that player even though they are not show casing him. I look up all stats, interviews, multiple sources about the player, Combine, Pro Day, and more.

It's not worth explaining it all actually.

I mean I know our FO and Scouts have MUCH MORE, and I'm a nobody, but there is enough data to support a good or bad pick IMO, just like in F.F.

Fantasy Noob · April 29, 2013

Was in the cardroom for the end of the second round and the running joke was...

"We waited two days to draft a girl?" :shocking:

Not too concerned about 49ers draft was solid like ours but nothing outstanding. I am however concerned about the Rams, I liked their draft a lot. I think the Rams could be a much tougher team this year and they always play us tough. Another couple of drafts like this out of the Rams and our division could become just brutal.

FlaHawker · April 29, 2013

Oh also,

I do a WHOLE lot more then a few you tube video's or highlight videos. That's part of it of course, but I will actually pull up games (NOT RELATED TO THE PLAYER) and then watch that player even though they are not show casing him. I look up all stats, interviews, multiple sources about the player, Combine, Pro Day, and more.

It's not worth explaining it all actually.

I mean I know our FO and Scouts have MUCH MORE, and I'm a nobody, but there is enough data to support a good or bad pick IMO, just like in F.F.

I just don't get it I guess. I mean what is your end game? In fantasy football I do all this research and analyze the players then draft my team. If I do a good job I win my league and take home a pot of cash. But like you said, if you are having fun, rock on. :dunno:

FlaHawker · April 29, 2013

Every year is different in FF. If you go by last years stats, I'm crushing you. just saying.

I know it's different. But, you don't think there is a "track record" in college/film/big schools vs small schools too?

You seem to listen to Rob Staton a whole lot considering he does the exact same stuff as me IMO. You quote that site often. I love what they do over there. And they project just as much or more with no real proof of anything. It's all there personal views based on film too. They throw out lots of stuff, so something will always stick. They do a better job of hitting on seahawk likes and what they typically draft though, to where I stick to my board and best players regardless IF it's a seahawky pick. But, they do a very good job!

And what exactly did the Seahawks view with 9 catches last year from a backup TE from Rice. It's clear and I think they said as much, that they got him for measurables and ability to get down field. (basically he can run)

I say that's a waist with a 5th round pick. Get that in a non drafted free agent. That's not how they found Sherman or Chanchellor. Those guy's all had tape behind them. R. Wilson had tape behind him.

I also did not really put big reviews of those lower round guy's anyway. I admitted I could not find tape on the 7th rounders, but again, there's a reason there's not much. I think I said, I "want" to give the picks a F.

I think my review was still a pretty good and fair one and it showed a lot of the good picks the Hawks made. If you want to blow steam up the Hawks butts and say everything is peachy and A+ that's cool. But, IMO, half the picks won't make this team in 3 years and were basically small school, reach, free agent type picks.

But, they also did really well with the other half including some of the late round picks that I gave glowing reviews about.

To each is own. I figured you wouldn't want to hear it.

I don't grade the Hawks drafts. I look forward to seeing how these guys play during mini camps and preseason and then the regular season. Then I will now whether or not a certain TE from Rice was worth a 5th round pick or not. Right now, there is no way to tell. You say sign him as an undrafted FA. How do you know he would not have been drafted by another team? I was listening to Doug Marrone on the NFL radio this morning and he made a good point. He said that in the end you have no idea how other teams view the players so if you like a player you take him. Luke Willson obviously had tape behind him, along with interviews, individual workouts, interviews with coaches etc... and based on the Hawks board he was the guy to take in RD 5.

Most draftniks, including Rob Staton, only have so much information so trying to correctly predict what any team will do is, essentially, an exercise in futility. I mean two years ago Staton had the Hawks taking Courtney Upshaw in almost every mock draft. :dunno:

Hawkfin · April 29, 2013

I just don't get it I guess. I mean what is your end game? In fantasy football I do all this research and analyze the players then draft my team. If I do a good job I win my league and take home a pot of cash. But like you said, if you are having fun, rock on.

My end game is that I play in $1,000 leagues in F.F.... And I'm well prepared when rookies enter the NFL and how they impact everybody else. I can better see how teams improve (or make mistakes) because of my evaluations IMO. I'll track down where guy's I like go. It all goes hand in hand and helps in complete evaluations and F.F. prospects.

Think about it - If a Def or offense gets better, then players around them get better. If players get better, it effects F.F. and everybody related.

That being said, I also have fun like you say and it's a hobby that I think me and my bro are good at.

AND, I'm invested highly in the Seahawks. I "root" for things to happen because I feel strongly about it with my predictions and evaluations.

And I give my honest views, not just HOPES and see what happens. Sure, I can be a rah-rah fan and have confidence in what they are doing, and just see what happens. But, what fun is that really. Basically, who cares then. Just let the chips fall. Why talk about it, Why discuss, why listen.

I have a viewpoint! It's what makes media interesting.

FlaHawker · April 29, 2013

My end game is that I play in $1,000 leagues in F.F.... And I'm well prepared when rookies enter the NFL and how they impact everybody else. I can better see how teams improve (or make mistakes) because of my evaluations IMO. I'll track down where guy's I like go. It all goes hand in hand and helps in complete evaluations and F.F. prospects.

Think about it - If a Def or offense gets better, then players around them get better. If players get better, it effects F.F. and everybody related.

That being said, I also have fun like you say and it's a hobby that I think me and my bro are good at.

AND, I'm invested highly in the Seahawks. I "root" for things to happen because I feel strongly about it with my predictions and evaluations.

And I give my honest views, not just HOPES and see what happens. Sure, I can be a rah-rah fan and have confidence in what they are doing, and just see what happens. But, what fun is that really. Basically, who cares then. Just let the chips fall. Why talk about it, Why discuss, why listen.

I have a viewpoint! It's what makes media interesting.

So you play in high stakes leagues? FFPC?

Hawkfin · April 29, 2013

So you play in high stakes leagues? FFPC?

Done a few like this, but not that league specifically.

I was looking into this one this year though actually. Funny you bring it up.

I've been doing multiple 1K leagues at Antsports for most years.

I wouldn't call it that high stakes, as it's top end is limited. But, I've enjoyed the format and low key.

It's still gambling, so I don't get to crazy. But, I've done well there and just stuck with it.

Kopy · April 30, 2013

O.K. So here's another fans .02 on these guys.

Christine Michael rb - I was very vocal about hateing him. Still do. I predict he won't even b e on this team in 2 years. Absolutely horrible pick imo.

Jordan Hill dt - I think this was a great pick. I know Philly wasn't too impressed. But I feel real good on my chances of proving him wrong with this kid.

Chris Harper wr - The measurables and potential i think is there. I said earlier, I thought he'd have to be eased in for a season, and as our 5th reciever. We do have the ability to do that with him. This is more of a wait and see pick for me. Unfortunitly knowing we passed on guys who were still available that I valued alot higher is what hurts here. It is what it is here, we'll see what happens.

Jesse Williams dt - Great pick. We all love this kid, nuff said.

Tharold Simon db - This pick seems boom or bust to me. We all knew at some point they'd grab another kid for the secondary. This is who they wanted, he seems to fit what they want. Another wait and see for me.

Luke Wilson te - :dunno: I have know f'n clue on this kid. I think the pick just sucks.

Spencer Ware rb - Love the pick with him moving to FB. In the fantasy world (the other thing we do around here) he was a sleeper type kid for alot of peop[le in the internet world. To me, I thought he was a Marion Barber type guy. I thought he could take a beating, but wasn't sure how long his shelf life could be as the main guy (alot like Barber also in this sence) Then finding out he was moving to FB, and was gonna take a pounding for someone else (in our case a stud rb) I love the pick. The kid played Baseball and Basketball also. And LSU uses about 10 rb's a season so I think he gets a raw deal from people whole look for just game film on him.

Ryan Seymore g - Truth be told. I didn't know who this was. Luckily, I am a huge fan of Zac Stacy. He was/is my #2 rb from this draft. I still had all my videos of him saved, so I had alot to work with when looking for Seymore. To me this is an excellent pick. I'm very excited about this kid and think we stole someone here. He reminds me very much of Chris Gray.

Ty Powell de - I got nothing here either. Like Wilson, to me its a wasted pick.

Jared Smith g - The kid is being switched from dt to guard. So there's nothing here to even see. Seems like this years J.R. Sweezy to me. But from all accounts, Cable really likes him. And as a great o-line coach plus our assistant head coach, if he likes him, I'm all aboard too. Hell at this point it's the 7th round. It is what it is.

Michael Bowie t - This seems like another boom or bust pick. Not alot I could find of him because of his issues. What I saw I liked. Still don't know why he couldn't play? I suppose we'll see what happens here. Again 7th round, Tom Cable project. It is what it is.

* We also signed several udfa's.

Not too much caught my eye.

I think Alvin Bailey t - Might be a decent pick. Another Cable guy. Between the couple late draft picks, plus this kid. I think someone

will be worthwhile.

John Lotulelei lb - This might be the kid I think Hawkfan or someone else mentioned earlier? We did bring in other LB's, so I could be wrong. But when I looked at everone. JL was the guy that caught my eye. I like what I see, and think he can easily make this team as a backup lb/special teamer.

All and all. I'm still shocked we didn't draft a QB. I believe this is our weak spot if a rash of injuries should happen. I'm still hoping Josh Portis can step up and be a viable backup QB, but I don't know. I'm even less optimistic of the other guys.

Hawkfin · May 1, 2013

O.K. So here's another fans .02 on these guys.

Christine Michael rb - I was very vocal about hateing him. Still do. I predict he won't even b e on this team in 2 years. Absolutely horrible pick imo.

Jordan Hill dt - I think this was a great pick. I know Philly wasn't too impressed. But I feel real good on my chances of proving him wrong with this kid.

Chris Harper wr - The measurables and potential i think is there. I said earlier, I thought he'd have to be eased in for a season, and as our 5th reciever. We do have the ability to do that with him. This is more of a wait and see pick for me. Unfortunitly knowing we passed on guys who were still available that I valued alot higher is what hurts here. It is what it is here, we'll see what happens.

Jesse Williams dt - Great pick. We all love this kid, nuff said.

Tharold Simon db - This pick seems boom or bust to me. We all knew at some point they'd grab another kid for the secondary. This is who they wanted, he seems to fit what they want. Another wait and see for me.

Luke Wilson te - I have know f'n clue on this kid. I think the pick just sucks.

Spencer Ware rb - Love the pick with him moving to FB. In the fantasy world (the other thing we do around here) he was a sleeper type kid for alot of peop[le in the internet world. To me, I thought he was a Marion Barber type guy. I thought he could take a beating, but wasn't sure how long his shelf life could be as the main guy (alot like Barber also in this sence) Then finding out he was moving to FB, and was gonna take a pounding for someone else (in our case a stud rb) I love the pick. The kid played Baseball and Basketball also. And LSU uses about 10 rb's a season so I think he gets a raw deal from people whole look for just game film on him.

Ryan Seymore g - Truth be told. I didn't know who this was. Luckily, I am a huge fan of Zac Stacy. He was/is my #2 rb from this draft. I still had all my videos of him saved, so I had alot to work with when looking for Seymore. To me this is an excellent pick. I'm very excited about this kid and think we stole someone here. He reminds me very much of Chris Gray.

Ty Powell de - I got nothing here either. Like Wilson, to me its a wasted pick.

Jared Smith g - The kid is being switched from dt to guard. So there's nothing here to even see. Seems like this years J.R. Sweezy to me. But from all accounts, Cable really likes him. And as a great o-line coach plus our assistant head coach, if he likes him, I'm all aboard too. Hell at this point it's the 7th round. It is what it is.

Michael Bowie t - This seems like another boom or bust pick. Not alot I could find of him because of his issues. What I saw I liked. Still don't know why he couldn't play? I suppose we'll see what happens here. Again 7th round, Tom Cable project. It is what it is.

* We also signed several udfa's.

Not too much caught my eye.

I think Alvin Bailey t - Might be a decent pick. Another Cable guy. Between the couple late draft picks, plus this kid. I think someone

will be worthwhile.

John Lotulelei lb - This might be the kid I think Hawkfan or someone else mentioned earlier? We did bring in other LB's, so I could be wrong. But when I looked at everone. JL was the guy that caught my eye. I like what I see, and think he can easily make this team as a backup lb/special teamer.

All and all. I'm still shocked we didn't draft a QB. I believe this is our weak spot if a rash of injuries should happen. I'm still hoping Josh Portis can step up and be a viable backup QB, but I don't know. I'm even less optimistic of the other guys.

Nice write up.... SO what's your thought behind why C. Michael will suck? And not be with this team?

I don't see this at all. I like this kid. I wouldn't have taken him this early, and I don't see the point of the pick with Turbin, but I think he's real explosive player. I think his cuts are amazing and he's got a lot of power. He also tested real well all over the combine.

My negatives are that he hasn't handled a work load, been hurt, and primarily runs out of a draw play.

But, I'm not sure those negatives make him a bad pick. I think he'll easily be on this team in 2 years, and more explosive then Turbin. He has low miles. That's probably the thought behind this pick. He's our future, plain and simple. He might not see a real shot for 3 years.

Also, John Lotulelei/LB is the guy I was talking about. He looks real good, and might be a nice sleeper. This made be feel better about why we passed on LB's so often.

I agree about Ryan Seymore completely. I think he's REAL GOOD. He is solid in both run and pass. I think he'll end up starting for us!

I still love our Corner. I don't think there is any kind of "bust" about him. Either Boom or just real solid and easily as good as Browner. I bet he pushes him out sooner then later.

e-factor · May 1, 2013

I was looking into this one this year though actually. Funny you bring it up.

Let me know if you end up playing. I played it for the first time last year (did 3 years in WCOFF before it went bad) and it was a very well run event. Would be interesting to compare teams after the draft and see how the leagues differ on where players were taken.

Good move to Ceasars Palace this year. IMO, best place to watch the games on Sunday, especially if you lock up a table with waitress service. I got there at 6:30 AM last year and got the last table available. I would have been pretty pissed if I had missed out.

DrG · May 1, 2013

Sundays a m week one in Vegas is tuff to beat

e-factor · May 1, 2013

Sundays a m week one in Vegas is tuff to beat

It was a blast for sure. First thing I did when I got home was have a 2nd flat screen mounted so I could have at least two games going at the same time on Sunday. Not Ceasars Palace, but a step in the right direction.............. :pointstosky:

Hawkfin · May 1, 2013

Let me know if you end up playing. I played it for the first time last year (did 3 years in WCOFF before it went bad) and it was a very well run event. Would be interesting to compare teams after the draft and see how the leagues differ on where players were taken.

Good move to Ceasars Palace this year. IMO, best place to watch the games on Sunday, especially if you lock up a table with waitress service. I got there at 6:30 AM last year and got the last table available. I would have been pretty pissed if I had missed out.

Cool man,

We'll do... I'm still looking over all my options. But, I'll let you know if I do this one.

FlaHawker · May 4, 2013

I wouldn't have taken him this early, and I don't see the point of the pick with Turbin, but I think he's real explosive player.

Here is nice anlaysis about the rationale behind the Michael pick. makes perfect sense to me.

Schneider's schooling

"You can't go through drafts and pass on talents like Christine Michael. When you start doing that, in my opinion, is when you start making a lot of mistakes." - John Schneider

In 2004 John Schneider was Ted Thompson's personnel analyst for the Green Bay Packers. The Packers were coming off a 10-6 season in which Ahman Green, a 26-year old RB, rushed for 1,883 yards on 5.3 ypc - both career highs. Sound familiar? Marshawn Lynch, the Seahawks' 26-year old RB, rushed for 1,590 yards on 5.0 ypc last season - both career highs as well.

Going into the 2004 season, the Packers had no reason to expect a drop in production from Green. He was only 27 years old and in the prime of his career. However, Green did experience a drop in production that season. He rushed for only 1,163 yards on 4.5 ypc. Respectable numbers but far from his 1,883 rushing yards and 5.3 ypc the previous year and despite a drop in production from Green, the Packers still finished the season at 10-6.

The 2005 draft rolled around and the Packers did not view the RB position as a priority. With 1,163 rushing yards on 4.5 ypc, Green was still producing at a high level and was only going to be 28-years old for the upcoming season. Not viewing RB as a priority, the Packers decided to draft WR Terrence Murphy with the 58th pick over Frank Gore - who was later drafted by the 49ers with the 65th pick. After being diagnosed with spinal stenosis, Murphy was released by the Packers after his rookie year. Gore went on to be a multiple Pro Bowl RB with the 49ers. You can't go through drafts and pass on talents like Michael. When you start doing that... is when you start making a lot of mistakes.

In the Packers' 2005 season, a 28 year old Green got hurt five games in. His production in those five games was pedestrian at best - he rushed for 255 yards on 3.3 ypc. Not being prepared for an injury to their lead RB was one reason the Packers ended up going 4-12 that year.

The 2006 draft came around and the Packers, banking that Green could return to pre-injury form, still did not see the RB position as a priority. They decided to draft OG Daryn Colledge with the 47th pick over Maurice Jones-Drew - who was later drafted with the 60th pick by the Jaguars. Colledge became an immediate starter in the NFL and is currently on the Cardinals entering his 8th year in the league. Jones-Drew went on to become a multiple Pro Bowl RB for the Jaguars. Colledge has had a solid career but it certainly hasn't been Jones-Drewish. You can't go through drafts and pass on talents like Michael. When you start doing that... is when you start making a lot of mistakes.

In the Packers' 2006 season, a post-injury Ahman Green was a shell of his old self and only rushed for 1,059 yards on 4 ypc. The Packers went 8-8. This was Green's final year with the Packers.

In the 2007 draft the Packers finally viewed the RB position as a priority. Green's tenure with the Packers was over and they needed to find a replacement for him. They had the 16th overall pick and were hoping that Marshawn Lynch would fall to them. Instead, the Bills drafted Lynch with the 12th pick and the Packers never got the chance to draft him. Unfortunately for the Packers, the talent in the 2007 RB class fell off significantly after Adrian Peterson and Marshawn Lynch. Having not yet filled the void left by Green in the 1st round, the Packers took Brandon Jackson in the 2nd. Jackson may not have been rated as highly as the Packers rated Gore or Jones-Drew in the past, but because they had a need at the position they were forced to take a RB in round 2. Jackson never became an impactful RB for the Packers and is now a backup RB for the Browns. You can't go through drafts and pass on talents like Michael. When you start doing that... is when you start making a lot of mistakes.

In the Packers' 2007 season their lead RB was former UDFA Ryan Grant, not 2nd round pick Jackson. Grant rushed for 956 yards on 5.1 ypc for a pass heavy Packers team. The Packers went 13-3 in Brett Favre's final year with the team.

Entering the 2008 draft the Packers had a 956 yard rusher in Grant and a former 2nd round pick in Jackson. Again not placing priority on the RB position, the Packers selected QB Brian Brohm with the 56th pick and DB Patrick Lee with the 60th over Jamaal Charles - who was drafted later by the Chiefs with the 73rd pick.

Brohm didn't even make the Packers' 53 man roster and was out of the NFL after the 2010 season, Lee has never started a game in the NFL, and Charles went on to become a Pro Bowl RB for the Chiefs. You can't go through drafts and pass on talents like Michael. When you start doing that... is when you start making a lot of mistakes.

Only people who were involved in the Packers' draft process or people Schneider may have confessed to later in life know how he felt about Gore, Jones-Drew and Charles as NFL prospects. Schneider could look at these guys with regret now and think "they should be in a Packers' jersey", or he could look at them like all the GMs on QB needy teams now look at Russell Wilson and think "man I sure missed the evaluation on that one."

He may have also been pounding the table to pick one of the guys, but Thompson had disagreed. Whatever the case is, Schneider now views that talent trumps need at the RB position and has the power to pick his players. Because of his experience with Green during his Packers' tenure, he knows that Lynch's skills could start diminishing as early as this upcoming season, and the addition of Christine Michael allows the Seahawks to hedge against a that possible dip in production. As Lynch gets older he will likely become less effective as a runner. When this starts happening, Michael may be able to transition immediately to the lead RB role without the Seahawks having to suffer through a post-Alexander to pre-Lynch type of period again. RBs have the reputation of being able to be easily replaced. The Packers organization probably feels different about this because Green hasn't played for them for 6 years and they are STILL looking for a RB (they drafted two this year). Schneider is certainly looking to avoid this predicament in Seattle.

Furthermore, Green ran the ball 355 times during his great 2003 season. In hindsight, it is no surprise that Green began to lose effectiveness in the following seasons. The Seahawks love to run the ball but they do not want Lynch to run it 315 times this upcoming season like he did last year. The addition of Michael allows the Seahawks' to maintain their run first offense while not depending on Lynch to do all of the work. The Seahawks will be looking to prolong Lynch's effectiveness and thus his career by cutting down his workload while not losing any productivity on offense. The addition of Michael allows them to do this.

Perhaps the greatest thing that Michael's addition provides is some insurance to the 2nd-worst-case-scenario the offense could face after a Russell Wilson injury: an injury to Lynch. Green got hurt and the Packers' went 4-12 despite still having Brett Favre. If Lynch got hurt next year, could it hurt the offense so badly that the Seahawks could fall to 5-11 from 11-5 just like the Packers fell to 4-12 from 10-6 the previous year? Schneider is certainly looking to avoid this predicament as well.

The way the Packers mishandled the RB position during the Ahman Green era could be why Schneider felt that a RB with the talent of Michael was too good to pass up despite already having Lynch and Turbin on the roster. Couple this with Carroll's affinity for multiple RBs and it makes sense why the Seahawks selected Michael in the 2nd round. Does Schneider fantasize about what could have been with Gore, Jones-Drew or Charles? Maybe. He certainly wasn't going to risk regretting not drafting Michael.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/seahawks-analysis/2013/5/3/4296104/john-schneiders-seahawks-nfl-marshawn-lynch-christine-michael

Hawkfin · May 5, 2013

Here is nice anlaysis about the rationale behind the Michael pick. makes perfect sense to me.

I agree with all this, I just thought maybe Turbin was a pick made to where they couldn't pass on him. I thought maybe he was our future and to good to pass up at the time. I have high hopes for him.

I guess I could see C. Michael has a better prospect and explosive then Turbin, but I'm personally not sure he's a "can't miss talent".

He runs slower then Turbin. He's been hurt more then Turbin. He has not carried a work load and pounded it for more then 150 carries in a season. He also ALWAYS ran out of a shotgun draw. Draws are always easier.

I don't mind the pick anymore, because IMO we solved our biggest issue and got lucky Williams was still on the board to double dip at DT.

If I was to say we got: Hill, Williams, C. Michael in that order I would have been shocked and loved it. SO in the end, it all looks good to me. The WR and TE is where my real problem lies!

So all in all - I'm happy. I think C. Michael is a nice player to get in a solid RB crop coming out. I really like a lot of these guy's including our guy. I also could see Lynch slowing down over the next few years, so all good. Heck, maybe we trade Lynch before he runs dry even. Or Turbin for that matter.

FlaHawker · May 5, 2013

I agree with all this, I just thought maybe Turbin was a pick made to where they couldn't pass on him. I thought maybe he was our future and to good to pass up at the time. I have high hopes for him.

I guess I could see C. Michael has a better prospect and explosive then Turbin, but I'm personally not sure he's a "can't miss talent".

He runs slower then Turbin. He's been hurt more then Turbin. He has not carried a work load and pounded it for more then 150 carries in a season. He also ALWAYS ran out of a shotgun draw. Draws are always easier.

I don't mind the pick anymore, because IMO we solved our biggest issue and got lucky Williams was still on the board to double dip at DT.

If I was to say we got: Hill, Williams, C. Michael in that order I would have been shocked and loved it. SO in the end, it all looks good to me. The WR and TE is where my real problem lies!

So all in all - I'm happy. I think C. Michael is a nice player to get in a solid RB crop coming out. I really like a lot of these guy's including our guy. I also could see Lynch slowing down over the next few years, so all good. Heck, maybe we trade Lynch before he runs dry even. Or Turbin for that matter.

And what if Lynch gets suspended for last year's DUI?

phillybear · May 5, 2013

I haven't had a chance to browse this site for a week, but I've had time to sort out my thoughts on the draft.

Not much consideration was given to add polished, talented NCAA players. Instead, overwhelmingly, the thought process was to add players with certain measurables, an emphasis on combine numbers and wingspan and jumping and other stuff. So, clearly, the draft is a muddled mish mash. I know that I will have a hard time envisioning much from this group overall, but a few guys could emerge years and years down the line. So, there's that I guess. I realize that few of these guys were expected to make the team. Unfortunately, it's a contradiction to bring in a bunch of raw, unpolished athletes that will have to compete for spots that are not open or have to switch to positions they've never played before. Very unpredictable.

I don't consider Percy Harvin our #1 pick, since the trade happened in a vacuum way outside the madness, but there is no denying that Harvin is waaaaaaay more valuable that any two players available at #25.

I've warming up a little to Girl's Name. I understand that when you want a ground and pound team, you need bodies. Lynch isn't going to last forever, and the day may come when he gets suspended for trying to break a tackle, under all the new stupid NFL rules. Of course, it would be frighteningly stupid to draft a player for a potential 4 day suspension for Lynch. Still, if the durable Lynch gets less carries, that's fine. It's just that Turbin will pick up those carries. It hard to envision a guy that gets a reduced role in an explosive Kevin Sumlin offense and fights with his coaches is not considered a head case. He has skills, but his lack of maturity will keep him firmly tied down to the bench.

Sure, if you flip flop Jordan Hill and Jesse Williams for their draft spots, the draft might not look so ugly. But that's not the case, and if we picked up a quality player in the 3rd along with J Williams in the 5th, the draft looks that much better. There are times the Carroll/Schneider partnership craves looking smarter than everybody else. They've done plenty right. But there is this draft philosophy of picking guys that were doing well last year, then dropped off this year. Then you draft a player that fell thinking you are getting more value due to their perceived lower value. Jordan Hill played out of position last year. I like in Penn St country. I was not impressed. He could be a nice situational player, but not an important player. He might get more plays if we play more 4-2-5 because then his liability against the run won't be easily exploited. There were better options available. Hill wasn't going until the 5th round. Drafted one year after being good.

Chris Harper or Quinton Patten. That's really what we will be left wondering for many years to come. No chance this guy makes the team unless he plays great on special teams. He doesn't do anything exceptionally well, somewhat physical, decent YAC, and plays to the outside. I guess it's insurance if Rice and Tate both get hurt for the season. And it's likely we could have found a similar WR as an undrafted free agent. Better options were available. I'm really not sure what make him catch the eye of the scouts.

Jesse Williams. Everybody loves the pick, as do I. Has a realistic chance to be the best players selected in this draft class. His injury questions dropped him out of a potential first round grade. Drafted one year after being good.

Tharold Simon. Decent enough talent, could develop into a Seattle type of defensive back. Has major maturity issues. If we are going 4-2-5, I have no issue with adding another corner. If the locker room gets this kid in line, he might turn out to be a solid pick.

Luke Wilson. He's fast. That's all he brings to the table. His only measurable. He's fast. Well, you can't coach fast. But if the only thing you bring is fast, then you get a one trick pony draft day flopperoo like Bruce Irvin who is learning how to play LB this off season, because he can't play DE at the NFL level. So, Wilson is fast. Why do you need to take him with a 5th rounder? Well, Anthony McCoy has been partying the past week since his #2 TE slot is cemented. Fantastic bet to not make the final active roster. What's that? A convenient turf toe IR at the end of preseason?

Spencer Ware. Here's an idea. You want to possibly get rid of one of the leaders on this team, a Pro Bowl caliber player in Michael Robinson at FB. Maybe to save money. And you want to draft a FB to challenge for that spot, knowing that you cannot possibly carry two FB on your roster going into the season. So, you want to take a FB to win the job this year. And you end up drafting a life long RB to switch to a brand new position to challenge your Pro Bowl FB for a position. I can't put into words how stupid this thought process was. Either you take a young talented FB, or scoop up a project as an UDFA. Just dumb. Maybe the kid can play. He failed down the stretch in school, which made the front office like him more. But, just dumb. No chance to make the team. Drafted one season after being good. Practice squad?

Ryan Seymour. I would have like earlier help on the Offensive line, but at least they got some bodies. Seymour is nothing special, but plays T, G, and C, so versatility is his best trait. Depth.

Ty Powell. He was rated much higher, but trended downward late. Might have gone in the 5th a few weeks ago. Not bad for depth/special teams. Another tweener OLB/DE, like Irvin, Harvin.

Jared Smith. Going to try to learn a brand new position this year, trying to do the Sweezey transformation. Eh, he'll be competing with the UDFA for a spot I guess. Won't make the team.

Michael Bowie. I think Russell Okung put in a word for him, as he knew him as they recruited him for Oklahoma St. I guess he vouched. He was pretty good at Okl St until last year when he got kicked off the team. So, again, Seattle drafting a player one year removed from being good.

After promising everybody that a QB will be drafted every year, we get a dozen picks and draft zero QBs. The weakest part of this team by far is a lack of a back up QB that doesn't suck a d!ck.

After further review, I still give the draft a C-. It's the same old story.

Questionable picks early (Girl Name, Hill, Harper),

Seemingly solid middle picks (Williams, Simon)

Terrible late (Wilson, Ware)

Whatever(Seymour, Powell, Smith, Bowie)

We had the 4th best draft of all the teams in the NFC West. That's got me worried.

***The Official Seattle Seahawks 2013 Offseason Thread***

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The Official Seattle Seahawks 2013 Offseason Thread