Situation in Ferguson, MO

[TimmySmith 2,782]

IF the scenario was exactly as you stated, the officer damn sure would have committed a crime. You can't justify shooting a perp who is 30 ft away from you and not posing an imminent threat simply because he assaulted you beforehand. Shooting him while he pounds on you or if he goes for your weapon = self-defense. Shooting him 6 times after he has disengaged and walked well out of reach of you (while unarmed) is closer to payback.

By all accounts I have seen there was no shooting while Brown stopped and turned. In other words, it is possible the officer had disengaged. Whatever happened after Brown had turned around is what spurred the fatal shooting. Some accounts have Brown moving toward the officer.

[Sho Nuff 719]

By all accounts I have seen there was no shooting while Brown stopped and turned. In other words, it is possible the officer had disengaged. Whatever happened after Brown had turned around is what spurred the fatal shooting. Some accounts have Brown moving toward the officer.

But, but your own description...you claimed he shot before he turned around.

How can you justify those shots. The fact that they were not fatal is not as relevant (more of a bad shot...or dumb enough to fire supposed warning shots).

It was escalated to deadly violence by the officer if what you described is how it actually went down.

[ZeroTolerance 582]

By all accounts I have seen there was no shooting while Brown stopped and turned. In other words, it is possible the officer had disengaged. Whatever happened after Brown had turned around is what spurred the fatal shooting. Some accounts have Brown moving toward the officer.

At this point, Brown coming at the officer is about the only scenario that could make it a justified killing. It's also the hardest to prove.

[drobeski 3,061]

But, but your own description...you claimed he shot before he turned around.

How can you justify those shots. The fact that they were not fatal is not as relevant (more of a bad shot...or dumb enough to fire supposed warning shots).

It was escalated to deadly violence by the officer if what you described is how it actually went down.

the shots were from the front....so there goes that scenerio

[Artista 460]

 

I agree with the first part.

Surrendering part is not proven yet for sure...yelling don't shoot means what?

Ive been saying the cop had control of the situation...but, if the kid already had assaulted him in the car as it has been said (and probably happened)...then got away but came back towards the officer and he told him to stop with his gun raised? Saying don't shoot while still advancing (if that is what was happening) means absolutely nothing.

Which is why I've been saying I reserve judgement until all facts are released. Based on what's been released so far, it sounds like over kill since the shots were not from what's considered close range. I'm not sure it will ever come out exactly what happened, like the struggle in the car. Seems that part is he said he said since the cop says one thing and the witnesses say another. Too bad no videos are out there. Majority of cops are good one, but there are bad seeds just like majority of the protesters are good and follow the rules but there are a few bad seeds there too. Sad all around for all.

[Sho Nuff 719]

the shots were from the front....so there goes that scenerio

 

 

By most accounts the shooting started when Brown was moving away from the officer. Brown may or may not have been hit with these (some witnesses claim he was). Brown stopped, turned and said something to the officer (taunted is a word that has been used). Then the fatal shots came. No one (that I have heard) has stated that Brown was giving himself up, just that he had his arms out (proven by the autopsy). Since the officer had started shooting prior to the turn, it seems logical that he was intent on shooting Brown down to the ground.

 

 

Now the story is that the family's autopsy shows some of the entrance wounds came from behind. Guess the feds will be needed after all to provide the tie-breaker.

 

 

Not my scenario...it was Timmy's which states first shots fired while he was moving away from the officer.

And the family autopsy showing at least one shot entered from behind seems to contradict what you are saying.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Which is why I've been saying I reserve judgement until all facts are released. Based on what's been released so far, it sounds like over kill since the shots were not from what's considered close range. I'm not sure it will ever come out exactly what happened, like the struggle in the car. Seems that part is he said he said since the cop says one thing and the witnesses say another. Too bad no videos are out there. Majority of cops are good one, but there are bad seeds just like majority of the protesters are good and follow the rules but there are a few bad seeds there too. Sad all around for all.

 

Id believe the cop's side on the altercation in the car being started by Brown.

Just don't ever see a cop pulling anyone into a closer quarter situation like a car to "fight"...does not excuse what happens later by most accounts IMO.

[Artista 460]

 

Id believe the cop's side on the altercation in the car being started by Brown.

Just don't ever see a cop pulling anyone into a closer quarter situation like a car to "fight"...does not excuse what happens later by most accounts IMO.

They are so ever slowly letting out info on the facts of this case that it's no wonder protesters are even more pissed. Have to wonder though if this was a white college student instead of a black man if this wouldn't be moving faster. dunno

[RLLD 3,455]

They are so ever slowly letting out info on the facts of this case that it's no wonder protesters are even more pissed. Have to wonder though if this was a white college student instead of a black man if this wouldn't be moving faster. dunno

If it were a white college student we would likely not know about it, nor be talking about it. The black community needs this kind of event to justify their inane belief that whitey is working against them.

[Artista 460]

At this point, Brown coming at the officer is about the only scenario that could make it a justified killing. It's also the hardest to prove.

I don't see how this case can be proved in the end and it will go down as no charge or if they charge, no conviction. I think perhaps they know this and are preparing from now how the hell they are going control the masses. The George Z verdict was tame compared to what this will be.

[RLLD 3,455]

I don't see how this case can be proved in the end and it will go down as no charge or if they charge, no conviction. I think perhaps they know this and are preparing from now how the hell they are going control the masses. The George Z verdict was tame compared to what this will be.

 

That does seem valid. You make a good point here.

[Artista 460]

If it were a white college student we would likely not know about it, nor be talking about it. The black community needs this kind of event to justify their inane belief that whitey is working against them.

This may be true, but you have to admit that there are plenty of racist folks out there including in the police dept. There is no history of whites being persecuted so no reason for whitey to feel possibly persecuted.

[RLLD 3,455]

This may be true, but you have to admit that there are plenty of racist folks out there including in the police dept. There is no history of whites being persecuted so no reason for whitey to feel possibly persecuted.

 

Persecution is not the exclusive domain of the African American, no matter how hard they try to sell this notion. There is an abundance of groups who have faced persecution over the centuries, white Europeans included.

 

And certainly there is racism, all over the world, and notably within the African American community, and to a certain extent I understand; I disagree with it, I think its shameful, but I understand.

 

Reacting to racism with racism requires a level of cognitive dissonance I could never understand, but that seems to be the norm. I think the avoidance of culpability is a big issue within the African American community and I think its a limiting factor in the growth of this segment of society. They do themselves an injustice by trying to wiggle out of taking responsibility. This case, not unlike the Trayvon Martin case, is another example of this.

 

Instead of assailing only the cop we should be able to talk earnestly about both participants This is what is called the teachable moment. Teach your kids how to behave, train cops how to behave.

[Googballz 39]

Here is my .02 on this situation.

 

There isn't enough info to nail down exactly what happened, so you have to go with what we know.

 

On the one hand you have a person trained to deal with these situations.

On the other you have a thug on drugs in the middle of a crime outing.

 

I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the former at this point.

[Artista 460]

Here is my .02 on this situation.

 

There isn't enough info to nail down exactly what happened, so you have to go with what we know.

 

On the one hand you have a person trained to deal with these situations.

On the other you have a thug on drugs in the middle of a crime outing.

 

I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the former at this point.

Thug on drugs? I haven't heard he was on drugs, have you?

[Googballz 39]

Thug on drugs? I haven't heard he was on drugs, have you?

Yes.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Thug on drugs? I haven't heard he was on drugs, have you?

 

His .02 has already been heard about 30+ times in this thread.

[drobeski 3,061]

Thug on drugs? I haven't heard he was on drugs, have you?

change the channel and your web news source, you may learn something

[RLLD 3,455]

Yes.

 

If thats true then you just get accused of character assassination, these people know this game and how to play it very well. No fact that supports anything other than whitey killin the blacks is allowed.

[drobeski 3,061]

And if this is true ?

 

 

 

http://www.wcvb.com/national/autopsy-michael-brown-shot-at-least-6-times/27577754#!bFNMPi

 

FERGUSON, Missouri (CNN) —The Ferguson, Missouri, police officer who killed Michael Brown says the teenager rushed at him full speed in the moments before the shooting, according to an account phoned in to a St. Louis radio station and confirmed as accurate by a source with detailed knowledge of the investigation.

According to the account on KTFK, phoned in by a woman who identified herself as "Josie," the altercation began after Officer Darren Wilson rolled down his window to tell Brown and a friend to stop walking in the street.

When Wilson tried to get out of his cruiser, Brown first tried to push the officer back into the car, then punched him in the face and grabbed for his gun before breaking free after the gun went off once, the caller said.

Wilson pursued Brown and his friend, ordering them to freeze, according to the account. When they turned around, Brown began taunting Wilson, saying he would not arrest them, then ran at the officer at full speed, the caller said.

Wilson then began shooting. The final shot was to Brown's forehead, and the teenager fell two or three feet in front of Wilson, the caller said.

A source with detailed knowledge of the investigation later told CNN the caller's account is "accurate," in that it matches what Wilson has told investigators.

If true, the account represents the first telling of events from the perspective of Wilson, whose shooting of Brown has touched off nightly protests and violence in the suburban St. Louis city.

Earlier Monday, an autopsy conducted for the family of Brown found no evidence that he struggled with Wilson before his death, according to the pathologist in charge of the examination.

Dr. Michael Baden said no signs of a struggle were revealed in his autopsy of Brown's body, conducted after an official examination by the St. Louis County medical examiner's office.

Read more: http://www.wcvb.com/national/autopsy-michael-brown-shot-at-least-6-times/27577754#ixzz3AmGvAwQI

[Sho Nuff 719]

If its true...still a big if...looks better for the officer.

If it is true that he shot first (as other accounts mentioned in this thread have stated) prior to the kid turning around...then not so much.

[drobeski 3,061]

If its true...still a big if...looks better for the officer.

If it is true that he shot first (as other accounts mentioned in this thread have stated) prior to the kid turning around...then not so much.

never mind the officer, hows it look for the kid and the ass holes tearing apart a city....from holder on down.

[IGotWorms 3,339]

By most accounts the shooting started when Brown was moving away from the officer. Brown may or may not have been hit with these (some witnesses claim he was). Brown stopped, turned and said something to the officer (taunted is a word that has been used). Then the fatal shots came. No one (that I have heard) has stated that Brown was giving himself up, just that he had his arms out (proven by the autopsy). Since the officer had started shooting prior to the turn, it seems logical that he was intent on shooting Brown down to the ground.

Well if that's true I think the officer should be brought up on charges. Do you disagree, assuming the scenario you laid out above?

 

On edit: didn't see your responses to others before posting. Wow, I'm genuinely amazed that you don't think this would constitute a crime if it occurred as you described

[RLLD 3,455]

If its true...still a big if...looks better for the officer.

If it is true that he shot first (as other accounts mentioned in this thread have stated) prior to the kid turning around...then not so much.

 

It just doesn't make sense though....he tried to punch an officer in the cruiser? Then tried to take his gun? And ran....but then stopped to taunt the cop after the cop regains control of his weapon, then runs at him at "full steam". C'mon, that sounds far fetched....

[drobeski 3,061]

 

It just doesn't make sense though....he tried to punch an officer in the cruiser? Then tried to take his gun? And ran....but then stopped to taunt the cop after the cop regains control of his weapon, then runs at him at "full steam". C'mon, that sounds far fetched....

why ? sounds like thuggish behavior to me

[Sho Nuff 719]

never mind the officer, hows it look for the kid and the ass holes tearing apart a city....from holder on down.

 

The kid is dead. So, no information will really help him.

 

id be more worried about the officer at this point

[Sho Nuff 719]

 

It just doesn't make sense though....he tried to punch an officer in the cruiser? Then tried to take his gun? And ran....but then stopped to taunt the cop after the cop regains control of his weapon, then runs at him at "full steam". C'mon, that sounds far fetched....

 

Of course it sounds far fetched that after fleeing and the cop having control and probably gun drawn and the kid then running at him.

But that is the story people like drobs want to believe.

That, in no way, could the officer have been wrong in this.

Its all the "drugged up criminal thug".

[RLLD 3,455]

why ? sounds like thuggish behavior to me

 

Its like a cartoon version of thug behavior though, a bit over the top on the part of the cop. I no more expect the cop to hionestly state what happened than the <ahem> "witnesses" at the scene....but this is over the top.

[IGotWorms 3,339]

Here is my .02 on this situation

Nobody gives a flying motherfock what you think

 

HTH

[IGotWorms 3,339]

 

It just doesn't make sense though....he tried to punch an officer in the cruiser? Then tried to take his gun? And ran....but then stopped to taunt the cop after the cop regains control of his weapon, then runs at him at "full steam". C'mon, that sounds far fetched....

If he WAS on drugs, say PCP or the like, this could make sense in a way. Would also explain the bizzaro robbery with no attempt to conceal his identity or anything

[RLLD 3,455]

If he WAS on drugs, say PCP or the like, this could make sense in a way. Would also explain the bizzaro robbery with no attempt to conceal his identity or anything

 

OK, I see your point, that would explain such bizarre behavior.....but if the kid comes back clean, I call BS on the cop's version of events....

[Artista 460]

What has been said about the kid being left in the street for 4-5 hours? The cop didn't call it in??

[IGotWorms 3,339]

 

OK, I see your point, that would explain such bizarre behavior.....but if the kid comes back clean, I call BS on the cop's version of events....

Agreed. The toxicology report will tell a lot.

[IGotWorms 3,339]

What has been said about the kid being left in the street for 4-5 hours? The cop didn't call it in??

They didn't want a good evidentiary scene. Take from that what you will

[drobeski 3,061]

Sounds like the kid charged the cop after assaulting him. Kid figured he could punch little skinny whitey in the face and get away with it. When the cop exited the cruiser to attempt to arrest the criminal who had just assaulted him , the kid decided he wasn't going to get arrested by this cop and charged him.

In self defense the cop unloaded his weapon.

 

 

If foresnics prove the cop assassinated the kid, he should get the death penalty.

If it doesn't the race baiters should all be charged with inciting violence and hate crimes.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,933]

 

The kid is dead. So, no information will really help him.

 

id be more worried about the officer at this point

 

 

Why worry about him? The media isn't.

[ZeroTolerance 582]

And if this is true ?

 

 

 

http://www.wcvb.com/national/autopsy-michael-brown-shot-at-least-6-times/27577754#!bFNMPi

 

FERGUSON, Missouri (CNN) —The Ferguson, Missouri, police officer who killed Michael Brown says the teenager rushed at him full speed in the moments before the shooting, according to an account phoned in to a St. Louis radio station and confirmed as accurate by a source with detailed knowledge of the investigation.

According to the account on KTFK, phoned in by a woman who identified herself as "Josie," the altercation began after Officer Darren Wilson rolled down his window to tell Brown and a friend to stop walking in the street.

When Wilson tried to get out of his cruiser, Brown first tried to push the officer back into the car, then punched him in the face and grabbed for his gun before breaking free after the gun went off once, the caller said.

Wilson pursued Brown and his friend, ordering them to freeze, according to the account. When they turned around, Brown began taunting Wilson, saying he would not arrest them, then ran at the officer at full speed, the caller said.

Wilson then began shooting. The final shot was to Brown's forehead, and the teenager fell two or three feet in front of Wilson, the caller said.

A source with detailed knowledge of the investigation later told CNN the caller's account is "accurate," in that it matches what Wilson has told investigators.

If true, the account represents the first telling of events from the perspective of Wilson, whose shooting of Brown has touched off nightly protests and violence in the suburban St. Louis city.

Earlier Monday, an autopsy conducted for the family of Brown found no evidence that he struggled with Wilson before his death, according to the pathologist in charge of the examination.

Dr. Michael Baden said no signs of a struggle were revealed in his autopsy of Brown's body, conducted after an official examination by the St. Louis County medical examiner's office.

Read more: http://www.wcvb.com/national/autopsy-michael-brown-shot-at-least-6-times/27577754#ixzz3AmGvAwQI

 

Okay, so we know the officer's story now.

[drobeski 3,061]

Well with any luck, there is dash cam footage either exonerating or convicting the officer. Because unless it's there it's all he said she said.

Also foresnics should be able to determine how far away the officer was when the shots were fired.

 

I've watched dexter, i know stuff.

[ZeroTolerance 582]

Well with any luck, there is dash cam footage either exonerating or convicting the officer. Because unless it's there it's all he said she said.

Also foresnics should be able to determine how far away the officer was when the shots were fired.

 

I've watched dexter, i know stuff.

 

No dashcam. The town apparently is too poor to install one in every cruiser.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Well with any luck, there is dash cam footage either exonerating or convicting the officer. Because unless it's there it's all he said she said.

Also foresnics should be able to determine how far away the officer was when the shots were fired.

 

I've watched dexter, i know stuff.

 

Nothing back on the clothing...but so far there was no gun powder residue on Brown's skin.