White Liberals and the New Racism

[RLLD 3,505]

Up to the point of when Martin allegedly initiated a physical altercation, yes.

 

You're a real piece of work. I've known that for years as has everyone at the Geek Club, but sometimes you really drive the point home in remarkable ways

 

I suspect you meant to say up to the time where physical evidence validated the testimony of Zimmerman who stated he was assaulted.

 

I am a piece of work, you are right and i do not suggest that i am not a bastard, but do believe in three very imporant things 1) you own your own destiny and you control outcomes in almost every case, you may not get your preferred outcome, but each of us has far more control than we typically realize. 2) Bad decisions will cripple you, making good decisions leads to good outcomes, bad decisions lead to bad outcomes. 3) learn from missed opportunities and bad decisions, dont push off negative outcomes on others, always seek to find that opportunity to assert control where you can avoid negative outcomes.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

Up to the point of when Martin allegedly initiated a physical altercation, yes.

 

You're a real piece of work. I've known that for years as has everyone at the Geek Club, but sometimes you really drive the point home in remarkable ways

 

You of all people should be talking.

[IGotWorms 3,387]

 

I suspect you meant to say up to the time where physical evidence validated the testimony of Zimmerman who stated he was assaulted.

 

I am a piece of work, you are right and i do not suggest that i am not a bastard, but do believe in three very imporant things 1) you own your own destiny and you control outcomes in almost every case, you may not get your preferred outcome, but each of us has far more control than we typically realize. 2) Bad decisions will cripple you, making good decisions leads to good outcomes, bad decisions lead to bad outcomes. 3) learn from missed opportunities and bad decisions, dont push off negative outcomes on others, always seek to find that opportunity to assert control where you can avoid negative outcomes.

I agree with all of that. But to blame the victim over the guy stalking him is just nuts (again, in a situation where the victim does not assault anyone).

[MDC 5,934]

It all went south when Martin decided to stop, confront his stalker and ask WTF he was being followed. If he'd just run home without ever looking back he would be alive today.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Zimmerman is a punk with a gun who probably never had a real fight in his life. Just like the people who think the cop with Garner used a chokehold. They probably have never been in a real fight either.

 

You keep coming back to Garner and the chokehold...what would you like to call it?

 

Did he have his arms around his neck?

Did the medical examiner rule that death was caused by the use of the hold, the compression on the neck, and position on the chest on the ground in addition to his own health issues?

The focking NYPD called in a chokehold right after the incident.

[Sho Nuff 720]

RLLD has gone full retard.

 

I think both of them have.

[RLLD 3,505]

I agree with all of that. But to blame the victim over the guy stalking him is just nuts (again, in a situation where the victim does not assault anyone).

 

That would indeed be a mitigating circumstance. I think that had Zimmerman approached this kid in any way, or othwerwise put his hands on him then the kid is pure victim here. But I cannot justify the kid assaulting him over being followed, to me that seems crazy.

 

If I were walking at night, anywhere, and felt as though I were being followed i would first assume that i was about to be robbed and try to get home if possible, or into a populated area and find a police officer, certainly i would be calling a police officer. No way in hell do I confront some one who could have helpd, or weapons, at night, just no way....

 

I feel that you had two less than intelligent people meeting at the wrong time, but I also feel that it was the response on the part of Martin to the actions of Zimmerman that was the pivotal factor in the resulting outcome. Its funny how bad mistakes can come back to haunt you, i have had some instances that luckily did not result in my death, but could have. Once instance years ago left me with a badly damaged eye, and recently that led to a detached retina, so i am still paying for my own bad decision to not walk away.

 

Maybe you have to go through it, and survive, to learn that the best option is to walk away, and be safe. I have certainly learned that unless i am defending my life or that of my family, i will walk away, and perhaps be labeled a poosay, but i will stay alive....

[MDC 5,934]

Since we have no idea who initiated the physical conflict, there's really no reason to trust the word of the stalky creeper. What's he going to say, "I grabbed hold of this kid by the arm and he whipped my ass"? No, he's going to paint himself in the best possible light to save his ass from jail.

[RLLD 3,505]

Since we have no idea who initiated the physical conflict, there's really no reason to trust the word of the stalky creeper. What's he going to say, "I grabbed hold of this kid by the arm and he whipped my ass"? No, he's going to paint himself in the best possible light to save his ass from jail.

 

We have to proceed with the avaialble evidence, which supports the testimony of Zimmerman, and in no way supports any notion that Zimmerman approached or assaulted Zimmerman.

[Magnificent Bastard 190]

 

You keep coming back to Garner and the chokehold...what would you like to call it?

 

Did he have his arms around his neck?

Did the medical examiner rule that death was caused by the use of the hold, the compression on the neck, and position on the chest on the ground in addition to his own health issues?

The focking NYPD called in a chokehold right after the incident.

[MDC 5,934]

 

We have to proceed with the avaialble evidence, which supports the testimony of Zimmerman, and in no way supports any notion that Zimmerman approached or assaulted Zimmerman.

The evidence doesn't support Zimmerman, it just doesn't disprove his story.

 

We know that a middle aged creeper followed a teenager around for nothing, told the police the kid started running and left his car to pursue him before getting his ass kicked.

 

According to Zimmerman, the kid attacked him apropos of nothing and he had to defend himself with lethal force. We have no idea whether Zimmerman tried to grab or otherwise stop Trayvon and that's when it turned physical.

 

All we have to go on is Zimmerman's story and he had an incentive to describe it purely as self defense.

[Magnificent Bastard 190]

It was a take down move, known to me as a rolling headlock. If it was a chokehold, why did he let go before he choked him out? Do you really think the intent of that move was to choke him out or get him on the ground? It's pretty obvious he was trying to get him on the ground to cuff him because he refused to put his behind his back.

[Magnificent Bastard 190]

Chokeholds are applied by standing behind someone and putting pressure on the neck, cutting off air supply until the person passes out. Not exactly what happened in this case.

[Mike Honcho 4,089]

 

That would indeed be a mitigating circumstance. I think that had Zimmerman approached this kid in any way, or othwerwise put his hands on him then the kid is pure victim here. But I cannot justify the kid assaulting him over being followed, to me that seems crazy.

 

If I were walking at night, anywhere, and felt as though I were being followed i would first assume that i was about to be robbed and try to get home if possible, or into a populated area and find a police officer, certainly i would be calling a police officer. No way in hell do I confront some one who could have helpd, or weapons, at night, just no way....

 

I feel that you had two less than intelligent people meeting at the wrong time, but I also feel that it was the response on the part of Martin to the actions of Zimmerman that was the pivotal factor in the resulting outcome. Its funny how bad mistakes can come back to haunt you, i have had some instances that luckily did not result in my death, but could have. Once instance years ago left me with a badly damaged eye, and recently that led to a detached retina, so i am still paying for my own bad decision to not walk away.

 

Maybe you have to go through it, and survive, to learn that the best option is to walk away, and be safe. I have certainly learned that unless i am defending my life or that of my family, i will walk away, and perhaps be labeled a poosay, but i will stay alive....

 

 

 

We have to proceed with the avaialble evidence, which supports the testimony of Zimmerman, and in no way supports any notion that Zimmerman approached or assaulted Zimmerman.

 

The available evidence doesn't support/disprove this either. The evidence supports shows there was a physical altercation and Martin got the upper hand. How it started is not known at all.

[HenryHill9323 65]

I always call 911 and tell them I'm following someone just before I assault him.

[MDC 5,934]

Zimmerman called 911. That's how we know he didn't grab or otherwise try to stop Trayvon after stalking and chasing him.

[HenryHill9323 65]

Trayvon was a black guy who was killed by a non-black. That's how we know Trayvon was innocent.

[RLLD 3,505]

The evidence doesn't support Zimmerman, it just doesn't disprove his story.

 

We know that a middle aged creeper followed a teenager around for nothing, told the police the kid started running and left his car to pursue him before getting his ass kicked.

 

According to Zimmerman, the kid attacked him apropos of nothing and he had to defend himself with lethal force. We have no idea whether Zimmerman tried to grab or otherwise stop Trayvon and that's when it turned physical.

 

All we have to go on is Zimmerman's story and he had an incentive to describe it purely as self defense.

 

Actually we have more.

 

In September 2011, the Twin Lakes residents held an organizational meeting to create a neighborhood watch program. Zimmerman was selected by neighbors as the program's coordinator. Acting in that capacity, and as a membe of the community itself, he appropriately shadowed a person and properly contacted police.

 

Not all of his actions were fully conformant to police prodecures, perhaps if he were a trained police officer we could apply that scale of judgement. Instead he kept eyes on the person who apparently tried to run, as one might expect someone trying to get away after having done something wrong. So in his mind this was behavior congruent with criminal activity, which was a concern for the community...which is why he was selected into the position to do what he was doing.

 

Martin had every right to walk where he wanted, as did Zimmerman for that fact. And appears to have initially taken the right course of action, to get away from the his own perceived threat by running. It is also clear that he returned back toward Zimmerman and based on the witness Jenteal, initiated contact with Zimmerman. The subsequent injuries to both Martin and Zimmerman substantiate the testimony of Zimmerman that Martin was the agressor.

 

Getting your ass kicked is no reason to kill someone, and perhaps Zimmerman actually felt as though his life was in danger, according to the law and the evidence he committed no crime, had Martin survived he would certainly haved been arrested for assault, and justifiably so.

 

Perhaps Martin would have provided an alternative story if he had survived, but all we had was the available evidence, and it supported the testimony of Zimmerman.

 

That being said, Zimmerman was acting in accordance with the rule of law and his position as the watch coordinator that night, Martin had the opportunity to avoid a confrontation, but chose to do so anyway, and evidence clearly shows that he was a physical aggressor as well.

[RLLD 3,505]

 

 

 

The available evidence doesn't support/disprove this either. The evidence supports shows there was a physical altercation and Martin got the upper hand. How it started is not known at all.

 

Except for the testimony of Jenteal, who clearly states that Martin spoke first, and was therefore the initiator of interaction. It is interesting that you note Martin got the upper hand, meaning Zimmerman was in defense of himself, and therefore realistically in fear for his life, you therefore justify his actions by your own words.

[drobeski 3,061]

Trayvon was a black innocent child who was killed by a non-black. That's how we know Trayvon was innocent.

fixed to maintain the false narrative.

[HenryHill9323 65]

None of that matters RLLD. Trayvon's parents released a picture of him when he was 12 and cute as a button, so he was murdered in cold blood.

 

Case closed.

[MDC 5,934]

Trayvon was a black guy who was killed by a non-black. That's how we know Trayvon was innocent.

Funny, you and RLLD keep insisting race doesn't matter and yet you keep bringing race into it.

[Mike Honcho 4,089]

 

Except for the testimony of Jenteal, who clearly states that Martin spoke first, and was therefore the initiator of interaction. It is interesting that you note Martin got the upper hand, meaning Zimmerman was in defense of himself, and therefore realistically in fear for his life, you therefore justify his actions by your own words.

 

I never questioned his actions during the altercation. I questioned the initiation of the situation/conflict.

[IGotWorms 3,387]

 

Actually we have more.

 

In September 2011, the Twin Lakes residents held an organizational meeting to create a neighborhood watch program. Zimmerman was selected by neighbors as the program's coordinator. Acting in that capacity, and as a membe of the community itself, he appropriately shadowed a person and properly contacted police.

 

Not all of his actions were fully conformant to police prodecures, perhaps if he were a trained police officer we could apply that scale of judgement. Instead he kept eyes on the person who apparently tried to run, as one might expect someone trying to get away after having done something wrong. So in his mind this was behavior congruent with criminal activity, which was a concern for the community...which is why he was selected into the position to do what he was doing.

[KSB2424 3,086]

What are y'all even debating? It's over. Zimmerman was found to be innocent of any criminal wrong doing and used self defense. People who looked at ALL the evidence made a decision.

 

A decision that is alot more informed than anyone here, so why not just take it for what it is? Sheesh.

[MDC 5,934]

What are y'all even debating? It's over. Zimmerman was found to be innocent of any criminal wrong doing and used self defense. People who looked at ALL the evidence made a decision.

 

A decision that is alot more informed than anyone here, so why not just take it for what it is? Sheesh.

Nobody is contesting the ruling. We are arguing with RLLD's absurd claim that the evidence supports Zimmerman's version of events and people who disagree are biased / racist / playing the race card. Also his laughable assertion that by saying something to Zimmerman first, Trayvon was the aggressor. And his nonsense claim that we know who out hands on who first.

[drobeski 3,061]

http://m.townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2013/08/13/11-liberal-rules-for-racism-in-america-n1662791/page/full

John Hawkins

 

11 Liberal Rules for Racism in America

Aug. 13, 2013

When America was a racist country, Democrats were primarily the ones engaged in racism. However, now that racism has been largely relegated to the fringes of American society (the KKK, the New Black Panthers, the Nation of Islam, La Raza, MEChA, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, American Nazi Party, etc.), the Democrats are constantly wagging their fingers about it. Of course naturally, given the racist history of the Democrat Party, liberals have managed to rig the rules in order to benefit themselves and hurt their political opponents. That's a pretty neat albeit despicable trick that they've managed to pull off.

1) Liberals aren't held to the same rules as Republicans: When liberals say racist things, it's just excused out of hand as if it's no big deal. If Cheney had said, "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, thats a storybook, man" instead of Joe Biden, you'd read about it every time he criticized Barack Obama. When Christopher Dodd said, I do not think it is an exaggeration at all to say to my friend from West Virginia [sen. Robert C. Byrd, a former Ku Klux Klan recruiter] that he would have been a great senator at any moment. . . . He would have been right during the great conflict of civil war in this nation, it was shrugged off. On the other hand, Trent Lott ended up resigning from the GOP leadership for making very similar comments about Strom Thurmond.

 

2) Minority racism must be ignored:According to Rasmussen polling, "Thirty-seven percent (37%) of American Adults think most black Americans are racist, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Just 15% consider most white Americans racist, while 18% say the same of most Hispanic Americans." This isn't coming out of the ether. Black Americans voted overwhelmingly for Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton because he was black. If George Zimmerman had been black and Trayvon Martin had been Hispanic, most black Americans would have been indifferent to the case or would have supported Zimmerman. This is one of the great ironies of the liberal obsession with racism. While they can turn practically anything into evidence of Republican racism, the most grotesque examples of racism from minorities are just shrugged off.

3) You pay no penalty for falsely accusing people of racism: False accusations of racism can do just as much damage as actual racism. People can be ostracized for it, lose endorsement deals or even lose their jobs over being falsely accused of racism. Yet, the only reason you've heard of people like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Touré, and Melissa Harris-Perry is because they're willing to accuse people of being racists on the flimsiest of pretexts. It's tempting to compare these race-hustling poverty pimps to the KKK, but the more appropriate analogy is the Spanish Inquisition. The attitude is, "So what if we unjustly accuse a lot of people as long as we get a few heretics in the process?"

4) Outrage matters more than facts: It doesn't matter what Bush actually did in New Orleans or that the local government failed the people of the city; it matters how people FEEL about it. It doesn't matter that Democrats have run Detroit since 1962; it matters that people FEEL Republicans are responsible. It doesn't matter that Trayvon Martin wasn't really a twelve year old kid and that he was slamming George Zimmerman's head into the pavement; it matters that Zimmerman's acquittal FEELS symbolic of law-abiding black Americans being profiled because so many other black Americans are criminals. Once an accusation of racism is made, facts are treated as if they're of secondary importance to FEELINGS.

5) It's okay to discriminate against white Americans: It's unbelievable that in 2013, we still have race-based discrimination in America and liberals are perfectly fine with it. The rationale for what should be an incredible violation of the equal protection clause in the Constitution? It's that whites are doing better than blacks are as a group. That's probably a cold comfort to the son of a white single mother making minimum wage whose son loses out to one of Obama's daughters because he happened to be Caucasian.

6) It's always the fifties and sixties: Comparing the United States of 2013, when we have a black President of the United States to a time when black Americans couldn't drink from the same water fountains as whites is so ridiculous that to do so should practically be considered a sign of mental illness. Yet, it happens all the time and it's not immediately met with laughter and eye rolls. It should be. The reason that it happens is because it benefits liberals politically to pretend that racism is still everywhere. After all, what else does the Democrat Party have to offer minorities in America other than protection from mostly non-existent racism? Crime-ridden neighborhoods? Joblessness? Poverty? Fighting mostly non-existent racism the Democrat Party can handle just fine, but actually helping people improve their lives is apparently way too tough to manage.

7) Past evidence must be ignored: Ironically, saying you have "black friends" is now considered to be something that a racist would say. That says much more about the sort of witch hunt allegations of racism have become in this country than the people who say it. Judge Charles Pickering put his life on the line to prosecute the Grand Dragon of the KKK in Mississippi in the early sixties; yet liberals falsely branded him a racist to stop his nomination to the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. George Zimmerman tutored black children and fought to get justice for a black homeless man beaten by police and even voted for Obama, but he was still falsely portrayed as a racist. This can happen only because determining if someone is a racist has become a political tool that is completely disconnected from whether the person in question actually dislikes people because of the color of their skin.

8) Republicans secretly want to do things Democrats used to do: Conservative, moderate, and liberal Democrats were behind slavery, the KKK, Jim Crow laws, segregation, the Tuskegee Experiment, lynchings and every other racist horror inflicted on black Americans in this country. Republicans stood against the Democrats while they were doing all of those terrible things and while we congratulate them on now agreeing with us that they were wrong, it's disgusting to try to blame Democrat sins on the Republican Party. God willing, a hundred years from now Democrats will be wagging their fingers about the horrors of murdering children via abortion and claiming Republicans secretly want to abort children. If so, it would be the same sort of step forward we've seen from the Democrats on racism.

9) Minorities shouldn't be held to the same standards as whites:Walter Williams once said, "During the first Reagan administration, I participated in a number of press conferences on either a book or article Id written or as a panelist in a discussion of White House public policy. On occasion, when the question-and-answer session began, Id tell the press, 'You can treat me like a white person. Ask hard, penetrating questions.' The remark often brought uncomfortable laughter, but I was dead serious. If there is one general characteristic of white liberals, its their condescending and demeaning attitude toward blacks." The soft bigotry of low expectations that liberals bring to the table encourages mediocrity, undercuts excellence and generally helps to hold minorities in America back.

10) When a white non-liberal disagrees with a liberal minority, it's probably because of racism: Republicans absolutely detested Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton; so what kind of moron would assume that their intense dislike of Barack Obama must be driven by race? Tea Partiers love black conservatives that agree with them, like Herman Cain and Allen West; so could there be a reason that they detest Barack Obama other than race? Do we really need the Scooby Gang to figure out why a group that's all about small government, low taxes, and cutting spending would dislike a socialist who's all about big government, higher taxes and increasing spending?

11) Only liberals get to decide what's racist: We've set up a system where the world's most easily offended people get to decide what's offensive and what's not and coincidentally, crying "racism" often helps them fund raise or hurts their political opponents. It's like starting up the Salem Witch Trials again and then giving Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the NAACP $10,000 every time they find a "witch" to burn. If we did that, what do you think the chances are they'd be finding witches EVERYWHERE? EXACTLY.

 

 

 

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[Sho Nuff 720]

It was a take down move, known to me as a rolling headlock. If it was a chokehold, why did he let go before he choked him out? Do you really think the intent of that move was to choke him out or get him on the ground? It's pretty obvious he was trying to get him on the ground to cuff him because he refused to put his behind his back.

Wait...to be a chokehold you contend you have to hild on til he is choked out?

 

No answer on the cause of death or why the nypd guy caled it a chokehold after 5he incident?

[Baker Boy 1,500]

I implemented a new payroll system today and it kicked off without a hitch. It looks like all the hard work that went into it paid off.

 

What did you guys accomplish today?

[Sho Nuff 720]

fixed to maintain the false narrative.

Nobody here claiming that. And you two want to call other people race baiters?

[Sho Nuff 720]

I implemented a new payroll system today and it kicked off without a hitch. It looks like all the hard work that went into it paid off.

 

What did you guys accomplish today?

Gave your wife a few bucks from the govt teet = new payroll system?

[drobeski 3,061]

I implemented a new payroll system today and it kicked off without a hitch. It looks like all the hard work that went into it paid off.

 

What did you guys accomplish today?

I commissioned a 500l bioreactor, and a couple servos on duplicate filter skids with lifting mechanisms for the filter cover.

Ordered the materials to set up our newly arrived frequency generator.

Won 5 or 6 threads, and plunged 14 terlets.

[HenryHill9323 65]

What are y'all even debating? It's over. Zimmerman was found to be innocent of any criminal wrong doing and used self defense. People who looked at ALL the evidence made a decision.

 

A decision that is alot more informed than anyone here, so why not just take it for what it is? Sheesh.

That is exactly why the race baiters are back for another beatdown............they can't accept the evidence cuz Al Sharpton tells them to be outraged.

[jerryskids 5,296]

Chokeholds are applied by standing behind someone and putting pressure on the neck, cutting off air supply until the person passes out. Not exactly what happened in this case.

Actually, most choke holds cut of the blood to the brain from the carotid arteries, not the air flow. If applied correctly the victim will pass out in seconds, which wouldn't happen from air flow restriction. That's why I maintain that it wasn't really a choke hold, because Garner never passed out, and I don't think the cop's intention was for him to pass out.

[Magnificent Bastard 190]

Ok, I surrender, it was a chokehold. So what? Chokeholds are not illegal in NY. So what should the cop have been indicted for? Using physical force to subdue a non compliant arrestee? I saw them reasoning with him for quite a while, should they have waited some more, called in a negotiation team? You should try and cuff a 300 pound man who doesn't want to go. It ain't easy

[Sho Nuff 720]

Ok, I surrender, it was a chokehold. So what? Chokeholds are not illegal in NY. So what should the cop have been indicted for? Using physical force to subdue a non compliant arrestee? I saw them reasoning with him for quite a while, should they have waited some more, called in a negotiation team? You should try and cuff a 300 pound man who doesn't want to go. It ain't easy

Chokeholds have been banned by the nypd though correct?

 

And i didn't say yhat alone should have him inficted...you just seem so hung up on the chokehold thing.

[rholio 339]

When did this turn into a greatest hits album? I thought there'd be some new material.

[Voltaire 4,573]

I implemented a new payroll system today and it kicked off without a hitch. It looks like all the hard work that went into it paid off.

 

What did you guys accomplish today?

When I first read this, I'd exercised, eaten breakfast, went peepee, and gotten to work on time.

 

Now I've taught all my classes, ate lunch at the local Xiang Jiang restaurant (even though cafeteria food is free, I won't eat it unless it's pureed so I can consume it rectally) and am now focking off at work posting messages in this forarm waiting for the kids to leave so I can go home. The highlight of my day was the greatest moments in baseball thread because it gave me an excuse to watch/post a video of Disco Demolition Night.

[RLLD 3,505]

What are y'all even debating? It's over. Zimmerman was found to be innocent of any criminal wrong doing and used self defense. People who looked at ALL the evidence made a decision.

 

A decision that is alot more informed than anyone here, so why not just take it for what it is? Sheesh.

 

The verdict was of course correct based on the available evidence, what I am speaking to is the contiuation of this perverse mentality that pervades the minds of certain people and turns away from teh most important piece: learning from mistakes.

 

What is inescapably clear and unfortunate is that people did not learn from these events, in fact they seem to actively avoid learning from them. It comes across as an outrgith refusal to accept responsibility and conduct ones actions within the rule of law.

 

When you hear, or in this case see, people announce that Martin did nothing wrong and was a pure victim it really gives you pause, because it demonstrates a clear disconnect from reality. One the one hand you have these people decry the actions of idiot #1 to follow idiot #2 as this horrible action that led to untimely death, and in the same breath justify the actions of idtiot #2 to turn on and engage idtiot #1.

 

It staggers the imagination that a person can do this, and clearly shows that we can expect to see these events continue, the reason being.....people are really focking stupid, and that stupidy leads them to do really stupid things, and when people do stupid things are of differeing racial backgrounds, it becomes some self-sustaining proof that something which is not true or real is tangible, that then leads to more stupid notions of reality.

 

By way of example, I learned that if you defend yourself from harm being conducted by a person of color, you run the risk of being vilified by the national media. Carrying a gun to protect yourself is not all its cracked up to be, people need to learn from this and understand that people of color can do as they please, and any attempts to stop them or object will earn you the label of racist.