Mile High Drunk 13 Posted January 14, 2015 I am not plucking from specific games of course, however his body of work supports my assertion, his injury clearly had an impact as you have illuminated. I think some of it did have to deal with the injury and some of it is just his age and his diminishing skills. He was very good at the beginning of the season, but was not the same QB as the previous season. I think the skill players were even better this season, but missing Knowshon as a checkdown was a big loss for him. The offensive line was pretty bad this year and it showed with his happy feet and not trusting the pocket. When the Broncos abandoned the pure shotgun offense after the StL loss, his ability to read defenses and go through the route progressions took a big hit. I don't know what the answer is, but if they bring Peyton back next year, I think you have to go back to a shotgun based offense and use the running game just to slow down the pass rush. His days of taking a 5 step drop are done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mile High Drunk 13 Posted January 14, 2015 Peyton Manning was the weakest link and the strongest link for the Broncos. As in, if he played well the team was really really good. If he didn't they stunk. It all hinged on him. I think that says more about the rest of the team if you ask me. They were totally dependent on Manning to carry them. If he didn't, they lost. Anybody that watched the Broncos this season, and compared the last few games with the first 13 had to ask themselves "What the fock is up? What happened? This makes no sense, how do go from such a high powered offense to nothing just all the sudden? Well now we know the answer to the question. It's not an excuse.....injuries happen in football all the time. It's just the facts and reality of the situation. This pretty much says it all: The question now, at his age, and with being injured quite often the past couple years, will he try to come back. I'd put it at 50/50. You live and die with him. He has so much control of the offense and game plan that if he is off that day the team is going to lose. The Broncos did find a running game with CJ Anderson emerging as a quality every down back. But in order to establish the running game, they started taking a lot more snaps from under center and then Peyton struggled. When Peyton is on, they are tough to beat. I just don't think they can have a running game and a great passing attack at the same time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUXBNME 1,358 Posted January 19, 2015 Settled Young > Brady Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BunnysBastatrds 1,955 Posted January 19, 2015 Young > Brady No! Brady solidified his importance tonight. His comand on the field tonight far outweighs anything before him. Young included. And I'd argue that Young was a man living in Montana's shadow. As he should have. Young May have blown defenses away in the regular drain. But he never did what Montana did when it counted at the end of the season to get them in and then in the playoffs. The prevent D was sculpted because of him and Walsh's west coast offense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted January 19, 2015 Young > Bradyyoung led his team to 6, count em, 6 super bowls ? 21 playoff wins ? Link, proof ? Young = Manning Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 513 Posted January 19, 2015 Montana and Brady are the two best qb's ever in my lifetime and it's not even close. Manning is great during the regular season, but has the choke factor in the postseason. Manning got a gift from the football gods when the Bears made it to the Super Bowl. Say what you want about Brady, but the guy is a winner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,087 Posted January 19, 2015 Settled Like I said a week ago. If Brady plays well and wins the Superbowl this season he surpasses Manning on my personal GOAT QB list. If Brady comes up short next week he stays just behind. It's that close. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthernVike 2,080 Posted January 19, 2015 I concede Brady>Manning I'll still take Montana over Brady though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,087 Posted January 19, 2015 Manning is great during the regular season, but has the choke factor in the postseason. This is what makes me laugh about sports fans when talking about QB's in a team sport. There is so much that goes into winning a football game. Momentum, luck, making plays, turnovers, coaching, on and on. Just because your team lost doesn't mean the QB played poorely. And just because a team won doesn't mean a QB played well. For instance, Did Aaron Rodgers play poorly yesterday? Or did he play pretty well and other factors (coaching, defense, special teams) let him and his team down? Sports fans are so fickle that if Bostick simply catches the onside kick people are talking about how A.Rodgers is now on his way to being the GOAT!@#! He was injured and went into Seattle and won. What a Warrior!@!#! But instead people are whispering that "Hey did you know that Rodgers is only 6-5 in playoff games. Thats not very good! People need to have a little more perspective for crying out loud. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted January 19, 2015 Like I said a week ago. If Brady plays well and wins the Superbowl this season he surpasses Manning on my personal GOAT QB list. If Brady comes up short next week he stays just behind. It's that close. sorry, I meant settled scientifically and factually, not ksb opinion wise. Been settled for a while now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,087 Posted January 19, 2015 sorry, I meant settled scientifically and factually, not ksb opinion wise. Been settled for a while now. Gotcha. So your opinon of what Greatest QB of All Time means is really Most Accomplished QB of All Time. If that is the definion we should go by then you are correct. Because one can simply look at the records and "factually" deem it so. Agreed. However if GOAT encompasses more than just Super Bowl appearances and Post Season Wins, but rather all other factors one can think of like passing records, skill set, statistics, eye test, who's been their coach, how good were the complimentary players, etc. Then I think that list may be a bit different. Emmit Smith is probably the Most Accomplished RB of All Time, similar to Tom Brady. Do you consider Emmitt to be the Greatest RB to ever play in the NFL? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,430 Posted January 19, 2015 Like I said a week ago. If Brady plays well and wins the Superbowl this season he surpasses Manning on my personal GOAT QB list. If Brady comes up short next week he stays just behind. It's that close. If brady does not win the super bowl in two weeks he still has three titles as compared to peyton's one title and NINE TIMES one and done in the playoffs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,087 Posted January 19, 2015 If brady does not win the super bowl in two weeks he still has three titles as compared to peyton's one title and NINE TIMES one and done in the playoffs Which is why its really close, because if Brady didn't have two more titles than Manning it wouldn't even be a conversation. Like I just typed. Are we discussing who is more "Accomplished" from a team perspective or who is the "Greatest"? I'll ask you the same question. Emmit Smith is probably the most "Accomplished" RB in history. Multiple SB titles, team wins and the Rushing record. Do you consider him the GOAT RB ever? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUXBNME 1,358 Posted January 19, 2015 young led his team to 6, count em, 6 super bowls ? 21 playoff wins ? Link, proof ? Young = Manning Young = Better at the position than Brady. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,087 Posted January 19, 2015 Look, Tom Brady is a really, really good QB. His story of being a 6th round pick and accomplishing what's he done is a remarkable story. If next week was his last game ever, he's IN the team picture of GOAT QB's along with a handful of others. But for me, whenever I rank GOAT like this I whittle it down to asking this question: If all the QB's were 25 years old, and there was a Draft to start a football team, and everybody kept their pick for a decade. Who would you draft 1st? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted January 19, 2015 Look, Tom Brady is a really, really good QB. His story of being a 6th round pick and accomplishing what's he done is a remarkable story. If next week was his last game ever, he's IN the team picture of GOAT QB's along with a handful of others. But for me, whenever I rank GOAT like this I whittle it down to asking this question: If all the QB's were 25 years old, and there was a Draft to start a football team, and everybody kept their pick for a decade. Who would you draft 1st? eventually being the #1 qb taken doesn't mean a thing. Eventually common sense says you judge by the success and body of work. Hype doesn't mean schit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,087 Posted January 19, 2015 eventually being the #1 qb taken doesn't mean a thing. Eventually common sense says you judge by the success and body of work. Hype doesn't mean schit. I don't think you understand my question. You do realize the quetion is retroactive in that you are drafting knowing the history and career of every player right? So there is no hype. Again, what you are arguing is not the GOAT, its the Most Accomplished of All Time. I think there is and should be a difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted January 19, 2015 I don't think you understand my question. You do realize the quetion is retroactive in that you are drafting knowing the history and career of every player right? So there is no hype. Again, what you are arguing is not the GOAT, its the Most Accomplished of All Time. I think there is and should be a difference. Brady and its not even close. I'm sure the great majority of gm's owners and coaches would agree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,719 Posted January 19, 2015 Brady and its not even close. Not even close? What size is your pink hat? 8 3/4? Of course it is close. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,430 Posted January 19, 2015 Which is why its really close, because if Brady didn't have two more titles than Manning it wouldn't even be a conversation. Like I just typed. Are we discussing who is more "Accomplished" from a team perspective or who is the "Greatest"? I'll ask you the same question. Emmit Smith is probably the most "Accomplished" RB in history. Multiple SB titles, team wins and the Rushing record. Do you consider him the GOAT RB ever? We're discussing who is the greatest QB ever. Their playoff accomplishments obviously work into that. If you want to say Manning is the greatest regular season QB ever, well okay but whoop dee focking do Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthernVike 2,080 Posted January 19, 2015 I concede Brady>Manning I take this back after finding out that he is cheating once again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,087 Posted January 19, 2015 We're discussing who is the greatest QB ever. Their playoff accomplishments obviously work into that. If you want to say Manning is the greatest regular season QB ever, well okay but whoop dee focking do Of course playoff accompishments works in to it, its a big factor....but my point is that its not the ONLY factor when determining a GOAT. Most Accomplished doesn't neccssarily mean Greatest Ever. It may (see Jerry Rice) but it may not (see Emmit Smith). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,719 Posted January 19, 2015 I take this back after finding out that he is cheating once again. I'm positive his balls are bigger than Andrew Luck's Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryHill9323 65 Posted January 19, 2015 I'm positive his balls are bigger than Andrew Luck's You are the expert on guy's balls. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthernVike 2,080 Posted January 19, 2015 I'm positive his balls are bigger than Andrew Luck's How come tommy never grows a beard like Luck does? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redtodd 7 Posted January 19, 2015 This should not even be a debate. The debate should be who is the best ever - Brady or Montana? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryHill9323 65 Posted January 19, 2015 How come tommy never grows a beard like Luck does? He has his face waxed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
porkbutt 866 Posted January 19, 2015 http://turtleboysports.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/brady-water-slide1.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted January 19, 2015 http://turtleboysports.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/brady-water-slide1.jpg [/quotehttp://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/52166175.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 513 Posted January 19, 2015 This is what makes me laugh about sports fans when talking about QB's in a team sport. There is so much that goes into winning a football game. Momentum, luck, making plays, turnovers, coaching, on and on. Just because your team lost doesn't mean the QB played poorely. And just because a team won doesn't mean a QB played well. For instance, Did Aaron Rodgers play poorly yesterday? Or did he play pretty well and other factors (coaching, defense, special teams) let him and his team down? Sports fans are so fickle that if Bostick simply catches the onside kick people are talking about how A.Rodgers is now on his way to being the GOAT!@#! He was injured and went into Seattle and won. What a Warrior!@!#! But instead people are whispering that "Hey did you know that Rodgers is only 6-5 in playoff games. Thats not very good! People need to have a little more perspective for crying out loud. I have plenty of perspective. I've watched Manning since his days in college. I live in Indiana and watched him most Sundays (since I would consider myself a Colts fan) while he was a Colt. I watched Tennessee win a national championship in 1998. That was something Manning couldn't do, but Tee Martin won it the very next season manning left, and in Martin's first season as qb.....coincidence? I watched Manning shred teams during the regular season only to disappear in the postseason.....coincidence? I watched Manning rack up regular season records after records, only to have the record for most postseason losses by a starting qb...coincidence? How can someone be so great in the regular season but have such a poor postseason record? Is he just unlucky? How can someone be considered the goat yet constantly falter in the postseason. If it happens once or twice, then yes I'd agree with you, but when you can set your watch to Peytons disappearing act then there might be something to Peyton not being a "big game" qb. The greats find a way and win big games. Peyton simply does not. He is a stat whoore. He's the goat regular season qb, but I want my qb's winning championships, not regular season stat records. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeelingMN 273 Posted January 19, 2015 Somebody explain to Tom that GOAT is an acronym. http://thejerseychaser.com/wp-content/uploads//bradygoat-300x393.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,679 Posted January 19, 2015 Tom Brady doesn't have nearly as many commercials as Peyton Manning. Quarterback fail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crackattack 513 Posted January 19, 2015 Tom Brady doesn't have nearly as many commercials as Peyton Manning. Quarterback fail. Brady's to busy practicing for the playoffs and Super Bowls to worry about commercials. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,430 Posted January 19, 2015 Somebody explain to Tom that GOAT is an acronym. http://thejerseychaser.com/wp-content/uploads//bradygoat-300x393.jpg It's not an acronym if you're living it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeelingMN 273 Posted January 19, 2015 It's not an acronym if you're loving it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,430 Posted January 19, 2015 Isn't that goat lucky? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryHill9323 65 Posted January 19, 2015 http://turtleboysports.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/brady-water-slide1.jpg Kid waxes his chest too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted February 2, 2015 Thread title fixed for accuracy. Let's be honest, manning doesn't even belong in the conversation. GOAT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Ryan2 315 Posted February 2, 2015 Can we wait until careers are over for perspective. Brady's not done yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
