KSB2424 3,173 Posted January 5, 2016 So? There's the reality of the thing and the political and media version of that reality. You should be able to tell the difference. You're right. It's what I get for listening to the President speak and watching CNN. I should know better than to do either. Shame on me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoytdwow 202 Posted January 5, 2016 You're right. It's what I get for listening to the President speak and watching CNN. I should know better than to do either. Shame on me. All you have to do is know what executive orders are Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted January 5, 2016 I guess my point is the suicidal guy will find another way, gun or not, to do the act, can't really control that. That is a common misperception. Suicide attempts by gun usually end in death - guns are very effective for this purpose. Yet suicide is typically an impulsive act, and the vast majority of people who attempt it and survive do NOT go on to kill themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Djgb13 2,339 Posted January 5, 2016 That is a common misperception. Suicide attempts by gun usually end in death - guns are very effective for this purpose. Yet suicide is typically an impulsive act, and the vast majority of people who attempt it and survive do NOT go on to kill themselves. Matters not. It's still suicide. There's no rope related death category for people who hang themselves is there? Suicides are a class of their own and should be treated as such. Mode of suicide doesn't matter 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted January 5, 2016 People already have problems going to get help as it is. Put them on a database? Hell no they won't be going. There is a reason behind HIPAA. No one but the doctor, the nurse, and the technician should be able to look at their encounters. Insurers can also access medical records, as can police and government agencies in some instances. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 1,268 Posted January 5, 2016 I have no problem with him closing the loopholes at gunshows and flea markets. I do however wonder how many crimes have been committed with guns sold in these places in relation to sayyyyyyy the FBI giving guns to cartels. I also understand that none of the mass shootings would have been stopped by closing this loophole. It is still going to be viewed as a gun grab and is going to hurt the democrats in the upcoming election. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted January 5, 2016 Matters not. It's still suicide. There's no rope related death category for people who hang themselves is there? Suicides are a class of their own and should be treated as such. Mode of suicide doesn't matter It absolutely matters, and should be a more visible part of gun control efforts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mungwater 601 Posted January 5, 2016 Insurers can also access medical records, as can police and government agencies in some instances. You know if you ever get something denied on insurance, you can call and ask them who saw your file, if they don't have your consent for every person who saw it, they will quickly change their tune. HIPPA is a sensitive and strong b!tch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted January 5, 2016 You know if you ever get something denied on insurance, you can call and ask them who saw your file, if they don't have your consent for every person who saw it, they will quickly change their tune. HIPPA is a sensitive and strong b!tch. Not sure if that is true, but HIPAA protects those who provide your care and those who pay for it, in addition to those you designate. Plus, in some instances, the cops and the Feds. I also believe there is a bunch of ignorance and fear of HIPAA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,173 Posted January 5, 2016 All you have to do is know what executive orders are I do, which is why I had an issue with it as it was explained on CNN and hyped as something it's not in that speech. :facepalm: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,063 Posted January 5, 2016 Nicely done KSB, somehow blaming your own ignorance on the president you dislike and the cable news network you hate. Most impressive Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DankNuggs 305 Posted January 5, 2016 I have no problem with him closing the loopholes at gunshows and flea markets. I do however wonder how many crimes have been committed with guns sold in these places in relation to sayyyyyyy the FBI giving guns to cartels. I also understand that none of the mass shootings would have been stopped by closing this loophole. It is still going to be viewed as a gun grab and is going to hurt the democrats in the upcoming election. its a ridiculously common sense measure. its not going to hurt anything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 1,268 Posted January 5, 2016 its a ridiculously common sense measure. its not going to hurt anything I have no problem with it. Republicans are going to use this as a selling point to anyone on the fence. It will in fact have an impact and in a race that could be very tight between 2 hated candidates you never know what is going to tip the scale. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,173 Posted January 5, 2016 Nicely done KSB, somehow blaming your own ignorance on the president you dislike and the cable news network you hate. Most impressive It's as if you don't even read the threads. Either that or you don't know what the term 'ignorant' actually means. I'll type real....r e a l....slow. Me, KSB, knowing full well Executive Orders shouldn't be used to enact law (that is Congress's job) upon listening to the President speak and then listening to CNN hype it up as some sort of new "law" and all these new "changes" was a bit perplexed. EO's aren't supposed to do that unless in some sort of emergency situation like a war or a natural disaster. Therefore either A. Obama was overstepping his bounds and exploiting the EO process OR B. The EO was perfectly fine and it was hyped as something its not in that speech and on the cable news outlet. I initially suspected A, but should have leaned more to B and not trusted the hype from the Presidents speech and cable news outlet spin. Shame on me for doing that, but it has zero to do with being ignorant of Executive Orders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gocolts 300 Posted January 5, 2016 Majority of Trump Sanders supporters? Fixed for accuracy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,173 Posted January 5, 2016 How about the "tears"... Seemed genuine. Not sure how you can bash a person, especially a President for caring to much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 192 Posted January 5, 2016 I asked before, but all I got was why it won't be done. I'll ask again: should people on disability for mental health reasons be allowed to own a gun? Forget about the hippa aspect for now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Djgb13 2,339 Posted January 5, 2016 I asked before, but all I got was why it won't be done. I'll ask again: should people on disability for mental health reasons be allowed to own a gun? Forget about the hippa aspect for now. What exact mental condition are we talking about? There are multiple mental conditions people go to mental health for. Do I feel all people who go to mental health for treatment should not be allowed to own a firearm? No I don't. There are some that shouldn't be allowed to and others who should be allowed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 192 Posted January 5, 2016 What exact mental condition are we talking about? There are multiple mental conditions people go to mental health for. Do I feel all people who go to mental health for treatment should not be allowed to own a firearm? No I don't. There are some that shouldn't be allowed to and others who should be allowed. What mental health condition would you say it's ok for them to own a gun? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 6,019 Posted January 5, 2016 What mental health condition would you say it's ok for them to own a gun? Anorexia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Djgb13 2,339 Posted January 5, 2016 What mental health condition would you say it's ok for them to own a gun? Off the top of my head there's obsessive compulsive disorder which is harmless but should still be allowed to purchase a gun. Not everyone who goes to mental health is actually unstable. Some go for counseling. Mental health is a broad spectrum of medicine so you can't just say someone shouldn't be able to own a gun just because they've visited mental health Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 192 Posted January 5, 2016 Anorexia I should have said permanent or long term disability. I don't think you would get it for anorexia. Could be wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 584 Posted January 5, 2016 "We don't need gun control, we need to deal with mental health" is such a great deflection because it is something that can't be resolved. Unless our society decides it is okay to stick the millions of bipolar and schizophrenic citizens into asylums like the old days, you can never get a handle on it. Why? Because (like with drug addiction, smoking, and even obesity) you can never control whether a person will take their medications, see their therapist, etc. A doctor can make a proper diagnosis, prescribe all the right medications, schedule the follow-up appointments...Medicaid can agree to pay 99% of the expense for the medications and treatment. And still there will be (and are) many patients who will decide to stop taking their medications, to not make their doctors appointments, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 192 Posted January 5, 2016 Off the top of my head there's obsessive compulsive disorder which is harmless but should still be allowed to purchase a gun. Not everyone who goes to mental health is actually unstable. Some go for counseling. Mental health is a broad spectrum of medicine so you can't just say someone shouldn't be able to own a gun just because they've visited mental health I didn't say visiting mental health. I'm talking about going through the process and being deemed disabled due to mental health issues. There is a process to get it, I know a few who have. It wasnt just handed to them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Djgb13 2,339 Posted January 5, 2016 I should have said permanent or long term disability. I don't think you would get it for anorexia. Could be wrong. No but mental health is definitely a broad term. That's what I'm worried about with the whole mental health issue. There's a reason HIPAA exists. Most patients who go to mental health don't want people knowing they go. There's a variety of reasons which people are in mental health and that should not be held against them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 7,085 Posted January 5, 2016 What mental health condition would you say it's ok for them to own a gun?Liberalism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 192 Posted January 5, 2016 No but mental health is definitely a broad term. That's what I'm worried about with the whole mental health issue. There's a reason HIPAA exists. Most patients who go to mental health don't want people knowing they go. There's a variety of reasons which people are in mental health and that should not be held against them Then tell me what they are. There are according to you a variety, shouldn't be hard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Djgb13 2,339 Posted January 5, 2016 Then tell me what they are. There are according to you a variety, shouldn't be hard. MB just google them. I don't have time to sit here and write out every single harmless mental health disorder. Hell there will be plenty that I don't even think of cause I don't work in mental health. If you're that curious you can look them up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 192 Posted January 5, 2016 MB just google them. I don't have time to sit here and write out every single harmless mental health disorder. Hell there will be plenty that I don't even think of cause I don't work in mental health. If you're that curious you can look them up Ok. You said a variety and can't name one. Why should I look it up when I think people on disability for mental health shouldn't have a gun? I'm not going to agree, so what's the point? Go away if you can't back up your statement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 7,085 Posted January 5, 2016 Ok. You said a variety and can't name one. Go away. I sound more like a doctor than he does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mungwater 601 Posted January 5, 2016 Ok. You said a variety and can't name one. Go away.He named one ETA: does hoarding count? Obsessive eating? Sexual addicts? That's just off top of my big ole dumb head Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Djgb13 2,339 Posted January 5, 2016 Ok. You said a variety and can't name one. Go away. MB do you ever listen to yourself or are you just that dumb? Anxiety and Obsessive compulsive have already been mentioned. Should I put anorexia or bulimia with them as well? Do you need more? If so google them. No one has time to argue with a clown Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 192 Posted January 5, 2016 MB do you ever listen to yourself or are you just that dumb? Anxiety and Obsessive compulsive have already been mentioned. Should I put anorexia or bulimia with them as well? Do you need more? If so google them. No one has time to argue with a clown Like I said, I doubt you get disability for anorexia. I doubt ocd qualifies either. Maybe to an Extreme, and yeah, if it's that bad, they shouldn't have guns either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Djgb13 2,339 Posted January 5, 2016 Like I said, I doubt you get disability for anorexia. I doubt ocd qualifies either. Maybe to a. Extreme, and yeah, if it's that bad, they shouldn't have guns either. Were we talking about getting disability for them? No. We are talking about mental health background checks. The fact that they went to mental health for whatever reason could be held against them from purchasing a gun. Like I stated before, there are a variety of reasons for someone to see mental health. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 192 Posted January 5, 2016 He named one ETA: does hoarding count? Obsessive eating? Sexual addicts? That's just off top of my big ole dumb head Hoarding on its own gets you disability? No. Nether will the others. Keep trying Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 192 Posted January 5, 2016 Were we talking about getting disability for them? No. We are talking about mental health background checks. The fact that they went to mental health for whatever reason could be held against them from purchasing a gun. Like I stated before, there are a variety of reasons for someone to see mental health. I'll say it again: I'm asking about people who have gone through the process and have been given permanent or long term disability due to mental health reasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 6,019 Posted January 5, 2016 Like I said, I doubt you get disability for anorexia. I doubt ocd qualifies either. Maybe to an Extreme, and yeah, if it's that bad, they shouldn't have guns either. Your stance is that if you're getting disability for a mental issue you are automatically disqualified from owning a gun? Is that your stance? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Djgb13 2,339 Posted January 5, 2016 Hoarding on its own gets you disability? No. Nether will the others. Keep trying Where exactly does it state ANYWHERE that collecting disability for a mental health condition is what they will be looking at? I have yet to see that. I doubt depression gets you disability yet that could be classified as someone not being able to buy a gun. But then again people go through depression. It's not a life long condition Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 192 Posted January 5, 2016 Your stance is that if you're getting disability for a mental issue you are automatically disqualified from owning a gun? Is that your stance? Yes, unless you can show me a mental health condition that would be severe enough to qualify for long term or permanent disability, but they should still be able to own a gun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magnificent Bastard 192 Posted January 5, 2016 Where exactly does it state ANYWHERE that collecting disability for a mental health condition is what they will be looking at? I have yet to see that. I doubt depression gets you disability yet that could be classified as someone not being able to buy a gun. But then again people go through depression. It's not a life long condition I'm not talking about what was done. I'm asking for an opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
