Executive Order

[Djgb13 2,339]

I'm not talking about what was done. I'm asking for an opinion.

But the problem is there is nowhere that states anything about investigating people who are collecting disability for a mental health disorder. There's a lot of mental health conditions that don't get disability but would probably qualify as not being able to own a gun. An example is bipolar disorder or depression. Would you say that if someone was going through depression that they shouldn't own a gun? If yes then what if they aren't depressed anymore? Can they buy one then? Or would the government say no because they went to mental health for depression and should not own a gun

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

But the problem is there is nowhere that states anything about investigating people who are collecting disability for a mental health disorder. There's a lot of mental health conditions that don't get disability but would probably qualify as not being able to own a gun. An example is bipolar disorder or depression. Would you say that if someone was going through depression that they shouldn't own a gun? If yes then what if they aren't depressed anymore? Can they buy one then? Or would the government say no because they went to mental health for depression and should not own a gun

Do you know what long term or permanent means? If you do, answer the question. If you don't, then go away.

[Djgb13 2,339]

Do you know what long term or permanent means? If you do, answer the question. If you don't, then go away.

I'm done. There's no talking with you

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

I'll ask it another way. Do second amendment purists think someone who has Asbergers, and it is serious enough that they are on disability for it, be able to purchase a gun?

[Strike 6,019]

Yes, unless you can show me a mental health condition that would be severe enough to qualify for long term or permanent disability, but they should still be able to own a gun.

 

Just want to point out that some people say there isn't a slippery slope argument ever. I think you've demonstrated that those of us who believe in the slippery slope are absolutely justified in doing so. Thanks.

[Strike 6,019]

BTW, MB, my research shows that you can in fact get disability benefits for Anorexia. So *POOF*, there goes your entire argument unless you want to deny 2nd amendment rights to people with eating disorders. You can also get disability for Bulimia, and Insomnia. So hey, great argument you got going there. Bravo.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

BTW, MB, my research shows that you can in fact get disability benefits for Anorexia. So *POOF*, there goes your entire argument unless you want to deny 2nd amendment rights to people with eating disorders. You can also get disability for Bulimia, and Insomnia. So hey, great argument you got going there. Bravo.

Like I said, I could be wrong. Did you read that part? No. But good job.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

BTW, MB, my research shows that you can in fact get disability benefits for Anorexia. So *POOF*, there goes your entire argument unless you want to deny 2nd amendment rights to people with eating disorders. You can also get disability for Bulimia, and Insomnia. So hey, great argument you got going there. Bravo.

Ok, but what about other mental health issues like bi-polar and severe depression(suicide attempts, violence towards others), should those people be able to purchase a weapon?

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Like I said, I could be wrong. Did you read that part? No. But good job.

Like you said, you were talking out your ass as always. But god forbid someone call you out on it

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

Like you said, you were talking out your ass as always. But god forbid someone call you out on it

You read nothing and are just showing your obsession with me. It's played out. But glad to see you and the doctor on the same team

[Strike 6,019]

Ok, but what about other mental health issues like bi-polar and severe depression(suicide attempts, violence towards others), should those people be able to purchase a weapon?

 

Why would I continue this discussion when you've already moved the goalposts TWICE? You made your argument. I refuted it. End of discussion.

[shorepatrol 1,871]

I'd rather have him just do it than worry about the process.

You really need to move to another country

[Djgb13 2,339]

 

Why would I continue this discussion when you've already moved the goalposts TWICE? You made your argument. I refuted it. End of discussion.

You gotta understand MB is talking out of his ass most of the time. He then starts name calling and tries to sling insults. There's no having a discussion with him because he will never admit he is wrong.

 

On a different note, I find it hilarious that Obama tried to act like he was crying and being emotional during his press conference about his new gun policy. What a load of sh1t. One, you knew it was fake. And 2, if he was then it just proves that he is a big pu$$y

[MDC 7,885]

That doesn't sound remotely HIPAA compliant. And people may avoid seeking mental health care if such a database existed, which is already a big problem because of the stigma of mental illness.

I won't pretend to be a lawyer, but would it be HIPAA compliant if the patient agreed to waive his right to medical privacy as a condition of owning a gun? Meaning this database or whatever would be a voluntary opt in. Dunno.

 

People voluntarily waive their right to all pens of privacy as a condition of things that are much more innate to their liberty and happiness than gun ownership. Nobody can stop me and look into my bag on the street without probable cause but if I want to board a flight they x-Ray my luggage for example.

 

I'm not sure about Obummer's abilities so far as executive order but I don't see the HIPAA thing as a non starter.

[KSB2424 3,173]

It's a difficult issue as I've long been a champion for destigmatizing mental health disorders. We don't look down on folks who are injured to other parts of the body or organs, but mental health is looked down upon, people are scared to talk about it and thus many are left untreated.

 

Any law that further stigmatizes them isn't good. Yet it''s common sense to try and keep guns out of the hand of those who are truly troubled. Its a hard balance for me.

 

Under a federal law enacted in 1968, an individual is prohibited from buying or possessing firearms for life if he/she has been “adjudicated as a mental defective” or “committed to a mental institution.” A person is “adjudicated as a mental defective” if a court—or other entity having legal authority to make adjudications—has made a determination that an individual, as a result of mental illness: 1) Is a danger to himself or to others; 2) Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs; 3) Is found insane by a court in a criminal case, or incompetent to stand trial, or not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility pursuant to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. A person is “committed to a mental institution” if that person has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution by a court or other lawful authority.

 

So it's already unlawful for mentally ill people to buy guns, at least those who have been publicly identified by a court or institution. The question is, is that enough and how can we do more in a thoughtful...and lawful way.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

It's a difficult issue as I've long been a champion for destigmatizing mental health disorders. We don't look down on folks who are injured to other parts of the body or organs, but mental health is looked down upon, people are scared to talk about it and thus many are left untreated.

 

Any law that further stigmatizes them isn't good. Yet it''s common sense to try and keep guns out of the hand of those who are truly troubled. Its a hard balance for me.

 

 

So it's already unlawful for mentally ill people to buy guns, at least those who have been publicly identified by a court or institution. The question is, is that enough and how can we do more in a thoughtful...and lawful way.

But very few people are institutionalized anymore. Meaning that people with mental health issues are not going to be subjected to a narrow exclusion process like that.

[gocolts 300]

I'd rather have him just do it than worry about the process. This congress hates Obama and he'd never get done what he's promised if he waits for them. Such a shame but I'm glad this is another notch on his belt before he leaves office.

Love you girl, but this is pure BS. What have they stopped Obama on??? Seems like he has always received everything he has ever wanted cause the GOP is too scared of being blamed for a shut down or being called racists. Hell, they just funded focking sanctuary cites for GAWD's sake.

 

Also, ever hear of separation of powers???

[gocolts 300]

In this case, I'd rather have him "cheat" than not. If it could save one life, it's worth it imo. We don't have a balanced congress anymore. It's all red in there. Red seems to mean don't move, just like a stop light or stop sign.

Okay, I better stop reading your posts before I lose it.

 

This is flat out a lie, from Obama, not you.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

 

Why would I continue this discussion when you've already moved the goalposts TWICE? You made your argument. I refuted it. End of discussion.

I said I could be wrong and asked for examples. You provided them. Why the hostility?

[MDC 7,885]

I said I could be wrong and asked for examples. You provided them. Why the hostility?

He hates Packer fans.

[Strike 6,019]

I said I could be wrong and asked for examples. You provided them. Why the hostility?

 

You also said that if someone has extreme enough Anorexia that they get disability they shouldn't be able to own guns:

 

Like I said, I doubt you get disability for anorexia. I doubt ocd qualifies either. Maybe to an Extreme, and yeah, if it's that bad, they shouldn't have guns either.

 

So your stance seems to be regardless of the mental illness if it's enough to get you disability you should have your 2nd amendment rights taken away.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

 

You also said that if someone has extreme enough Anorexia that they get disability they shouldn't be able to own guns:

 

 

So your stance seems to be regardless of the mental illness if it's enough to get you disability you should have your 2nd amendment rights taken away.

I was talking about extreme OCD. I have seen it up close, and I think it is an issue for owning a gun.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

 

You also said that if someone has extreme enough Anorexia that they get disability they shouldn't be able to own guns:

 

 

So your stance seems to be regardless of the mental illness if it's enough to get you disability you should have your 2nd amendment rights taken away.

That's why we have a discussion. And you made the point that not all mental health conditions should exclude someone. I can see the point.

[DankNuggs 305]

Question on mental health is if depression is a disqualifying factor. Given the population on antidepressants and you could make the argument fairly easily

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

Anorexia

Probably increases their risk of suicide quite a bit.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Then tell me what they are. There are according to you a variety, shouldn't be hard.

Pathologic lying, for one.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Like I said, I doubt you get disability for anorexia. I doubt ocd qualifies either. Maybe to an Extreme, and yeah, if it's that bad, they shouldn't have guns either.

Instead let's list the diagnoses that should qualify for restricted gun access: Schizophrenia, antisocial and borderline personality disorders, major depression and bipolar disorder? Perhaps substance abuse/addiction as well?

[penultimatestraw 473]

But the problem is there is nowhere that states anything about investigating people who are collecting disability for a mental health disorder. There's a lot of mental health conditions that don't get disability but would probably qualify as not being able to own a gun. An example is bipolar disorder or depression. Would you say that if someone was going through depression that they shouldn't own a gun? If yes then what if they aren't depressed anymore? Can they buy one then? Or would the government say no because they went to mental health for depression and should not own a gun

If suicide isn't relevant, than why does it matter if depressed people have guns?

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

Instead let's list the diagnoses that should qualify for restricted gun access: Schizophrenia, antisocial and borderline personality disorders, major depression and bipolar disorder? Perhaps substance abuse/addiction as well?

Having witnessed all of the above in the flesh, I'm all for it. And it seems they are going to be excluding people from buying guns who are currently on SSDI and are unable to manage their own affairs. All good, common sense actions in my view.

[Djgb13 2,339]

Instead let's list the diagnoses that should qualify for restricted gun access: Schizophrenia, antisocial and borderline personality disorders, major depression and bipolar disorder? Perhaps substance abuse/addiction as well?

That is a lot easier. However, the problem is they aren't specifying what exact mental health issues. They are just saying mental health which is a broad term. That's what I am getting at. There are violent behaviors that, yes should make it impossible for someone with them to own.

[Voltaire 5,491]

Doesn't anyone think that congress should have term limits? They can literally stay in as long as they want. Retire and make over $100K a year for just serving one term. If you ask me the major change in the US needs to start with congress.

No, no. The worst of them stay in Washington, change to another office down the street, and earn a heck of a lot more than what they were making in Congress (far exceeding $100K) by lobbying their former colleagues.

[MTSkiBum 1,626]

Instead let's list the diagnoses that should qualify for restricted gun access: Schizophrenia, antisocial and borderline personality disorders, major depression and bipolar disorder? Perhaps substance abuse/addiction as well?

 

That is going too far, friends of mine were potheads in their twenties and they enjoyed hunting and were at no risk to anyone.

[MTSkiBum 1,626]

It's a difficult issue as I've long been a champion for destigmatizing mental health disorders. We don't look down on folks who are injured to other parts of the body or organs, but mental health is looked down upon, people are scared to talk about it and thus many are left untreated.

 

Any law that further stigmatizes them isn't good. Yet it''s common sense to try and keep guns out of the hand of those who are truly troubled. Its a hard balance for me.

 

 

So it's already unlawful for mentally ill people to buy guns, at least those who have been publicly identified by a court or institution. The question is, is that enough and how can we do more in a thoughtful...and lawful way.

 

I agree 100% with this post. Yes it would be good to keep the guns out of some people's hands, but if the law were too restrictive it would have the opposite effect. What person that grew up in Wyoming would ever go see a mental health expert because it could mean loss of hunting privileges.

 

What do you do, I sure as hell do not have an answer.

[Djgb13 2,339]

 

That is going too far, friends of mine were potheads in their twenties and they enjoyed hunting and were at no risk to anyone.

And that's the problem. When they say "mental health issues" there is a broad spectrum of them and the varying degrees at which someone has them. Someone can be depressed and thought about suicide at one point in their life but could be doing extremely well for themselves. So should they be excluded from buying a gun? Same for substance abuse. They could have quit but had seen mental health for years. Would they still be unable to buy a gun? Most people don't want that info getting out and the fact that they are trying to make a push for this is opening a can of worms that will lead to a lot of lawsuits.

[Djgb13 2,339]

 

I agree 100% with this post. Yes it would be good to keep the guns out of some people's hands, but if the law were too restrictive it would have the opposite effect. What person that grew up in Wyoming would ever go see a mental health expert because it could mean loss of hunting privileges.

 

What do you do, I sure as hell do not have an answer.

Mental health background checks are good in theory. They just will never work

[Mungwater 601]

 

I agree 100% with this post. Yes it would be good to keep the guns out of some people's hands, but if the law were too restrictive it would have the opposite effect. What person that grew up in Wyoming would ever go see a mental health expert because it could mean loss of hunting privileges.

 

What do you do, I sure as hell do not have an answer.

Nobody has an answer, that's it was an executive order, when everyone hates it, everyone can just shrug their shoulders. Too toxic of a topic to out your hands on, let the guy who's leaving do it.

 

Everyone agrees that something should be done, it's just there is no middle ground.

 

That's what I loved about today, the fake tears, the no online purchases.. it was just a show

[gocolts 300]

 

That's what I loved about today, the fake tears, the no online purchases.. it was just a show

 

Especially when you consider Obama actually armed the Mexican drug cartels in some lame attempt to get folks on board with his hatred of the 2nd amendment.

[Djgb13 2,339]

Nobody has an answer, that's it was an executive order, when everyone hates it, everyone can just shrug their shoulders. Too toxic of a topic to out your hands on, let the guy who's leaving do it.

 

Everyone agrees that something should be done, it's just there is no middle ground.

 

That's what I loved about today, the fake tears, the no online purchases.. it was just a show

That's what got me. Those fake tears. Like seriously. You're the president. Act like a focking man instead of a drama queen fake crying to get sympathy

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Yeah the crying was pretty dumb

[Djgb13 2,339]

Yeah the crying was pretty dumb

I don't want a president who fake cries during a press conference for sympathy and to make people think he is heartbroken when he isn't. That's a and how a freakin woman acts